DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum FO changes. Part 2

But Banner wasn't his "choice"

Banner did legal work on the deal that got Haslem the team, the NFL basically said, hey, here's this guy, he's good at this stuff, hire him..

Link

Quote:

---

Haslam chose not to dump dirt on the folks who are leaving, praising them effusively for the jobs they did and thanking them over and over. But it’s pretty clear the NFL-arranged marriage between Haslam and Banner didn’t work, and Haslam wanted to regain charge of his team.

---

This is what I could find for now, google is chock full of Banner getting fired articles, finding any on the deal is a task...

I don't think he was a minority owner in aug .. he bought 70 % of the team ... he still needed league approval but that was just a formality ...

I was talking about Banner - I thought at first in Aug. Banner was said to have 5% as a minority owner but was going to be the CEO/Czar whatever.

Then when it all became official Banner was out as a Share holder and just named CEO.

As for the meetings. No Haslam definitely doesn't appear to be the meek guy sitting back. But he is no Hillbilly and is a Business man.

He was in a meeting that - HE WAS NOT RUNNING. He was an Onlooker and yes owner. But he is sitting back and Observing. It was his observations of Banner and Lombardi conducting the meeting and the way they were handling the candidates. There is not one quote noted to be said to or asked by Haslam in these meetings. Its all Wisenhunt speaking to Banner. The other candidates speaking to Banner or Lombardi. Correct me if I'm wrong not one conversation was given credit to Haslam from these meetings.

That is how a Meeting would be with the Owner observing. I think he Absorbed and was rather shocked at the unprofessional way that everything was being handled.

Minority owner of the Steelers - yeah he had an inkling but chose Banner - do you think he sought out Banner or the NFL suggested Banner to Haslam?

Also possibly he had a heads up of trouble brewing with PILOT. So he definitely needed Banner to run things while he attended to his family business.

Just for the record...I never had any preference of Hands on owner...actually I always thought the owner should have a Football Guy (which Banner is not) Run Things. His inquiry to Parcells was interesting.

But I am willing to back him as a hands on owner. I think this past few weeks is the first Mark of him being a hands on owner cause Banner's unprofessional business demeanor was a shock to him and he soured on him fast.

We had also over kill. Sheiner and Farmer gave reason to not have a need for Banner and Lombardi. These are guys he can have with us for 20 years. Can you imagine a senile old Banner running things still here.

This is the only reload I'm giving Haslam - I consider from here forward this being HIS TEAM. He took charge and this is it. Now if he becomes a Rooney and we continuity great. If he becomes a Schneider and we got a reboot all the time cause of meddling or a Jones ownership as he makes himself the GM...

But I like Farmer I like what I have read about Sheiner. I loved Chud and the staff he assembled I didn't like the reboot but I also think Pettine can be a Super Star HC...and I know WE NEED THAT FREAKING QB!!!! and we can start the real Browns era....Once and for all!

good reading you bro. Enjoy

j/c bro ... on to the HANDS ON OWNER MYTH ....

look ... this ones a little hazy cause everyone definition of a hands on owner is different .... so i'll try the best I can to give u my definition(s) ... see what I mean by hazy .. *L* ..

I want an owner like the Rooneys ... to me there hands off even though over the last decade there names have been in the news more often than the previously 40 years when u didn't know they were alive ...

they HIRE PEOPLE to there football positions and let them do there jobs .... they are around but LEAVE THERE FOOTBALL PEOPLE ALONE .... they hire folks and then let them either strive or fail on THEIR OWN MERITS not on what the owner believes should be going on ... if there QB is suspected/charged with rape your gonna hear fro them ... if a potential big time FA WR wants to try and negotiate via the press U will HEAR FROM THEM ... and good for them ... *L* ... other than that ...

the guys like them to me .... Bob Kraft is another GREAT MODEL of what Mr. Myiaga said ... hands on ... hands off .. oh wait .. that was wax ... *L* .. hes there ... but he leaves his FOOTBALL PEOPLE ALONE ...

some more are the dude from the SeaHawks .. and hes a great example .. hes had some winning but lots of losing along the way ... but one thing hes done is let his football people do there jobs .... hes had to step in a few times but it was when his football people started to not get along and that usually only happened after they'd been together for at least 3 or 4 years (thinking of the walrus and his GM when he started there .. then the walrus got power hungry and got the gm booted .... and while I'm talking about it .. allen gave him a FAIR AMOUNT of time and then showed him the door) ...

theres more ... the glaziers in Tampa, Lurie, Mara, York, Wilson ... etc etc ...

