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I think Mack is out of the country until the end of February... thought i read that somewhere ... and that he is on hold until..
Not sure where he could go that his agent could not get in touch wth via phone, puter, fax , carrier whatever,... Bora Bora maybe?
And I think he has to be the first dominoe to fall
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Quote:
I think Mack is out of the country until the end of February... thought i read that somewhere ... and that he is on hold until..
Not sure where he could go that his agent could not get in touch wth via phone, puter, fax , carrier whatever,... Bora Bora maybe?
And I think he has to be the first dominoe to fall
I believe he was on a mission of some sort in South America and I don't remember him not coming back until the end of this month. in fact, I thought he was already back..
The issue may not be his agents inability to reach him, it may be his desire NOT to be reached yet,.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think Mack is out of the country until the end of February... thought i read that somewhere ... and that he is on hold until..
Not sure where he could go that his agent could not get in touch wth via phone, puter, fax , carrier whatever,... Bora Bora maybe?
And I think he has to be the first dominoe to fall
I believe he was on a mission of some sort in South America and I don't remember him not coming back until the end of this month. in fact, I thought he was already back..
The issue may not be his agents inability to reach him, it may be his desire NOT to be reached yet,.
winner winner
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think Mack is out of the country until the end of February... thought i read that somewhere ... and that he is on hold until..
Not sure where he could go that his agent could not get in touch wth via phone, puter, fax , carrier whatever,... Bora Bora maybe?
And I think he has to be the first dominoe to fall
I believe he was on a mission of some sort in South America and I don't remember him not coming back until the end of this month. in fact, I thought he was already back..
The issue may not be his agents inability to reach him, it may be his desire NOT to be reached yet,.
winner winner
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+ 1
I doubt we'll extend anyone before March 11, the start of free agency as I would be willing to bet that our free agents will want to test the market actively and so forth. Especially in terms of Alex.
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+ 1
I doubt we'll extend anyone before March 11, the start of free agency as I would be willing to bet that our free agents will want to test the market actively and so forth. Especially in terms of Alex.
Is the 11th the drop dead date? if so, then I agree.. That's tuesday after next.
Plenty of time..
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But the franchise tag deadline is Monday.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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But the franchise tag deadline is Monday.
The 3rd?
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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don't think they will franchise mack anyway. ward maybe but not mack so the third doesn't matter with him.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Yes. At 4pm.
Well, that shortens things up a bit LOL
I suspect they are well on their way to either getting a deal done or deciding to let him walk or franchise him (Mack I mean)
I just want them to keep the good young talent we have.
Having just cut DQ today, I'd sure like them to take some of that money and plow it into Ward and Mack..
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Yes, they probably won't tag Mack. He's too much. Ward is more than a likely candidate....whether to see how he does in this new defense for one year OR to stop him from hitting FA while the Browns work out a long term deal.
Another thing to consider regarding Mack and it relates to what just happened w/ DQ. DQ told MKC that he wants to go where there is more stability. Mack may be thinking the same thing. They have until the 11th to convince him otherwise.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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On the previous page it says 11 million to tag Mack
Really?
He's a center.
11 million?
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On the previous page it says 11 million to tag Mack
Really?
He's a center.
11 million?
all OL are thrown into the same pool. so, LT money is what all OL get for the franchise tag. this is why you will see centers and guards among the best available free agents most years. they are not worth the tag.
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I wonder why they don't do that with corners/safties, fullbacks/ halfbacks,? It really makes no sense to me.
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I wonder why they don't do that with corners/safties, fullbacks/ halfbacks,? It really makes no sense to me.
Ditto and an Insult to the OL players.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I wonder why they don't do that with corners/safties, fullbacks/ halfbacks,? It really makes no sense to me.
Ditto and an Insult to the OL players.
I think OG and Centers have loved it. It may have even been player-pushed. It is easier for them to avoid the tag and they can get paid bigger $$$ (both on the open market and from teams who want them to avoid that marketplace).
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Well Jason Kelce just got a 6yr/$37.5M contract with $13M guaranteed. My guess is Mack's agent will be shooting well North of this figure. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6695/jason-kelce
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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sort of surprised he only got $13mil guaranteed. thought OL was trending upwards on guaranteed money.
anyway, I was thinking Mack would end up between $7-8mil/year and this signing does nothing to deter that thought.
