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I agree they need to get it done. But, signing these 2 should have been done in the off season of 2013. With free agency less than 1 month away it is gong to be harder for Farmer to get it done.
Providing they want to get deals done with them. I'm not sure that's the case. Maybe it is. Maybe they know how much they're willing to offer to Mack and will wait for his stated willingness to give them the right of first refusal.
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Do you really think if Ward and Mack sign elsewhere it is Farmers fault?
Not at all. I just think that it could just be business decisions.
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This situation is another good reason why Banner and Lombardi are no longer running the operation in Cleveland.
I'm neither here nor there on it. I've proposed letting Mack & Ward both walk if they won't sign reasonable deals. Get the compensatory picks for them next year (likely a 3rd rounder for Mack and possibly another or a 4th rounder for Ward) barring any big free agent signings by the Browns.
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I guess I am lost because I don't know what you are talking about when you talk about "The DA"
Owner=DA....no
GM.....no
President....no
CEO.....no
I got it....Derrick Anderson.......na
Director of Accounting?
Director of Activities?..
Dumb Ass......yep....that probably fits comming from you.
In the end I say accountability
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Man, we have had just about every single possible front office arrangement we could have over the past 15 or so years, haven't we?
1999: We start out with Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark, 2 guys from a successful NFL franchise. We hire a rookie head coach from the pros. Flop.
Butch Davis came in in 2001. He started out with Clark as the GM, but soon became Coach/GM/Lord of all he surveyed. He was good, until he wasn't.
In 2005, we brought in Romeo Crennel, then hired Phil Savage to be the GM. In 2007, we traded our starting QB in week 2 of the season. We won 10 games and had an offensive juggernaut. We then imploded in 2008, and everyone was fired again.
2009 brought along Eric Mangini. He was head coach, but he hired his own GM, then couldn;t get along with him. (sounds a lot like Banner/Lombardi) Then the big fat fish came in as President. He hung out in Seattle as much as he did in Cleveland. He spoke to Seattle media more than he did Cleveland media.
Anyway, in 2010, Holmgren hired Tom Heckert. Looking at the very difficult schedule coming in 2010, he kept Mangini. That was a marriage made in hell.
In 2011, Mangini was fired, and Shurmur came in. He lasted through 2012, when he was fired along with the President and GM.
In 2013, we hired a CEO, a GM who wasn't a GM to start with, but then became a GM ..... and a head coach.
11 months later, the head coach was fired. We hired a new guy, then, proclaiming that both Banner and Lombardi had accomplished their goal of putting great people in place, both were fired, and Farmer was promoted to GM.
Wow....... GMs and no GM ....... Presidents, CEOs, and who knows what else. (going from memory here)
I'd say that we've tried just about every possible front office setup here is in the past 15 years. Hopefully this new one works.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hopefully this new one works.
It should, cause like you say, we've had every other hierarchy combination and damn near all other people except these 4 guys.
#gmstrong
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Do you really think if Ward and Mack sign elsewhere it is Farmers fault?
The excuse making has already begun. 
Personally, I hope he lets Ward walk, but your excuse making is pretty darn funny. I mean, who has ever heard of signing your own free agents at the time their contracts are up? That never happens in the NFL. Never!!!
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Guys, may I ask what happened to that "continuity" argument you were all going off about just about a month ago?
What happened to the "he lied to us" argument that you were tearing up about?
Just wondering.............
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Hopefully this new one works.
It should, cause like you say, we've had every other hierarchy combination and damn near all other people except these 4 guys.
I think it will. We finally got it right. Haslam doesn't need a buffer like Lerner did. Unlike Lerner, Haslam actually worked the business and grew the business. He knows how to make decisions. Lerner was like Little Lord Pomeroy or Georgie Porgy.
Haslam isn't going to micro-manage. Farmer is going to do his deal, Pettine his, and Scheiner his. One over football operations, one over coaching the team, and one over business operations. All three critical and different functions.
Some can call Haslam a dumb ass, but I like the fact he makes changes when he see what we are doing isn't working. Mistakes are one thing, but it takes a simpleton to keep beating their head in to a wall and keep thinking they don't need a hammer to knock it down.
Mistake are just like bad draft picks....I've said this many times before....I don't like them, but I dislike sticking with them even more.