NOW onto the HANDS ON OWNERS IMO .... now were talking guys like Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder (the old one .. hes backed off just not sure how much), ... WOW ... that's about it ... much shorter list than I thought ... *L* ...

to me these guys ARE WAY TO INVOLVED with there teams .... there teams will NEVER WIN UNTIL THEY BACK OFF ...

and look at there records for the proof ... Jones won with Landry and Schramms leftovers and he brought in the hair and let him coach ... LEFT HIM ALONE ... they won and WON BIG ... then Jerry's ego got in the way and he pushed the hair out ... he then SUCKED until the brought in the tuna ... GREAT MOVE ... it scared me ... I thought OH NO .. he's gotten it ... then he decides hes gonna try and tell the tuna who to draft .. and BYE BYE TUNA ...

Now ... as long as hes doing what hes doing ... THERE DOOMED!!!!!

Jerry and Danny are FACTUAL PROOF THAT HANDS ON OWNERS DON'T WORK!!!!

I would much rather have an owner like Randy that hired his football people and left them alone then the type of owner I think the DA is gonna be .... now let READ WHAT I SAID ... I did not endorse Randy as owner ... he was to hands off ... like he didn't really care .. that's not good either .. but given the two evils i'll take the aloof approach over the I know more than U and its my ball so were playing by my rules or I'm gonna take my ball home and fire U approach ...

and save the he wasn't hands on last year crap ... cause that's all it is is crap ... the man was busy bribing and firing to hopefully save himself from doing any time .... gee .. I wonder if he knew about the rebate scam ... ...

sheesh .. I haven't even thought about that .. I'm suppose to believe and trust this guy .. OMG ... why the hell would I believe this dude ... *LOL* .. that makes all the excuses for him even funnier ... man I hope COLORED BLIND ISN'T READING THIS ... it may kill him of embarrassment ..

On to us ... what do we have .... so far as far as I can tell we have a HOT HEADED IRON FISTED BULLY WITH A HORRIBLE TEMPER running the show ... and now ... as far as I can tell he's going to be crawling up all there asses .... ya ... that's GREAT ....

Look folks .. this dude LUCKED INTO chud (and by chud I mean Turner .. more on that later ) ..... and I think he may have LUCKED into a good coach with Pettine ... out of all the interviews and potential candidates I liked this guy as much or more than any of them ... and hopefully he LUCKED into something good with Farmer ... oh god am I gonna have fun with his name ... and oh my ... the Dumb Ass and the Farmer ... *LOL* .. oh the endless possibilities there ..

but the main thing I hope for is that we GET TO FIND OUT if he did good or not ... BACK THE F OFF AND LEAVE THESE GUYS ALONE ... LET THEM LIVE OR DIE ON THEIR OWN .... and from everything I've heard ... Pettine and farmer don't lack for backbone ...

I have MAJOR DOUBTS about the DA and what kind of owner hes gonna be ... but if he leaves these guys alone and lets them work then I will be less pissed at him if these guys fail .. *L* ..

As for the myth .... I have the Rooney's, Kraft and Mara in my corner ... U guys have Jerry and Danny .... TKO IN THE FIRST MINUTE OF RND 1 ....

Bro, you are the most entertaining poster on the planet. Seriously. I laugh my ass off every time I read your posts. That last one was freaking classic. Oh..........in case other posters don't understand what I mean by that............It's a huge compliment and not sarcastic at all.

I don't know what to make of Haslam. I loved him at first. Loved his fire. Loved his energy. Loved his will. Loved that he got pissed.

Now..........I'm not so sure. I wasn't happy about us firing Chud, but I could understand it and thought there might be more to it. This latest move---while wildly popular w/you and the rest of the board-----actually scares the crap out of me. He's freaking all over the place.

