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C- with limited upside.
Seriously, a running game would have helped. People forget that the Browns insulated Kosar with Mack and Byner. No such luck for Weeden, even though it may have only made a marginal difference.
I like Farmer. That is a very smart answer.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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“I want to play football,” Weeden said. “I don't care. I just want to play football and be at a place where it's enjoyable and we can compete and win games. That's really what it's all about.”
Good luck in Canada buddy
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If Farmer is smart, he'll try to negotiate away some of Weeden's guarantees in exchange for an early release.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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1st String
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I like Farmer already.He isn't interested in Weeden one bit,and is going to show him the door.The Browns should never have drafted him to begin with,and the sooner they release him the better off they are. 
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jc
I'd still like to see Tanney in preseason to see if there is anything there. I like Hoyer and hope he starts regardless of the drafted rookie. I'm not opposed to taking two QB either, but I don't want the picks wasted; so if we take two make sure they have something that translates to the NFL. I wanted Weeden, Foles, or Cousins in that order after it was apparent we wouldn't get one of the top two that year. I was happy when we took Weeden, just not where we took him... So really what do I know. lol
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If Farmer is smart, he'll try to negotiate away some of Weeden's guarantees in exchange for an early release.
And if Weeden is as dumb as he play's on the field he will go for it.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If Farmer is smart, he'll try to negotiate away some of Weeden's guarantees in exchange for an early release.
And if Weeden is as dumb as he play's on the field he will go for it.
Not necessarily.
It depends on if he truly believes that he can be a starter in the NFL, or not.
His salary this season is $1.12 million, and is fully guaranteed. His 2015 salary is $1.49 million, with $900K guaranteed.
Let's say that Weeden wants out before camp to try and find a job elsewhere, and the Browns say that they want to keep him in case of an injury. Maybe Weeden waives $400K of each year's guarantee in order to buy an early release, or whatever it takes to pay that guarantee down to league minimum. In that case, maybe another team claims him at NFL minimum guaranteed, or maybe they ait for him to clear waivers, but in either case, both parties get what they want. (and yes, I am assuming that the Browns are done with him)
Face it, the Browns would be well within their rights to keep Weeden until the final cuts of camp, or maybe even through this season as a 3rd string QB, anchored to the bench. If Weeden truly wants out, or, at least early enough to possibly latch on elsewhere, he may have to buy his way out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Weeds believes he is a good starter in the NFL.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Who is just going to turn down 400k when you know you're going to get released before June 1st anyway?
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Who is just going to turn down 400k when you know you're going to get released before June 1st anyway?
Why would he be released before then? There is no advantage for the team to do so. His salary this year is already fully guaranteed. He gets paid if he's here, or playing the 9th hole on opening week. The Browns could keep him as a 4th string QB if they wanted, and it would cost them nothing except a roster spot.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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Still due signing bonus money.
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Still due signing bonus money.
Well, we still have to pay that against the cap anyway.
If we cut Weeden before the new league year begins, (I believe that's the cutoff point) then we would have to accelerate his remaining signing bonus, this year's fully guaranteed salary, and next year's partially guaranteed salary. So it would cost us:
2 years's signing bonus allocation: $2.159 million.
Fully Guaranteed 2014 salary: $1.125 million
Partially guaranteed 2015 salary: $920K.
Thus, if we cut him before the new league year, he would cost us roughly $4.2 million against the cap. That's a pittance given out cap situation, but I still think that we can trade time for salary guarantees.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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but I still think that we can trade time for salary guarantees
If we could trade him based on that alone wed be fine.
The whole part about him not being any good keeps getting in the way.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The whole part about him not being any good keeps getting in the way.
Yeah, having a sucky QB makes things difficult. He's not worth any of the money we've paid him, and will need to pay him if Ray cannot find him a new home. He's like a dried turd in the corner, no one wants to touch it, no one wants to deal with it and it serves virtually no purpose b/c it stinks so bad...
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per rotoworld: 7/24/2012: Signed a four-year, $8.083 million contract. The deal included a $4.318 million signing bonus. Weeden's first three base salaries are fully guaranteed, as is $920,000 of his fourth-year salary. 2014: $1,124,872, 2015: $1,492,308, 2016: Free Agent
So basically, he is still due over $2million guaranteed over the next two seasons. He would be a fool to waive that. I also believe there is no offset language, meaning he would be able to keep both the Browns salary and the salary from the new team. Get paid more because you were a first round pick bad enough to get cut after 2-3 years, go figure (ignoring future contracts of course.)
I still think you make the offer of waiving the gauranteed salary in exchange for an early release. You never know how badly somebody might want out.
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He doesn't seem like a very bright guy, I wouldn't put it past him.
