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So I just want to pose this question to the board.
Farmer seems to have a plan and has eluded to already having a QB in mind and also that it might not be who we think it is or necessarily at #4...
What if we spend the first round picks on other players not QB's; who would those players be (picking without trades) and who is the later round QB he might like to fit our offense?
I could see Watkins at #4, but have no idea after that. So let me know what 2 non QB's you see in the first and which QB (realistically there) in a later round.
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In the unlikely event that it goes;
1. Teddy
2. Clowney
3. Manziel
I guess you would have to look at Watkins, Bortles and maybe even Mathews, IMO that would be yet another unfortunate situation but Watkins is a very nice prospect. I pray Manziel or Bridgewater are there and I think despite what Farmer has led you to believe, we would take either of those two guys.
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Quote:
What if we spend the first round picks on other players not QB's; who would those players be (picking without trades)
Removing QBs at #4 and not taking free agency into consideration, I'd think that the following players would be top candidates:
+ Sammy Watkins*
+ Jadeveon Clowney
And thinking outside of the box, I could see these guys as well being on the list:
+Jake Matthews
+Greg Robinson
26 is harder because the combinations of the top 25 are almost endless. I'd guess these guys would all be on the list of potential draftees:
+Darqueze Dennard
+Zack Martin
+Mike Evans
+C.J. Mosley*
+Marqise Lee
+Hasean Clinton-Dix
+Justin Gilbert
+Kelvin Benjamin*
+Cyrus Kouandjio
+RaShede Hageman*
+Odell Beckham*
+Calvin Pryor
+David Yankey*
+Ryan Shazier
+Xavier Su'a-Filo*
+Brandin Cooks
* designates my favorites
Quote:
and who is the later round QB he might like to fit our offense?
this is harder, because Shanahan has had so many different QBs under his tutelage. I could see any of these guys:
+Jimmy Garoppolo (round 2, maybe 3)
+David Fales (round 4-5)
+AJ McCarron (round 3-4)
+Derek Carr (round 2)
+Brett Smith (round 5-6)
+Connor Shaw (round 5-6)
I'd like to see Garoppolo, but I'm going to guess McCarron is Farmer's guy if we don't go QB in round 1.
Right now, I'm going to guess things look like this:
Texans: Bortles
Rams: Watkins
Jags: Manziel
Browns 4: Bridgewater (QB)
Browns 26: Benjamin (WR)
35: Su'a-Filo (OG)
3a: Martavis Bryant (WR)
3b: Stanley Jean-Baptiste (CB)
4a: Shane Skov (ILB)
4b: Charles Sims (RB)
5: Kenny Ladler (FS)
6: Ed Stinson (DE)
7: Justin Britt (OT)
It doesn't fit your scenario though.
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I could see Evans at #4. Possibly Denard. With no trade downs, that's tough. Then Verrett, Clinton-Dix (fingers crossed he's there) or Roberson, or Yankey or Su'a-Filo at 26.
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If we aren't taking a QB at 4 (which I think would be a mistake unless my top 3 went 1-2-3) then I would want us to try and trade down a few spots to pick up a 2nd or 3rd to someone who wants to get ahead of Oakland (for a QB or for Clowney) and take WILB CJ Mosely. Given what's available at the top of the draft I think he would offer the most benefit to our team. I'd strongly consider Marqise Lee with that pick as well and would be my primary backup pick. With the other pick I'd go with Brandin Cooks. I'd take Aaron Murray in the 3rd.
Your scenario, my picks:
1a) WILB CJ Mosely, Alabama (after trade down)
1b) WR Brandin Cooks, Oregon St.
2a) CB Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
2b) OG Gabe Jackson, Mississippi St. (after trade down)
3a) SILB Shayne Skov, Stanford
3b) QB Aaron Murray, Georgia
4a) FS Dion Bailey, USC
4b) RB James White, Wisconsin
5) TE Crockett Gilmore, Colorado State
6) C/OG Corey Linsley, Ohio State
7) WR Chandler Jones, San Diego St.
Django's head would probably explode, lol... 2 ILBs and an OG in the top 70 picks.
