Quote: Yes anyone can have a bad day and I said as much that day. But as you noted something is causing this leapfrog effect. What else has happened? Bortles didn't hurt himself but he didn't do anything astounding at his pro day.
I'll tell ya Tulsa,, I think it's the media. I think they stir things up so they have something to talk about during this down period..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: WRs are traditionally much more valuable in the high rounds than LBs -- its changing a little bit due to the LB/DE pass-rush hybrid. But a top WR is definitely more valuable than a coverage LB.
You completely missed the point. Here's Maxwell Smart to tell you about it....
Quote: I'm guessing folks don't seem to care for glove excuses.
I mean the Glove thing sounds pretty darn odd, but Teddy did what he did. He was a pretty successful QB in College. That should speak for his career so far, not one day.... Anyone can have one bad day right?
That's not what those that diss on Derek Carr are saying. One day against USC... They won't admit it because it would be hypocritical of them.
Quote: Yep, a Pro Day is way more important than a real game.
It's not more important, it's just another small piece in the puzzle...
But if you have the opportunity to set up your pro day and practice it and do it in a controlled way that shows your strengths the best... and you don't look good, that has to tell you something right?
Quote: Yep, a Pro Day is way more important than a real game.
It's not more important, it's just another small piece in the puzzle...
But if you have the opportunity to set up your pro day and practice it and do it in a controlled way that shows your strengths the best... and you don't look good, that has to tell you something right?
Exactly. But when Farmer said that they were scripted, he is right. Bridgewater should have been ace it since it was an 'open book' test. Bridgewater failed the test. I think he eliminated himself with that pro day.
Hopefully you can watch the Gruden meeting...he laughed at all the pun-dents saying that Bridgewater blew it. He especially dissed Kiper I mean really dissed him basically imagine me there calling Kiper a BOZO about the slant that he missed. Gruden then showed a bevy of what is considered NFL THROWS that he threw perfect and said what about these and then mocked KIPER again about the slant - oh and he did show the missed slant pass. Low n behind.
Then he did take Teddy out and asked him to make some throws. Wanted more zip on the 6 route (button hook) Teddy complied.
then into the chalk board room (now the white board w/colored markers) - I had to leave at that point so didn't see it but I'll predict he excelled at it
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Teddy will be the overall #1 pick in this draft if he is not...the Texans are the biggest fools around.
The big Question is what will the JAGs do??? jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
"Bridgewater failed the test. I think he eliminated himself with that pro day." ===============================
Eliminated himself from what?
After reading a number of your comments I thought you were just trying to be a contrarian. Trying to stir the pot sort of speak. But then it started to appear you were actually serious. In which case although we are all entitled to our opinions yours are long way from any type of logic. "Bridgewater in the fifth" .
Quote: I'm guessing folks don't seem to care for glove excuses.
I mean the Glove thing sounds pretty darn odd, but Teddy did what he did. He was a pretty successful QB in College. That should speak for his career so far, not one day.... Anyone can have one bad day right?
That's not what those that diss on Derek Carr are saying. One day against USC... They won't admit it because it would be hypocritical of them.
I haven't been paying enough attention to know who's beating on Carr.. But one game, one day isn't enough of a sample to tell if a guy is good or bad. I don't care who the player is.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I don't agree with that. He literally said "That's one of the worst football plays I've ever seen" in his interview with Weeden.
I think some of you need to pay closer attention to the questions Gruden is asking and how he responds to the answers. You could tell he wasn't high on Weeden in the interview if you watch closely.
I did a full run down of that interview and came away with the impression Gruden wasn't sold on Weeden, despite the fact that he won't say anything bad about them, he will always highlight the good because he wants these guys to WANT to do his show. You just have to read between the lines to find the bad.
Edit:
I found my post on that interview.
Quote: Quoted by BpG
Speaking of talking up Weeden. I really like the way Gruden does his interview with the Quarterbacks segments. He does tend to highlight their good points too much, but I get it, he's not trying to hurt their draft stock. The highlights he talks about are in fact highlights of the players skill set. He also doesn't hold back on them, but he's nice about it so you have to pick up on it.
For example watch this video....
Skip to 6:20 - 8:00
He asks him very specific questions about how he is going to be able to handle calling his own plays. Weeden sounds lost, flat out he sounds lost. Like he wasn't prepared for that question....
When he asks him about his snap count, he response that he basically doesn't even have one...all silent....Alright but you're going to need one in the NFL Brandon. How are you not prepared for that question?!
