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Legend
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Legend
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I don't believe losing Banner was a good thing. I will support the new guy, but I'm not going to be stupid about this and admit to that.
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Legend
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Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi ended on bad terms with each other and Browns owner Jimmy Haslam wiped out both CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns CEO Joe Banner and his top lieutenant Mike Lombardi ended on bad terms with each other, and their discord led to Jimmy Haslam firing both, league sources told cleveland.com. Banner and Lombardi clashed over a number of things, but the disconnect came to a head during the tumultuous 25-day coaching search. By the end of it, Banner wanted to fire his embattled GM, and Lombardi knew it. If he didn't know, he missed the writing on the wall. But what Banner didn't know -- and should have -- was that Haslam had also grown weary of him during the search -- portrayed as dysfunctional in the local and national media -- and was gearing up to fire him. The owner and the CEO didn't see eye-to-eye over a number of candidates, and Haslam came to feel that Banner was the reason some didn't want to interview for -- or accept -- his coaching job. Banner took a gamble last year on Lombardi -- who's reportedly set to join Bill Belichick's staff in New England -- despite a thunderous backlash from Cleveland fans and media, and it ultimately contributed to his downfall. In the latter stages of the coaching search, Lombardi's good friend Belichick was calling to advise Haslam on candidates, including encouraging him to interview fired Bucs coach Greg Schiano, sources confirmed for cleveland.com. Sports Illustrated's Peter King first reported that Banner was miffed about the last-minute Schiano interview, which took place a day or two after their second interview with Mike Pettine at the Senior Bowl in late January. Against Banner's wishes, the Browns left the Senior Bowl and flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, who was coming off a scandal-rocked 4-12 season, one marred by a MRSA outbreak in the locker room and a public battle between the team and quarterback Josh Freeman. At the time, the interview looked like a favor for a coach down on his luck, but it was more than that. Haslam listened to the recommendations of Belichick and Ohio State coach Urban Meyer, and overrode his CEO's opinion. Others in the organization were also on board with talking to Schiano. Haslam and Banner were also at odds over Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, according to insiders. McDaniels -- a longtime Lombardi favorite -- supposedly became Haslam's top choice, but Banner had his reservations. McDaniels had been fired by the Broncos after a controversial reign in which he alienated some players and lost 17 of his last 22 games. He was also fired in large part because of a videotaping scandal. But Lombardi strongly felt McDaniels received a raw deal in Denver, and would excel in the right situation chance, much like his pal Belichick did in New England. Shortly after the Browns interviewed McDaniels, a Canton native, he pulled his name out of the search, saying he was happy where he was. After the media portrayed McDaniels' withdrawal as another sign that no one wanted the "radioactive'' Browns job, sources told cleveland.com and other local reporters that McDaniels pulled his name out because he was told he wasn't the frontrunner. The "frontrunner'' retort didn't sit well with some candidates or potential candidates, a source said. But a McDaniels hire might've also gone over like a lead balloon. During the interview, NFL Network's Mike Silver wrote, “ ... when I read reports that former Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels might be the leading candidate to fill the Cleveland Browns opening, I feel like someone has just taken a tire iron to my skull.” Within about 24 hours after McDaniels pulled out of the search, he called to get back in, sources close to the situation said. This was contrary to a report on NFL Network that the Browns called McDaniels and tried to lure him back into the mix. Regardless, he remained in the running right up until the end, when the Browns hired Pettine on Jan. 23rd. In fact, he received the support and recommendation of Belichick right up until the 11th hour. McDaniels was likely the "mystery finalist'' the Browns referred to on the day Pettine was hired, although they later said it was Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, who also hadn't yet been eliminated until Pettine agreed to terms. The Ken Whisenhunt candidacy also presented problems. Sources said that Whisenhunt, who took the Titans head job, would've considered coming to Cleveland but had concerns over the management team in place, specifically Banner. The Browns had interviewed Whisenhunt for their head-coaching vacancy last year, but passed him over because they were more impressed with the coordinators Rob Chudzinski could produce -- Norv Turner and Ray Horton, sources told cleveland.com at the time. Whisenhunt also interviewed with Buffalo in 2013, but the job went to Doug Marrone. SI's King reported Wednesday that when Whisenhunt asked the Browns in his interview this year why they didn't hire him in 2013, Banner told him it was because they wanted to see more of a “a championship coaching staff” Whisenhunt, one NFL source told King, was miffed that Banner, who had never coached, would criticize his choice of assistants. “Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice, King wrote. Sources told cleveland.com it's true Whisenhunt was told he didn't get the job last year because of his staff, but that he never called Banner out over it during this year's interview or had an edge in his voice. One said there was never an awkward moment during the Whisenhunt meeting and that he was the consummate professional. The discussion was frank and open, but Whisenhunt was non-confrontational. "Why would someone who was trying to land a job go off on one of the interviewers?'' said one source. Still, the disconnect amongst