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i don't think he views Bortles as a top 5 pick, maybe not even a first rounder. imo, manziel and teddy are the only ones worth a top 5 pick, or even a first round pick.
i really hope they move up in the draft, but if houston and jacksonville aren't willing to trade, then they aren't willing to trade. they need a QB just as bad as we do.
anyway, i think if we don't pick QB at 4, but we stay at 4, we absolutely need to take the best player available on offense, and thats watkins.
it's pretty much a given, unless a player like Wilson lands on our team, Hoyer is going to be the starter. assuming we have Mack back, we have a decent/good pass blocking line. Hoyer has demonstrated during limited time he actually BROUGHT that excitement we've been talking about all year to this team. think about that.
we have the 2nd best WR in the league. we have an All-pro TE. the 2 outside WR are STARTERS, not how other people put it where that WR will only be the 2nd.
jones and White down there in atlanta beg to differ. so adding Watkins, we would have some serious fire power on O. we're talking about Gordon, who can't be covered, Cameron, who can't be covered, and Watkins. who can you double? who do you focus your attention on in the secondary? there's only one legion of Boom. the 30 other teams can't make that happen.
so yea, long drawn out response: Watkins.
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Jake Matthews would be solid, and it would give us someone who could slide over in 6-8 years when Thomas retires.
Khalil Mack might look good inside next to DQ
One of the WR's... Watkins or Evans.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
I think we can have our cake and eat it too, so thinking waaaay outside the box:
-Houston takes Manziel or Clowney,
- We trade (heaven forbid) Joe Thomas and a 3rd rounder to the Rams and pick Teddy Bridgewater
- At #4, we select either Matthews or Robinson
- At #26, we pick best value of: WR, ILB, OG, TE
- 2nd rd, best value of who we didn't pick above, or a CB/FS
- 3rd, Hyde, Dion Bailey (if no FS picked above), or QB (Murray, Garoppolo)
- 4th, Lindner OG, RB
- Rest = pick 'em...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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The Browns MUST get Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles at #4. But, if ther are not an option. Then the only real option is to tarde down once if not twice. Get as many picks as possible in the first 3 rounds. This draft has they most talent in it as we have seen in many years.
One of the top 3 QB's can change a teams fortunes if they are a franchise QB. They can make the Browns a playoff contender for the next decade. No other player offers that upside. The only other trade off is accomulate as much talent as possible out of this draft.
Trade down in the 1st as often as a team is willing to give a 2nd or 3rd round pick in return.
Build a very solid and talented core for the future.
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Anyone who trades Joe T should be shot (only half joking, lol).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Anyone who trades Joe T should be shot (only half joking, lol).
As was I. Although I do not endorse this move, it could present a viable option to get what everybody is clamoring for while giving up only experience at the LT position...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Your scenario, my picks:
1a) WILB CJ Mosely, Alabama (after trade down)
1b) WR Brandin Cooks, Oregon St.
2a) CB Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
2b) OG Gabe Jackson, Mississippi St. (after trade down)
3a) SILB Shayne Skov, Stanford
3b) QB Aaron Murray, Georgia
4a) FS Dion Bailey, USC
4b) RB James White, Wisconsin
5) TE Crockett Gilmore, Colorado State
6) C/OG Corey Linsley, Ohio State
7) WR Chandler Jones, San Diego St.
Django's head would probably explode, lol... 2 ILBs and an OG in the top 70 picks.
That's a nice looking mock with a lot of my favs in it. Liked what I saw from Murray, but haven't seen enough yet. I'd have no problem taking an OG and ILB higher this draft, simply because those are our two weakest positions in terms of starter AND depth. Mosely and Skov would complement each other nicely and Gabe Jackson is a personal fav, though I'm starting to think there's even better value a little earlier with Z.Martin, who's starting to remind me of Whitworth, as in: everybody thinks he's a LG, but I think he can play LT or RT too. I could see him start out and take over LG and then move to OT if need be. That's the kind of versatility in a quality OL I'd happily invest a lte 1st rounder on. Also, some rounds later guys like B.Thomas or small scholler Kadeem Edwards, who had a good SrBowl game, would look good too.
There's ONE good point why to draft Evans or Watkins with our first pick and that's money. Established FA guys like Decker, Nicks will cost a lot. Not sure it's smart from a business side of things to sign a FA for that spot. Draft makes more sense and Evans and Watkins or Beckham and Lee represent day one contributors. You fill a need relatively cheap, that's good value.
That said, I still would not draft a WR at 4...maybe after a trade down and that too only if Bridgewater and Bortles are already picked, as QB still is our biggest need and the highest value position around.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
even better value a little earlier with Z.Martin, who's starting to remind me of Whitworth, as in: everybody thinks he's a LG, but I think he can play LT or RT too.
Funny you mention Whitworth, I had him there in the 5th then took him out and put Gilmore in. I don't think Martin will make it to 20, let alone 26. I could be wrong, but that was my thought process.
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The Whitworth I was comparing Martin to is the Bengals AllPro LT/LG  I guess you were talking about Fresno St's OG Wentworth? Haven't watched him yet. Is he good enough for a high 5th?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
So I just want to pose this question to the board.