Watch 12:32 - 13:15, Gruden (in a fun, made for TV way) grills him on what we all know to be horribly symptomatic for Weeden, telegraphing passing and throwing a pick six. He doesn't even really own it, he just ho hum, huur durr, we won the game.
Those are just examples. If you read between the lines when Gruden talks to them you can see the points and negatives he is trying to make if you pay attention.
Another example is that he has Weeden draw up a draw play. When you listen and watch, Weeden literally diagrams a one read play. No audible option because it's one read with pass or run built in.
In another part, he calls one of Weedens plays "The worst play in football I have ever seen". Where he steps out of bounds for a safety, throws an INT for a pick six.
How ANYONE could want to draft this guy after watching this....I don't even know...
Quote: Hopefully you can watch the Gruden meeting...he laughed at all the pun-dents saying that Bridgewater blew it. He especially dissed Kiper I mean really dissed him basically imagine me there calling Kiper a BOZO about the slant that he missed. Gruden then showed a bevy of what is considered NFL THROWS that he threw perfect and said what about these and then mocked KIPER again about the slant - oh and he did show the missed slant pass. Low n behind.
Then he did take Teddy out and asked him to make some throws. Wanted more zip on the 6 route (button hook) Teddy complied.
then into the chalk board room (now the white board w/colored markers) - I had to leave at that point so didn't see it but I'll predict he excelled at it
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Teddy will be the overall #1 pick in this draft if he is not...the Texans are the biggest fools around.
The big Question is what will the JAGs do??? jmho
There were plenty of coverage of the Louisville pro day with video to make some assertions about Bridgewater.
And why should we take Gruden's (or your) viewpoint over our own observations or the observations of others that are valued?
As for what the Jags will do, I think they're going to go either D (Clowney or Mack) or they may take Watkins (they may buy into the hype) to cover for the shortage at WR that the suspension of Blackmon left. It sucks for them but the suspension added another hole for them.
They could also go OT because they had Joeckel go down with injury. They could take Joeckel's former teammate at A&M in Matthews. There would be instant familiarity and chemistry between them.
If Bortles is there, they could certainly draft him also. I don't see them taking either of the other QBs.
If Clowney and Mack are gone but Bortles is there for the Browns, they could trade back (a team may want to move up) or simply take Bortles themselves. My guess is that the Browns will take either of the defensive players or Bortles if any of them are available.
Quote: Who would have thought you could learn so much about a quarterback by simply taking the defense off the field? Last week, top quarterback prospects Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles each went through their respective pro day workouts. It’s hard to imagine the two events producing a more different set of opinions. Bridgewater’s pro day was a fiasco, with the Louisville product struggling with deeper throws and managing to complete just 57 of the 65 passes he attempted.1 Bortles’s pro day, meanwhile, conjured all the right adjectives. Impressive. Solid. Bortles’s strong pitch might very well be the final piece of the puzzle he needed to rise to the top of this year’s quarterback class.
That’s no surprise. The entire pre-draft process — but most notably the pro day quarterback workout — is designed to make guys like Bortles look good while hiding the strengths of a player like Bridgewater. It plays up physical tools at the expense of actual football skills. The tools help, but you need the skills to succeed. And Bortles might very well be a better quarterback than Bridgewater when all is said and done, but I strongly doubt what happened last week gives us any reliable data on whether that’s the case.
Most elite college quarterback prospects these days opt out of the NFL scouting combine in favor of their own pro day, and it’s easy to understand why. A pro day allows a quarterback to throw in the settings and surroundings of his (and his team of handlers’) choosing. The passer can pick the receivers he’ll be throwing to and the drills he’ll run. Most important, though, each pro day is built around a scripted passing regimen customized to show off the quarterback’s respective strengths (with some marginal lip service paid to addressing his weaknesses). The quarterback can prepare for weeks to run this exact script, and since pro days occur much later than the combine, he even gets an extra month to prepare. It’s the pink slime of sports: There’s something vaguely resembling football in there, but it shouldn’t be taken as a satisfying substitute for the real thing.
Unmolested in the pocket and with no coverage to read, superior athletes are going to stand out. A passer with spectacular arm strength will have all the time he needs to loft throws downfield. Fluid, mobile quarterbacks reliably show off the footwork they’ve been drilling for weeks with ease. Players who just look like they’re quarterbacks have no better canvas for their skills than a pro day. And that’s exactly the sort of prospect Bortles appears to be. While he’s certainly not without merit, his rise up the quarterback rankings this offseason has been driven by his prototypical size and above-average arm strength. He’s seen as a raw talent that the right coach could mold into a superstar. For raw talents like JaMarcus Russell, whose workout was described by Jon Gruden at the time as “Star Wars,”2 the pro day is ice.
