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To further display his strong all-around play, quarterbacks had just a 61.3 rating when throwing his direction.
LOL..........these guys are so clueless. What about when he isn't in the right spot? It's often. What about the fact that, other than the NE game, he really wasn't asked to cover TEs and RBs very often? Nah, that's not important.
Just use stats as an end-all. 
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To further display his strong all-around play, quarterbacks had just a 61.3 rating when throwing his direction.
LOL..........these guys are so clueless. What about when he isn't in the right spot? It's often. What about the fact that, other than the NE game, he really wasn't asked to cover TEs and RBs very often? Nah, that's not important.
Just use stats as an end-all.
I guess I need to ask this although I know you will take it as a personal afront (you shouldn't, it's just a question), but how do you know (100% for sure) where he was supposed to be? How do you know what he was told to do?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I understand the differences in coverages. Obviously, w/a limited view, I can not determine all NFL coverages, because they sometimes mix up coverages and there are subtle differences in some of even numbered coverages, such as a Cover 4 and a Cover 6. And before you answer with: "So, you aren't 100% sure...  " Yes, I already admitted that, but I don't think that weakens my position at all.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 02/22/14 10:18 AM.
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The Browns have made re-signing center Alex Mack their No. 1 priority, according to Ian Rapoport of NFL.com (via Twitter). As our own Rob DiRe observed last week, Mack was unlikely to remain with Cleveland under the team’s old regime. However, after the surprising front office shake-up in Cleveland, new team officials would like to keep Mack in a Browns uniform but would prefer to do so without using the $11MM franchise tag for offensive linemen.
Rapoport’s tweet indicates that the Browns not only want to keep Mack, but that they have put a contract for the talented center at the top of their to-do list.
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The Browns have made re-signing center Alex Mack their No. 1 priority, according to Ian Rapoport of NFL.com (via Twitter). As our own Rob DiRe observed last week, Mack was unlikely to remain with Cleveland under the team’s old regime. However, after the surprising front office shake-up in Cleveland, new team officials would like to keep Mack in a Browns uniform but would prefer to do so without using the $11MM franchise tag for offensive linemen.
Rapoport’s tweet indicates that the Browns not only want to keep Mack, but that they have put a contract for the talented center at the top of their to-do list.
Link
That is good news. For a team that has been talent starved over the past decade I would hate to see an all pro leave via free agency. I would like to see the FO keep both Mack and Ward and then look for a few outside the organization to help.
Hopefully the new front office can lock up Haden before this time next year.
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Agreed. Very good news if it is true.
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What I like about this report, is that unlike with Banner, Farmer seems to have his ducks in a row. I like what Banner did to set this organization up, and some of the moves he made were good. It just seems to me that the mystery and elusiveness Banner displayed with the media was a little maddening. He always came across as snide and trying to display his intelligence instead of reassuring the fans on questions they had.
I've been watching everything I can with Farmer and Pettine, and truly believe that all the deception, for lack of a better word is gone. I get a feeling that Farmer is using Pettine and his staff fully in his evaluations. I also feel he is quite aware of the situation and what needs done. His straight forward way of answering questions is refreshing.
Signing Mack seems to be a priority, as it should. I believe that they will use the same methods to sign Ward. I know this sounds a bit optimistic, but since the shake up, I am slowly gaining confidence in the front office. I think streamling the FO was a great move and will pay off.
We need to start creating an atmosphere of trust between players and FO, so that when the time comes to sign our top players, there is no muck getting in the way. The next month will be very telling.
#gmstrong
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Glad you feel that way. All I know is this is a tremendous draft and Banner did a wonderful job of positioning our team to make hay. We reward that by firing him.
Farmer has really done nothing.
Not saying he will suck, but I don't get all the positive accolades he is receiving.
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Banner also drafted a situational pass rush project at 6 overall. He said he valued him more than the Rams trade offer.
He then drafted an undersized and rather slow Nickel/dime CB at 68th ovr.
He also loaded up the roster with a plethora of developmental type UDFA rooks that normally should have been on a PS.
The Banner Browns had among the most rooks ON the roster, YET they had among the LEAST amount of rook snaps/on-field impact.
Banner led the Browns to a regressing 4-12 record with visibly more talent that he was lucky to inherit for the most part. He swung and missed on the coaching hire to boot and left a PR mess because of it. His consensus plan was a complete mess, lie or joke, pick your poison.
Read my sig. Banner failed his own standards, but yeah, let's Build him a shrine because he made two deals that are on the table any draft to any team that wants to punt picks into next draft.
I'm as skeptic about Farmer as you are, but that doesn't make Banner better, so what's your purpose of your Revisionist history here? Nobody cares that you backed a spineless snake, in fact you have a history for falling for those types, lol.
