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I think we're a little early in the process for that.
Firstly my understanding is that they're calling for new elections. If that's the case, there really isn't a new government installed to deal with is there?
There is an interim government. The parliament remained largely intact with a number of Yanukovych's pro-Russian party resigning. Many of them out of disgust with their own party, others out of solidarity with it.
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And what do we know about those who will be in charge? I think you first have to know with who you're dealing with and what it is exactly they stand for before you make any such actions.
We know that they want closer ties with the West, particularly the EU. It was mostly about economic ties to freer economies in Europe (excluding Russia) than with Russia's corrupted economy controlled by Putin.
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If history has taught us anything, it may be that we should be more careful about who we align ourselves with.
I'm not sure what you mean with this comment. It seems that you might be alluding to Arab tyrants and less-than-reputable people. Well, less-than-reputable, describes Putin & his puppet Yanukovych to a tee.
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JMHO
Do you have something against people that are seeking freedom? Would you recommend a return to a divided Germany? A return to the Iron Curtain? It seems that you do. The Ukrainian revolt, if equated to anything, should be equated to the fall of the Berlin Wall and German Reunification, the Velvet Revolution (Czechoslovakia's civil break-up), Poland's and Hungary shedding communism.
Allowing Russian exertion would be synonymous with the good men doing nothing and allowing evil to prevail.
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~ Legend
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Hahaha what a load of crock crap up and down. I know Anarchy has me on ignore and other people who don't read The Blaze daily/ believe that Russia has a word for "Freedom", but if someone could kindly quote some of my posts and see what he says it'd be greatly appreciated.
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Legend
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he has me on ignore as well, so i'm no help either.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
Do you have something against people that are seeking freedom? Would you recommend a return to a divided Germany? A return to the Iron Curtain? It seems that you do. The Ukrainian revolt, if equated to anything, should be equated to the fall of the Berlin Wall and German Reunification, the Velvet Revolution (Czechoslovakia's civil break-up), Poland's and Hungary shedding communism.
Way to jump to a strawman and begging the question fallacies
The Strawman Fallacy:
Quote:
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
Begging the question fallacy:
Quote:
Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the following form.
Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
Claim C (the conclusion) is true.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true."
Some cases of question begging are fairly blatant, while others can be extremely subtle.
Would you like some chalkboards to illustrate your point, pictures of Obama/Marx, and random words that spell predetermined acronyms?
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All Pro
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Ukraine Just The Latest Example of Obama’s Limited Global Influence From Kiev to Kabul to Cairo, the U.S. president is a frustrated bystander Russia’s escalating intervention in Ukraine once again confronts Barack Obama with a foreign policy crisis over which his options are painfully limited, forcing him into a reactive posture that relies on tough, but largely hollow rhetoric. Appearing on short notice in the White House briefing room yesterday, Obama warned Russian president Vladimir Putin that “there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine.” Within hours, Putin had requested and received from Russia’s parliament the authority to use force in its western neighbor, whose capital city Kiev saw an uprising against Moscow last month. Putin appears to have calculated that the benefits of maintaining control of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula, home to a large ethnic Russian population and a major naval base, would outweigh any costs that Obama and the West can impose. He’s probably right. The prospect of a U.S. or NATO military response is roughly nil. The West has limited, if any, economic leverage over Russia. In fact, the leverage may work in the opposite direction as Russia is a major oil exporter at a time of already-high crude prices. Rhetorical shaming? Putin has endured months of it over his support of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad, without budging from his position. Western support for Putin’s domestic opposition would likely undermine its recipients and allow Putin to dismiss all protest as foreign intervention. So Obama is left to issue tough statements and place overseas phone calls, to little likely effect. By now it’s a familiar story—and a particularly frustrating one, given the American public’s unrealistically high expectations for presidential problem-solving. Consider several other crises that have left him stumped: In Syria, Obama stubbornly refuses to wade more than ankle-deep into the bloody fight against al-Assad’s regime. He doubts whether the U.S. can influence the course of the war and worries that the risks of action—including an Iraq-style quagmire—outweigh the costs of inaction. His critics argue that he’s wrong about that, a debatable proposition. But the practical result is Obama’s