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He is football dumb but I don't think he is dumb dumb, for lack of a better term. Besides his agent would try like heck to talk him out of doing something like that, and rightly so.
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He is football dumb but I don't think he is dumb dumb, for lack of a better term. Besides his agent would try like heck to talk him out of doing something like that, and rightly so.
I dunno, his comments to the media scream to me that he isn't very bright. Every interview I've seen from him, I never got that "Man this kid is sharp" vibe. I get that with Hoyer, not so much with Weeden.
He seems like an emotional guy, comments about the fans, "Don't get hurt", he seems like the kind of guy that might just waive his contract due to being butthurt.
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We'll see. But yeah, some of the stuff he has said to the media is annoying at best, like he doesn't get it. Hoyer definitely gets it. He's the type of guy I would want on my team if I was a football coach. I don't know if that's as the starting QB, QB2, or QB3, but I want him on the team. That's one of the highest compliments I can give to a player.
Last edited by hasugopher; 02/21/14 11:02 AM.
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If Weeden buys his way out he's dumb, but if our FO "eats" 4.2mil of dead money with 2mil going against the cap, they'd be smart to do so? Why pay him and open up a new need you'll have to pay again? That'd be as stupid as Weeden taking a paycut imho. It's not like he represents a backup QB-fan revolt waiting to happen like everyone's fav Hobbit McCoy was, lol
The best thing for BOTH parties is a trade for a 7th. We would get something for taking a lesser hit on the money/cap hit while Weeden still gets his money: about half from the Browns and the rest from the new team. The new team gets a decent no2 QB on the cheap for the next two seasons as they're only on the hook for his base salary. I still think Weeden will become the next Chad Henne. I could see a team like the Chargers or Falcons being interested, similar style of QB as their starter.....and do you know who their backups are?
#gmstrong
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I think the Browns would have to send out a 7th with Weeden in order to get nothing (or a camp body or whatever.) I'm dead serious. That type of trade happens a lot in the NBA but I've never seen it in the NFL and am not even sure if it would be approved by the league office.
Nobody wants to pay a project QB $2million guaranteed in his age 31 season. Then again, I thought pretty much the same thing about McCoy last year and we got a late round pick's worth of value back for him, so I don't know. McCoy is younger anyway.
Honest question: If you were a GM of another team, would you trade a 7th round pick for Weeden right now?
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Honest question: If you were a GM of another team, would you trade a 7th round pick for Weeden right now?
Sure, you either pay a guy like Campbell or Seneca Wallace 1.5-2mil to be your backup (or have Curtis Painter like backups like Chargers and Falcons) and who don't care anymore or you pay 1mil to a guy like Weeden, who at least is still hungry to prove himself and buy into another program. The team that trades for him only has to pick up his base salary, we pay (have paid already) the 1mil from his signing bonus and the new team only is on the hook for 1.1mil he makes in base salary this season.
If a 7th doesn't get it done, probably a conditional 7th. Those trades happen in the NFL. The new team gets a look at him and if they keep him on the 53, they pay a 7th, if not, then not, though I'm not sure how the money side of this shakes out then.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Honest question: If you were a GM of another team, would you trade a 7th round pick for Weeden right now?
Sure, you either pay a guy like Campbell or Seneca Wallace 1.5-2mil to be your backup (or have Curtis Painter like backups like Chargers and Falcons) and who don't care anymore or you pay 1mil to a guy like Weeden, who at least is still hungry to prove himself and buy into another program. The team that trades for him only has to pick up his base salary, we pay (have paid already) the 1mil from his signing bonus and the new team only is on the hook for 1.1mil he makes in base salary this season.
If a 7th doesn't get it done, probably a conditional 7th. Those trades happen in the NFL. The new team gets a look at him and if they keep him on the 53, they pay a 7th, if not, then not, though I'm not sure how the money side of this shakes out then.
A team trading for him takes on the contract. So they'd be on the hook for $2million+ regardless of the parameters of the trade. For that reason, I doubt we even get an offer. Anybody interested is just going to wait until we release him and then sign him outright, certainly with less gauranteed money than he has on his current contract. And if we don't release him, well, let's put it this way: I doubt any GM in the league is chomping at the bit to acquire Brandon Weeden. Time will tell.
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A trade is definitely the absolute best option all around.
As for the money - unless you can get him to waive it (not gonna happen), then we're on the hook for the money one way or another. No way around that.
So, if we can't trade him, then if we can stock the roster with three quarterbacks better than him, we cut him. Period. If we can't do that, then he is still a good 3rd stringer.... and if you can't beat out Weeden as the 3rd stringer, then you don't deserve his spot on the roster, anyway.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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but I still think that we can trade time for salary guarantees
If we could trade him based on that alone wed be fine.
