But I do think there is a chance once the hype settles and its time for the football people to make their decisions and picks. Bridgewater is gone...but then Bortles and JM drop (although I think the odds of getting past the Vikings who seem more desperate than us???) but they both could drop out of the top 10...JM cause he is under 6' and the NFL just doesn't draft sub 6' QBs early. Bortles cause he is so raw.
Then what happens do we package 26 n 35 to move and get one of the QBs?
As for Garappolo - QBs with game actually have a tendency to climb up the draft boards.
A lot will be determined by how fast the top 3 guys go. If they drop like the above scenario then so does Garappolo. I mean if you listened to the hype last year Gino Smith was going Early in the First round. You cannot trust the Hype. Use to be these guys got it spot on by the week before the draft. Not their first couple of Mocks but by investigating they got pretty good at top 10 stuff.
I think GMs and teams in general are getting good at the leaking stuff so that they have not been as accurate the last couple of years as in the past.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I wanted to poke a small hole in the theory that all we need is "one of the top guys". For one, draft position is no guarantee of success - at all. Some could argue that it gives you a better chance, but that is probably a very slim margin at that. Second, we still need to surround the guy with talent, and finally, we need to use him in a way that compliments his strengths and minimizes the things he isn't good at.
It's all kinda "Captain Obvious" type statements, I think, but it's the point that trading up to get "one of the top guys" is no magic bullet. Not by a long stretch.
The chances of the top qb selected becoming a quality starter is about 60%. The chances of a qb taken in the 1st is about 40%.. The chances of any qb taken later doing anything of substance is infinitesimally smaller than either of those for good reason.
If a guy falls for silly reasons (generally height) like Brees or Wilson you have better odds. The thing that startles me most is Nick Foles. Why he has succeeded and why he fell in the draft is beyond me. It could be the formula for finding a good QB has fundamentally changed and now you can start snagging guys later in the draft, but the first guy off the board was typically a tried and true method of finding success.
The only top guy we ever drafted was Couch in a pretty lousy year for QBs. Barring a trade up we only ever really skipped drafting Roethlisberger and Rodgers as our two mistakes/misses. Outside of those two guys and drafting McNabb instead of Couch we have never had a chance at a quality QB in the top of the draft. Unless we are planning to rely on getting lucky with a Wilson/Foles/Brady type player we need to take a shot at Bridgewater/Manziel. (I strongly favor bridgewater but I'm a simpleton )
I'm just stating the "profiling" on QBs and justifying the investment.
Will the success of Wilson be enough to change everyone pattern from history.
the only 6 foot even QB I think taken in the first was Vick and he had some sick skill sets.
Its not my snobbery. Its the NFL as in NEVER 1/4 inch or not...NEVER have they - I'm a JM at #4 guy (unless Teddy is there) but when I think real hard...ouch...I start saying this is the hype - I want the kid but what if he will be there at 26 and the hype is just that hype. The NFL people will have in in later rounds. I think right before the draft week of...they had Rodgers dropping fast cause they started to catch wind from the sources. The Bozo's speculate but they also dig hard for loose lips anywhere.
thats all I'm saying I won't be too shocked if he drops.
Of course reports were that Vikings were gaga over him and heck they took Ponder
jmh brain fart
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: We had a shot at Ben. I won't count Tannehill though we had a shot at him. Can't think of who else, though I am sure there were a couple. But not many.
Well, we passed on Kaepernick, we passed on Russell Wilson multiple times, we passed on Tony Romo any number of times, we passed on Drew Brees in the draft and then made no attempt to go get him in FA, we passed on Aaron Rodgers...
I'm not saying we could have or should have known that any of them were going to be as good as they are, just saying that we drafted, at least once, when all of them were on the board.
We passed on Big Ben and Rodgers and took receivers, just like many want to do yet again.
And we are not in this position every year. We have the fourth overall pick and a plethora of picks in a draft where there are three legit franchise qbs available.
I am not guaranteeing their success, but we are not in this position every year.
Quote: We have the fourth overall pick and a plethora of picks in a draft where there are three legit franchise qbs available.
So which is it?
