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I don't think the Bucs have money after Revis and Dashon Goldson.
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I forgot they even had Goldson on their team.....both he and Byrd play FS.
Nevermind.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Both Tom Withers and Tony Grossi think the Browns might not use the tag at all......
...Not sure what to make of that. Either they feel they will be able to re-sign both of them or feel neither is worth the price.
Hmmm.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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i guess i just don't see why the browns might want byrd over ward.
so we are releasing a pro bowler for....signing another pro bowler?
i guess i'm the only one who thinks gibson and ward played pretty well last season. i don't see why we need to get rid of one of our all-pro players just because one MIGHT be slightly better.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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geez, I hope not. The tag is a weapon at the club's disposal. It forces the player to be here for another year and we have the cap room to not worry about the price of it for this upcoming year as well. It also gives us leverage to get that long-term extension signed (you want the bonus, fine, then let's make a deal).
not feeling good about gambling away our leverage. I won't mind if we sign Byrd instead of Ward (they are both very good safeties), but don't get why we wouldn't utilize the tag anyway (and trade TJ --- even a low return trade of a 3rd is an extra asset).
we'll see what we actually do here.
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All Pro
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Quote:
i guess i just don't see why the browns might want byrd over ward.
so we are releasing a pro bowler for....signing another pro bowler?
i guess i'm the only one who thinks gibson and ward played pretty well last season. i don't see why we need to get rid of one of our all-pro players just because one MIGHT be slightly better.
Coach Pettine doesn't play a safety the way Ray Horton did with T.J. Ward. He has them cover sides of the field, so a combination of Jairus Byrd -- a very good player -- and Tashaun Gipson would work.
GO BROWNS!
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I agree, you either re-sign him or tag him, NO MATTER what if you want to add Byrd or not (which is NOT a sure thing, which adds to the stupidity letting Ward walk for nothing).
The good thing about the tag is that it doesn't cost you ANY future money and cap hits. With almost 60mil at our disposal, we just can't be "nice guys" here and let him go for nothing like with DQ, who was overpaid and untradeable because of it.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Quote:
i guess i just don't see why the browns might want byrd over ward.
so we are releasing a pro bowler for....signing another pro bowler?
i guess i'm the only one who thinks gibson and ward played pretty well last season. i don't see why we need to get rid of one of our all-pro players just because one MIGHT be slightly better.
Coach Pettine doesn't play a safety the way Ray Horton did with T.J. Ward. He has them cover sides of the field, so a combination of Jairus Byrd -- a very good player -- and Tashaun Gipson would work.
We essentially had two Strong safeties in the lineup last season. I could absolutely see why they would want to swap Ward for Byrd. I honestly see Gipson/Byrd as an upgrade in the unit.
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A bird in the hand...
It's a tough spot because there is absolutely no guarantee on Byrd or even Ward for that matter. We could end up in a situation where we don't have either in training camp.
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Kind of a goofy article, and I don't bash Grossi the way some do...I mostly like the guy. Early in the piece he says this: Quote:
Free agency is fools-gold for the hapless teams trying to take shortcuts to contention. Any team that signs more than three free agents in a given season is doomed.
Then he goes on to list off 6-7 players or positions we need to sign.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Just to give an example of your point ........
In 1996, the Baltimore Ravens had only 7 picks, but 2 in the 1st round. In the 1st round, they selected Jonathon Ogden and Ray Lewis. Who did they pick in the 2nd, 6th, and 7th rounds? Not one Ravens fan cares. They got 2 Hall of Fame players in that draft.
In 1997 they had 12 picks. Most of those became nobodies. However, they did draft Peter Boulware, Jamie Sharper, Kim Herring, and Jeff Mitchell with 4 of their picks. Does any Ravens fan really care that Jay Graham wasn't much of a RB ...... or that Tyrus McCloud, Steve Lee, Chris Ward, Wally Richardson, Ralph Staten, or Leland Terry really never did anything at all? I'm guessing probably not.