Unlike some, I have the ability to move past mistakes. I can deal with that, but, some can't and expect everything to be perfect, just as it is in their life.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Guys, may I ask what happened to that "continuity" argument you were all going off about just about a month ago?
What happened to the "he lied to us" argument that you were tearing up about?
Just wondering.............
That's a valid question and I can only speak for myself. As you can see by my new signature I question that still.
At the same time, you already blew up the coaching staff which left the idea of continuity in shambles. So at that stage, if you're going to blow it up, blow it up all at the same time.
If Haslam had any intention of firing the FO, I'd rather it be done now in conjunction with firing the coaching staff, than wait another year or two and have yet another year of an overhaul.
Also, I believe not giving Chud the weapons on O to work with, then making him the fall guy for all of the teams shortcomings was a dirty move. those in charge of providing him with talent were just as culpable for the teams failures last year as Chud was.
So I believe if you wish to hold "everyone responsible equally", they needed to go too.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Chub had the weapons. We had the lead 4-5 time in the 4th qtr only to fail.
That isn't a lack of weapons.
And....we gave Cuub a guy named Rainey who turned in to a pretty fine weapon for Tampa after Chub didn't use him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The book on Haslam has yet to be written, but Chapter One certainly portrays him as a guy in over his head who is scrambling. It's not a very flattering look.
Let's hope he gets it right, as he's not going anywhere for awhile unless federal charges rear their head (which at this juncture I'm doubting, though it remains to be seen).
We may as well give him the benefit of the doubt at this point, though there is a whole lot of doubt.
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You see it your way and I see it mine. There were no major investments on the O side of the ball. None.
You hire an OC as the HC and dedicate your top 3 FA signings and 1st round draft picks to the D. Yet your O has been floundering for years. If that math adds up to you I won't argue the point with you.
But that math certainly doesn't add up to me. And if you are leading the game that many times, maybe your D should stop someone once in a while?
I'm not saying Chud was a great HC. Problem being, I don't think we had the time to find out.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Guys, may I ask what happened to that "continuity" argument you were all going off about just about a month ago?
What happened to the "he lied to us" argument that you were tearing up about?
Just wondering.............
He did lie, but I think what we'll find is, it was more of a change of heart than an out and out lie.
I think Haslam looked at things as any business man does and decided he had a problem. Then he set out to fix it.
did he? Time will tell.
I still feel as if we should have given Chud one more year. But, water under the bridge....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This first year failed because Haslam bought in that Banner was going to be the positive force those who recommended him did..
No one was clamouring for him too be on their team or ML..
I do need to find out something I read, that JB has some stock or something in the Browns, don't know if that is true or not.
But Banner sold Lombardi to Haslam and that didn't go well..that draft was crap yet they bragged about what they did.
Just the way they handled business pointed to each of them having their own agendas.
There so many articles about all of their pasts that should have signed red flags..the main one was if Banner got in on the football side instead of sticking to the business side of things.
He didn't and it showed..
Hardly anyone wanted ML..and even the way he was hired(can U be hired before you're hired????) lead to a lot ill will.
Well it came to a head in the coaching search but the signs were there during the season..there were things going on that seemed odd to many of us..players being signed then jettisoned, not securing a RB after the TR trade,,etc,,
Now all of this mess and it has made the Browns look like a mess.
BTW I'm tired of JH's montra of the media is the one portraying the Browns as dysfunctional..he and his boys caused it.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 02/16/14 09:55 PM.
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At the same time, you already blew up the coaching staff which left the idea of continuity in shambles. So at that stage, if you're going to blow it up, blow it up all at the same time.
I think it worked out well actually.
No one here hired anyone else. They can now all swim or sink together as equals.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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it was more of a change of heart than an out and out lie.
Ahhh............I get it. It's a lie when we don't agree and it's a change of heart when we do agree. 
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Regarding the regime... YTown: Hopefully this new one works. My response: It should, cause like you say, we've had every other hierarchy combination and damn near all other people except these 4 guys. Quote:
What happened to the "he lied to us" argument that you were tearing up about?
Just wondering.............
The choice for me here is to move on or keep crying.
He did lie when he made an issue for continuity and then blew everything up in less than a year. So much for promoting continuity. So I no longer trust in him that continuity is as high on his list of importance as he insinuated.
But in review I'm not so sure he fired the "championship caliber" FO as it seems Banner & Lombardi saw themselves. When people first meet, everyone is on their best behaivor. It's not until you really get to know them that their character flaws begin to show. I think Haslem had seen enough.
