DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack and T.J. Ward

FWIW....

4. T.J. Ward, Cleveland Browns, safety: Ward almost made the "no brainer" category, but it's worth remembering that this is a new Browns regime running the show. They could have different ideas on how to build a defense. One possibility is that coach Mike Pettine could have some interest in his old Bills safety Jairus Byrd. Then again ...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...ll-32-nfl-teams

i don't understand why we just can't have both here. not only do we have the money, they play different positions.

I'll pass on twitter.. Thanks

I think you see that alot daman... players following coaches via FA or coaches wanting that verteran to help teach his scheme.

I think some are touting Grossman as a #3 for similiar reasons.

That said, as much as I like TJ, if we could land Byrd for same money I would be ll over it.

J/c....

1. Rappaport n other Bozo's they just are speculating just like us fans do...that's all.

2. Isn't Byrd FS and Ward is a SS the FS usually make the calls.

3. Ytown...its not about the 44 mil this year. Contracts is all about Precedents...You will never get Mack to sign a long term contract he will take the Over payment this year and if we franchise again next year he gets a 20% raise probably making him the highest paid OLman in the NFL.

How do you negotiate with anyone else - I'm telling you agents will start off with well if you think Mack is worth $$$ then my client is worth X amount. You don't do irrational things just cause this year you have the money...the repercussions are a lot long term than just this season.

4. In lieu of 3...I don't think we even consider the Franchise Tag on Mack...now not sure about the transition tag??? so we get to match any contract he signs??? Don't know the new CBA on that tag. If we end up tagging somebody it might be Ward but I got a feeling that we will sign him long term especially if we sign Haden. Mack definitely will want to see what offers he get - hopefully he will let us match.

jmho

yes Byrd and Ward do play different positons, still if given the choice of the two I would take Byrd.

Do not see the team able to sign both and give big $ to Haden.

Source: Browns trying to retain free agent center Alex Mack

New Browns GM Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine have decided to pursue re-signing Pro Bowl center Alex Mack, according to a source familiar with their decision.

The team also is making an effort to re-sign Pro Bowl safety T.J. Ward.

Mack and Ward are the marquee names of the Browns’ potential free agents. They are the top priorities because the club has a two-week window, beginning today, to decide whether to apply the franchise or transition designation to them to keep the players from leaving when the free agency signing period begins on March 11.

If the Browns can’t arrive at a new deal for Mack or Ward, they could tag either player – but not both – as their franchise player. The cost of the franchise tag is derived from the average of the top five salary cap numbers at each position.

In the case of Mack, that figure is about $11.126 million for a one-year deal because centers and guards are grouped with the more expensive position of tackle in figuring the top five cap numbers.

Ward’s franchise figure would be approximately $8.021 million.

The transition designation is rarely used. The cost is lower, derived by the average of the top 10 salary cap numbers at each position.

Teams have from now until March 3 to apply the franchise or transition tag.

While some teams may apply it today, many wait to use it as a last resort as negotiations with the player continues.

Mack, 28, has never missed an offensive snap in five seasons with the Browns since selected 21st overall in the 2009 draft by former coach Eric Mangini. He was named to the Pro Bowl after the 2013 season and was named a second team All-Pro selection. Mack also made the Pro Bowl following the 2010 season as an injury replacement.

The previous Browns regime attempted to sign Mack to a contract extension prior to the 2013 season, but the talks were suspended by both sides once the regular season began.

Ward, 27, capped off his best of four seasons with the Browns in 2013 by being named an alternate to the Pro Bowl team. He did appear in the game and also was named to the second team All-Pro squad.

Ward was active for all 16 games for only the second time in his four-year career. He had career highs in tackles and sacks and scored two touchdowns, one each on an interception and fumble return.

In the waning days of the 2013 season, both Mack and Ward expressed interest in returning to the Browns. Since then, the Browns changed coaches and general managers and ushered in a whole new philosophy in the direction of the team.

Other Browns eligible for unrestricted free agency beginning March 11 are kicker Billy Cundiff, running back Willis McGahee, guard Shawn Lauvao and offensive lineman Oniel Cousins. Linebacker Craig Robertson is an exclusive rights free agent (less than three years in the league) and can only be free if the Browns don’t tender him a contract.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=28591

In relation to this article, a couple of extra stuff I heard on the radio when Grossi was on ESPNCleveland about an hour ago:

1. Grossi said the source was "high up". Take that for what it is worth.

2. Grossi also said if Banner and Lombardi were around, there was little to no chance Mack would be back. Since the change, the Browns' FO and Mack's agent have agreed to open up communication and come back to the bargaining table.

J/C

I doubt Buffalo lets Byrd walk. I bet Buffalo likely pull a Phil Dawson/Browns and tag him twice in a row if they're unable to lock-up an extension. If they don't do either, then I can see Cleveland be a hot spot for Jarius given the history/connection with Pettine and etc.

It makes all the sense in the world to try to re-sign Mack first, as his tag costs more than Ward's, especially with regards to his worth/demand. Therefor, Mack has more leverage on the Browns than Ward has.

