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i'm talking about this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/10/1129918/-Mitt-Romney-wants-20-000-US-troops-back-in-Iraqthis is one of many reasons i didn't vote for romney. so yes, if republicans were back in charge, that would've most likely happened.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Clinton never once had a surplus. He DID have a projected surplus which never came to light. So, the "clinton surplus" crap has got to stop. Add in the housing boom.............tech boom.........yup, sure looked like he had a surplus until you really look at things. Under Clinton, the deficit may have been reduced - but not eliminated........hence, the debt went up even under clinton.
And I'll say this: if people are more worried about the deficit than they are the debt, people are stupid. The debt is killing us. A "lower" deficit doesn't help anything, because it still adds to the debt.
When will this country eliminate the deficit and start working on the debt? Bad things are brewing.
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
Clinton never once had a surplus. He DID have a projected surplus which never came to light. So, the "clinton surplus" crap has got to stop. Add in the housing boom.............tech boom.........yup, sure looked like he had a surplus until you really look at things. Under Clinton, the deficit may have been reduced - but not eliminated........hence, the debt went up even under clinton.
And I'll say this: if people are more worried about the deficit than they are the debt, people are stupid. The debt is killing us. A "lower" deficit doesn't help anything, because it still adds to the debt.
When will this country eliminate the deficit and start working on the debt? Bad things are brewing.
You can't cut any debt if you are running deficits. We can't skip step (A) and get to step (B) here.
We won't achieve either as long as we judge Presidents and Congress by the economy. They will continue to use deficits to prop things up and keep taxes low. Obama and Boehner could demolish the deficit tomorrow, but the economy would tank, everyone would blame them, and voters would run to the guy that promises jobs and lower taxes...via deficits.
2001 was a surplus. Few doubt that. We kicked it away by cutting taxes immediately and issuing stimulus checks. (Like I said above, people voted for the guy that promised to cut taxes, not the guy that said he would pay down debt). Then we doubled spending. The housing bubble helped Clinton's economy, but that has nothing to do with his spending levels. They were much better than the last 13 years. Much better.
***per Ytown's Conservative webpage we had a surplus in 2000 of $236 billion and and $128 billion 2001****** So, there ya go.
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I'm curious which of ytowns posts you are citing.
I have never seen a "surplus".....I've only seen a "forecasted" surplus from the clinton years. Perhaps you can enlighten me, with facts, on this so called "surplus". Not "projected surplus".;.. real surplus. I might be missing something.
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Quote:
I'm curious which of ytowns posts you are citing.
I have never seen a "surplus".....I've only seen a "forecasted" surplus from the clinton years. Perhaps you can enlighten me, with facts, on this so called "surplus". Not "projected surplus".;.. real surplus. I might be missing something.
The OMB seems to disagree, it lists real surpluses in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/hist01z1.xls
Unless I'm misreading something.
The data is copied here in a more readable format (same data as the OMB, so I trust it, even though I've never seen this source);
http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 03/05/14 08:36 PM.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Ukraine is game to us.
Losing game though, they beat us 2-0
#gmstrong
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COULD PUTIN LOSE $40 BILLION IN PERSONAL ASSETS IF U.S. AND EU SANCTIONS GO AHEAD? Despite once claiming to be a 'poorly paid politician' who worked like a 'galley slave', Russian President Vladimir Putin's personal wealth is estimated to be in the billions - with much of it said to be hidden in secret bank accounts outside Russia. Putin and his representatives have long denied rumours of massive wealth, saying there is no evidence, but political insiders and opponents have claimed he may use shell companies, offshore accounts and frontmen to keep his fortune out of the public eye. In a memo revealed by Wikileaks in 2010, former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice claimed Putin has secret 'illicit' assets hidden outside his country and claimed she had been told by Russian opposition figures that he had tried to engineer a safe transition of funds when he stepped down as president in 2008 in order to avoid 'law enforcement investigations'. The Wikileaks cable also recorded a conversation in Washington between the then US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Eurasian Affairs, David Kramar, and an unidentified Russian opposition leader. Mr Kramar was told that Putin was 'nervously seeking to secure his future immunity from potential law enforcement investigations into his alleged illicit proceeds'. In numerous interviews, Russian political analyst Stanislav Belkovsky has estimated Putin's wealth at more than $40 billion - repeatedly stating the Russian President has shares in at least three oil and gas companies, including Surgutneftegas and Gazprom, through offshore trusts. In another leaked cable from 2008, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia John Beyrle is said to have repeated rumours that Putin was financially linked with Swiss trading firm Gunvor. If EU and U.S. sanctions are issued, Putin could lose any money he has secretly invested in banks or businesses in those areas. He is also believed to own at least 20 properties around the world, which alone could total several billion. If his assets, or the assets of his alleged frontmen, are frozen or seized, Putin may also lose these properties. .. Despite the tense stand-off, hopes for a peaceful solution to the Ukraine crisis were raised today after the two countries' ministers began 'high level' talks. Ukraine's new Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk has said his country were taking part in talks with Russia - but gave no further detail. He then reiterated his view that Russia should withdraw forces from the region. The announcement came as Russian President Vladimir Putin said there was currently no need for further violence in Ukraine - but added he reserves the right to use 'all means' to protect Russian speakers in the country. The US president said his Russian counterpart was ‘not fooling anybody’ when he denied sending his troops into the Crimea. Despite clear evidence they were Russian, Mr Putin claims soldiers seen in the peninsula are ‘local forces of self defence’. He cautioned the international community about the potential consequences of any sanctions, saying: ‘In our modern world, everybody depends on everybody. It is possible to harm each other but it will be a mutual harm.’ Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...l#ixzz2vB8YHrrY
GO BROWNS!