I thought firing Chud, especially so soon, was a bad decision. I hoped to the point of believe that the Chud/Norv combo would have had this offense clicking given even an average QB. Also impressive was how Horton made our rushing defense a strength for the first time since our return. (credit to the FO also for FA acquisitions).
I also liked that in my perception Chud never had that "deer in the headlights" syndrome on gameday as did all our previous HC's. Chud seemed always to have his head squarely in the game and that was refreshing to see from my team's HC.
So yeah, firing Chud was opposed to Haslam's own continuity viewpoint. He lied to us. Firing Banner & Lombardi showed that he felt that he not only hired the wrong coach but also that the FO completed the trifecta of the whole damn mess.
Many fans had the opinion that getting rid of the coach you didn't believe in, even after only one year, was a good, ballsy decision to have cut your losses before things got really bad. I didn't agree with that at the time. But keeping a FO intact when you don't believe in them either would be contrary to his own method of cutting your losses. So at least he's true to himself.
Now, are we back to continuity as being important? I'm very wary of that. He could become, as Diam fears, another Jerry Jones or a Daniel Snyder which would actually be enough for me to give up.
On the other hand, he could now go back to his "belief" that "you can't build a winning franchise if you change your coaches every 2 or 3 years" and that "continuity is an important ingredient for the organization". It could happen.
As for what happened to the "he lied to us" argument, it's still there until he proves otherwise. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I won't be fooled again as I've lost confidence in him regarding his continuity statements. Now he has to prove to me he wasn't full of crap and he can do that by letting his football guys do their job. By giving them a fair chance to finish what they start.
Unlike before, I'm not comfortable that he will.
#gmstrong
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Haslam isn't going to micro-manage. Farmer is going to do his deal, Pettine his, and Scheiner his.
I don't know where you garnered the confidence that such will be the case but I wish I had some of it.
You have explained Haslam as a business man and since you're from the Pilot area of the country you've seen him first hand so I trust your evaluation in that regard.
But this is football. A game of emotions. Nearly all owners are some sort of self-made billionaires and you don't get there by being business stupid. But many of them have made some unbelievably adverse decisions when the emotions run high. Being an owner of an NFL franchise takes those billionaires into a realm of which they are unaccustomed. Oh, they know the business side. As does Scheiner. But dealing with the emotions of their team puts them pretty much on the same level as the rest of us in that regard. It's emotional, tempers flare, changes are made, heads roll.
I sincerely hope you're right that he'll let his people do their stuff because all three of them seem qualified.
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But Banner sold Lombardi to Haslam and that didn't go well..that draft was crap yet they bragged about what they did..
I'm excited for a three year thread evaluating 2012 and 2013. They both seem really weak at the top to me. I don't envy Heckert or Banner/Lombardi trying to get something done from their positions.
We really could have upgraded some positions that aren't normally valuable high in the draft like guard if we snagged guys like Cooper or Warmack in 2013. Or grabbing Kuechly in 2012. But in 2012 outside of Luck/RG3..the guys we were considering like Blackmon and Claiborne are looking as bad as T Rich right now. Dee Milliner was one of the more common choices for 2013 and he didn't exactly stud out last season.
Last edited by Kingcob; 02/16/14 10:41 PM.
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Speaking for myself .......
Once the head coach was fired, continuity went out the window. I think that everyone would have preferred that all of the changes made would have been made all at the same time, rather than changing the head coach, and then the CEO and GM ...... but that's not how it worked out. At least in the case of Banner and Lombardi, there is a legitimate reason why Haslam decided to make the move. It is obvious that he gave it a ton of thought.
To me it seems like the Chud firing was Haslam going along with another's decision, and Banner/Lombardi was him making his own decision. Will it work? Who knows? Hopefully. No one can ever say 100% what will work ...... but it seems as though Farmer is well thought of and respected .... and that Pettine looks like a strong leader ...... so hopefully this will be a setup that works.
All I, as a fan, can do is hope that they do work.
As far as Banner and Lombardi, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I felt that they destroyed a large part of that faith by the way they (I feel) helped orchestrate Chud's ouster. I truly believe that they threw Chud under the bus in order to protect themselves, then, like piranha, started to tear each other apart as well once on the hook for their actions. I think that each guy tried to save his own job, and in doing so, each guy lost his. When a guy like Haslam is so far over the top when firing someone, it means that he is really ticked off somewhere deep inside, and is compensating so that he doesn't get started down the wrong path in a press conference, and start ripping into someone he is upset/angry with.