the power-brokers was evident by then, and the groundwork had been laid for the end of the short Banner-Lombardi regime. Banner had the job for 16 months, and Lombardi, 13 months -- although he was involved behind the scenes from the moment Haslam agreed to purchase the team 18 months ago. Sources also said that former Penn State coach Bill O'Brien, who also remains close to his former boss Belichick, wasn't interested in interviewing with the Browns this year because of the management team in place. He talked to Browns last year but opted to remain at Penn State. This year, he took the Texans head-coaching job without interviewing with the Browns. By the day Pettine was hired, the signs were strong that Lombardi was gone, and that Haslam and Banner weren't in lockstep. While Lombardi wasn't even present at introductory press conference, Farmer was hailed that day by Haslam and Banner as "a rising star'' in the organization -- the first sign that Lombardi was on his way out. That same day, Banner also lamented the fact that he didn't get a chance to meet with the Super Bowl-bound Quinn a second time, calling it "the toughest decision'' of the interview process. He went on to praise Quinn, predicting he'd be an excellent head coach some day. It almost sounded like buyer's remorse -- but several sources said that wasn't true, that everyone in the organization was completely on board with Pettine and blown away by his interviews. A week later at the Super Bowl, Banner continued to praise Farmer in an interview with cleveland.com regarding the assistant GM's decision to turn down the Dolphins' GM job. "I'm not surprised that other people are recognizing it,'' Banner said. "He's extremely hard-working, smart, totally trustworthy loyal and a great evaluator. He understands the elements of character, personality and drive (in prospects) and he integrates them into the grading of what you see on the film.'' Meanwhile, Banner barely mentioned Lombardi and kept his media-savvy GM out of the public eye all season, describing him in March as a "lightning rod for criticism.'' It was clear that Lombardi had fallen out of favor with Banner, and that the top of the organization was splintered. Still, two sources said Banner was "flabbergasted'' by his firing and never saw it coming. They said Banner thought Haslam was happy with Banner's first 16 months, during which he attracted excellent top-level executives such as President Alec Scheiner and general counsel Sashi Brown and had overhauled the entire operation. Insiders also said Haslam may have had second thoughts about firing coach Rob Chudzinski, even though he was completely on board with it at the time. In the end, the Browns felt they landed an excellent head coach in Pettine after a thorough process in which they cast a wide net. Several sources that perceptions that candidates didn't want their job were inaccurate, and that many excellent prospects called to be interviewed and weren't considered. The only candidate on their list that actually declined to interview was Broncos coordinator Adam Gase, who told them he wanted to focus on the Super Bowl and was happy with his current job. In the end, Banner took a chance on Lombardi, and when he set out to fire him, they both went down. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/joe_banner_and_mike_lombardi_e.html
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Legend
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It sounds to me that Lombardi and Haslam are the idiots and that Banner is the only one who had a clue.
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Legend
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I know you liked Banner because you liked having a smart guy running the show. On the surface of that statement alone I would agree with you. However, apparently those smarts came with tradeoffs. The environment Banner created was not good. There was a black cloud hanging over Berea. There are multiple articles documenting this....including the really damning ones on his effect on the coaching search. He hired his buddy as GM ....the same guy who was ...as reported by Grossi on the radio yesterday ...beginning to undermine Banner (how's that for loyalty btw?). Banner was in such a rush to prove how smart he was, I think that clouded some of the decisions being made.
It's great being smart and all, but when you jot down the list of pros and cons for him and stack them up against each other, you hope the pros outweigh the cons. I don't think that's the case with Banner.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
j/c
I'd say I'm THRILLED with this recent embarrassment (and just because I like it and believe it is the right move ... it doesn't mean its not embarrassing) but the lead DA is still around .. are u kidding me with all the excuses folks are throwing around for this guy ....
Banner was "thrust" on him ... *LOL* ... in what world did that happen???? .. has anyone seen the lead DA in action ... NO ONE THRUSTS ANYTHNG ON THAT MAN .... are u kidding me???? ...
PLUS .. how does the TIMELINE WORK ON THAT ONE ... he bought the team in early August ... he hired banner Mid Oct. ... lets see ... that leaves august, sept and half of oct for him to INTERVIEW and find people .... so how was him and banner a MARRIAGE made at nfl headquarters ....
I gotta go .. will be back to blow up more myths and BS being spread about this a-hole we have leading us ...
EVEN THOUGH I LIKE WHAT HE JUST DID I AM STILL BUMMED WE HAVE THIS IDIOT LEADING THINGS .... IMO were SCREWED til he either gets a clue and backs off and gives his FOOTBALL PEOPLE a chance to do there jobs ...... cause based on what we've seen so far only a blind person would have any faith in this guy ...
u know ... I've seen a few say there a lot more positive than they were before the two minion DA's were let go .... I knew I felt better but not positive ... the best way to describe my sentiments ..
I'm less pessimistic that we'll f this off season up as far as personal moves go .. and lets face it .. THIS IS HUGE ... we have a chance to REALLY IMPROVE and be a LEGITE CONTENDER soon with the right moves ...
I have no clue how good farmer and co will be ... but I was POSITIVE we would fail with the DA's leading the talent acquisition this off season ...