pursuit a diplomatic solution that has gone nowhere, along with rhetorical condemnations of Putin, who supports Assad, that achieve nothing. In Afghanistan, president Hamid Karzai refused to sign a carefully negotiated agreement that would allow a residual U.S. military force in his country after 2014, saying he would leave that decision to his successor, who will be chosen in elections this spring. Obama has threatened that such a delay might require scrapping plans for a residual force. But with the stability of the Afghan government uncertain and al-Qaeda operatives just across the border in Pakistan, he wants to avoid a total withdrawal. Lacking any real leverage over an Afghan leader who seems willing to let the Americans exit for good, Obama endures Karzai’s bluster and false accusations, while letting his deadline slide for deciding on a full withdrawal. And in Egypt, Obama has largely been a spectator to that country’s ongoing political turmoil. His condemnations of a July 2013 coup—though he won’t actually use the word—hasn’t rattled the generals in Cairo, whose military aid he can’t bring himself to sever. Meanwhile, bolstered by financial and political support from wealthy Arab neighbors, Egypt’s military regime has ignored U.S. pleas for restraint and waged a brutal crackdown. Libya, Iraq, Sudan — all are places where terrible things happen that the U.S. can do little about. Obama’s critics say he’s been risk-averse, reactive and lacking vision. But even they would have to concede that American power is not what it was before two costly foreign wars and a budget-wrecking economic crisis. The result is a frustrated president whose foreign policy often amounts to tough statements which fall on deaf ears. The world is laughing at Obama from Afghanistan to Iran and Syria and especially Putin, China and North Korea. Read more: Russia's Ukraine Intervention: What Can Obama Do Except Stand By? | TIME.com http://swampland.time.com/2014/03/01/ukraine-obama-influence-russia/#ixzz2uoPZFPbd
GO BROWNS!
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you have something against people that are seeking freedom? Would you recommend a return to a divided Germany? A return to the Iron Curtain? It seems that you do. The Ukrainian revolt, if equated to anything, should be equated to the fall of the Berlin Wall and German Reunification, the Velvet Revolution (Czechoslovakia's civil break-up), Poland's and Hungary shedding communism.
Way to jump to a strawman and begging the question fallacies
The Strawman Fallacy:
Quote:
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
Begging the question fallacy:
Quote:
Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the following form.
Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
Claim C (the conclusion) is true.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true."
Some cases of question begging are fairly blatant, while others can be extremely subtle.
Would you like some chalkboards to illustrate your point, pictures of Obama/Marx, and random words that spell predetermined acronyms?
And neither applies to my questions to you. Nice dig at me with a Glenn Beck reference. I haven't listened to Glenn Beck since his sabotaging of Debra Medina years ago.
You see, you can't answer the questions honestly because if you did, you'd be shown for what you are.
I had you on ignore, and I'm not sure how you got off of it. Anyhow, you're going back there.
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There is an interim government. The parliament remained largely intact with a number of Yanukovych's pro-Russian party resigning. Many of them out of disgust with their own party, others out of solidarity with it.
So we have no idea who will ultimately be in charge and what their true philosophy will be.
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We know that they want closer ties with the West, particularly the EU. It was mostly about economic ties to freer economies in Europe (excluding Russia) than with Russia's corrupted economy controlled by Putin.
From my understanding they're looking for an economic bailout. I believe it may be wise not to ignore the fact they overthrew a democratically elected government.
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I'm not sure what you mean with this comment. It seems that you might be alluding to Arab tyrants and less-than-reputable people. Well, less-than-reputable, describes Putin & his puppet Yanukovych to a tee.
And if you look at it from their perspective, we've been trying to control that part of the world by installing and supporting puppet governments that have hurt many of the very people we say we are trying to protect. From a global perspective, we aren't really any better than some we tend to cast stones at.
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Do you have something against people that are seeking freedom? Would you recommend a return to a divided Germany? A return to the Iron Curtain? It seems that you do. The Ukrainian revolt, if equated to anything, should be equated to the fall of the Berlin Wall and German Reunification, the Velvet Revolution (Czechoslovakia's civil break-up), Poland's and Hungary shedding communism.
Allowing Russian exertion would be synonymous with the good men doing nothing and allowing evil to prevail.
So when people topple democratically elected government whom we don't believe in, we should do what exactly? We got pulled into WW2 when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. We didn't just join willy nilly as some band of freedom fighters.
This isn't nearly as black and white as you make it sound. I guess for some it may be. But that's how we've gotten into some of our biggest messes over the last 50 years or so.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You must live in the bowls of American academia ! 