The whole part about him not being any good keeps getting in the way.
I am not saying that we are able to trade him. No one is going to take on those guarantees for themselves.
What I am saying is this ...... the Browns go to Weeden and his agent and say "Look, you want out of Cleveland, and want a chance to compete for a starting job elsewhere. We understand that, and will certainly try to do what we can to accommodate that desire. However, you know as well as we do that your salary guarantees are going to get in the way. If we find a team interested in you, you can negotiate a new contract with them to help that trade along. However, we are not going to cut you just for the sake of cutting you. It does us no good to just release you for your benefit alone. We have to pay your salary anyway, so we might as well keep you as the 3rd string QB. Now, if you are willing to forgo some of your guarantees, we are more than willing to release you immediately, so that you can go to work finding a new team immediately. Why don't you and your agent gauge interest from other teams and let us know how you want to proceed."
Players do renegotiate contracts all the time in order to stay with a team ..... or to find a new job elsewhere. Guarantees can be negotiated as well. Maybe the Browns say "Look, we're willing to split the remaining guarantees with you and let you be on your way immediately." That would have them off the hook for Weeden's 2015 guaranteed salary. I see this as a very likely course of action.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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Honest question: If you were a GM of another team, would you trade a 7th round pick for Weeden right now?
Sure, you either pay a guy like Campbell or Seneca Wallace 1.5-2mil to be your backup (or have Curtis Painter like backups like Chargers and Falcons) and who don't care anymore or you pay 1mil to a guy like Weeden, who at least is still hungry to prove himself and buy into another program. The team that trades for him only has to pick up his base salary, we pay (have paid already) the 1mil from his signing bonus and the new team only is on the hook for 1.1mil he makes in base salary this season.
If a 7th doesn't get it done, probably a conditional 7th. Those trades happen in the NFL. The new team gets a look at him and if they keep him on the 53, they pay a 7th, if not, then not, though I'm not sure how the money side of this shakes out then.
A team trading for him takes on the contract. So they'd be on the hook for $2million+ regardless of the parameters of the trade.
I think that's simply wrong, but I'm not 100% on this myself, so if anyone is sure how that works please tell us.
The way I understand this: Any team that trades for him, owes him his base salary ONLY. The signing bonus, which was over 50% of his entire contract value, was already covered by the Browns and gets on OUR 2014 dead money/cap cost. Same stuff happened with TRich's contract for 2013's cap when we traded him:
See here: http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Trent%20Richardson&Position=RB&Team=Colts
The cap number for TRich and the Colts is "only" 2.25mil. That's his base salary from being the 3rd overall pick. His rookie deal was FULLY guaranteed, that's why the Colts would take on dead money too if the cut him this year. They're on the hook for only 6.7mil of the 20.4mil he signed for. The Browns paid all of the 13.3mil of his signing bonus and it got accelerated
That's the value part people keep forgetting: the TRich trade was as much a NBA-like salary dump off as anything else. We took on the bad money and got a better compensation with the Colts thinking they got a quality RB on the cheap for 3 seasons. The Browns "ate" 3.5mil of his contract on last season's cap and another fat 6.6mil this season. Combined thats an AllPro's salary like Byrd will probably get, it's a lot of money and lost value
#gmstrong
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Weeden wants out of Cleveland!!! LMAO . Sorry bro, join the club, you made us suffer through two seasons of garbage play as well. We can't trade you because of your poor QB skills and pocket presense. Ride the pine here, quit, or better yet, just wait to be released soon.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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I think the smarter move is to draft 2 QB's and let Hoyer be the 1 or 2.
With the challenges that the Browns have had rolling the dice more often improves the chance on landing on the franchise QB ala Romo, Brady and other afterthoughts.
I would not be opposed to this approach. What I would take issue with is taking a QB high in the first round (or in the first round period) that isn't needed for the team to be successful and which could set the team back another few years (like taking Weeden did).
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I think the smarter move is to draft 2 QB's and let Hoyer be the 1 or 2.
With the challenges that the Browns have had rolling the dice more often improves the chance on landing on the franchise QB ala Romo, Brady and other afterthoughts.
I would not be opposed to this approach. What I would take issue with is taking a QB high in the first round (or in the first round period) that isn't needed for the team to be successful and which could set the team back another few years (like taking Weeden did).
I have no issue with it either. Let the best man win...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Weeds believes he is a good starter in the NFL.
And he's delusional. He's not even a good back-up in the NFL. I don't think he'll even make a good starter in the CFL or even an arena league.
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A trade is definitely the absolute best option all around.
I agree.. we get rid of his contract, we get some minimal compensation late round pick, Weeds gets to go to a team that he knows wants him... I just hope he realizes that any team that trades for him or picks him up after he's cut is not viewing him as the starter... he knows that right?