Later bro ......
Great post.. love reading your slant on things though I must admit I am new to "Diam Speak"  .
I hope that with these changes he does just what you say.. backs off and lets those in charge make the football decisions, there is nothing wrong with his oversight and his input, but those that know must make the choices.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Legend
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We all have our opinions, but it was Banner who brought in all these guys like Farmer, Scheiner, Jenkins, and Sashi Brown.
He is the one who did not want Schiano and McDaniels. He is the one who did want Quinn. He is the one who got us extra picks in this year's draft.
Wisenhut? I didn't want that stiff here to begin with.
Black cloud? Sounds like speculation. Let me ask you this..........how much interaction do you think there is between the Chief Executive Officer and the players?
You are right. I do respect intelligent men. It was Banner's brilliance that kept Philly a contender all of those years. GMs can draft good talent and coaches can get the most out of that talent, but the team's success is short-lived w/out a guy like Banner.
Oh, and I am not asking you to agree w/me about any of this. It's just how I feel. I am not saying I am right. It's just my opinion. Again, I will support the new guys.
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Legend
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This really does make me believe more and more that people didn't even want to interview here, or those that did didn't even want the job cause Lombardi/Banner, or more so Lombardi.
Bringing Lombardi here was just a mistake since it was first considered and then even more so a mistake when it was carried out. Sounds like Banner really slit his wrist by going the Lombardi route and Haslam didn't want tango with either of them anymore after seeing how they worked together and etc. Who knows what the truth is though really. "Something" happened...
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Legend
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Sounds to me like you want to disregard all the negative things about Banner that are CLEARLY there, whether in this article or the several ones/reports that exist both in Philly and in Cleveland.
I think all three are idiots, they think their smarter than everyone else, and possess the biggest egos I've ever seen running the Cleveland Browns.
It was a cancerous situation in Cleveland in just one year. Who knows, it may continue to be that way based on how Haslem handles this new group and/or what becomes of our talent evaluator's success.
The business approach may take a hit based on what Banner accomplished here and how well Scheiner picks up where Banner left off. I do think Scheiner played a big part in the stadium renovations and fan experience portion, but to what extent, I don't know. I think Banner did a lot of very good things in that department (the Business side) as he was known for doing in Philadelphia.
IMO, it was the football side dramatically hindered by his presence and NO ONE will ever change my mind about that. From everything I gather having a little bit of inside info, the Norv Turner rift and Banner wanting to be managing the offense HAS some true legs to it. He hired an idiot in Lombardi to gather information up to the draft but it was Banner that wanted all control in personnel decisions. It was a concern from the beginning and was ultimately his desired plan. Haslem saying he is "streamlining" the Browns says nothing more than dividing business and football....seeing that he no longer wanted Banner involved in football matter. That is clearly evident to me.
Banner was a problem. A problem in Philly and a problem in Cleveland. Now to be fair, not the only problem but a big one. And still a problem (or Stooge for some) remains in Cleveland....and thats Haslem's approach as an owner. He needs to step back and allow the football people do their thing.
Addition by subtraction by letting those two go as far as I am concerned. Based on organizational structure alone it was not going to work let alone their football approach to it all. There is still a long way to go but at least the organizational structure makes a ton more sense today than it did one year ago. Hopefully, Farmer knows his talent because that's what's gonna change this team-- not stadium renovations, not the fan experience, not a "consensus" in decision making, not a uniform change.
Winning. That's the only thing and it will be accomplished by adding the right guys in the draft and keeping the good ones we have here.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Legend
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Diam...not going to pick stuff apart. Just one thing stuck out for me.
Aug Haslam bought the team and then hired Banner in Oct. Its seems you suggest that he came on the scene in Oct. But in August he was a minority owner in purchasing the Browns. Haslam and Banner were forever linked together from day one. The NFL will do this all the time to assure themselves that a team will be organized with somebody who has knowledge when a new owner is involved (not that a new owner pops up often). It also has been said that Banner did a lot of good in establishing the Organization in structure so that Haslam did need him.
I saw the trouble with Banner being the lack of LEADERSHIP needed to wield the power that he had. Lombardi...I think he was in over his head and depended a lot on Farmer for the correct evaluations. I think he had OPINIONS not fact and was the one who wanted to get rid of Gordon/trade. Banner wanted to micro manage even things ran in detail by the Offense. They didn't support Chud at all.
Haslam was away he knew so much was messed up from when he left to when he had the time to look at the Browns internally. Of course Banner and Lombardi pointed fingers at Chud mostly Banner I presume.
Well that is the way I look at it. Look the bright side of Haslam coming on board to replace Randy was that he was going to be hands on. Not Banner hands on. Banner was around football enough to know...but he didn't really know if you know what I mean.
Now we got our hands on owner. The choice of Pettine for Banner was a Settle Hire and would not probably work hard for Pettine to succeed just like he didn't work hard to have Chud succeed.