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Well Jason Kelce just got a 6yr/$37.5M contract with $13M guaranteed. My guess is Mack's agent will be shooting well North of this figure.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6695/jason-kelce
Kelce will be paid commensurate with a top-five NFL center, which is appropriate. Still just 26 years old, Kelce is the ideal athletic center for Chip Kelly's uptempo offense.
The 2011 sixth-round draft pick graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 1 center in 2013
I don't know why you think mack is worth a lot more than this guy but I would think he will be looking for about the same?
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Because Mack is a better Center. That's why.
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Better? Not sure about that, but I agree that he will demand and get more simply because of 3 factors:
1. He's been in the league two yeras longer and has proven to be consistently good
2. Leverage: Kelce was still on his rookie-deal and simply re-upped, buying out his last cheap rookie year, that factors probably 1-2mil/year alone.
3. Reputation. Mack was a 1st rounder, been to two ProBowls.
If we can get Mack for 7-8 per year, it'd be a good deal. I suspect it'll take more for the Browns to retain him, more like 9-10. I think the market will give him 7-8mil, but he will be able to leverage the org instability (and gigantic cap situaition, it's SO much that it comes back to bite us in negotiations imho) into 1-2mil more if he wants to...I could very well see him price him out just to get out, similar to what DQ probably did
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Retweeted by 92.3 The Fan Daryl Ruiter ‏@RuiterWrongFAN Per @AlbertBreer franchise tag for S TJ Ward will be $8.433 million; Alex Mack would cost $11.654 million. https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN
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Wow those are some big numbers. Given that I think I would still Tag Mack. I think S is an easier spot to fill with whats available via FA and the draft. Slim pickens at C IMO.
Could we use the transition tag on either. Only gives us right to match with no compensation I think but at least we would have the opportunity to do so.
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The salary cap is now at 133 million. It is going to go up next year with the new TV deal. The league is probably going to add a couple of playoff teams next season adding another playoff game to the bidding. Add in that rookies are paid less than they were in the past....you know, that whole pay for performance deal....and teams have to spend on average I think 90% of the cap figure over a 3-4 year average, then the numbers you think are a good deal are low. The Browns have to start spending money or they will be fined and have to pay the NFLPA.
The whole point of the rookie slotting was to give top veteran players more pay. I'd say Mack is exactly that type of player.
Give him his 10-11 mil and quit worrying about the cap. If you haven't noticed, any time a team like Dallas, NE, Pittsburgh start getting close to the cap, the cap seems to go up by about 10 mil.
After all is said and done, the salary cap is going to be 150 mil in 2-3-4 years. Somebody has got to start getting a share of that money. Quit worrying about the friggen cap. We have to spend the money. If Mack doesn't get a part of it, who should?
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Couldn't agree more. The man has proven his worth as one of our six PB's, played his way through his rookie contract and it's time to be properly compensated. I keep reading about other signings from other teams on their FA's that people have speculated they wanted to have sign here. I'm sure people for other teams are saying that about Mack, we need to end their hopes too.
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There's no reason to be cheap. We won't have to pay a guy 100+ mil anytime soon. No reason to lose a guy because we're greedy asses that don't want to give a guy an extra 1-2 million.
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Exactly.
Nowadays, you have to spend. Before, an owner could just say that they were cheap, and didn't want to pay out a lot in salaries. It's a bad justification, but a justification, nonetheless. That doesn't exist anymore.
I hope that we're making these hard decisions (DQ and Rubin, supposedly) so that we can make sure that guys like Mack and Ward (guys that are entering the prime of their careers and fit these new systems like a glove) can be made to stay here and be happy.
There seemed to be quite a bit more outcry from the players over this last coaching and/or FO overhaul. Losing DQ and possibly other veteran leaders isn't going to help. This FO really needs a couple wins.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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There's no reason to be cheap. We won't have to pay a guy 100+ mil anytime soon. No reason to lose a guy because we're greedy asses that don't want to give a guy an extra 1-2 million.