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm curious which of ytowns posts you are citing.
I have never seen a "surplus".....I've only seen a "forecasted" surplus from the clinton years. Perhaps you can enlighten me, with facts, on this so called "surplus". Not "projected surplus".;.. real surplus. I might be missing something.
The OMB seems to disagree, it lists real surpluses in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/hist01z1.xls
Unless I'm misreading something.
The data is copied here in a more readable format (same data as the OMB, so I trust it, even though I've never seen this source);
http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php
Interesting.
And then I read this: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/6/clinton-gingrich-and-the-balanced-budget-myth/
I don't have much time right now but I'll look for more info later. It does seem as though there is a dispute about the "surplus" though.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm curious which of ytowns posts you are citing.
I have never seen a "surplus".....I've only seen a "forecasted" surplus from the clinton years. Perhaps you can enlighten me, with facts, on this so called "surplus". Not "projected surplus".;.. real surplus. I might be missing something.
The OMB seems to disagree, it lists real surpluses in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/hist01z1.xls
Unless I'm misreading something.
The data is copied here in a more readable format (same data as the OMB, so I trust it, even though I've never seen this source);
http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php
Interesting.
And then I read this: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/6/clinton-gingrich-and-the-balanced-budget-myth/
I don't have much time right now but I'll look for more info later. It does seem as though there is a dispute about the "surplus" though.
Wouldn't it be nice if the media actually reported the news instead of each outlet having its own agenda, further blurring the truth and keeping us arguing about what is real and isn't?
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Quote:
Wouldn't it be nice if the media actually reported the news instead of each outlet having its own agenda, further blurring the truth and keeping us arguing about what is real and isn't?
I don't disagree with you but with a lot of bigger issues, there is no "truth".. there are some facts that can be extrapolated into theories and speculation.
For example, what is the truth about the economy of the 1990s? How much of it was Clinton? How much was Congress? How much was the tech boom? How much of it was the housing bubble? Who caused the housing bubble? The truth is we had an unprecedented economy for a period of a few years.. why that happened, and why it ended, is speculation based on a number of variables..
yebat' Putin
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OMB isn't really a news organization.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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OMB isn't really a news organization.
I'm just talking about in general.
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Just wondering, if one of our states wanted to secede from our country and become part of another nation, how would you feel about that? Especially if that other country in question brought troops in?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Just wondering, if one of our states wanted to secede from our country and become part of another nation, how would you feel about that? Especially if that other country in question brought troops in?
Then it makes it "our" business, and I am all for the United States dropping money on United States issues/problems and intervening. Being this "world babysitter", where we continue to aide other places that likely hate the United States, at the expense of driving our debt up and hurting us in some fashions, I really think if that is what "they" want, then we just keep our noses outta anything but "our" business.
I realize my views on this matter is perhaps narrow-minded to some, but again, I don't see where it's law that the United States has to stick our noses in everyone's issues/problems. Let Europe handle it.
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Quote:
Just wondering, if one of our states wanted to secede from our country and become part of another nation, how would you feel about that? Especially if that other country in question brought troops in?
are you saying that we can give Michigan to Canada?
#gmstrong
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I would totally agree with you in terms of military actions. But I really have pretty much zero faith that is the case.
I have no problem with having us negotiate, promote sanctions and help in those ways to help try to resolve those issues.
The fact is we do hold the big stick on the world stage and have more influence when we join up with our NATO allies than when they go it alone.
So while it may help to have us involved to some degree, I really don't see what it hurts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I have no problem with having us negotiate, promote sanctions and help in those ways to help try to resolve those issues.
Nor I honestly, but how do you feel, in regards to "trying to resolve issues" - when we send one billion dollars over there?
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Quote:
Just wondering, if one of our states wanted to secede from our country and become part of another nation, how would you feel about that? Especially if that other country in question brought troops in?
Crimean leaders are being held at gun point by Putin puppets.
The better question would be...what would Russia do if we took Cuba by force and held Cuban leaders at gun point until they seceded to the United States?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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When it comes to that, I'm sick of bailing out other countries economies when ours is in shambles.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Exactly my point. I should be mroe clear, I have no problems in the United States intervening when it's a no-cost situation to us. It's when we start shipping off big bundles of aide filled with weapons, money, etc - is where I start to see things differently. 
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Quote:
Just wondering, if one of our states wanted to secede from our country and become part of another nation, how would you feel about that? Especially if that other country in question brought troops in?