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“I want to play football,” Weeden said. “I don't care. I just want to play football and be at a place where it's enjoyable and we can compete and win games. That's really what it's all about.”
Good luck in Canada buddy
if even
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Weeds believes he is a good starter in the NFL.
...which pretty much makes him "an army of one"...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Weeds believes he is a good starter in the NFL.
And he's delusional. He's not even a good back-up in the NFL. I don't think he'll even make a good starter in the CFL or even an arena league.
How did we come full circle to where I am now defending Brandon Weeden? 
He played good enough this season to warrant backup consideration. You have to remember he is only in his second year, coming from a spread offense. If he could just minimize himself to ONE bonehead play per game, he could have some promise.
He has the size, he has the arm strength. I could see him being a decent backup honestly. I think he's better than say a guy like Seneca Wallace...
Again, I can't believe I am defending him when I was the conductor on the Weeden sucks train.
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Honest question: If you were a GM of another team, would you trade a 7th round pick for Weeden right now?
Sure, you either pay a guy like Campbell or Seneca Wallace 1.5-2mil to be your backup (or have Curtis Painter like backups like Chargers and Falcons) and who don't care anymore or you pay 1mil to a guy like Weeden, who at least is still hungry to prove himself and buy into another program. The team that trades for him only has to pick up his base salary, we pay (have paid already) the 1mil from his signing bonus and the new team only is on the hook for 1.1mil he makes in base salary this season.
If a 7th doesn't get it done, probably a conditional 7th. Those trades happen in the NFL. The new team gets a look at him and if they keep him on the 53, they pay a 7th, if not, then not, though I'm not sure how the money side of this shakes out then.
A team trading for him takes on the contract. So they'd be on the hook for $2million+ regardless of the parameters of the trade.
I think that's simply wrong, but I'm not 100% on this myself, so if anyone is sure how that works please tell us.
The way I understand this: Any team that trades for him, owes him his base salary ONLY. The signing bonus, which was over 50% of his entire contract value, was already covered by the Browns and gets on OUR 2014 dead money/cap cost. Same stuff happened with TRich's contract for 2013's cap when we traded him:
See here: http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Trent%20Richardson&Position=RB&Team=Colts
The cap number for TRich and the Colts is "only" 2.25mil. That's his base salary from being the 3rd overall pick. His rookie deal was FULLY guaranteed, that's why the Colts would take on dead money too if the cut him this year. They're on the hook for only 6.7mil of the 20.4mil he signed for. The Browns paid all of the 13.3mil of his signing bonus and it got accelerated
That's the value part people keep forgetting: the TRich trade was as much a NBA-like salary dump off as anything else. We took on the bad money and got a better compensation with the Colts thinking they got a quality RB on the cheap for 3 seasons. The Browns "ate" 3.5mil of his contract on last season's cap and another fat 6.6mil this season. Combined thats an AllPro's salary like Byrd will probably get, it's a lot of money and lost value
It's not wrong. Weeden is owed over $2million in guaranteed base salaries the next two seasons; the team that trades for him is on the hook for that money.
Yes I know that good backup QBs make more than ~$1million/year, and here is the part where we are just going to have to agree to disagree: Weeden hasn't shown that he is a good backup QB. Let's put it this way, when Campbell was in the game, I thought the Browns at least had a chance. Weeden in the game was just about the most deflating thing I've ever witnessed as a sports fan.
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Over two seasons? Sure. That's still cheap. Any vet QB getting their respective minimum will make close to 2mil over two seasons. That's cheap.
As for Weeden being a poor backup. In his only backup action he chucked his way past Pettine's D like butter. Still can't believe he gets ZERO credit for that TNG. He took over down 0-10 and brought back the team TWICE.
I'm sure he's viewed more favorably around the league than among Browns fans, who flat out hate him (some did so from day 1). He's proven to not be starter material, but he's better than most backups. Me thinks many of you don't know who some backups around the league ARE...I should list them, lol
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
You think we won that game because Weeden came in or EJ Emanuel goes out?
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
You think we won that game because Weeden came in or EJ Emanuel goes out?
I won't sit here and let you disparage the great Jeff Tuel.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
If I were a GM of another team, at most I would be looking a Weeden as a camp guy that you take zero risk on and if he sticks as a backup, great. No way I'm locking myself into it and to give up a draft pick, any draft pick, to do so would be stupid.
And every starting QB has good games lol. Brady Quinn had a monster game. Matt Flynn had a monster game. Judge the whole body of work. The fact that we're even having this conversation speaks volumes.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I'm not downing on Jeff Tuel. He won us more games than Weeden this year 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Weeden wants out of Cleveland
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