Oh yes. I'm not saying NOT to sign them, even if we have to Pony up 1-2mil more. Heck, I've been very vocal about spending more in FA since Heckert's last FA and I argued that the cap isn't an argument for Banner as those days are mostly gone. The NFL per the new CBA will come closer to the other Major Sports leagues and there will be less "cap hell".
Cap Management has been totally de-valued, I couldn't agree more. When I argue about cutting an overpriced player like Campbell to save money, I'm always thinking how it could be better spend on some starter on a position of need. To me "wasting" cap money only means we will have less money to sign someone else. It's all about value with me.
That said, I've been beating the drum to re-sign Mack, ward and keep Rubin. Also wanted us to re-structure DQ, but the 9mil were really too Rich. We can sign two FA starters at ILB with that money
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He have a boatload of cap space.. and cleared up even more with losing DQ..
Tag one.. re-sign one.. simple to me.
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We're in unchartered territory ever since the rookie salary cap was implemented. Now we won't have to pay a fortune for having high picks.
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Could we use the transition tag on either. Only gives us right to match with no compensation I think but at least we would have the opportunity to do so.
Or another way of looking at it-- can we tag one and transition the other??? Can we use both of the tags (or if we use one then the other isn't an option????)
I don't like the thought of dropping 11mil on a center..... yikes.
If possible, I'd franchise tag Ward and then transition tag Mack. A team could always load up a poison pill but didn't the league do something to stop a Hutchinson kind of contract from occuring again (when the vikes loaded up the poison pill against the seahawks)
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You can only use one type of tag.
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J/C
IMO, with the cap money we have, I say sign Mack. Good teams keep their good Oline for years. We are building a very good one, don't let go of a top player when you have the means to keep the. This would also go along way of easing tensions with players. Let the players know that if they perform, they will get paid. This would give the FO some needed credibility.
I would sign Ward also. This team has a core, it is time to add some good FAs and tighten up the roster. Use the draft to help build depth.
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I'm pretty much in agreement with what you said. I will say though that when you have the #4, #26 and a high second round pick, you have to add to that core of players in the draft.
Depth is fine in the later rounds, but we have to hit on those early picks to build a team.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I absolutely agree with you. When I said depth, I meant later round guys. The top of our draft is key to any turnaround to happen. Our picks are high and close, impact players must be added. We have good slots to fill the things we need, without over reaching. Qb is the key, and the first three picks are going to set the stage for our draft. Once we see who takes a QB ahead of us, also who doesn't, the chips should fall in place after that.
I don't want any trade up scenarios. We need to use as many of the picks we have as possible. The first three rounds could really help shape the future of this team.
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I agree w all of this.. I want no part of trading up. This is a loaded draft and there are good options in FA. Sign Mack and Ward and sit pat at 4.
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Quote:
I agree w all of this.. I want no part of trading up. This is a loaded draft and there are good options in FA. Sign Mack and Ward and sit pat at 4.
I agree. At least that is what I now think I would do. I guess the only way I trade up is if we are sure we have a franchise QB. I don't know if there is, but i am no football guy. Just a fan with a passion,
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I am not so sure I agree.
We have decent talent on this team. This team needs:
1. a good qb
2. to develop mental toughness
3. depth
4. fill in a few glaring holes, such as RG and ILBer.
I would have no problem using our top two picks in order to trade up and draft Teddy. Problem #1 would be solved. Nothing else matters if we don't solve that problem.
Hopefully, Pettine can help solve problem #2.
I would use FA and the rest of the draft [we have additional picks this year in rounds 3 and 4] to solve problems 3 and 4.
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I would use FA.....................
And i think here is the problem. IF we can't sign our own core guys, then how are we going to attract other talent to come here.
Ward and Mack must be playing hard ball here, nothing sounds close to done. The browns will need to make a choice on which one to tag. WIth all of this money, i sure hope the players give the browns the last chance to match. But if history says anything, once a player hits free agency- they are usually gone.
We are starting to get some talent on this team, something to build around. I just hate to see it leave in freeagency. From a player stand point, i get it- losing isn't fun. But this team is getting closer, but we can't close that gap by making subtractions....
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack and T.J. Ward
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