I wish someday that some team hires Banner as FO and Mangini as HC, so you can go root for them, but they'll probably backstab, eh I mean consensus each other to death over who gets the bigger pencil.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Revisionist history? History of falling for spineless snakes?
You can't make a post to me w/out getting personal.
You might think that Mingo sucks. I do not.
You might not value moving up in a strong draft by trading lower picks in a weak draft, but I do.
You might not value getting a first round pick for TRich, but I do.
You might not value signing Hoyer, but I do.
You might not value getting a pick for Colt, but I do.
You might not value finding guys like Baker and Rainey, but I do.
Of course, he made some bad moves. But, he made many good moves and his handling of the cap kept Philly in contention for years.
Oh, and unlike you..............I won't resort to personal insults to make my point.
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The cap was solidified well before he looked at the contracts. In fact, that allowed him to sign Kruger and Bryant and still have plenty of money left.
Whatever happened to the bottom line? I remember you saying that you expected more wins and you used the W-L as a shutdown argument in any discussion....well, all those moves, non-moves good and bad resulted in a 4-12 season. That's the bottom line. Who's responsible for that?
We know your drill. When you still backed the coaches, it was the players fault. You tuned that narrative down when six Browns made AllPro lists and When Your Boy Banner fired HIS coaches, then it suddenly was their fault. I haven't forgotten about your laughable flip-flopping on Norv within a few weeks. Now that, by consequence of it being a consensus from day one and having left an unstable, chaotic workplace, they fired the FO too, you mourn the guys let go and run around any thread you can find to tell what a genius Banner was and cite the handful of good moves while completely ommitting the multiple negatives.
You're the Fox News of this board....completely "fair and balanced",lol
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Are you speaking for others, DJ?
How about this.........we disagree on things. Or, isn't that enough for you?
Do you really need to appear to be right that bad?
Really? LOL
I liked Banner. You did not. Big deal. Why the need for insults?
You like H and H? How did they do? TRich and Weeden. Brilliant. Shurmur. Brilliant. Jake and Seneca. Brilliant. Hardesty. Brilliant. Marecic Brilliant. Usama Young over Mike Adams. Brilliant.
Do you really think you are the only one who can find negative moves by a regime?
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Are you speaking for others, DJ?
How about this.........we disagree on things. Or, isn't that enough for you?
Do you really need to appear to be right that bad?
Really? LOL
You should stop right there.
I have a feeling you have me on ignore - and that's fine. But if you do, it's because of you, not me. Hopefully, someone will quote this so you can see it.
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Are you speaking for others, DJ?
How about this.........we disagree on things. Or, isn't that enough for you?
Do you really need to appear to be right that bad?
Really? LOL
I liked Banner. You did not. Big deal. Why the need for insults?
You like H and H? How did they do? TRich and Weeden. Brilliant. Shurmur. Brilliant. Jake and Seneca. Brilliant. Hardesty. Brilliant. Marecic Brilliant. Usama Young over Mike Adams. Brilliant.
Do you really think you are the only one who can find negative moves by a regime?
J/C ....... but also responding ..... if that makes sense .........
Heckert made mistakes, no doubt ....... but he also brought us Haden, and Ward, and Cameron, and Gordon. He was here 3 years, and he drafted 4 Pro Bowlers. Benjamin looked like a Pro Bowl return man before he got hurt as well. Sheard, I think, will be a very good pass rusher from the OLB spot. Hughes and Winn showed real potential as, at the very least, rotation players. Skrine player well last year, and Taylor has played well at times. He brought in Bademosi and Gipson. He brought in John Greco, who has been serviceable. That is better than anyone we've had since 1999. He absolutely made mistakes, but he also brought us numerous quality players. I don't think that all of his moves were hits, obviously, but what teams hit 100% of the time? I think that Heckert did a very solid job of rebuilding this roster. His biggest problem was being unable to find a quality starter at QB.
Banner and Lombardi only had 1 year to show what they could do. They traded away players and picks, and had a limited number of 2013 draft picks as a result. The players they brought in have only had one year to show what they can do. I like their 2 major free agents .... Kruger and Bryant, (though I am concerned about Bryant's health) and I think that we have potential hits with Mingo and Armonty Bryant. McFadden was slowed by injuries, (as was Mingo) and really didn't show my much when he got on the field. Slaughter and Gilkey showed nothing at all.
Out of this draft, we really have 2 guys who look like players in Mingo and Bryant, and one huge question mark in McFadden. We'll have to see how they develop to pass final judgement on the Banner/Lombardi regime.
I don't see why either regime either has to such, or be incredible. Both did some good things, and both made mistakes.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Are you speaking for others, DJ?
How about this.........we disagree on things. Or, isn't that enough for you?
Do you really need to appear to be right that bad?
Really? LOL
You should stop right there.