I think they'd have to buy/forfeit national properties. Interstates, Federal Buildings, Bases, on and on. I'd want a list of everything/anything that had federal funds or ownership attached and a hard negotiation. If they won't buy it back, we'll charge them rent on every building and tolls on every road. And our property will remain our property. Small town Main Street might actually be American Street, and you'll need to pay to park in front of your house or your car will be seized and auctioned.
Then we'd have to figure out the Social Security and Medicare side of it. Wouldn't be fair, but I'd say the rest of us could simply cut the chord on their entitlements.
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Quote:
Quote:
Just wondering, if one of our states wanted to secede from our country and become part of another nation, how would you feel about that? Especially if that other country in question brought troops in?
I think they'd have to buy/forfeit national properties. Interstates, Federal Buildings, Bases, on and on. I'd want a list of everything/anything that had federal funds or ownership attached and a hard negotiation. If they won't buy it back, we'll charge them rent on every building and tolls on every road. And our property will remain our property. Small town Main Street might actually be American Street, and you'll need to pay to park in front of your house or your car will be seized and auctioned.
Then we'd have to figure out the Social Security and Medicare side of it. Wouldn't be fair, but I'd say the rest of us could simply cut the chord on their entitlements.
If the United States had any LEADERSHIP in the last few years, this would not be a topic. 
GO BROWNS!
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Quote:
If the United States had any LEADERSHIP in the last few years, this would not be a topic.
Yes, God only knows Putin would never have considered doing this if we had a GOP president.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If the United States had any LEADERSHIP in the last few years, this would not be a topic.
Glad to see you over here, Millcreek!
If perceived weakness and lack of leadership are bad for our nation, why are some media outlets and politicians so intent on increasing that perception of weakness?
To me it seems they are creating problems for political gain.
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It is. No GOP president would be seriously considering military action either.
We have been funding other military action and the only people I have seen trying to insinuate such weakness is FOX News and their cronies.
This nation is conquering and dividing itself. I'm sure the globe sees that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I wouldn't call it weakness as much as I would ineptitude.
If you're looking at the last couple decades with Clinton, Bush and Obama, you see far more instances of inept aggression than weakness.
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Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Crimean parliament voted in favor of leaving the country for Russia
... so there you have it. It's what they want, so let's back out fully and mind our own damn business!
It isn't that simple. The Crimean parliament doesn't represent the whole of Ukraine.
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Quote:
If you're looking at the last couple decades with Clinton, Bush and Obama, you see far more instances of inept aggression than weakness.
Which, imo, is weakness of a different sort- .
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Quote:
Quote:
Just wondering, if one of our states wanted to secede from our country and become part of another nation, how would you feel about that? Especially if that other country in question brought troops in?
Crimean leaders are being held at gun point by Putin puppets.
The better question would be...what would Russia do if we took Cuba by force and held Cuban leaders at gun point until they seceded to the United States?
False. Crimea and at least half of Ukraine love Russia.
You know we've tried to take Cuba, right?
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i wouldn't put bush in that group, while i didn't like the guy, he had some tremendous balls to pull that iraq war stunt of his.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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i wouldn't put bush in that group, while i didn't like the guy, he had some tremendous balls to pull that iraq war stunt of his.
Balls, but just ineptitude. Honestly we've been using our military as this weird foreign affair type of role that basically reminds me of Mike Tyson's quote about a guy till he loves him. If you don't like our government, we'll fund a coup and overthrow you. Either way, it's completely screwed up.
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its just...
i dunno, i decided to watch fox news the last few days, and these guys are calling Putin a real leader, like whatever he decides, he executes.
and saying obama isn't a leader because he doesn't do what he says right away.
people forget, the main difference is that putin can do that because he is pretty much a dictator in a communist country, and everything we do has to be a checks and balance to it.
whats crazy, is that the right says obama isn't like putin which is a bad thing, yet they turn around in the same breath and call this guy a a dictator and all that when it comes to other situations.
i know that both parties are screwed up, but when i look at republicans....i just have to laugh.
i'm glad obama hasn't tried to beat the drums of war like the poster anarch is trying to do. not everything on this planet requires military action.
bush didn't try to use military force with georgia, and he was praised for it(rightfully so), but when obama does the same, he's weak?
sorry, but right now i'm with obama on this 100 percent.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Honestly we/EU have supplied the Ukrainian protesters with everything they need and some. It's about time that we let them fight their own battles. We really can't do much more and still look somewhat neutral.
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i'm glad obama hasn't tried to beat the drums of war
Instead he authorizes drone attacks which kill an unidentified number of innocents.
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i wouldn't put bush in that group, while i didn't like the guy, he had some tremendous balls to pull that iraq war stunt of his.
Balls, but just ineptitude.
If Clinton would have pulled the trigger in 1998 on OBL when he had the chance, things would have been very different. Instead, he didn't want to be bothered during his golf game and kicked the can down the road for the next guy who would have to deal with 911.
"My signature line goes here."
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we can play what if games all day.
what if bush didn't ignore the intel that OBL was planning a large scale attack?
maybe thousands of soldiers lives would've been spared.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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