If all 3 are gone by our pick, did we "pass up" on them? If Teddy and JM are gone and Bortles is there, and we pass up on him because maybe they don't believe in him, is that wrong?
To say we're passing up on Ben and Rodgers, two of the best QBs in the league, is quite a reach, and I LIKE Teddy... But cut and dry statements like that are silly..
And yeah, I was quoting you this time...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
verse, have you seen the other thread about top 4?
i think your misunderstanding the WR at #4.
almost everybody on this board wants teddy or Johnny at #4. but in the case that it DOESN'T HAPPEN, as is they get drafted before its our turn, than getting the best playmaker, which a lot of people including myself is Watkins, is the next best thing.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
You said there are 3 "legit franchise QBs" in the draft...
My first point is, you don't know that, all 3 of them could bomb out...
My second point is that just because we don't take one of them, doesn't mean we failed... Because, again, we pick 4th. and by your own words, they are LEGIT FRANCHISE QBS... So, who's ganna pass on them?
I don't lump all three guys together and say GIVE ME ONE OF THEM..
I value them at different spots... Teddy I'd trade up for, Johnny I'd take at 4, and Bortles I might trade back or trade the 26 up for... Maybe...
If not, I look at Watkins, Clowney, maybe an OT, or trade down...
Can you follow that?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
After Bridgewater beefing up, I think he and Carr are the 2 future stud QBs. Love Manziel but 207pounds and under 6 foot is just to big of a risk for me. I think seeing him standing there with Carr Bortles and Bridgewater put an image in my brain i cant get out. Would love to see him in a Browns uniform but I would not do it, if that makes sense. If we were to take him i would be woo ho but o man hope that is right.
Garoppollo is soo intriguing but the funny thing is he reminds me of what I saw from Hoyer last year. Quick release, nice movement within the pocket, accuracy not a big time arm but good enough.
Carr i feel will stud out but he needs a year of learning
With Garappolo you wont understand how good he really is till you have watched several games. He is very accurate but same time he is not scared to take some chances.
His pump fakes though are just sooooo deadly. Combining it with his extremely fast throwing motion he can force defenders to react whether they want to or not. He does it so easily and naturally it just boggles the mind.
To me they try to get Bridgewater even if they have to move up. If that is simply not going to happen they need to trade down and then get Jimmy.
So much talent in this draft. Trading down and picking up second round picks could make us a great team over night.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
"To me they try to get Bridgewater even if they have to move up. If that is simply not going to happen they need to trade down and then get Jimmy." =====================================================
Bridgewater is the proper play. If they were to move back it would have to be an attractive offer. It would depend on the picks offered and how far back it would move them. Really like Watkins but this a deep receiver class. Lots to consider. But priority numero uno is the QB and Bridgewater is the man.
Latest media comment on Bridgewater: "He is the most NFL ready".
Doesn't that make him the best? Is that not what all these prospects are trying to be? NFL ready.
Quote: Latest media comment on Bridgewater: "He is the most NFL ready".
Doesn't that make him the best? Is that not what all these prospects are trying to be? NFL ready.
That makes him Brady Quinn..
I do not think that makes him the best, it means that in that person's opinion, he will be the best on opening day next year, it doesn't mean that he will be the best 3 or 5 years from now as others may be a little more raw but have more upside.
I'm not so sure that he's a for sure solution at QB. There are questions about his pocket presence and maturity that may significantly shorten his career. I think taking a guy in the 3rd or 4th round to develop behind Hoyer is a valid frame of thought if BPA is a position of need in another position at the 4th pick, say WR or OL.
I like Hoyer's potential as a WCO type QB with an offense heavy on pre snap reads, timing throws, and such. However, it is all potential at this point.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I know I'm torn on Hoyer too. I'd hate to waste a first round pick on a QB just to have Hoyer light it up and take us to the playoffs; or even worse be one weapon on offense away from a Super Bowl with a first round QB on the bench...
However if Hoyer was a flash in the pan or is good as hell but gets hurt easily, what do you do if you don't have that quality QB on the bench... we already know the answer to that one.