Farmer seems to have a plan and has eluded to already having a QB in mind and also that it might not be who we think it is or necessarily at #4...
What if we spend the first round picks on other players not QB's; who would those players be (picking without trades) and who is the later round QB he might like to fit our offense?
I could see Watkins at #4, but have no idea after that. So let me know what 2 non QB's you see in the first and which QB (realistically there) in a later round.
Either Matthews or Robinson at #4.
At #26, I could see a Jace Amaro, TE from Texas Tech or Allen Robinson, WR from Penn State.
The later round QB. I like Mettenberger, David Fales or Aaron Murray but it could be any of them.
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He was fhe LT at Fresno for a QB that was sacked just 11 time s on about 650 pass attempts this year.
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Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews @ 4
Evans @ 26
Carlos Hyde @ 36
If we don't beef the line and get some depth... it won't matter who the qb is. If you don't believe me, ask Tim Couch.
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If we don't beef the line and get some depth... it won't matter who the qb is. If you don't believe me, ask Tim Couch.
Good QBs make Olines better...
You never heard about the online being that bad in Indy, then Manning is gone for a year and some how it became horrible with Curtis Painter behind it...
To compare our current Oline with what Couch had is ridiculous..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Tim Couch didn't play with two ProBowl OL in his career much less the same year. The OL could use some OGs, but it isn't close to the top need on this team. I'm one of the guys who would draft a RT and try Swartz at OG, but if we sign/draft a solid OG we are fine.
I do like Martin at 26 if he's there, and I love Jackson from MSU in the 2nd, but I won't be upset if we sign a FA and draft a mid rounder to groom either.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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The late round QB I like is James Franklin Missou
Intrigued by Brock Jensen N Dakota St. Hard to tell how his arm strength stacks up. It could look stronger than it is because the defenders are slow or out of position. I would love to see him throw live.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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He was fhe LT at Fresno for a QB that was sacked just 11 time s on about 650 pass attempts this year.
and half of those were less than 5 yards down the field.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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going from the top idea...No QB at 4...great. I'd love that.
Lets go...
1a: Sammy Watkins...best playmaker in the draft. Lets get it.
1b: Kelvin Benjamin...I don't think Marqise Lee will be available...and that's okay, Benjamin pairs with Watkins and Gordon best in size and speed.
2: Jace Amaro
3a: Shayne Skov
3b: Tajh Boyd
4a: OG
4b: CB
With those first 3 picks...we'd have 5 incredibly dangerous pass catchers...With a QB like Hoyer that places the ball well...Good luck stopping/covering us. Boyd can take the reasonable future to sit around and learn and improve while Hoyer sinks or swims...at the same time. We have an incredible amount of dangerous pass catchers.
Its been so long since weve had any WRs that can get ANY separation and/or catch passes. Its been a long time that we have WRs that just don't get open...and if they are open, they don't catch it. Now Gordon is able to do it since the first time since BE17 and KW2 could...but even then it was them two and not much else. If we grabbed those 3 at the top of the draft wed have...
Josh Gordon
Sammy Watkins
Kelvin Benjamin
Jordan Cameron
Jace Amaro
Thatd be a great combination...
Gordon and Benjamin would work like Marshall and Jeffrey
add Watkins who would be like a better Mike Wallace
add Cameron and Amaro could pair like Hernandez and Gronk did...or Thomas and Tamme have this season...
so...Marshall, Jeffrey, Wallace, Hernandez, and Gronk...together?
Those 5 together would show an amazing commitment to the offense...Our OL wasn't an issue with Hoyer getting the ball out quickly...Though our guards need improved. Gilkey could improve the LG spot, and a drafted guard would improve the RG spot.
Add Shayne Skov who has Polomalu like anticipation with less athleticism...we could really improve the defense...someone that the offense would have to pay attention to. That would free up either Robertson or DQ to just go and make tackles. Improve our pass rush in that more attention would spent in the middle of the field, that the outside pass rush could improve. Skov has proven a quality blitzer...and the threat of his penetration in the middle would improve Mingo and Kruger.
The rest of the picks can go for depth...
Please get those 3 at the beginning of the draft...and then get Shayne Skov regardless of the cost.
Or...Evans and Beckham Jr
Or Watkins and Lee
or Evans and Lee
Watkins and Benjamin are my dream scenario...or if Amaro seems like he needs to be taken with a 1st...Allen Robinson could be a good choice too...