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jc
Personally I think it's time to let the rest of the world take care of themselves, with exception to our strongest allies. IF the people in those countries want change let them fight it out. If they become enemies or threats, drop the hammer; but until then let them work it out. We would get much more respect.
Personally I think Russia gets demonized. I have Russian, Polish and Middle Eastern friends that I play games and interact with online and we talk a lot about life there. They have different views and values; yet they all have the same basic human desires of a good happy life, raising children, working and living in peace. Most of them are quite content in their lives, so who are we to dictate how they live?
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Glad to know our President in on top of things. Obama skips National Security Team meeting on Russian Invasion of Ukraine, gets debriefed by the same Susan Rice who's widely criticized for her Benghazi comments/actions: http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/118643-u...vasion-ukraine/ 
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Glad to know our President in on top of things.
Obama skips National Security Team meeting on Russian Invasion of Ukraine, gets debriefed by the same Susan Rice who's widely criticized for her Benghazi comments/actions:
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/118643-u...vasion-ukraine/
You mean he got debriefed by his national security advisor !? On matters of national security !? The outrage!
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 03/02/14 01:18 PM.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Quote:
Quote:
Glad to know our President in on top of things.
Obama skips National Security Team meeting on Russian Invasion of Ukraine, gets debriefed by the same Susan Rice who's widely criticized for her Benghazi comments/actions:
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/118643-u...vasion-ukraine/
You mean he got debriefed by his national security advisor !? On matters of national security !? The outrage!
Perhaps a better question is: Where was he?
If he can't attend a national security meeting - WHY can't he? Where was he?
Was Susan Rice in attendance? I would hope so - but if the white house calendar shows nothing for Obama for that time frame - where was he?
Um, isn't he the leader of our country? Isn't he the one that told Russia there could be grave circumstances for doing what they're doing?
And he can't make a meeting with the national security team?
It does seem odd, doesn't it? I mean, apparently even Biden was able to video teleconference this meeting.
Perhaps the question should be: Exactly WHERE was the president during the meeting?
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Glad to know our President in on top of things.
Obama skips National Security Team meeting on Russian Invasion of Ukraine, gets debriefed by the same Susan Rice who's widely criticized for her Benghazi comments/actions:
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/118643-u...vasion-ukraine/
You mean he got debriefed by his national security advisor !? On matters of national security !? The outrage!
Perhaps a better question is: Where was he?
If he can't attend a national security meeting - WHY can't he? Where was he?
Was Susan Rice in attendance? I would hope so - but if the white house calendar shows nothing for Obama for that time frame - where was he?
Um, isn't he the leader of our country? Isn't he the one that told Russia there could be grave circumstances for doing what they're doing?
And he can't make a meeting with the national security team?
It does seem odd, doesn't it? I mean, apparently even Biden was able to video teleconference this meeting.
Perhaps the question should be: Exactly WHERE was the president during the meeting?
Well there is another significant question you've missed all together Arch;
WHO CARES?
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Only as odd as you make it out to be.  The rest is j/c Only NATO and the European countries are actually close enough in terms of logistics to even begin to make a military threat. So no need to even go there. Russian logistics would be a nightmare. Much of Crimea's water and electricity comes from and is supplied by the rest of Ukraine. Holding onto Crimea makes no sense in the grand scheme of things. The reports I find confusing as is the case with early reports on many such things. One report claims the Russians have prevented Ukrainian troops from leaving the base in Crimea, while yet another report says the commanding officer on the base is refusing to surrender it to Russian troops. And it was the leader in Crimea who requested Russia to come there. Another fine mess in yet another portion of the world.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The world is laughing at Obama from Afghanistan to Iran and Syria and especially Putin, China and North Korea. But we have Obamacare, so let em laugh.  
GO BROWNS!
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Legend
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I have no problem with staying out of it, but if you're going to stay out of it, don't lob warnings.
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I'm old enough to have attended school when they actually taught History ; And I don't mean when Custer was the good guy .. I have memory's of long conversations with folks who were around before and after WW2 .. Thats where my opinions come from ..
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Legend
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Quote:
I have no problem with staying out of it, but if you're going to stay out of it, don't lob warnings.
I agree.
But if you do throw out the warnings, wouldn't it be nice to be able to sit down with your national security team and actually get briefed on exactly what is going on? As a "leader", wouldn't you do that?
Apparently it wouldn't have interrupted a vacation - or a golf outing.