Bro, I am seriously wondering if he was the one who wanted to fire Chud and Banner wanted no part of it.

It bothers me that Banner didn't want Schiano and McDaniels and did want Quinn and he is out because of it. WTH?

I am not there yet w/you on hating Haslam, but I have a lot less faith than I did before.

Now.............about Junior. You say he was hands--off. That's true in that he was a quiet introvert who probably suffered from mental illness. He would interview through emails? LMAO bro...........that's weird.

On the other hand, that loser made more changes than any owner in the league. Fire that guy. Hire this guy. Give this guy complete power. Fire him. Hire someone else. Fire secretaries and gophers. Hire new people. Give complete power to the devil Collins only to take it back after people went nuts. Hire a new guy and then bring in the most arrogant man in the world less than a year later. More firings...more hires.

That's pretty hands-on, bro.

It's also freaking nuts!

And I don't wanna hear how he slept in Brown's pajamas as a kid. Heck, he probably still sleeps in PJ's w/footies. Dude was majorly weird and I'm glad he is gone.

Now, I just hope we didn't trade one lunatic for another..........

I was talking about Banner - I thought at first in Aug. Banner was said to have 5% as a minority owner but was going to be the CEO/Czar whatever.

Then when it all became official Banner was out as a Share holder and just named CEO.

Never read that ... about Banner being a partial owner ..... every article I read said 70% to haslam now and the other 30% at some point in the not to distant future ... not even sure where Banners 5% would come from ...

As for the meetings. No Haslam definitely doesn't appear to be the meek guy sitting back. But he is no Hillbilly and is a Business man.

He was in a meeting that - HE WAS NOT RUNNING. He was an Onlooker and yes owner. But he is sitting back and Observing. It was his observations of Banner and Lombardi conducting the meeting and the way they were handling the candidates. There is not one quote noted to be said to or asked by Haslam in these meetings. Its all Wisenhunt speaking to Banner. The other candidates speaking to Banner or Lombardi. Correct me if I'm wrong not one conversation was given credit to Haslam from these meetings.

That is how a Meeting would be with the Owner observing. I think he Absorbed and was rather shocked at the unprofessional way that everything was being handled.

I agree with everything u just said 100% ... every word of it I believe ... that has nuttin to do with how banner ended up here ... but its a good read none the less ..

Minority owner of the Steelers - yeah he had an inkling but chose Banner - do you think he sought out Banner or the NFL suggested Banner to Haslam?

No clue .. Nor does it matter to me .. Haslam was going to do what he wanted with his team .. he hasn't made that clearly evident to U in the last 6 weeks?? .. come on bro ..... its ok .. u can admit it .. we all know .... its right there in front of each and every one of us ..

Also possibly he had a heads up of trouble brewing with PILOT. So he definitely needed Banner to run things while he attended to his family business.

Lots of possibilities my friend ... only limited by how much your willing to overlook and/or ignore .... the more your willing to close your eyes too, the more possibilities there are ....


Just for the record...I never had any preference of Hands on owner...actually I always thought the owner should have a Football Guy (which Banner is not) Run Things. His inquiry to Parcells was interesting.

as usual we agree more than we disagree even though we debate over those fine points like were polar opposites ... *LOL* ...


We had also over kill. Sheiner and Farmer gave reason to not have a need for Banner and Lombardi. These are guys he can have with us for 20 years. Can you imagine a senile old Banner running things still here.

we backed into Chud (Norv) last year ... hopefully we hit the jackpot again with Pettine and Old McDonald ... *LOL* ... man is this gonna be fun .... don't bother Daman as I could give a rats ass how childish u think I am ....

lightning very well may have struck twice ... U know what would have been REALLY GREAT though tabber .... FIRING THE DA'S WITHOUT FIRING CHUD AND NORV ...

HOW ABOUT THAT ONE FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But I like Farmer I like what I have read about Sheiner. I loved Chud and the staff he assembled I didn't like the reboot but I also think Pettine can be a Super Star HC...and I know WE NEED THAT FREAKING QB!!!! and we can start the real Browns era....Once and for all!