That's my opinion. Your's may, and probably does, differ. We'll probably never know for certain who is right on certain particulars.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We'll probably never know for certain who is right on certain particulars.
The truth usually comes out in the wash, especially more and more and things gravitate towards social media. Especially given the propensity to give a column to anyone with insider knowledge.
We more or less got the scoop on the whole Savage/Collins and later the Savage/RAC saga once the dust settled.
It didn't take long for it to come out how much of a clown and a loser Mangini was once the air was cleared.
We got a clear enough picture of the H&H regime fairly quickly, and were more or less privy to Holmgren's meddling in a pretty short time.
It remains to be seen what is true and what isn't in terms of the latest FO to bite the dust, but it will be clear soon enough.
I have a myriad of complaints as far as the new era of reporting goes, but the inside information does flow a lot more freely these days
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it was more of a change of heart than an out and out lie.
Ahhh............I get it. It's a lie when we don't agree and it's a change of heart when we do agree.
Oh Shut up little man
#GMSTRONG
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The book on Haslam has yet to be written, but Chapter One certainly portrays him as a guy in over his head who is scrambling. It's not a very flattering look.
Let's hope he gets it right, as he's not going anywhere for awhile unless federal charges rear their head (which at this juncture I'm doubting, though it remains to be seen).
We may as well give him the benefit of the doubt at this point, though there is a whole lot of doubt.
I agree. We can debat this and that but none of us knows how things played out to cause the shake-up. I will say this, with all the tidbits of information, I am glad we made the changes.
How are Farmer and Pettine going to perform....who knows? All you can do is go by what you read, and so far most of the feedback is both guys will be good at what they do. I don't think that was the general feeling when we hired Banner and Lombardi. Both had enough history to bring some large question marks.
Pettine is seen as a no nonsense, though minded guy who will demand that from the players on his squad. Farmer is seen a rising star who understands the game and what it takes to be a player in the league.
No doubt Haslam made some mistakes. I can live with that because he has taken steps to correct the mistake. Only time will tell if things have been corrected or if one mistake was replaced by another.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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What happened to the "he lied to us" argument that you were tearing up about? Just wondering..
No argument...I don't see a similar occurrence. Sheiner was here doing basically the business end as Banner wished to spread his wings.
Farmer was here basically at the Personnel end as Lombardi...well who knows what he did?
I see both staying here with CONTINUITY. The firing of Chud and Staff was a blow up...and the reaction was valid to most of us. This firing didn't come with a search and a new start...this came with the guys who were handling a very big chunk of the responsibilities from the two fired. Really the big change is Banner with supreme leadership to Haslam taking over the reigns.
But I hope that answers your question from the emotional outrage before to the reactions of the recent firings. And lets not BS either...quite frankly many really liked Chud and the Staff while not many embraced themselves to Banner/Lombardi and much much less now that we read a lot of their dysfunctional leadership. Possibly the guy getting hardly any love is Lombardi but he might have had a bit to do with the Chud Firing along with Banner so they made their bed.
as always jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'm sorry, but I don't see how 2 people surviving their 1 season here and now stepping into new roles indicates that there's any semblance of continuity.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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The Modell Method: When you're losing, fire everybody and bring in new guys to give the fans HOPE. If the winning doesn't start happening right away fire them too and re-create that HOPE. Modell ran this team by feeding the fans HOPE. We lived and breathed on that HOPE. There was always HOPE. Just as the Draft has become the biggest part of the season for us Browns fans because of the HOPE we get in bringing in new players, bringing in new coaches also brings us HOPE so we starve for it every two years. We've been fed HOPE for so long I think most fans want that HOPE rather than wins because they know HOPE feels good, they have no idea what winning feels like.
Randy ran this team in that same method. Instill new HOPE but when the winning didn't come right away and the HOPE diminished he jumped in and created more HOPE by bringing in new guys.
Wow
Pretty much says it all.
Glad I don't see all the jr. enabling I had to endure for all those years. That was painful..