3 pass catchers with the first 3 picks please.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
In the unlikely event that it goes;
1. Teddy
2. Clowney
3. Manziel
I guess you would have to look at Watkins, Bortles and maybe even Mathews, IMO that would be yet another unfortunate situation but Watkins is a very nice prospect. I pray Manziel or Bridgewater are there and I think despite what Farmer has led you to believe, we would take either of those two guys.
If Farmer goes QB at #4, no one could blame him. We really do need a couple young prospects at the most important position. I'd love it if they took two in this draft. If Clowney is there at #4 though, it would be MIGHTY tempting to take him. IF(and there's the rub) he turns out as projected? He could be the cornerstone of our defense for the foreseeable future. A real game changer.
A lot depends on what happens at picks 1-3. This will be a very interesting draft.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Clowney scares me.
I don't like it when people question someone's desire in football.
Everyone takes plays off. Thats different. You either get a Ngata or a Gerard Warren.
But when people feel you're playing for just the money, what then are you playing for after you get that money?
The guy has the tools to be an all time great. But so did at lot of people that fizzled out.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Clowney scares me.
I don't like it when people question someone's desire in football.
Everyone takes plays off. Thats different. You either get a Ngata or a Gerard Warren.
But when people feel you're playing for just the money, what then are you playing for after you get that money?
The guy has the tools to be an all time great. But so did at lot of people that fizzled out.
Ditto that.
Hope like hell that Houston sees Clowney as the far and away #1 player in this draft.
Rams want a LT? Move down to 4 and he's yours. We get our QB at 2. 
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Quote:
j/c
I think we can have our cake and eat it too, so thinking waaaay outside the box:
-Houston takes Manziel or Clowney,
- We trade (heaven forbid) Joe Thomas and a 3rd rounder to the Rams and pick Teddy Bridgewater
- At #4, we select either Matthews or Robinson
- At #26, we pick best value of: WR, ILB, OG, TE
- 2nd rd, best value of who we didn't pick above, or a CB/FS
- 3rd, Hyde, Dion Bailey (if no FS picked above), or QB (Murray, Garoppolo)
- 4th, Lindner OG, RB
- Rest = pick 'em...
Just thinking out loud here, but I just don't see a trade of Joe Thomas..Someday maybe, when he's not the JT we all have gotten used to, but now, no, I don't think so.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Rams want a LT? Move down to 4 and he's yours. We get our QB at 2.
Wouldn't that be nice! And possibly not too expensive, as both teams get who they want and the Rams walk away with a bonus ( 2nd or 3rd rounder)...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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J/C
All I know is whatever Farmer says will not give us an IOTA of a clue on what he thinks about QB...the only fact he has given us is that he has a kid that he wants.
It could mean Manziel, Bortles, Grappalo a mid rounder? Kid from Alabama???
Who knows.
JMHIgnorance on Farmer
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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A lot of people questioning Clowney's work ethic. While it's a fair question to ask you have to keep it in perspective. This guy has been better than almost anyone since the day he arrived at SC. When you're already the best, you don't really have to work all that hard to achieve what you want and in his case it was a top pick.
I think he'll be fine, if he had work ethic "Questions" and say a drug history, I'd drive the car off the bridge trying to steer clear of him. Elite athlete, the top prospect in this class. Real hard to pass that up at #4.
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working against Joe T every day in practice should wake him up
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
working against Joe T every day in practice should wake him up
We thought that about Wimbley & Mingo, too. I wouldn't put too much stock into the idea, hehe
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't see how drafting wide receivers with our two first rounders would ever be a good idea. Not only do we not need two more #1 wide receivers (did you forget we have Josh Gordon?), but we don't need one more #1 wide receiver. And not only that, but this is deepest receiver class there has been in years. Players like Brandin Cooks, Jordan Matthews, Davante Adams, Paul Richardson, and Jared Abbrederis are all really good and will go later in the draft.
We are not building a Madden team.
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Quote:
Quote:
working against Joe T every day in practice should wake him up
We thought that about Wimbley & Mingo, too. I wouldn't put too much stock into the idea, hehe
perhaps it destroys their confidence?
#gmstrong
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It's all about adding talent. Is Chicago lamenting that they have two amazing WRs? Does Denver mind that they have 3 great WRs in Thomas, Decker, and Welker? Does ATL mind having Jones AND White?
We're in a passing league. How would it hurt us to have 3 WRs that are difficult to cover?
Or are we better having Greg Little that cant get open still floundering out there. Or Travis Benjamin coming off an ACL and wasn't a good WR as it was. Or Tori Gurley, or any of the litany of bums weve thrown out there year after year after year.
We could actually have pass catchers...