Vers....One thing I know. Our Draft Board is completed...there will only be a few tweaks from Combine Interviews and possibly a surprise talent here n there. Nothing should change from the board.
As for the QB it was FARMER sent to evaluate the QBs whatever decision we were/are to make on the QB in the draft was weighing heavily on Farmer regardless who pulled the trigger. Actually we might have duplicate trigger pulling such as our Board in 2013 having McFadden in the 4th round not 3rd. Things like that.
This draft is very important for our franchise I think there is less ITS MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY despite what the guys we hired say. And more cohesiveness with Pettine and Farmer to build this thing. I wish Chud has this make up instead of what he had. I'm sure there would be a big difference. But maybe its part of our destiny to get a kick butt QB cause last year if we had more success we would be picking around 16 not 4.
JMHO...excuse me for once again seeing the bright side of things...lol  I cannot help it.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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No, I have no inside information. Only logic and reason.
Banner, like I did, knew that Weeden sucked eggs. He made several moves to ensure that we were in a good position to secure a qb in this upcoming draft, where there were several potential candidates.
I agree with you that Weeden sucked and everyone knew that. We need a QB and I believe everyone pretty much knows that as well.
What I don't believe is that every move was done with drafting a QB in mind. I believe each move was independent. Considering the production verses investment in TRich, you simply don't pass up the opportunity to trade him for a first rounder. You take that deal 10 out of 10 times.
I don't believe the later picks with Pitt. are enough to have any real value in a trade up scenario for a QB.
I don't believe you can have it both ways. Everyone knows that Banner is a shrude negotiator. He has never been known to sell the farm for anyone. That would be doing a complete 180 from what he is known for.
I also don't believe you can simply do the "insert name here" with the QB position that high in the draft. I have never seen, at least not since the 80's, a draft class where 3 of the top QB's in the draft are worth the #4 overall pick.
I believe that when all the homework is done, Banner would have had a target and a ceiling for what he would have paid. I'm not disagreeing with you that a QB wasn't his top priority. However I believe that will be the top priority for anyone running the Browns.
I don't see that a shrude mind like Banner would have done anything like an RG3 deal to land a QB. And I don't believe he would have simply taken one of the top 3 rated QB's to "take a QB".
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I know you are just being an ass, but at least I answered you. Have a nice day.
Yes I thought it was funny to turn the tables since you did the exact same thing to Attack.
But thanks for answering and at least we now both know where each other stand on the subject.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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I don't believe the later picks with Pitt. are enough to have any real value in a trade up scenario for a QB.
They would have little impact, merely as a throw-in to seal a deal. When you are playing in the top few picks of the draft, you need to bring the weight...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Hall of Famer
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Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi ended on bad terms with each other, and Browns owner Jimmy Haslam wiped out bothBy Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group February 13, 2014 at 9:13 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns CEO Joe Banner and his top lieutenant Mike Lombardi ended on bad terms with each other, and their discord led to Jimmy Haslam firing both, league sources told cleveland.com. Banner and Lombardi clashed over a number of things, but the disconnect came to a head during the tumultuous 25-day coaching search. By the end of it, Banner wanted to fire his embattled GM, and Lombardi knew it. If he didn't know, he missed the writing on the wall. But what Banner didn't know, and should have, was that Haslam had also grown weary of him during the search -- portrayed as dysfunctional in the local and national media -- and was gearing up to fire him. The owner and the CEO didn't see eye-to-eye over a number of candidates, and Haslam came to feel that Banner was the reason some didn't want to interview for -- or accept -- his coaching job. Banner took a gamble last year on Lombardi -- who is reportedly set to join Bill Belichick's staff in New England -- despite a thunderous backlash from Cleveland fans and media, and it ultimately contributed to his downfall. In the latter stages of the coaching search, Lombardi's good friend Belichick was calling to advise Haslam on candidates, including encouraging him to interview fired Bucs coach Greg Schiano, sources confirmed for cleveland.com. Sports Illustrated's Peter King first reported that Banner was miffed about the last-minute Schiano interview, which took place a day or two after their second interview with Mike Pettine at the Senior Bowl in late January. Against Banner's wishes, the Browns left the Senior Bowl and flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, who was coming off a scandal-rocked 4-12 season. The year was marred by a MRSA outbreak in the locker room and a public battle between the team and quarterback Josh Freeman. At the time, the interview looked like a favor for a coach down on his luck, but it was more than that. Haslam listened to the recommendations of Belichick and Ohio State coach Urban Meyer, and overrode his CEO's opinion. Others in the organization were also on board with talking to Schiano. The Josh McDaniels candidacy Haslam and Banner were also at odds over Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, according to insiders. McDaniels -- a longtime Lombardi favorite -- supposedly became Haslam's top choice, but Banner had his reservations. McDaniels had been fired by the Broncos after a controversial reign in which he alienated some players and lost 17 of his last 22 games. He was also fired in large part because of a videotaping scandal. But Lombardi strongly felt McDaniels