There is something crucial that a pro day doesn’t measure, though. (And no, it’s not heart.) More and more, when I go back through recent history and look at the first-round quarterbacks who failed to live up to expectations, I notice how frequently the problem of making accurate throws while handling a professional pass rush seems to come up. It’s not just that this isn’t tested during any of the pre-draft rituals, it’s that it’s thrown out the window and replaced with what might very well be false information. A quarterback shows effective footwork after weeks of drilling for a pro day, only to immediately lose that footwork and resort to bad habits once Aldon Smith or Robert Mathis starts bearing down on him.
Think about recently failed quarterback prospects and, chances are, you’ll come across a guy who had a good pro day and struggled to stay accurate under pressure. Russell is just one classic example. Blaine Gabbert had a wonderful pro day.3 Jake Locker was 40-for-42 versus air during his highly regarded performance. Samesies for Brandon Weeden and Mark Sanchez. Even Alex Smith wowed coaches with his transition from a spread offense during his pro day, a performance that very well might have pushed him ahead of Aaron Rodgers on the 49ers’ draft board. In each case, these quarterbacks struggled to handle professional pass rushes, leading to inaccuracy, higher sack rates, larger risks of injuries, and (considering Smith’s draft status) disappointing professional careers.
Now, guess what Bridgewater’s best skill is? Football Outsiders’ Matt Waldman noted, to nobody’s surprise, that it’s his preternatural ability to remain composed in the pocket and make accurate throws against pressure! He’s not a freak athlete by any stretch of the imagination, but Bridgewater’s feel for the position allows him to efficiently use his feet to elude pressure long enough to create a throwing lane and make an accurate pass. Bortles hasn’t consistently exhibited that skill. He might be the sort of athlete who can get himself out of trouble. Bridgewater’s the kind of quarterback who can avoid getting himself into trouble.
The rest of Bridgewater’s skills also show up in the fall as opposed to the spring. I’ve stolen the baseball pitching concepts of command and control in the past, and Bridgewater’s a great example of a passer who can do both. Not only does he have the functional accuracy to make catchable throws to his targets, he also has the veteran wherewithal and anticipation necessary to put passes in the exact spots his receivers would like them most. He makes the right reads at the line to set his protections and run the best possible play. He also reads the full field on every play.
For all that, though, his stock has slipped some during this process, a slide that will hardly be arrested by this poor pro day. His hands might be too small. He weighs only 214 pounds.4 While his arm strength on short and intermediate throws is regarded as above-average, there are questions about his accuracy on truly deep passes, the sorts of throws Joe Flacco and Matthew Stafford can make with ease. And after hearing for perpetuity that numbers are rendered useless by their inability to measure a player’s heart or intangibles, I find it interesting to see a player regarded as a superb team leader and tape junkie slip during February and March. Shouldn’t this be the time when scouts use their nuance and intuition to tease out those signs of leadership and respect? Why are they falling for arm strength instead?
Some teams will take Bridgewater’s poor pro day, see it as a sign of poor preparation, and move him down their draft boards. It’s the easy thing to do. It will take courage and conviction for a team at the top of the draft like Jacksonville or Oakland to look past Bridgewater’s bad day to draft the guy who looked like he was the best quarterback prospect on most fall Saturdays during the past two years. And even then, that team might be wrong; it may very well turn out that the process correctly reveals Bortles to be a better option than Bridgewater. But I’m very suspicious that the process isn’t asking — or answering — the questions an NFL team should be interested in.
Good article on Bridgewater/Bortles. Click the link for footnotes and links within the article.
Quote: "Bridgewater failed the test. I think he eliminated himself with that pro day." ===============================
Eliminated himself from what?
After reading a number of your comments I thought you were just trying to be a contrarian. Trying to stir the pot sort of speak. But then it started to appear you were actually serious. In which case although we are all entitled to our opinions yours are long way from any type of logic. "Bridgewater in the fifth" .
Psychedelic man, far out dude.
I think that Bridgewater has eliminated himself from contention of being the first QB taken and he may be lucky to get drafted in the first round... by any team.
I'm aware that my opinion about Bridgewater isn't popular. That doesn't faze me at all.