Without elite level QB play you really have no hope. Bernie and Brian is it for the past 50 years. Not sure if all of you would even consider them elite. Bernie was for a few years. But, he took such a beating. Those were the days of league sanctioned cheap shots, and the stealroids were masters of it.
For those of you that are worried that Haslam is going to be a Jerry or Dan, I don't think so. I think the past year shows that he wants to remain in the background - he wants to be more like you describe a Rooney type of owner. I think the Banner, Lombardi, etc.... thing isn't in anyway the vision he had a year ago. I'm glad he got back in and made the changes he has.
Including Pettine
But, I do agree with the comment that it was nice to finally watch a team that could stop the run.
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Vers...I don't get this. Quote:
Quote:
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it was more of a change of heart than an out and out lie.
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Ahhh............I get it. It's a lie when we don't agree and it's a change of heart when we do agree.
Why does this have to be a lie? His intention seems to have been he would like continuity. But...given circumstances that was not what was happening. Now should he have left it alone, just because? No, I don't think so.
Example: Say I've told everybody I know that I'm tired of always trading in a car for another one. This time I'm gonna buy one and keep it for years cause I'm tired of change. Well, I buy one. One year down the road and I already had it in the shop several times and now a wheel keeps coming off. So, I get rid of this one and start looking for another one. But....All my friends now start calling me a liar and said I was gonna buy just One More Car. But Nooo, I had to sell this one and looking to buy another one. Am I a liar, or did circumstances beyond my control cause this to happen? I'm with Jimmy on this one. He saw no win and made changes to get this thing right ASAP. I support him for that.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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totally up to you jf...by the way what role changed with Sheiner the president? He was promoted to...ummm president.
Farmer by the way had some Asst. GM moniker to him. Not a norm pretty much a GM in training.
But the fact is Farmer did not have to study our players to find out who they are and what we need. If you cannot see the continuity factor its ok, but hope you don't mind if I see it 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I agree and that's a good analogy... probably better than the one I was going to use about the guy who has been married 5 times and believed every one of them was going to last forever. 
yebat' Putin
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I just don't like people calling others liars. My Dad hated that word. It's not like JH just started throwing people out left and right. After reading much of what went on behind the scenes, it seems like he really did not have much choice. Who would want to stay the course with such discontent?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Legend
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Maybe you don't get it because I wasn't calling anyone a liar, but was simply repeating what Daman said.
I do thank all of you who answered. That was nice.
Here is what I think:
Most of you who were freaking out and crying and whining about how you were lied to and crying about continuity did so because you hated Banner and Lombardi and were looking for reasons to slam them.
When the tables turned and those two were fired, you were not outraged that you were "lied to" [your words, not mine] and didn't mention the continuity thing at all, because you hated both of those guys and wanted them gone.
Basically.........what I am saying is that I think most of you were full of crap when you freaked out after the Chud firing and I think you are pretty much full of crap now.
Have a nice day.
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Legend
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Quote:
I just don't like people calling others liars.
Me either, unless it's true. Which in this case, I'm almost 100% certain it's not.
I hate it when people change their mind due to changing circumstances or new information and then are called liars.. that's NOT lying. Lying involves the intent to deceive, I honestly believe JH planned on having the old group around for a long time.. I'm certain he now wants to keep this group around for a long time and I'm sure that barring something strange, we will have this group for at least 3 years...
This is just my opinion, but I think there is a decent chance that if JH had it to do over again, he would consider firing Banner/Lombardi, and giving Chud and his staff a little more time. I think firing Chud was Banner/Lombardi's idea, they talked JH into doing it, maybe to buy themselves more time, get a staff in their that they could control better, I don't know.... I think it was only after Chud and the staff were gone that JH really started to get feedback on what the real problem was...
Maybe I'm biased because I thought we had a good staff but a very questionable FO... as much as I tried to convince myself and others that it would work out.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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From your posts, I presume that you and bleeds were NOT calling Haslam a liar after Chud was fired?
Any reason why you two didn't call out the huge numbers of posters who did call him a liar at the time?
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Possibly because they have some civility and are not always looking to start a fight?
Just guessing.....
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Well, they jumped on it this time.
Just saying..........
Btw----didn't you say you were not going to be around after Chud was fired? I really did miss you.
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Quote:
Most of you who were freaking out and crying and whining about how you were lied to and crying about continuity did so because you hated Banner and Lombardi and were looking for reasons to slam them.