received a raw deal in Denver, and would excel in the right situation chance, much like his pal Belichick did in New England. Shortly after the Browns interviewed McDaniels, a Canton native, he pulled his name out of the search, saying he was happy where he was. After the media portrayed McDaniels' withdrawal as another sign that no one wanted the "radioactive'' Browns job, sources told cleveland.com and other local reporters that McDaniels pulled his name out because he was told he wasn't the frontrunner. The "frontrunner'' retort didn't sit well with some candidates or potential candidates, a source said. But a McDaniels hire might've also gone over like a lead balloon. During the interview, NFL Network's Mike Silver wrote, “ ... when I read reports that former Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels might be the leading candidate to fill the Cleveland Browns opening, I feel like someone has just taken a tire iron to my skull.” Within about 24 hours after McDaniels pulled out of the search, he called to get back in, sources close to the situation told cleveland.com. This was contrary to a report on NFL Network that the Browns called McDaniels and tried to lure him back into the mix. Regardless, he remained in the running right up until the end, when the Browns hired Pettine on Jan. 23. In fact, he received the support and recommendation of Belichick right up until the 11th hour. McDaniels was likely the "mystery finalist'' the Browns referred to on the day Pettine was hired, although they later said it was Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, who also hadn't yet been eliminated until Pettine agreed to terms. The Ken Whisenhunt candidacy The Ken Whisenhunt candidacy also presented problems. Sources said that Whisenhunt, who took the Titans head job, would've considered coming to Cleveland but had concerns over the management team in place, specifically Banner. The Browns had interviewed Whisenhunt for their head-coaching vacancy last year, but passed him over because they were more impressed with the coordinators Rob Chudzinski could produce -- Norv Turner and Ray Horton, sources told cleveland.com at the time. Whisenhunt also interviewed with Buffalo in 2013, but the job went to Doug Marrone. SI's King reported Wednesday that when Whisenhunt asked the Browns in his interview this year why they didn't hire him in 2013, Banner told him it was because they wanted to see more of a “a championship coaching staff” Whisenhunt, one NFL source told King, was miffed that Banner, who had never coached, would criticize his choice of assistants. “Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice, King wrote. Sources told cleveland.com it's true Whisenhunt was told he didn't get the job last year because of his staff, but that he never called out Banner over it during this year's interview or had an edge in his voice. One source said there was never an awkward moment during the Whisenhunt meeting and that he was the consummate professional. The discussion was frank and open, but Whisenhunt was non-confrontational. "Why would someone who was trying to land a job go off on one of the interviewers?'' said one source. Beginning of the end Still, the disconnect amongst the power-brokers was evident by then, and the groundwork had been laid for the end of the short Banner-Lombardi regime. Banner had the job for 16 months, and Lombardi, 13 months -- although he was involved behind the scenes from the moment Haslam agreed to purchase the team 18 months ago. Sources also said that former Penn State coach Bill O'Brien, who also remains close to his former boss Belichick, wasn't interested in interviewing with the Browns this year because of the management team in place. He talked to Browns last year but opted to remain at Penn State. This year, he took the Texans head-coaching job without interviewing with the Browns. By the day Pettine was hired, the signs were strong that Lombardi was gone, and that Haslam and Banner weren't in lockstep. While Lombardi wasn't even present at introductory press conference, Farmer was hailed that day by Haslam and Banner as "a rising star'' in the organization -- the first sign that Lombardi was on his way out. That same day, Banner also lamented the fact that he didn't get a chance to meet with the Super Bowl-bound Quinn a second time, calling it "the toughest decision'' of the interview process. He went on to praise Quinn, predicting he'd be an excellent head coach some day. It almost sounded like buyer's remorse -- but several sources said that wasn't true, that everyone in the organization was completely on board with Pettine and blown away by his interviews. A week later at the Super Bowl, Banner continued to praise Farmer in an interview with cleveland.com regarding the assistant GM's decision to turn down the Dolphins' GM job. "I'm not surprised that other people are recognizing it,'' Banner said. "He's extremely hard-working, smart, totally trustworthy loyal and a great evaluator. He understands the elements of character, personality and drive (in prospects) and he integrates them into the grading of what you see on the film.'' Meanwhile, Banner barely mentioned Lombardi and kept his media-savvy GM out of the public eye all season, describing him in March as a "lightning rod for criticism.'' It was clear that Lombardi had fallen out of favor with Banner, and that the top of the organization was splintered. Still, two sources said Banner was "flabbergasted'' by his firing and never saw it coming. They said Banner thought Haslam was happy with Banner's first 16 months, during which he attracted excellent top-level executives such as President Alec Scheiner and general counsel Sashi Brown and had overhauled the entire operation. Insiders also said Haslam may have had second thoughts about firing coach Rob Chudzinski, even though he was completely on board with it at the time. In the end, the Browns felt they landed an excellent head coach in Pettine after a thorough process in which they cast a wide net. Several sources said that perceptions candidates didn't want their job were inaccurate, and that many excellent prospects called to be interviewed and weren't considered. The only candidate on their list who actually declined to interview was Broncos coordinator Adam Gase, who told them he wanted to focus on the Super Bowl and was happy with his current job. In the end, Banner took a chance on Lombardi, and when he set out to fire him, they both went down.