Seriously - we hear all the time about a president, even on vacation - NEVER being out of contact. Yet, here, after our president makes "threats".........he can't even sit down with the national security team to discuss anything?
I guess it's beneath him? Maybe he's more focused on exactly which part of obamacare he'll change next?
Where was he? And yeah - it matters.
If his threats to Russia weren't going to be backed by anything, why make them?
If the u.s. should stay out of this situation (and I think they should from what little I know of it), then why even make threats in the first place?
Where was O when this meeting was going on?
I think some earlier in this thread were right: plausible deniability.
O has a record of only being in "meetings" when the result is suitable for him - otherwise, he's all " I didn't know", or " I didn't order". Hell of a leader there.......
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Where was O when this meeting was going on?
On the phone with Putin, supposedly.
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Quote:
Where was O when this meeting was going on?
On the phone with Putin, supposedly.
I'll believe that when I crap gold bricks.
I can just see it: "okay folks, let's have a national security meeting." "huh? I've called Putin, or he called me?"
"Well, go on with the meeting, I'll be on the phone making threats I'll never back up. Where's that Benghazi lady - maybe after my phone call she can brief me on our national security meeting that I couldn't attend."
Guys a joke - and sadly, just enough believe him.....because God forbid you disagree with him - bam - you're called a racist.
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its too easy for us to get over there if for some reason they wanted US intervention. we have bases in Germany and Italy.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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The world is laughing at Obama from Afghanistan to Iran and Syria and especially Putin, China and North Korea.
But we have Obamacare, so let em laugh.
that makes zero sense.
the world isn't laughing at obama. Fox news told you that huh?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Guys a joke - and sadly, just enough believe him.....because God forbid you disagree with him - bam - you're called a racist.
Is that the new "you just hate Bush"? 
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Legend
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I have no problem with staying out of it, but if you're going to stay out of it, don't lob warnings.
Good Lord ..... I agree with you. 
This one looks like a no win situation to me. I have no idea what I would do if I were President. That said, it makes little sense to me to issue "stern warnings" if you have no intention of doing anything.
That's the quickest route to becoming a paper tiger there is.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
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The world is laughing at Obama from Afghanistan to Iran and Syria and especially Putin, China and North Korea.
But we have Obamacare, so let em laugh.
that makes zero sense.
the world isn't laughing at obama. Fox news told you that huh?
I don't know about that.
I don't watch fox news. Might catch a local fox news (local that is) once every 3 or 4 months.
But when a president makes a threat, then won't even attend his own national security meeting about the threat he made - it really makes me wonder.
If you don't wonder about that - good for you. I understand you are military, and kudo's for that, no doubt. I understand you are all gung ho on obamacare, cause you think it will help you. That's neat. I hope it does.
I also understand you are striving to be in on the 1% (actually, I think you reduced that to a member of the 5%) I hope you make it. I also hope, if you make it to the top 5%, that you remember that you will owe about 40% of what you make, if not more, in taxes - federal, state, local, etc. Buy a house, pay property taxes as well.
And then, as a private company employee - stand back and watch the president make threats he has no intention of following up on, watch him "skip" national security meetings because he feels he's above that..........and then I wonder how you'd feel?
Put it this way - there is no way a chief executive officer of any company says something along the lines of "put up, or shut up" to anyone, and then skips the „—]Ü ng about his st ement, W·ll, n¿
eo worth a turd, that is.
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Quote:
Quote:
The world is laughing at Obama from Afghanistan to Iran and Syria and especially Putin, China and North Korea.
But we have Obamacare, so let em laugh.
that makes zero sense.
the world isn't laughing at obama. Fox news told you that huh?
Your one of the few still buying the baloney of the street corner organizer, oh well ignorance is bliss.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said Obama ought to “stop going on television and trying to threaten thugs and dictators…. Every time the president goes on national television and threatens Putin or anyone like Putin, everybody's eyes roll, including mine. We have a weak and indecisive president that invites aggression.”
House Intelligence Committee chairman Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., said on Fox News Sunday that “Putin is playing chess and I think we are playing marbles, and I don’t think it’s even close. They’ve been running circles around us.” Rogers called Obama’s advisors “naïve” in their thinking about Russia.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine...e-crisis-n42506
GO BROWNS!
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Legend
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Speaking strictly for myself ........
I believe that Russia does have new, expansionist ideas ... and that could be dangerous for some of those countries who just gained their independence not that long ago.