I think it's pretty much a lock for the Browns to just tag Ward, as the tag (8mil) would be about the AVG he would get on a multi year deal anyway, so for the Browns it makes sense to "buy time" and his value can't go up much more, as he's already regarded as one of the best SS in the game. For Ward's camp it makes more sense to take a multi year deal worth 6-8mil annually instead (maybe with incentives). It would be safer in case of injury and it would "buy out" the tag possibility.

Mack, otoh, has position on our FO. His agent can dictate the negotiations because his 11mil tag is a lot more than the top C AVG and his open market value.

I'd call it a "steal" if we can get both for 15mil/year, give or less 1-2 mil.

The FA has been strange last season. Cap numbers going up, but we've seen less AVG/decent starters get overpaid last FA. I think the new CBA favors only the elite talent and the contracts for the rest actually goes down. We will see, but I think team's have realized that it's stupid to overpay for a player just to pretty much being forced to release him 2-3 years later due to prohibitive cap figures. That's why some guy's like DQ who re-upped their contract earlier look smarter (and are richer) than some guys who waited to strike gold in FA and had to take much less. That's why so many one year contracts were signed last offseason. Market's changing. Not sure what the exact dynamics behind it look like, but seems like all 32 teams are playing to it...

This whole Byrd for Ward talk makes no sense whatsoever. The outcome of that would be to create a void at a position of strength, SS. While adding a high price FA at a position that is adequately manned by FS, Gibson. All while limiting the team's ability to address more vital needs in FA like RB and OG.

Maybe people want to move Gipson over to SS (I mean it isn't like he hit like a girl, he's laid some thumpers and if you don't believe me, watch last season all the defensive snaps) and use Byrd to cover the field as free safety.

Either or, I think Gipson can play both slots. Gipson is also about five lbs heavier than TJ being listed at 205lbs, TJ at 200lbs.

With all that said, I am also beyond content with keeping our safety duo the same with TJ and Gipson.

Yeah I don't understand the either or thing.

But I don't understand the we cant do both thing. Like we got certain UNITS on a budget. Getting a Pro-Bowl FA in his prime who knows our HC/DC. Along with a Pro-Bowler of our own working on his 2nd contract. If the "UNIT" becomes too high in price down the road...then you cut one or re-work the contract...you know how teams with good players usually do. More than likely we might have to cut or re-work Krugers contract???

Quote:

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It makes all the sense in the world to try to re-sign Mack first, as his tag costs more than Ward's, especially with regards to his worth/demand. Therefor, Mack has more leverage on the Browns than Ward has.

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Agreed. And adding to that, now that we have Shanahan's zone blocking, Mack become even more of an asset then perhaps before.

I also agree that Ward will be here one way or the other. Either a long term deal or the tag. Man, I'd like to have Ward, Byrd, Haden, and a FA #2CB, Skine at the nickel as our secondary....

....Address ILB #2 in the draft, keep DQ but restructure, keep everything else in tact for the most part and we have a legit defense.....again, getting ahead of things.

Depending on how they are able to piece everything together I am not opposed to acquiring Byrd. My point is there are other more pressing needs that could and may be solved in FA. If adding Byrd while not hurting the secondary as a whole can be done of course, I'm all for that!

j/c

Two names that have gotten lost in the Depth Chart: Bademosi FS, Poyer SS, both backups. Bademosi is a player; Poyer, I haven't seen much of him at all. These two guys could impact whether or not we try to keep Ward...

Unless Ward is willing to take a lighter number than we all expect I would rather tag him. He hasn't been consistent or healthy enough to earn the top dollar over many years. I'd like to go all in on Byrd longterm, Franchise TJ and see how it plays out.

They have a history so if they feed off each other I have no problem paying 15 mil a season for the next 5 years for the best safety duo in the NFL. If Ward takes a backseat to Byrd I'd like to see a more balanced safety brought in. Ward absolutely has value but he does limit what a defense can do even if what he can do is at an elite level.

We won't have a big QB contract for a minimum of 3 years so we can use those years to bring in talent. This year is key for the long term FAs. It's really the last year we can with all of the young talent we have to resign in the upcoming years.

No, Byrd is a grade a coverage/playmaker FS.

I'm glad you posted this CHS.

It seems as though many posters are under the mistaken assumption that they play the same positions/roles.

I would LOVE to see them both in our backfield. They'd be perhaps the best safety combo in the league.

Don't see us spending upward of $25 mil on 2 safeties and one corner

Just a question ......

I don't really remember Buffalo's defense from last year. I think that I really only watched them in their game against us.

Do they play a traditional strong/free safety, or more of a left/right safety? Did they play mainly man, or mainly zone cover?

jc:

Here is an outside perspective on TJ Ward from the Philadelphia news outlet. I'd recommend clicking on the link to read the article as it does provide some pictures.

Personally, I think this is a pretty good take on him:

- One of the best, if not the top safety, against the run.
- Surprisingly decent in coverage (I've seen this more and more from writers/analysts).
- Concerns still linger about missed tackles.
- Isn't known for turnover ability.