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Legend
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Quote:
Nice post.
I've been wondering about this for awhile and I will finally share it. I was watching Banner in the PC where Chud was fired and he did not look like his normal self. He was clearly uncomfortable and looked very unhappy----------even for him--------LOL
I have been wondering if firing Chud was Haslam's move and Banner did not approve of that move. It could have been the beginning of the end.
Then, when Banner opposed Haslam in regards to Schiano, Haslam's ego just couldn't take it.
Sorry...........the more I think about this, and I have been thinking about it quite a bit, I don't see how we are better off w/out Banner.
I don't get the respect that Banner is receiving from you. I mean to each his own and all, but Banner bothered me from the beginning, I warmed to him and then I have to say, it went downhill in a hurry at the end of the season.
After all is said and done, I like this new streamlined management structure. It's a good structure. The question will always be, are the right pieces. (Farmer, Sheiner and Pettine).
I like what I'm hearing from Farmer. I don't know much about Sheiner except what we see on his resume (and that's fine for a guy not in the limelight and running the business end). What little I know of Pettine is good. Sounds and acts like the guy that's needed to turn this thing around.
That's of course just guess work on my part.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't believe the later picks with Pitt. are enough to have any real value in a trade up scenario for a QB.
They would have little impact, merely as a throw-in to seal a deal. When you are playing in the top few picks of the draft, you need to bring the weight...
But you guys are ignoring the fact that you NEED those extra picks to bring in other players if you give up the higher picks. You don't get that?
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You don't get that?
Not overlooked at all. The point was that mid-round picks play to little or no effect on the high level trade...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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But that once again begs the question...... How much do you honestly believe a shrude negotiator like Banner would have given up to get a QB?
He has never been known to overpay or go "all in" like that given his history. I believe you somehow feel Banner would have done a 180 against all of his tendencies to make a huge deal for a QB. I simply don't see that.
Had the right QB have fallen to where he could have made what he saw as a "reasonable deal", I believe you are right. But I simply don't buy into the fact that Banner would have sold the farm for a QB.
I also know it was Farmer who was sent to evaluate the QB's. I don't see anything in Banners resume' to suggest he would have been the most qualified for the job of scouting and selecting a QB.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Vers....One thing I know. Our Draft Board is completed...there will only be a few tweaks from Combine Interviews and possibly a surprise talent here n there. Nothing should change from the board.
Agreed. This same concern was brought up shortly after Heckert was fired December 31, 2012 and many were assured (and I agreed with) that most of the draft board is normally completed at the time of his firing plus the scouting staff was all kept in tact through the draft to add continuity to their work and justification of value slotting.
The only problem was the scouting staff was not even allowed in the draft room come the 3-day draft, but that is a completely different issue  . An dumb organizational move reported directly after the draft and reaffirmed recently.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Look........I am the one who brought those mid-round picks up. I didn't think I would have to explain that they are important because you need extra picks when you give up other higher picks. I was NOT saying that they would be used in moving up. I AM saying you need them when you lose the higher picks. It was a very good strategy and it amazes me how few people give Banner any credit for all those moves. It's always black and white. It can't be that he did some good things and some bad things. Nope, everything was stupid and he was evil. It begins with Once upon a time and ends with Everyone lived happily ever after.......
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You don't get that?
Not overlooked at all. The point was that mid-round picks play to little or no effect on the high level trade...
and yet when Heckert used later round picks in the Trich trade, losing them was touted as catastrophic.
Now of course the entire TRich experiment was a cluster but even before his actual worth was determined the loss of those picks was panned.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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It's always black and white. It can't be that he did some good things and some bad things. Nope, everything was stupid and he was evil. It begins with Once upon a time and ends with Everyone lived happily ever after.......
And who said these were bad moves?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't know how much he would have given up. I have no inside information. I am only speculating. I have already admitted to that.
What I do know is that he put himself into position to move up. It's evident he never believed in Weeden and his moves tell me that he was positioning the team to get the QB they identified.
Banner did send Farmer, but Lombardi did a ton of work evaluating QBs, too.......most notably, Johnny Football.
Hopefully, Farmer will draft a QB at four or before and all of this rhetoric will be for naught.
That much, I think, we can agree on.
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Hopefully, Farmer will draft a QB at four or before... That much, I think, we can agree on.
I'm sure that most (not all) of us are onboard with your statement. It is our most pressing need...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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It was Banner's brilliance that kept Philly a contender all of those years.
Your smarter than this. Any monkey with a calculator can manage the numbers.
Andy Reid and Donovan McNAbb kept Philly a contender. Banner had zero to do with wins on the field.
He is a number crunching snake, everyone in the philly area knows it.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Yes we can agree we need a QB and I hope they can land which ever QB their target is.
I do believe Banner put us in a position to move up as well. The only place I really felt we disagreed was the extent Banner may have been willing to pay to move up.