I forget who it was that said that Democracy is messy business, but it's true. It's not easy, especially when you have a country made up of people who are from completely different points of view and ethnic backgrounds. I look at America, and all of the bumps along the way ...... look at the Civil War ..... and man, it's almost a miracle that we got to where we are. Just because we did it doesn't mean that other countries just starting down the path of Democracy, or even pseudo Democracy, will have it any easier.
I wonder how the US and our allies will counter any expansionist ideas Russia may have. I think that we all know that once Russia lands troops in Ukraine, they probably are not leaving anytime soon. (if at all) Once they gain a foothold there, who knows what their next move will be.
Could history repeat itself? Could we see a new Cold War?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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there's no CEO that is the president of the united states.
i think some of you guys are putting this "skipped" meeting too far on the pedestal. i will reserve judgement until we find the reasonings of why. is that not fair?
on top of that, all presidents have advisors that report directly to him. if you want to make the CEO comparison's, which imo is not fair, then not all CEO's go to all the meetings, either.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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so you just posted a nbc article about a fox news broadcast.
i rest my case.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Don't know so much about expansion as they are just trying to maintain the "empire" they once had . There is no way at all Russia let's go of Crimea and more importantly Sevastopol which is their only warm water sub base ... No way at all . I can see them demanding all and settling for just the parts they really want and I can see America grumbling publicly but the end result will be the same . Where I see an interesting twist is IF we stir up the Tartar minority thereby expanding the already troublesome Muslim problem Russia already has . It isn't like we don't have experience doing that . How does China feel about all of this because they have as much or more to fear from an aggressive Russia as we do .
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I think the one thing we're forgetting is that these countries don't want to leave Russia, but hey! ignore the fact that these are democratically elected governments being overthrown because Russia is bad and scary, and obviously wants to expand their "empire" to the countries they...already have?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919 |
Quote:
so you just posted a nbc article about a fox news broadcast.
i rest my case.
Your sad case was rested the day you voted for the looser.
GO BROWNS!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,431
Hall of Famer
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This is all about sphere of influence .. Ours vs theirs and imo Mr.Putin knows he cannot afford to lose real estate this close to Mother Russia .
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877 |
Quote:
I think the one thing we're forgetting is that these countries don't want to leave Russia, but hey! ignore the fact that these are democratically elected governments being overthrown because Russia is bad and scary, and obviously wants to expand their "empire" to the countries they...already have?
Why can't it be viewed as Russia not wanting to lose a country where it has or I could argue adamantly needs to undoubtedly have the largest external influence? With all Putin has had to put up with internally, I think a sustained grassroots tide turning in his neighbor country is one of the last things he'd want.
I'm not saying this what you think, but I objectively feel you are placing Russia more into the role of an innocent in this affair, when, in reality it is anything but.
Bad and scary are improperly placed hyperbole. Paranoid, meddlesome and reactionary I think are proper.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Actually I consider the people of Ukraine as the innocent people here. No one deserves to have their government toppled by fascist revolutionaries for a turf war. There's just a lot of things I don't understand like why people are supporting nazis, why people think Obama not sending US soldiers to intervene makes him weak, and why are we supporting anti-democratic appeals.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
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Hall of Famer
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Do you have something against people that are seeking freedom? Would you recommend a return to a divided Germany? A return to the Iron Curtain? It seems that you do. The Ukrainian revolt, if equated to anything, should be equated to the fall of the Berlin Wall and German Reunification, the Velvet Revolution (Czechoslovakia's civil break-up), Poland's and Hungary shedding communism.
Oh come on. Lighten up. Russia never did anything like this before. 
"My signature line goes here."
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919 |
Quote:
I think the one thing we're forgetting is that these countries don't want to leave Russia, but hey! ignore the fact that these are democratically elected governments being overthrown because Russia is bad and scary, and obviously wants to expand their "empire" to the countries they...already have?
"bad and scary"?
You must have learned that in grade school? 
GO BROWNS!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,472
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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.. " I remember speaking to my grandfather. He fought in WW1 on the side of the Kaiser. At the time, he was a resident of the Austro-Hungarian Empire... "
I envy you ; that must have been fascinating ~
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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j/c
15:37: Russian PM Dmitry Medvedev has discussed the situation in Ukraine in a phone conversation with US Vice-President Joe Biden, the Russian government's press service says, quoted by Interfax.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
Breaking News Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Ukraine on the brink
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