WOOF WOOF WOOF .... LETS GO BABY .... here's to hoping my friend .. its carried us for the last jagillion years .... hopefully this time WINS finally push hope to the Stilers ....

JC:

An interview w/ Scott Raab- a Cleveland native, works for Esquire Magazine, and the author of "The Whore of Akron".

Essentially, he applauds the firing of Banner and Lombardi but he goes to town on Jimmy Haslem!

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/02/13/scott-raab-says-firing-joe-banner-was-an-inevitable-ending/

I don't have a problem with you Attack. I just find it amusing how the old guard on here always comes to the rescue of each other. You had people claiming what a stand up poster you were, and I thought it was important to set the record straight...not that you aren't are a stand up guy...but that you should at least have let people know its information you paid for...not because you knew someone in the organization. And let people know that it's information anyone can get if they are wiling to pay for it. To me that's a bit disengenuous you just let old guard carry on like that.

I share some of the info with others in PM. I am pretty impressed with the recent track record that the main insider over there has been batting recently. Its worth the money, IMO.

tabber, Vers, Diam, DAMN DUDES! This is feeling like the old days!

A fine example of how posters can disagree on specifics without involving personal attacks to add pretend strength to their opinions.

Diam, miss your style bro, but especially miss your take and the detail in which you explain your opinions without using a ton of words. Also miss your comments on the "dolts" in the "sea of stupidity" that they swim in. LOL But I guess it's best to leave that stuff out. LOL Still, there's so much of that going on here these days that I spend most of my thread reading scrolling down to something worthwhile.

I was glad to see Haslam rid the team of Banner and Lombardi. Never wanted either of them. Bought into them the best I could because, for me, it's better to buy in and try to understand them than it is to be a miserable fan. But I was still miserable.

Mad as hell that they fired Chud so quickly. Especially after not giving him and Norv anything to work with and then blame Chud for "not progressing". It almost looked like a set up to fire him but that doesn't make sense in the first season. The reason it took on a set up look to me is that the FO had no freaking idea what they were doing and they were way too hands-on themselves.

If they really knew what they were doing they would have given the coaching staff some support instead of cutting the legs out from under them. They thought they knew football better than anyone else and were out to prove themselves right on that account. They were trying to re-invent the wheel with their "consensus" BS. I saw that as more like a way for others to not be able to nail the blame on anyone for any dumbass moves that didn't work out. "It was a consensus, other people had a hand in it too."

You gave a really good, insightful description of a hands-on owner. So did Vers in describing Randy and his many moves. I actually thought I wanted one when nobody knew where Randy was for months.

Randy was driven by the fans. He got scared when the team was losing and felt he needed to make changes to please the fans. Yeah, he wore his PJ's as a child and was a big Browns fan, but he never noticed the workings of the "Modell Method" but it was ingrained into his psyche having been a lifelong fan. It is ingrained in the psyche of every Browns fan.

The Modell Method: When you're losing, fire everybody and bring in new guys to give the fans HOPE. If the winning doesn't start happening right away fire them too and re-create that HOPE. Modell ran this team by feeding the fans HOPE. We lived and breathed on that HOPE. There was always HOPE. Just as the Draft has become the biggest part of the season for us Browns fans because of the HOPE we get in bringing in new players, bringing in new coaches also brings us HOPE so we starve for it every two years. We've been fed HOPE for so long I think most fans want that HOPE rather than wins because they know HOPE feels good, they have no idea what winning feels like.

Randy ran this team in that same method. Instill new HOPE but when the winning didn't come right away and the HOPE diminished he jumped in and created more HOPE by bringing in new guys.

NOBODY EVER GOT A CHANCE TO FINISH WHAT THEY STARTED. If they had we may have enjoyed some serious winning had they not been fired for more HOPE.



FIRING THE DA'S WITHOUT FIRING CHUD AND NORV ...