As much as you may wish to not believe it, I did give Banner credit for some of the moves he made. It's not really black and white to me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It begins with Once upon a time and ends with Everyone lived happily ever after.......
More like the White Knight in shining armor kissed the Princess and she turned into a frog...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I think we can all appreciate Banner in the aspect of acquiring a first round pick for Trent, who's next season is going to be a gut-wrencher for him cause the jist I get, Indy fans are very unhappy with that move... it'll be his third season where people are already itchy to classify him as bust and writing him off as a mistake. Maybe he can catch onto the game and live up to high-draft pick talent, but it's looking grim.
Don't forget the Colt McCoy trade too, which was rather beneficial. Especially since San Fran got him and then tried to trade him before, to my knowledge at least - reworking his contract to a league based minimum.
The Bess trade "would have been awesome" if we didn't trade for a psycho that is on riding his last brain cell into the dirt.
I don't have all that much hate towards Banner. With that said, I'm not really sad to see him leave either. I like this setup, Farmer, Alec and Mike and they report directly to Jimmy. Jimmy said it best, streamlining it!
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If the article is true, i wouldnt want to coach the browns either. Why would you talk to interviewees like that? I would have punched him in the face followed by cuss words, lol
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Jimmy said it best, streamlining it!
There was no intent IMO to streamline the communication flow. If there was a problem, it was Haslam getting fed a line of BS or mis-information. No reason at all why the new structure shouldn't work; it's simple and should be effective. The "move" wasn't made merely for streamlining; it was done to get his house in order, cleaning up the dysfunctionality...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Although I agree, it wasn't the intent of the moves to "streamline" communications, obviously some sorta fallout happened - but the result is what it is and now the communication lines and etc seem to be much more streamlined than the previous structure.
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Pure opinion.
...as I stated. This isn't my first (or second, or third...) rodeo; I can recognize when someone is putting on their "dancing shoes".
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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It's merely just an opinion coming from you but "logic" and "reason" from others. Didn't you get the memo?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Didn't you get the memo?
 . That's why they make paper shredders...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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On Tuesday morning, the Cleveland Browns cleaned house. Again. General manager Michael Lombardi -- fired. CEO Joe Banner -- out. It seemed stunning, even by Browns standards.
Who fires the brass in early February after a coaching search? And why does this seem like an annual tradition?
If you listened closely, wherever you were in this great country, you heard the media and fans cackling in unison. It was like Jimmy Haslam's press conference was a sitcom filmed in front of a live studio audience, or a Chris Rock comedy special.
The Browns were mocked as clowns, a mess of an organization. Cleveland changing coaches and executives like you change your socks. Everyone was having a grand old time yucking it up.
Laugh now, but the joke will be on you later.
Haslam saw a problem. He fixed it. The Browns are much better off. Seriously.
Haslam is an easy target: He buys the team, makes sweeping changes, oddly structures the front office, unsuccessfully targets big-name coaches before settling on Rob Chudzinski, fires Chud less than 365 days later, struggles to find a coach who wants the gig, hires Mike Pettine to coach the team despite Banner's dreams of Dan Quinn, then gets rid of Banner and Lombardi.
With the offseason underway, Around The League explores what's next for all 32 teams.
Whew. I need a rest after reading that.
Such rapid and unrelenting change can signal the lack of a plan or vision. Maybe that's true. Or maybe Jimmy Haslam just hit a home run.
The Lombardi and Banner dynamic wasn't working. TheMMQB.com's Peter King and The Plain Dealer's Mary Kay Cabot have provided some excellent reporting on Cleveland's issues over the past few days, including King's detailing of Greg Schiano's interview with the Browns, which revealed dysfunction and disconnect at the top.
One coaching agent told me on Tuesday, "Jimmy (Haslam) had one idea. Mike had another. Joe another one. That leads to confusion and chaos. That's what happened with the coaching search in both of the last two years. That's the turn-off." Or as one rival executive explained to me, "Mike is a great football guy, but he couldn't get many things he wanted past Joe. It just didn't work. Now, with Ray (Farmer), they are back in business."
Oh yes, they are.
Farmer is a highly respected personnel man in the NFL. Well before this promotion, it was clear that he was on the fast track to becoming a general manager somewhere. He's detail-oriented, intelligent and will get things done. Haslam said Farmer will have full control of the 53-man roster. That's a big deal. Lombardi, the prior GM, did not enjoy this luxury. Farmer could've been the Miami Dolphins' general manager, but he passed to stay in Cleveland. While folks laugh at the Browns, that says something.
Cleveland won four games last year. But with the regime changes, a whole bunch of cap space and a ton of talent already on the roster, I think the Browns are in prime position to double their win total in 2014. Again, seriously.
Pettine might not have been the first choice, but he's an excellent one. He was a superb assistant at his first two NFL stops (Baltimore Ravens and New York Jets), and he immediately turned around the Buffalo Bills' defense last year. Pettine brings a much-needed blend of savvy, swagger and sensibility to Cleveland's head-coaching position.