You must get a couple of players from each draft, and 3 or 4 starter to plus level is amazing. You want to hit with your top picks, and get value there. However, if anyone expects the new front office to grab Hall of Fa,ers in the 6th and 7th, they are deluding themselves.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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A bird in the hand...
It's a tough spot because there is absolutely no guarantee on Byrd or even Ward for that matter. We could end up in a situation where we don't have either in training camp.
One thing we also don't know is the status of Jamoris Slaughter. Second, how much better does Leon McFadden becomes his second year? Third round guys usually show up second year.
If Leon makes a big jump, you don't need elite talent at safeties. Browns do need depth, but is it worth a pick in first three rounds or FA investment?
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Thanks. I was thinking in terms of the 77 or 78 draft when we drafted Ozzie and Clay. I don't know who else we drafted that year, but does it even matter?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Exactly
If you get a future HOF does the rest of that draft really matter...? I'm not saying it's okay to blow 6+ picks, but if you got an all time great, you did something right.
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Joe Thomas is a hall of famer. He hasn't had a 6+-win season since his rookie year. It matters. Hitting on your first-round pick should be expected, not applauded IMO.
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It's fine if you don't crap on every other draft class afterwards 
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Quote:
Pit, you may have missed this part:
Quote:
(Do you feel Gipson can move to strong safety if you choose to...): "We don't talk about our guys in terms of 'free' and 'strong.' Our safeties are interchangeable -- I think that's key to our success, to have guys who have the interchangeable skill set. Teams can force safeties to change jobs in any way by some of the things they can do pre-snap. We want guys who can do a little bit of both."
(Do you see Gipson being able to do a little bit of both?): "Uhh, yeah. In studying him so far in the offseason, he's a solid player."
That does NOT sound like TJ Ward.
As you guys well know, I will be fine w/that move. Keep Mack, Give him big money. Sign Byrd. Combine him w/Gipson. Let TJ walk. No problems on my end.
Now, I realize a lot of you will be upset if that goes down. And it may not happen that way. Just saying it is a possibility, especially when analyzing Pettine's comments and my feelings about Ward as a player.
No, I really didn't miss that part. And to me that is the part that may, in the end speak volumes. However, I thought the entire premise of "past tense" was rather silly though.
I'm not as sold on Gipson as many others are. However, his skill set is more the variety of Byrd that TJ's is.
The problem is, on the open market it's anybody's guess if we will land Byrd. My concern is if we lost TJ, miss out on Byrd in the FA market, we end up with Gipson and nothing else.
Now if they intend to simply spend through the nose to get Byrd no matter how much money it takes, then fine. Although as I said, I'm not as sold on Gipson as some, I would understand their thinking.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 43s
Browns are placing the transition tag on center Alex Mack, which will give Cleveland chance to match any offer sheet he would sign.
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Browns are placing the transition tag on center Alex Mack, which will give Cleveland chance to match any offer sheet he would sign. https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter
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#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Given the weird O-Line rules for the Franchise Tag, this is a smart move. Makes sure that someone doesn't get a ridiculous deal on him without us getting the chance to make our own move.
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Official, Brown's cannot get Alex to not test free agency. Evidence to my theory he is craving a new environment/team.
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Awesome. Mack was the priority.
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This is dumb in my opinion. Transition tag number is $10 million. Franchise tag number is $11.5 million. Transition tag offers no compensation if we don't match the offer. We're risking losing him with no compensation over $1.5 million bucks and we have $56 million in free space? The only redeeming quality the transition tag has is that we have the right to match any offer. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...ion-tag-numbers
Last edited by clevesteve; 03/03/14 04:38 PM.
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If we match the offer (which we probably will) the other team would have to compensate us. Basically instead of franchise tagging him and having him walk after one year, we have the chance at either keeping him long term or being compensated.
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Only opinion I can think of it's out of pure respect for Alex, who may have requested the franchise tag NOT be used.
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Quote:
If we match the offer (which we probably will) the other team would have to compensate us. Basically instead of franchise tagging him and having him walk after one year, we have the chance at either keeping him long term or being compensated.