HOW ABOUT THAT ONE FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That would have been the perfect move in my opinion. I was so high on that coaching staff. Hell, for the first time since our return we were STOPPING THE RUN! At least very strongly in the beginning. It tapered off towards the end but was still a strength. Since when has stopping the run been a strength in Cleveland?! All that defense needed was a couple years to solidify and I believe we'd have been dominant.

We had two excellent OC's in Norv and Chud. They were both excellent QB coaches too. But the FO never provided the support they needed since they were already without a QB. A running back would have been nice to see before game 13! 2014 was supposed to fix that. They never gave them a chance.



Great to have you back posting. As they say at the end of the AA meetings... KEEP COMIN' BACK!

Quote:

---

NOW onto the HANDS ON OWNERS IMO .... now were talking guys like Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder (the old one .. hes backed off just not sure how much), ... WOW ... that's about it ... much shorter list than I thought ... *L* ...

---

That's about as WEAK as WEAK can get man.

Jones yes. He crazily acts as the GM
Snyder? You even say he's backed off. I DESPISE this guy but I THINK you're grouping him in here because of his crazy FA spending in years past and the crazy RGIII trade? Am I reading you correctly on that one?

Here's another I know you would have added if alive today. Al Davis. He again crazily acted as GM.

Are you seriously concerned that Haslam is going to end up like Jones and Davis?

GET REAL. That happening is like any chance in hell the SKY TURNS GREEN.

If i had to guess, I would bet you're not as self righteous in real life as you are on this board. I think you're probably actually a pretty nice person.

My guess is that in real life you probably act like just as big of an ass as you do on the board.

Quote:

---

Jules: I assume you are referencing my post. That post was in jest, to amuse. I assure you it was not through an "inferiority complex" as, although I've only been posting here for 11 months, I have known Vers, eo, and others since I starting posting on the Browns site in 2007. (And I'm not a "screamer" ).

---

I've been here since 2001. Much of the "old clique" even longer. Jules, Vers, eotab, Diam, Attack and many others were here when I got here. When I say here I mean this board when it was the Official Message Board of the Cleveland Browns. But when the FO started the DawgChat mess this board was created by Purp to be just like the old one. So I, and many others from the old board, refer to both boards as one since Purp made sure it is exactly as it was back then. (in a matter of a couple weeks!) We've had a non-interrupted run.

But I digress. Just because some have been here longer doesn't mean we know any more than more recent posters. But it does mean that we know each other better than do the more recent posters.

We've been through, in my time, going on 14 years of discussion, deliberations and disagreements. All the way to down-and-out dawg fights. We used to even have wars with members of other teams boards when they'd come here like Sparta to make trouble. We kicked ass and run 'em off. Hell, some of us used to scour the other boards looking for clues to pending attacks and we'd be so ready for them it looked like Devner vs Seattle. those were fun times. I'm sure any of the old times who just read that smiled in remembrance. That kind of thing doesn't happen anymore. I suppose it happened back then because the whole message board thing was so new.

Anyway, over a time span like that you really get to know people. Many of us have gotten to know each other through PM's as well. Many of us have met personally in the Muni Lot at DawgTalk Island. (the old board was called DawgTalk). We've met at training camp and at games and other ways.

A lot of us, in PM's, have discussed personal life outside of this football board and way, way beyond football itself. Family tragedies, medial emergencies, deaths of loved ones, you name it it's been discussed through PM's when folks needed to talk to friends they knew and trusted. That's a strong bond that doesn't get built in 11 months. Stick around.

All I'm saying is that the "old guard" do know each other very well, we've learned each other's personalities, what buttons to push, what buttons to avoid, their line of thinking on many football matters and their honesty/dishonesty in presenting facts and first and foremost, personalities. So if a more recent member who doesn't know an older one makes comments that are misconstrued, well, of course we'll jump in to set that straight.

Regarding the posting of information/facts, it is in the rules that rumors are not allowed to be posted. The rules state that if someone posts information that they are required, by rule, to refer to the source of that information. It doesn't have to be a link but at a minimum a reference that points back to the source. This rule stops people from "making things up" and presenting them as facts. That "facts" still may not be accurate due to the source being wrong about it, but at least we, as readers, know the poster didn't make it up.