Where was Matt Barkley considered two years ago (or even last year)? Where was he drafted? For that matter, where was Geno Smith expected to be taken? Where was he drafted? He was overdrafted at that and is about to be supplanted (yes, he will lose the starting QB job for the Jets) by Michael Vick.
Keep firing your arrows. I'll stick to my own assessment of Bridgewater. And when he gets thrown into the fire (plays in an actual NFL game), he'll look back at his pro day performance with the warm and fuzzies.
Quote: Read between the lines all you want, I'm going by what he actually said.
He's not going to come out and say, Brandon Weeden is garbage. If he ever did that, no one would come on his show. We're talking costing someone millions of dollars. No way in hell he is going to just come out and say he doesn't like a guy.
No guest QB's = no show = no paycheck for said show. It's very simple.
And why should we take Gruden's (or your) viewpoint over our own observations or the observations of others that are valued?
Who said I was asking you to. I just asked you to actually educate yourself on the subject. But if you wish to ascertain your opinion without some education on the subject so be it. Did you really state he was a 5th round QB??? Read somebody saying so. If you were joking ok. If serious then why am I or anyone bothering with your QB opinion? btw I'm assuming you were not serious or did not say that.
As for Mel Kiper's "VALUED" opinion over Gruden regarding QBs...ummm is there a decision to make on who's opinion to value??? Really???
As BPG stated he states facts he does put positive spins on it but he keeps the facts real. You can tell when he really likes a QB and when he is not so keen on him.
Btw...just what are your "OBSERVATIONS" are you talking about regarding Bridgewater. My observations were from 2012...and I knew and stated right then and there he will be the next great drafted QB after the Luck/RG3 grouping.
Just like this year I was stating that Conner Cook will be the top QB from he 2015 class if he comes out!
Just what are your observations. You brought this up. A little insulting but I probably insulted you as well. But I'll call the question so to speak. Just what and when did you observe. If you wish not to discuss it I can understand. But it seems you object to some statements I have made. I was very genuine to ask you to watch the Gruden segment and judge Bridgewater. If Kiper is your guy...well never mind. He use to be a trailblazer. Now well he is just full of crapola.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Re: Blake Bortles [Re: BpG] #1135519 - Fri Mar 21 2014 12:29 PM Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote
Quote:
I think it's hilarious, to hear that both Bridgewater and Manziel could "fall to the second round". What a joke. Both are immensly more talented than Geno Smith.
Geno Smith was grossly overdrafted (just Geno Smith being drafted proves this) and even in the second round, both Manziel & Bridgewater will be overdrafted. Manziel might be worth it in the 4th. Bridgewater, no sooner than the 5th and that may be a bit of a stretch for him.
-------------------- Just draft the reincarnation of LT and Derrick Thomas, Khalil Mack! ====================================================
tab, I posted several articles about Teddy during the season. One of them was excellent and had pictures and text. The author clearly showed how Teddy read the defense at the LOS, read the blitz, avoided the blitz, looked off the safety, and delivered a long, accurate pass to a WR.
anarchy refused to even read that article or any others. His mind was made up.
Well the fact that he took it as an INSULT that I asked him to view the Gruden tape and educate himself on a subject he has a strong opinion. Says a lot.
I won't get into it too much. Anarchy brings up some good questions. But I can assume bonefish that is Anarchy's quote stating that they are 4th or 5th round QBs. Then I just think he is looking to live up to his moniker. Cause that is not an opinion its borders on silliness.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I have been very clear about how good I feel Bridgewater is. The other guy I like a lot is Jimmy G. If the Browns were to go the Watkins route in the first it would be my hope that that Jimmy G. would the pick at 26.
This young man has plenty of tools to work with at the NFL level. His former OC had this to say about his cerebral approach to the game.
"Jimmy can diagram every offensive player's assignment on every play and every situational adjustment".
The more I have looked at him the more I like.
Bridgewater is still my top guy and I sure hope the Browns see it the same way. If they pass on him at four it will be a mistake, But if he is gone say to the Jags then I hope we end up with Watkins and Jimmy G.
I have been very clear about how good I feel Bridgewater is. The other guy I like a lot is Jimmy G. If the Browns were to go the Watkins route in the first it would be my hope that that Jimmy G. would the pick at 26.
This young man has plenty of tools to work with at the NFL level. His former OC had this to say about his cerebral approach to the game.
"Jimmy can diagram every offensive player's assignment on every play and every situational adjustment".
The more I have looked at him the more I like.