I have a feeling you have me on ignore - and that's fine. But if you do, it's because of you, not me. Hopefully, someone will quote this so you can see it.
Got you covered!
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I liked Heckert, but after having enough time to wait and see how his picks turned out, I think canning him was a fair move. That first round (TRich and Weeden) is a fire-able offense all by itself. It's really too bad, though; because those two picks in that one round will overshadow all of the good that he did (and there's a lot).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Completely agree. Trent and Weeden is how the Holmgren/Heckret regime will be summed up. As you said, two epic failures (although Indy still saying Trent was worth that first pick LOL) at these two players overshadows all else. I personally can't think about about as worthless as two first round talents as Weeden and Trent. Both are and look clueless and lost of their positions come game day. Both all obtain the physical attributes you'd want with respect to their position, but that's about it... selecting Weeden is where they really screwed up though.
All JMO...
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Not stepping into the middle of this with you n DJ but I just wanted to ad this.
Banner did do good things as you listed.
But I think its a fact that he burnt a heck of a lot of Bridges out there with Coaches with GMs??? with Agents. So there is a lot of - (GMs) now we can talk with the Browns again. Agents (Mack) now we will here what the Browns have to offer and negotiate. Wisenhunt and others that got really ticked off at Banner.
In that regard the Good vs. the Bad is over whelming.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I applaud this! Can't run without center well; we intend to pound it some when we want to. Sign the man. Send THAT message soon as it is realistic. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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We reward that by firing him.
Let's use the same argument you kept trumpeting against Heckert, shall we?
8-18
That's our record under Banner, from the day he joined us to the day he left.
<begin_spin_zone>
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We reward that by firing him.
Let's use the same argument you kept trumpeting against Heckert, shall we?
8-18
That's our record under Banner, from the day he joined us to the day he left.
<begin_spin_zone>
I hated Banner as well but you can only really judge him for this season. In that sense, the qb situation was a disaster and we almost lucked out with Hoyer (Lombardi's guy) winning us games. This team could have easily been a 2-14 team if Weeden and Campbell started all year... Think about that.
Imagine how demoralized this team would have been if we never had gotten a spark from Hoyer.
Then again, imagine all the people that would still have a job if Hoyer stayed healthy (Chud, Banner, Lombardi)
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jc Quote:
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The Browns have made re-signing center Alex Mack their No. 1 priority, according to Ian Rapoport of NFL.com (via Twitter). As our own Rob DiRe observed last week, Mack was unlikely to remain with Cleveland under the team’s old regime. However, after the surprising front office shake-up in Cleveland, new team officials would like to keep Mack in a Browns uniform but would prefer to do so without using the $11MM franchise tag for offensive linemen.
Rapoport’s tweet indicates that the Browns not only want to keep Mack, but that they have put a contract for the talented center at the top of their to-do list.
Link
Nothing new on this front that I know of.
Just trying to keep the thread title relevant.
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Let's use the same argument you kept trumpeting against Heckert, shall we?
8-18
That's our record under Banner, from the day he joined us to the day he left.
<begin_spin_zone>
Who is spinning?
His record was 4 and 12. He had nothing to do w/the other games. You cried that H and H didn't get enough time after 3 freaking years, yet it's okay to fire a guy after one.
Spin that.
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You cried that H and H didn't get enough time after 3 freaking years
I did? When?
Pony up with a link to a post from me crying about that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Let's use the same argument you kept trumpeting against Heckert, shall we?
8-18
That's our record under Banner, from the day he joined us to the day he left.
<begin_spin_zone>
Who is spinning?
His record was 4 and 12. He had nothing to do w/the other games. You cried that H and H didn't get enough time after 3 freaking years, yet it's okay to fire a guy after one.
Spin that.
However, and on the other hand ..... you felt that Chud probably got enough time with only one year, and that it was perfectly fine for Banner to fire him.
What's sauce for the goose ........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You're right. I didn't think his firing deserved all the outrage it was receiving. And I never thought Banner fired Chud. I always thought Haslam fired him and I still do.
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I always thought Haslam fired him ...
That is the impression I got as well....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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You're right. I didn't think his firing deserved all the outrage it was receiving. And I never thought Banner fired Chud. I always thought Haslam fired him and I still do.
Given that there were reports that Haslam has 2nd thoughts about firing Chud, gave me the opposite impression ...... one that implied that he was talked into it.
Who knows what happened? We really can't say for certain, either way. You believe it went one way, and I think it went the other, but neither of us has any proof.
I just hope that the changes Haslam made are beneficial to the team and its future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Again, most of you need heroes and villains to make the world a nice, clean, tidy place.
Most of you want to place everything bad that happened on the hands of Banner and Lombardi, while ignoring anything good they accomplished.