It used to be that mis-information and made-up facts did not penetrate this board because of the rules. Really, now-a-days we have so many posters posting misinformation that would have had 10 different posters asking for a link. These days information/facts are posted and it's up to each individual to do his/her own internet search determine if it's true or not.

The rules also disallow links to subscriber information. So if you have subscriber information and wish to let others in on it you have to take a different tactic. You can't just say, "I got his information from...". Back in the day that post would have been deleted as per the rules. Back in the day the moderators were very often referred to as "the Nazi Refs" for their hard-handed method of enforcing the rules. LOL But back then the information on here was far more reliable.

Attack took a different tactic and it did make it look like he was getting info from a friend in the organization. (Actually, those kind of posts used to get deleted as well since there was no source credited and an internet search would turn up nothing). But with the more lax enforcement of the rules, as I explained above, the tactic worked. He did it as well as he could. But I must admit that since I'm no longer a subscriber over there I was wondering where this information was coming from.

Those of us who know AttackDawg know he's not going to just make things up. Perhaps that's one reason we didn't ask him for a link. We know there's a reason. Nonetheless, I, myself, was suspicious about his comments because deep down inside I wanted to know if he knew someone with the team. But you don't ask that stuff even in a PM because if one does know someone they can't betray that trust. I assumed I knew the source. I guess I just wasn't comfortable with the tactic. I'm still old school insofar as adhering to the board rules.

I know I didn't take offense to it. And I've been around forever!



I believe more than anything, the main reason people came to his "defense" as was stated, wasn't really for the purpose of "defending him", as much as it was to attempt to "re-enforce his credibility" to those who weren't as familiar with him.

I'm quite happy there's some new blood coming here. While some of us do think of this place as an extended family of sorts, all families grow. I see that as a positive thing, not a negative.

JMHO

Hehe.. Us "Old Guard" not worried.. I suppose I'm "old guard" since as one poster said I "Saint's been around since the Eisenhower administration.."

FWIW, Attack has always been a decent and reliable poster from my perspective.

Yeah I had to word it in a way so as not to get it deleted but still just give U guys some stuff to discuss.
And anyone could have pm'd me, as some have before.
But expect more..especially draft time.Lets talk more ball people..

Don't forget ya'll clique meeting on my porch at 4 pm, The rockers are all set up and coolers are full of ice.

Quote:

---

FWIW, Attack has always been a decent and reliable poster from my perspective.

---

And that is why people posted to "defend him". So that those who haven't been around as long and don't know which posters to trust can find out. If that same post would have come from any of several others who will not be named, I don't think anybody would be backing them up.

jc.

so....with Farmer and Pettine now the mans here in brownstown, you guys think Haslam actually let these guys do what they do, or are they on short leashes, as well?

yes and yes.

Quote:

---

so....with Farmer and Pettine now the mans here in brownstown, you guys think Haslam actually let these guys do what they do, or are they on short leashes, as well?

---

I think he settles down a bit on the house cleaning firings. He's taken a lot of crap and I don't think he'll be too anxious to take anymore in two years.

But I also think that neither of these guys, Farmer or Pettine is his guys. Farmer was brought in by the two stooges and Pettine was "the best head coach available", as Haslem put it, and I took that to mean a very diplomatic way of saying, the guy I wanted didn't want to work with the two stooges I fired and so Pettine was the best one left on the board.

Farmer and Pettine are both going to have to have some reasonable success or I think Jimmy will start anew. At least with the HC position as Farmer played little part in his hiring he'll not likely play a very big part in his defense if he falters.

Personally, I don't see why they can't bring some success here. They both seem very competent.

My suspicion is that he regrets the Chud firing most of all.

Lombardi and Banner makes sense given the chaos, and Chud was an unknowing participant.

I suspect those "outsiders" gave Haslam an earful.

clique??? lol thats funny oh btw leave Jules alone She's IN THE CLIQUE!

But that sort of is ridiculous I've almost strangled each poster...but after time we can't get away with some mutual RESPECT for each other. That's all it is...btw you forgot to add Pit...I think he's in the clique too...just a rebel.

seriously...Jules is as sweet as one can be in real life.