Gordon cant do it alone...he was the leading receiver in the NFL this year and we were still not a top 10 team (11th) in passing yards...and averaged 252 passing yards a game...Gordon averaged over 100 of them...We threw the ball 681 times, only 3 teams below us even threw 600 times (Baltimore, Houston, Washington)...We don't need more pass catchers? Really?
In terms of passing...we have been one of the worst in the league for years. If we could have 3 WRs with immense talent we could be a threat in the passing game for the first time since 07.
In addition, having Watkins a smaller quick guy that can get deep with the best of them would free up Gordon on underneath routes where he is good at finding space and getting yards after, Benjamin would be a huge red zone target as well as a great possession style receiver that can also get deep. Oh man the options we would have with that group would be endless.
All this and I haven't even mentioned the two TEs that we could have to catch passes.
Cameron is very good (especially with Hoyer) and Amaro is a talented pass catcher as well, and a better blocker than Cameron.
I see no scenario where there is a negative there.
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It has to start somehow
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What better time than now?"
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We come back around to the age old question..... Does the QB make the WR's better, or do the WR's make your QB better? I've seen mediocre WR's look great with great QB play. I can't really say I've seen a lot of the opposite. In Atlanta, you must remember they do have a QB. I think that Denver team you mentioned has a pretty good QB too.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It's all about adding talent.
I agree. But it's about adding the right talent. Ideally would I love to have three #1 wide receivers? Yes. But if draft one wide receiver in the first round, which I don't think we should do, then that position would be pretty strong and other positions would need more attention.
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Gordon cant do it alone...he was the leading receiver in the NFL this year and we were still not a top 10 team (11th) in passing yards...and averaged 252 passing yards a game...Gordon averaged over 100 of them...We threw the ball 681 times, only 3 teams below us even threw 600 times (Baltimore, Houston, Washington)...
I would say that you just proved Gordon can do it alone. He was the leading receiver with no help.
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We don't need more pass catchers? Really?
Who said that?
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If we could have 3 WRs with immense talent we could be a threat in the passing game for the first time since 07.
We could have three wide receivers with immense talent without drafting any in the first round.
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I see no scenario where there is a negative there.
You mean other than ignoring every other position on our roster other than "pass catcher" with our first three picks?
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Is Chicago lamenting that they have two amazing WRs? Does Denver mind that they have 3 great WRs in Thomas, Decker, and Welker? Does ATL mind having Jones AND White?
Of course they don't mind. But do you think they would invest all of their high picks on that position?
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And the team that won the SB...had what for WRs?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
We come back around to the age old question.....
Does the QB make the WR's better, or do the WR's make your QB better?
I've seen mediocre WR's look great with great QB play. I can't really say I've seen a lot of the opposite.
In Atlanta, you must remember they do have a QB. I think that Denver team you mentioned has a pretty good QB too.
Cleveland had 3 QB's and Gordon looked pretty good with all of them LOL
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Quote:
I've seen mediocre WR's look great with great QB play. I can't really say I've seen a lot of the opposite.
I don't really post here much anymore, but I have to interject here and inquire to your thoughts about Andy Dalton and AJ Green or even Matt Stafford and CJ when he's healthy.
I think a certain tier of receivers can have that reverse effect. Look at Daunte Culpepper's career when he didn't have Randy Moss to throw to.
That being said, I certainly agree the opposite exists, especially in the case of Brees and Rodgers with the WRs they have to work with.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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To the last 3 posts...
I'm of the opinion that with Brian Hoyer we can be successful. The kid places the ball very well. The ball goes to a spot where the guy that catches it can do stuff with it. Something we haven't seen.
Accuracy is a bigger need from a QB than anything else. If you look at the best QBs, they place it well. Wilson, Brady, Manning, Brees, even Rivers. The inconsistent guys are the ones that don't have sustained success (Eli).
And as for finding guys later in the draft that have talent...sure we could find good WRs but we could have great ones.
Ignoring other spots...What ILB is a must pick early in the draft...Skov is the best of the bunch and he is a late 2nd kinda guy. Our DL is set, our OLBs are set, our safeties are set...CB is lacking yes, but there is talent in the draft there as well.
On offense, we could use a guard...another position where 3rd/4th rounders can step in and be successful if they fit. RB? With Shanahan making Morris good we can find a guy late...
With the belief that Hoyer can be a successful QB in the NFL...getting pass catchers is something that we can attack. Be unique. Just like you can never have too many good DLers as we saw this year, you cant have too many good pass catchers...with the opportunity to go get a dynamic passing game, with a QB that places the ball well...lets get it
Moreso, it provides us protection if Gordon misbehaves
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Not QB at 4: Later round QB's
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