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All-22 Free Agent Profile: T.J. Ward

T.J. Ward is exactly the kind of player the Browns should be looking to keep in Cleveland.

With the franchise having once again undergone major changes at the top, Ward is a homegrown talent (drafted in the second round of 2010) who has started 30 of 32 games the last two seasons and earned a Pro Bowl nod in 2013.

The Browns have the franchise tag in their back pocket, but with new decision-makers leading the charge, the possibility exists that Ward hits the open market.

Considering the team in Philadelphia is in dire need of safety help, we went to the All-22 to get a better idea of what Ward brings to the table.

***

Ward’s name has been grouped with Jairus Byrd quite a bit in these parts since the season ended. They are the two top free agent safeties, and both played their college ball at Oregon. Ward was with the Ducks from 2005 to 2009 and played for head coach Chip Kelly as a senior.

But the thing about safeties is they come in different shapes, sizes and skill sets. Byrd and Ward are two of the better ones in the game, but their styles couldn’t be any more different.

We covered Byrd last week. The Bills’ safety is a true ballhawk who patrols the deep middle of the field and is a master at creating turnovers. That’s not Ward’s game at all.

Instead, his greatest strength is playing in the box and consistently making stops against the run. According to Pro Football Focus, Ward played in the box 65.7 percent of the time on run plays in 2013. That was the seventh-highest percentage in the league among safeties.

Here’s an example of Ward at his best. First take a look at where he’s lined up.

Because he’s so good against the run, at times it felt like the Browns had another linebacker on the field.

On this handoff to Reggie Bush, Ward’s teammates do an excellent job of occupying blockers, allowing him to attack freely.

Ward is really good at diagnosing run plays and getting to the ball-carrier. You can see he’s on the move and headed towards Bush before the ball is even in the running back’s gut.

And the most important part is finishing. If Ward doesn’t make a play here, Bush can cut it back. But that doesn’t happen. Instead, it’s a 1-yard loss.

Ward had 112 tackles last season, third-most among safeties. His nine tackles for loss (per STATS, Inc.) were tops on the team and second among safeties behind only Kansas City’s Eric Berry.

At 5-10, 200 pounds, Ward is not the biggest safety in the league. But his strength shows on the field, and he plays bigger than he is.

Here’s another play from that Lions game. This time, he has to deal with an offensive lineman at the line of scrimmage.

Here, it looks like the offensive lineman has him, and Bush will have a big running lane.

Ward gets knocked back, but still manages to get to the ball-carrier and makes the stop after just a 2-yard run.

Again, when thinking about what he does best, there’s no doubt it’s play in the box and stop the run. That is Ward’s elite skill.

***

As we know by now, safeties have to be versatile. And being able to cover is a huge part of the job. In the games I watched, Ward was very rarely used as a single-high, center fielder-type safety. When he played back, it was often in two-deep looks.

But where he performed better than I anticipated was in man coverage – specifically on tight ends.

I took a look at the Browns’ Week 14 game against the New England Patriots. In that game, Ward hit Rob Gronkowski low in the third quarter and ended the tight end’s season. But before that play, Ward was used in man coverage against Gronkowski quite a bit.

By my count, he covered Gronkowski six times and did not give up a catch, although there was one 10-yard pass interference penalty.

Early on in that game, Ward lined up out wide against Gronkowski one-on-one.

Gronkowski runs a short comeback route, and Ward is playing off coverage. Initially it looks like an easy completion.

But Ward does an excellent job of closing on the ball and ends up forcing the incompletion.

Ward is an aggressive, physical player who seeks out contact. Keep in mind he was giving up roughly eight inches and 64 pounds on this play.

***

What are the concerns with Ward? Well, the big one as I mentioned above is he might not be available. The Browns could use the franchise tag or reward him with a long-term extension. If Ward does hit free agency, he’ll likely find a favorable market considering he’s only 27 years old.

If a team wants a pure ballhawk-type safety, that’s not really Ward. Opportunities have to be taken into account, but he had a combined eight interceptions/passes defensed last year. That ranked 31st in the NFL among safeties, per STATS, Inc.

There are also some inconsistencies in his tackling. Most of the time he does a good job, but there were several occasions where Ward didn’t finish. Pro Football Focus had him down for 13 missed tackles, which was tied for 15th among safeties.

Overall, he provides versatility with the ability to play the run at an extremely high level and also match up with tight ends.

If the Eagles somehow landed Ward, he’d immediately be their best safety since Brian Dawkins.

We’ll find out in the coming weeks if they get the chance to to even explore this option.

Edit: here is the link

http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2014/02/17/22-free-agent-profile-t-j-ward/

That's an interesting perspective. Pretty much spot on. Though I do think Ward would have more trouble if asked to cover a more Streamline TE.

If we lose Ward I'ma be pissed..

That was a great article on Ward.

My personal feelings on him are he's a part of the solution, not the problem - even taking into account his weaknesses. No player is perfect.

Would love to see him paired with Byrd. Best of both worlds.