Talking to Pettine two weeks ago on my SiriusXM Radio show, "Schein on Sports," he raved about the Browns' talent on defense and said, "We are going to have an attacking style defense that Cleveland fans will be proud of." Given Pettine's history, the Browns' strong pass rushers and Joe Haden's emergence as one of the NFL's best corners, Cleveland's defense is indeed going to rock.
I also loved the choice of Kyle Shanahan for the offensive coordinator position. Executives rave about the young coach's shrewdness in the X's-and-O's sense. And with the passing of the Brandon Weeden era, Shanahan will have the opportunity to help define a fresh approach at the quarterback position. Talking to Pettine, there is no question the Browns will bring in a new QB or two. How great would Kirk Cousins look in a Cleveland uniform, reuniting with Shanahan? Even better, how great would Johnny Manziel look running Shanahan's offense? Say what you want about Mr. Football, but he, along with Pettine and Shanahan, would give the Browns the right attitude and mentality going into Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.
The Browns have two first-round picks and 10 overall in an incredibly deep draft. They have options.
Debate: Most enticing free agent WR?
Many notable receivers -- like Jeremy Maclin -- are hitting the open market. Who's the best option? Our analysts debate. READ
And with all that cap room, they can make a splash in free agency, too. How about signing Ben Tate to play running back? That'd fill a gaping hole. And check the list of receivers hitting the open market -- some enticing options there. Do you think Eric Decker or Hakeem Nicks would look good alongside Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron?
Laughing is healthy. I encourage it. But stop chuckling at Cleveland. Get past the bevy of changes. Look at the result of the perceived insanity.
It's easy to compare this to George Steinbrenner's New York Yankees of the 1980s. Or maybe the comparison is when "The Boss" hired Bob Watson and some guy named Joe Torre in the winter of 1995. Remember when the back page of the New York Daily News screamed "Clueless Joe"?
The Browns are actually moving in the right direction. Get past the laughter and think about it.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...-laughing-stock
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You keep acting like you have inside information. Wanna clarify that? I don't really consider Insider information from journalists all that legit. You might want to add "possibly," or "rumor has it," to your declarations. Unless, of course, you know someone who has had access to all those meetings.
Vers, I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I would like to comment.
I am too skeptical of "insider" information, but direct quotes were used, and Whisenhunt has not refuted them so I have to believe it could be accurate.
If this was true, it does shine some insight on how Banner was conducting the interviews. As for Mc Daniels, I think he saw there was no concensus on his hiring, and didn't want to take the risk. I'm glad he did, IMO, he is not a HC.
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thank you for the link and opposing view.
i do wish that journalists were willing to give a more reasonable viewpoint these days though. this article is almost as sappy optimistic as the La Canfora article was suicidally negative.
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IMO were SCREWED til he either gets a clue and backs off and gives his FOOTBALL PEOPLE a chance to do there jobs ......
He just did.
He fired two non-football people and put his football people front-and-center.
Even if we replaced them with nobody, I'm quite convinced that we're better simply by not having Banner and especially Lombardi.
Banner is nothing but a control-freak bean counter. Lombardi is just a freak, and not in a good Jevon Kearse sorta way.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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thank you for the link and opposing view.
i do wish that journalists were willing to give a more reasonable viewpoint these days though. this article is almost as sappy optimistic as the La Canfora article was suicidally negative.
There is just no pleasing you is there 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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[Trading for future picks] was a very good strategy and it amazes me how few people give Banner any credit for all those moves.
If people agree that trading for the future picks is a good idea, then they credit Banner for it. Some people just would rather have used the picks to improve the team for 2013. Also, everyone gives Banner credit for the Richardson trade.
It seems that you have blinders on when it comes to Banner. You liked and respected him so much that you can't believe the stories that are coming out about him. These stories could be false, but doesn't that mean Banner just has tons of people out there who want to bury him? Do we really want someone running the team who has so many enemies?
My guess is that a good portion of the things coming out about Banner are true. Let's say 60%. If that much is true then he should have been fired.
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Quote:
Quote:
[Trading for future picks] was a very good strategy and it amazes me how few people give Banner any credit for all those moves.
If people agree that trading for the future picks is a good idea, then they credit Banner for it. Some people just would rather have used the picks to improve the team for 2013. Also, everyone gives Banner credit for the Richardson trade.
It seems that you have blinders on when it comes to Banner. You liked and respected him so much that you can't believe the stories that are coming out about him. These stories could be false, but doesn't that mean Banner just has tons of people out there who want to bury him? Do we really want someone running the team who has so many enemies?
My guess is that a good portion of the things coming out about Banner are true. Let's say 60%. If that much is true then he should have been fired.
I call things like that half-good moves. They're only as good as what you reap from them.
For example, we traded KW2 for a 2nd and a 5th, which I though was a great move. We then squandered it. I think we got Veikune and Larry Asante?
The Julio trade is another good example.
The trades are great if you hit on your return.
As for Banner, I blasted a lot of people for jumping the gun on him. It's turning out that they were right. Might've been a blindfolded dart hitting double bull, but the guy certainly went down in flames.
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