You mean we would trade him to that team, right? Because there is no compensation with the transition tag.
*edit* sorry accidentally typed franchise
Last edited by clevesteve; 03/03/14 04:41 PM.
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Then what exactly did Jimmy Graham get tagged with?
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Steve you're gonna have to explain this to me, but from what I've read is that if we match he HAS to sign with us.
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Steve you're gonna have to explain this to me, but from what I've read is that if we match he HAS to sign with us.
No you're right that we have matching rights for any deal. I guess it's not a bad thing, but if we don't match we don't get anything. Better than just letting him go to FA I guess. Puts us in a position to get trolled like Belichik did with the steelers last year but I don't know... Transition tag just seems toothless to me.
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here is a nice snippet on the difference: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/category/_/name/2014-nfl-franchisetransition-tagQuote:
Non-exclusive franchise tender
Team must agree to pay player for one year at the percentage against the current salary cap of the five highest salaries over the previous five seasons. Players can negotiate with any club, but if the player signs with another club, the tag tendering team will receive two first-round draft choices as compensation.
Exclusive franchise tender
Team must agree to pay player for one year at the average of the five largest current-year salaries at his position through the end of the restricted free-agent signing period. It cannot be lower than the non-exclusive franchise tender. The player is not permitted to negotiate with any other team.
Transition player designation
Team must agree to pay player the cap percentage average of the 10 largest prior-year salaries at his position. The player is permitted to negotiate with any other team and such team is not bound by any compensation in signing a transition player.
More to know
The tendering club has a seven-day waiting period on whether to match for transition or franchise tags. If the franchise tag is used on a player a second time by a team, the base tender goes up to 120 percent of the previous salary calculation.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 03/03/14 04:50 PM.
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My guess is that Mack didn't want to sign a long term deal. If we franchise him he plays out the one year and then leaves. With the transition tag we match a team's entire contract and get him for the entire length of the deal.
I would guess that no team tries to sign Mack and he plays out the one year and tries to become a free agent again next off-season.
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Quote:
My guess is that Mack didn't want to sign a long term deal. If we franchise him he plays out the one year and then leaves. With the transition tag we match a team's entire contract and get him for the entire length of the deal.
I would guess that no team tries to sign Mack and he plays out the one year and tries to become a free agent again next off-season.
OK, that's a good angle I hadn't thought of. Still, it puts another team in the negotiating position for our contract, but I guess the alternative was having to spend a draft pick on a center.
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What does this mean for T.J. Ward? My guess is that he signs with another team. I'm betting we go hard after Jairus Byrd.
If we end up with neither Ward nor Byrd I will be quite upset.
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Can we still negotiate and/or sign Mack & Ward leading up to the 11th or are we blocked to do anything until they hit the market on that day?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
Quote:
Steve you're gonna have to explain this to me, but from what I've read is that if we match he HAS to sign with us.
No you're right that we have matching rights for any deal. I guess it's not a bad thing, but if we don't match we don't get anything. Better than just letting him go to FA I guess. Puts us in a position to get trolled like Belichik did with the steelers last year but I don't know... Transition tag just seems toothless to me.
I think it's letting Alex have the right to get the best offer available and making him stick to his word of letting us match any offer. We're letting other teams dictate his contract. This is important to mention
POISON PILLS NO LONGER EXIST BECAUSE OF THE CBA
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Can we still negotiate and/or sign Mack & Ward leading up to the 11th or are we blocked to do anything until they hit the market on that day?
It'd be silly to use that specific tag if we weren't going to let Mack test free agency. Expect us to focus on negotiations with TJ.
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Only opinion I can think of it's out of pure respect for Alex, who may have requested the franchise tag NOT be used.
Bingo. Players don't like the tag. Sure you get paid for one year but if you have a bad year or you blow your knee out you won't get that big contract next year.
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I am pretty sure we can continue to negotiate. But remember, teams can start meeting with free agents from other teams without signing them on March 8th.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack and T.J. Ward
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