That's your right, but I find it to be incredibly short-sighted, especially considering all the Insider Reports that were out that stated how infuriated Haslam was at our late season collapse.
Combine that w/how uncomfortable Banner looked at the PC and I think it's pretty evident it was Haslam's call. He is looking like a loose cannon.
But, you guys have hope that the Wicked Witch is dead. Farmer is a hero. He will lead us to the promised land even though he has no collegiate scouting experience. Yep, black and white. Heroes and villains. It's so clear cut.
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seriously question verse.
do you like, alternate regimes? you loved mangini, hated H&h, loved Lombanner, and now seem to be hating on Farmer and pettine.
why can't we be fans and just support whoever is in charge until they screw it up?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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...support whoever is in charge until they screw it up?
Past history tends to lead one in that direction. However, I remain optimistic with the latest version of a FO. Haslam will sit in charge until he can take a back seat in 2015...when Peyton Manning arrives to run the show.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Hated the Mangini hire. His actions changed my mind.
Didn't understand the Holmgren hire. His actions made me hate him. I still can't believe that people defended a guy who was barely there. He was out of state during the freaking season. No big deal. Yet, you guys bash Banner?
Banner and Lombardi? Never loved them. Didn't like the Lombardi hire. Thought Banner was very intelligent. I was willing to give them a chance.
Farmer and Pettine? I like Pettine. Love hard nosed coaches. I believe him when he says he will hold players accountable. We need that. Chud did not offer that. Farmer...........he sounds stupid. Maybe I am wrong. It's too early to make that determination and I am not saying he is stupid.............he just sounds stupid to me when he talks about the importance of QBs and the like. I'll give him a chance.
You have to remember that if most say a guy is a genius, I will point out some flaws to spark debate. If most say a guy is a terrible, I will point out some positives to spark debate. That does NOT mean I support that opinion totally. It's all about intelligent conversation. Unfortunately, that rarely occurs on here.
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How you got all of that out of what I wrote I will never know ....... but OK.  You talk about other people looking for heroes and villains, and then you make Haslam and Farmer the villains ...... and the weird thing is that you don't even seem to see it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i understand. just wanted to get what exactly was going on. some of you guys are pretty confusing sometimes with the support/fry whatever regime happens to win the round of musical chairs.
i can see why you dislike the owner, i guess i really just didn't understand why you disliked Farmer. i got it now.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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You're right. I didn't think his firing deserved all the outrage it was receiving. And I never thought Banner fired Chud. I always thought Haslam fired him and I still do.
Given that there were reports that Haslam has 2nd thoughts about firing Chud, gave me the opposite impression ...... one that implied that he was talked into it.
Who knows what happened? We really can't say for certain, either way. You believe it went one way, and I think it went the other, but neither of us has any proof.
I just hope that the changes Haslam made are beneficial to the team and its future.
I'm not trying to defend Versatile (can't read his posts anyway - and don't want to) but where are these reports about Haslam having regrets (second thoughts are regrets)?
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I'm not trying to defend Versatile (can't read his posts anyway - and don't want to) but where are these reports about Haslam having regrets (second thoughts are regrets)?
There was at least one article that stated this as fact back around the time Banner & Lombardi were canned.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm not trying to defend Versatile (can't read his posts anyway - and don't want to) but where are these reports about Haslam having regrets (second thoughts are regrets)?
There was at least one article that stated this as fact back around the time Banner & Lombardi were canned.
Yep, the articles said that Haslam was disenchanted with the way the whole coach search had gone, and implied that he was sold a bill of goods by either Banner, or Lombardi, or both. In the same article, it said that Haslam actually liked Chud overall. I'm not going to dig them up, but they were posted here on the board, and a simple search of the Plain Dealer site should reveal them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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I'm not trying to defend Versatile (can't read his posts anyway - and don't want to) but where are these reports about Haslam having regrets (second thoughts are regrets)?
There was at least one article that stated this as fact back around the time Banner & Lombardi were canned.
Yep, the articles said that Haslam was disenchanted with the way the whole coach search had gone, and implied that he was sold a bill of goods by either Banner, or Lombardi, or both. In the same article, it said that Haslam actually liked Chud overall. I'm not going to dig them up, but they were posted here on the board, and a simple search of the Plain Dealer site should reveal them.
I did a search and came up with something that said that Haslam 'might have'. Sounds like conjecture and not necessarily factual.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I find a lot of the board tends to shake out that way. Some more rigidly than others, but if someone likes Regime A, it's a safe bet that when Regime A gets fired, that poster will be viewing Regime B with skepticism. And vice versa. And so on.
Often happens with QB's, too.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,999
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,999 |
JC
Now that the combine is completed, I bet we hear some more information about these two guys in the coming days. Especially, Ward where a decision needs to be made on franchising him or not.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack and T.J. Ward
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