BUT I do think this gives us a reason to justify taking a later round QB and using the two first rounders on offensive play makers. So IMHO this draft has many, many options for Farmer and company to choose from and a lot of it is because Hoyer is on the roster.
Good luck on predicting where any of these prospects will be in 3 to 5 years.
Your first comment is not true.. you can be NFL ready as in able to step in and play at the Chad Henne level, which by your definition, makes you NFL ready.. or you can be less refined than that but have physical tools that give you much more upside.. NFL ready is a saying that applies solely to a guys ability to play on day 1..
As for the second comment, isn't that what the draft is all about? Figuring out how these guys project into your 3 and 5 year plan? You are right that is very speculative but some people are a lot better at it than others so there is a lot more to it than luck.
I like most fans on here am a Hoyer guy. I saw enough of him last year that makes me want to see more of what he can do. With that being said though we can't put all of our eggs in his basket just yet. We need to draft a QB whether its at #4, #26, #35 or #71. We can't go into this season with just him and Campbell.
I want Farmer to a take a QB that him and the coaching staff are 100% confident in.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
Good reply, way to keep the conversation moving in a positive direction.
And you know now why I put him on my ignore list. When we get passed the NFL Draft, I might take him back off that list. I'm not sure. I might have to keep him there until Training Camp.
Hoyer was certainly throwing some dimes in that video. I love Hoyer and want him to succeed for us.
If Hoyer is our starting QB for sure then there is no other option besides drafting Sammy Watkins, if he is there, at pick four. If he is not there you trade down and take one of the other bajillion good wide receivers in this draft (Evans, my personal favorite Marquise Lee, Benjamin, etc.).
Quote: The question is whether you need to spend a first round pick on getting the quality QB. Otherwise, I agree with your sentiment.
IF the coaching staff and FO believes there is a franchise QB to be had at #4, are we in a position we can afford not to take him?
I personally don't think so.
Sure you can. I still don't get the term 'franchise QB' in regards to the NFL Draft.
If you think that one of those available QBs is the best player and will help your team, then you certainly could do so - and should. If that's not the case, or you don't know if it's the case or not, you don't just take one because the perception by others is that you need to draft a QB.
Just some things watching in that video that I really liked. 1. Probably the quickest deepest drops of any QB I've seen here since 1999! Very Montana like.
2. He sold screens with a plan...I think we saw more successful screens in that 2.25 game hi-lights then I think I remember in the last 3-5 years prior.
3. He took advantage of the miss matches in the Red Zone.
He did too many things well to say well its only 2 games we don't know. Never the less I think its only smart to invest in a QB from the draft. #4 or wherever. Develop him and if Hoyer turns out to be a stud aka Drew Brees. So be it...it will not be a waste. No team ever said: " Oh no - we got two Franchise QBs, man that sucks"
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
My problem : When is the last time our Browns had a competent coaching staff and FO ?? I you sold on this new outfit already ? You can go back to 99 and get the drafts from Our board and compare them with what the Team actually did , and cry !
Quote: My problem : When is the last time our Browns had a competent coaching staff and FO ?? I you sold on this new outfit already ? You can go back to 99 and get the drafts from Our board and compare them with what the Team actually did , and cry !
No, I'm not sold on this FO or coaching staff. To me, there isn't enough of a resume' on this group to draw a conclusion. Unlike the past one whose resume' and history caused me much concern.
But the bottom line is, that is the group leading this draft. It is the hand we have been dealt. People differ on which QB they like. I believe Bridgewater is a complete QB and is the only one I would consider in the top 5 of this draft.
But that's not the issue here. We have people in charge of this draft and most know we need a QB. Yes Hoyer put up a couple of decent games, but nothing you can stake your future on.
So what would you propose? We draft the QB that Green Bay feels is the best QB in this draft? Like they would tell us?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I feel mostly the same way,. I hope that these guys are up to the challenge, but they have limited track records being the powers that be.
Farmer has an extensive resume in pro player matters, but not so much in drafting players. Hopefully he's an undiscovered star. He seems to be well respected, so hopefully there is cause for that respect. However, only time will tell what we really have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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