When the tables turned and those two were fired, you were not outraged that you were "lied to" [your words, not mine] and didn't mention the continuity thing at all, because you hated both of those guys and wanted them gone.
My perspective is a little different than yours. When Chud was fired continuity was lost. Kinda like losing virginity. But by the time Banner & Lombardi were fired there were no cries of losing continuity because there was no continuity. It had already been screwed.
#gmstrong
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So, there is absolutely no value to the personal feelings posters had in regards to Banner and Lombardi?
You know what, bro............I will let this go and perhaps I should have never brought it up, but to paraphrase MLK, to ignore is to advocate.
I just found the treatment of the FO to be incredibly unfair and biased. Now, I will allow you guys to have this thread back, so you can celebrate the firing of two men and tell yourselves that we are in such better hands.
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No, what I said was I would not spend my money again on this team until they started winning. I also said I would not be around as much but that I would still drop in occasionally.
But I must say I find that getting rid of Lombardi may have softened my position. I always thought he was more of a Belichick butt-boy than a FO guy. And by that I mean I think he'd have done anything, including screwing the Browns, to impress Billy B. Plus I have no doubt he was feeding Bill as much info as he could whenever he could.
Banner I could have lived with as long as Haslam reigned in his power. But I'm certainly not sad that he's gone. Guys that always think they're the smartest guy in the room seldom are. And the "cap guru" tagline is really kinda worthless. I'm betting that with a week to study all the cap rules and some research on past contracts you or I could become a "cap guru".
Last edited by crazyotto55; 02/17/14 08:36 PM.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
So, there is absolutely no value to the personal feelings posters had in regards to Banner and Lombardi?
I didn't say that Vers, nor did I allude to it.
We were addressing continuity. Once you spoil continuity you cannot spoil it again until it has developed. Continuity certainly didn't develop between December and February.
Maybe you and I are viewing it from two different perspectives. I viewed continuity as the football side of the business continuing over a period of time, hopefully long enough to build a winning organization.
I think you are breaking it down into two parts: continuity in the FO/continuity in the coaching staff. Looking at it In that regard I guess you're right.
Losing the coaching staff for "lack of progress" bummed me out because I liked that coaching staff. They are the ones relating directly to the players. Changing that changes everything from an "on the field" perspective.
I wasn't bummed when the FO was let go because I felt that the continuity, from my perspective, had already been broken and that the FO played a huge role in the "lack of progress" for which the HC was fired and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
So in the end, once I really think about it, I guess I didn't bitch about firing the FO or losing the continuity of the FO because I didn't like their methods and that they played a major role in the reasons cited for why the coaching staff was let go.
(Yes, I know that technically the only one who was fired was the HC, but if anyone thinks Norv and Horton were willing to stick around and deal with the FO that played him dirty, and Norv had plenty to say about that in the aftermath, I think they're fooling themselves.)
I felt that if we're going to start over by ridding ourselves of people detrimental to the team then lets rid ourselves of all those people detrimental to the team.
Now they are all gone.
I feel better that it was done in fairness with all involved in the mess were let go rather than keeping half the mess to continue.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
totally up to you jf...by the way what role changed with Sheiner the president? He was promoted to...ummm president.
Farmer by the way had some Asst. GM moniker to him. Not a norm pretty much a GM in training.
But the fact is Farmer did not have to study our players to find out who they are and what we need. If you cannot see the continuity factor its ok, but hope you don't mind if I see it
I just think continuity means more than promoting two first year employees who managed to survive another purge. I know you like to keep a positive outlook on things, but I'm having a hard time with the current situation. We have another new inexperienced coaching staff along with an inexperienced gm. There's nothing different about this crew going into this season than what we've had in the past. I really had my hopes up that we were finally on the road to some stability with Chud and Norv, but low and behold we have another total rebuild. I will not be optimistic until I see numbers in the W column.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Quote:
From your posts, I presume that you and bleeds were NOT calling Haslam a liar after Chud was fired?
Any reason why you two didn't call out the huge numbers of posters who did call him a liar at the time?
I don't have the history, maybe somebody wants to look it up.. my opinion, and I'm pretty sure I said something to this effect, was that I didn't think he was lying... I was shocked at first, came to grips and understood it, and moved on...
I will call people out from time to time if they say something I believe is untrue, but I'm not going to make it a point to say it to every single person who agrees with them.. No point in that..
yebat' Putin
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