Bridgewater is still my top guy and I sure hope the Browns see it the same way. If they pass on him at four it will be a mistake, But if he is gone say to the Jags then I hope we end up with Watkins and Jimmy G.
I've heard (don't remember the source) that the Browns are planning to visit:
That tells me more than anything else I've heard so far -- Murray and Garappolo are really both "poor man's Bridgewaters" in terms of intelligence, arm strength, accuracy etc. Those three QBs all really come out of the same mold - Bortles, Manziel, and Carr are different.
Which likely means that if Bridgewater is there when we pick at 4, we will take him. If he's gone, we will look for the poor man's version later (maybe both Garrap and Murray?) on and grab some weapons at 4.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Quote: Which likely means that if Bridgewater is there when we pick at 4, we will take him. If he's gone, we will look for the poor man's version later (maybe both Garrap and Murray?) on and grab some weapons at 4.
This is my best guess - although we could also be looking at the later versions because we have Bridgewater 3rd or 4th on our big board, and so if somebody else (Watkins/Clowney?) are there, then we will wait for the poor mans version later.
You never know at this point, we might decide that we would like a QB like Bridgewater, but would be interested in a Manziel at 26 or something...
Quote: The more and more I watch videos of this guy.. the more he reminds me of Andrew Luck..
He's really growing on me..
I won't go off on you as harshly as I did wav2u about how Bridgewater reminds them of Aaron Rodgers.... but... I wouldn't put him in that category yet but he does have the potential.
Quote: The more and more I watch videos of this guy.. the more he reminds me of Andrew Luck..
He's really growing on me..
I won't go off on you as harshly as I did wav2u about how Bridgewater reminds them of Aaron Rodgers.... but... I wouldn't put him in that category yet but he does have the potential.
So...I'll just say this.... Bwahahaha!
I think my comment is a little more in sync than a Bridgewater/Rodgers comparison.. but regardless.. laugh all u want..
Its a message board full of opinions.. so to each his own.
Quote: The more and more I watch videos of this guy.. the more he reminds me of Andrew Luck..
He's really growing on me..
How so? Please explain.
Btw...............you dissed the Bridgewater/Rodgers comparison. If you want, I will explain how they compare. But, how about you go first.
I already threw some of the differences out there about Rodgers and Bridgewater.
Rodgers and Bridgewater are in two different worlds.
Rodgers has way more spin on his throws. Rodgers throws lasers all over the field even deep passes Rodgers became good because he had time to learn how to play and train in the NFL Rodgers is consistent with his throwing motion. Rodgers has the ability to run and ran twice as much as Teddy did in three years of college Rodgers only played two season of college ball Bridgewater played three
Rodgers also fell because a lot of teams didn't need a QB once he passed SF it was a free fall a lot of teams didn't like how cocky Rodgers was.
there are more differences... but that's the blatantly obvious ones.
Here are a few more:
Bridgewater measured in at 6-foot-2, 214 pounds at the NFL combine. At his pro day, he was six pounds lighter, at 208 pounds.
Rodgers is 6'2" but he weighed 223 in the draft and weighs 225 now.
Bridgewater also has the smallest hands (9.25 inches) measured of any of the top QB prospects. There have been 39 quarterbacks since 2008 who have had a hand size of 9.25 inches or smaller at the NFL combine. Of those players, only 18 percent have started half of an NFL season (eight games) and none has made the Pro Bowl.
Rodgers hand size was 10 1/8- that's almost an inch bigger.
Bridgewater’s statistics in his final college season confirm the scouts' concerns. He completed 39.1 percent of his passes thrown 20 yards or farther downfield, the second-lowest percentage of the top 10 QB prospects ranked by Scouts Inc.
Rodgers has always been known as a very accurate deep ball passer. Probably one of the greatest QB's to throw the deep pass ever.
The issue for Bridgewater is arm strength. As noted above, Bridgewater is one of the most accurate quarterbacks in the nation on intermediate passes, but when he has to throw it farther down field, the ball tends to hang in the air.
Bridgewater is more like Colt McCoy than he similar to Rodgers. I've said that a lot and I'll stick by it.
I'm not going to keep going on Bridgewater/Rodgers.
I could keep going on Bridgewater and Colt McCoy similarities or other late round draft pick with no arm strength, small hands, and inconsistent mechanics.
about the slant that he missed. Gruden then showed a bevy of what is considered NFL THROWS that he threw perfect and said what about these and then mocked KIPER again about the slant - oh and he did show the missed slant pass. Low n behind. 
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