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Groves averages a sack per year it seems. He's old and a bust. He should be cut and replaced by a project pick in the draft.
Groves is relatively inexpensive, and is a great special teams player and situational pass rusher.
His 2014 salary is $1 million, and he has another $1 million available in incentives. That's a minimal price for a veteran pass rusher.
I see no reason to dump him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sad to see D'Qwell Jackson leave. Kinda shocking, but as they say, "Change is law." ...Now if we could only change our record to a winning one that statement - taken as a whole - would be more believable.
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The more I read of you guys, the less I like and respect you.
This is the kinda thing that you say that makes people say the things about you that they do that you always complain about., you bring it on yourself.
An idiotic comment if I ever heard one.. What in the hell makes you think I give a damn if you respect or like me.
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You guys suck!!! Freaking hypocrites.
If we suck and are freaking hypocrites, then why the hell don't you get out of here.. Why would you stay here if you think so little of us.
Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split ya..
Or, if it's just me you don't like, put me on Ignore. then you won't have to listen to me express my opinion.
You often comment on how rudely (not your word) you get treated on here, well, now you know the reason why. It's comments like those contained in this post that makes people want to cut your giblets off and throw them to the wolves.
This would have been a lot better if you had just said, I disagree.. But no, that doesn't work for you does it. You are not happy until you can put someone down and then you get all up in a roar when someone lays you out.
Grow up
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Oh, and if the shoe doesn't fit................my comments are not directed towards you, But, if the shoe does fit.............stick it somewhere.
WOW just WOW.. This late addition to your post only makes you look more pathetic.
If you weren't directing it at me, all you had to do was start it off with "JUST CLICKING"
Nice way to cover your butt. Add that in and that covers your butt for name calling. Smart.
Standard board rule.. No biggie, easy to do.. But no.. Not you..
You are a hack and if I get booted for calling you that, then fine, I'll wear it like a badge of honor.
Refs, if you feel you need to ban me for a week or two, feel free. do me the courtesy to email me to inform me. I know at least two of you personally and I'm sure you have my email.
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/27/14 08:01 AM.
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There is also the FA signing period.
Pretty sure we are making one investment in FA. On that list why was Rivers not on it?
As for more coming....I guess Rubin but not sure they wish to break up a good thing...we'll see.
Groves played well last season. He shouldn't be expensive. Maybe Horton will trade for him.
Barnidge - texans O used 2 TE a lot not expensive don't know why he would go.
Pinkston...we need OL depth and he can start if needed. No reason to get rid of him its not like he's making a lot of money???
All could get cut at the end of camps if we have better - but only Rubin got the big bucks that make him vulnerable.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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That's a safe bet Eo,, I don't know who they have in their sights, but it seems fairly clear that they have guys in mind.
Question is, who are they going to get that is better than DQ and costs less? that I don't know.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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What are you talking about. I said it was about money right off the bat. However, because it was Banner in charge at the time.............he was being called a snake and other such names by the majority of posters.
Fake. Fickle. Hypocritical.
And again, if you weren't one of those posters............then it's not about you. And for those who were............I have zero respect for you.
I understand now. I know I wasn't down on Banner, or Lombardi for that matter. Had they still been here I would feel the same about losing DQ as I do now.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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His contract was bad. Too bad to trade that is.
Exactly. Nobody is going to trade some pick for a player like DQ and have to more or less pay him 6.5 mil this year.
I'd rather take that 6 mil and apply it to Mack and or Ward and keep them in house. Put Joe H in there as well. We are wanting to extend his this year. He is going to require some pretty serious bonus money on the table.
Now, if we don't do anything with the money and ar 60 mil under the cap..damn right it was a bad move.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Well we need two...Got a good feeling we pick up two in FA - one a starter another as depth. I think we draft a starter as well.
better than DQ and cost less? You are thinking of this as an individual. Team wise its a new D and we will gain some youth and speed on the inside the unit ILB will be made stronger/better. If we take one of the best ILB in the draft at 26 and sign a capable FA. DQ was never Great. I thought he was good but to us Browns fans Ok - good looks great to us. Also he is at 30 and probably getting to the decline of his career.
This is not a position that is hard to fill and we had a good DQ and then nothing much...hopefully the unit strength will change.
Pit as for Inside...in an attacking Defense I was always curious on Sheard - SILB in 3-4 or if we show 4-3 SAM LB - he's a good blitzer to move around on passing downs and he can even jump in and put his hand down. Just a thought.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I am beginning to rethink things since Farmer is in charge. I think back to a comment he made just after being named GM. He said something about knowing who he would draft at QB and it might not be who everybody else would think it is.
That has me thinking we aren't going QB with the first pick.
Our pick seems to be a perfect location for some team to want to move up. These are all probablys, but there will be a QB there, the best receiver, 2 great backers and possibly Clowney.
Maybe we trade down a bit, or maybe we take one of the backers...Barr or Mack?? Just a thought.
If we are sold on Hoyer, or Farmer sees a QB he likes to be had at 26 or the top of another round, maybe we are way off on who we are going to take.
For me, this discussion isn't so much about who I want. It's more about trying to figure out what the Browns are going to do.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I guess I am looking at it as replacing an individual, that may not be the best way to view it. I guess we're gonna find out
Honestly, perhaps complaining about much of anything is just screwy when you think about it. Not much this team (past and present ownership) has done has worked.
So shaking it up in such a fashion may be just what needs done. Guess we'll find out.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Someone mentioned Atyba Rubin being a potential surprise cut. I certainly hope not. Having lot's of depth on this team is a necessity especially at the defensive line. If we're looking to get rid of him at the very least trade him. He's been very stout and productive against the run the last 2-3 years, I would say he's worth a 4th rounder to a Superbowl contending team such as San-Fran, New England or Denver. Honestly though I'd rather keep him.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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I hope they don't release him either, BUT he's getting some long green and he's getting up in years.. So I'd say it's possible.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I wouldn't think that they let Rubin go because the DL is one of our stronger units and generally performed well last year.
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I hope they don't release him either, BUT he's getting some long green and he's getting up in years.. So I'd say it's possible.
last year under contract so who knows?
9/11/2011: Signed a four-year, $27.6 million contract. The deal contains $18 million guaranteed, including a $5.5 million signing bonus. 2014: $6.6 million (+ $300,000 workout bonus), 2015: Free Agent
maybe they will give him new contract lol?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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So uhhhhh, can Khalil Mack play inside?
Cause if that's the case, I'd have no issues taking him at 4.
I saw Mack 3 times last year and he will be a force and I will go as far to say All Pro.
Yeah, I saw a few games. Most of us Buckeye fans saw week 1. He was arguably the best player on the field that day. He's really fast for a big guy. Did not seem to be bothered by the fact that he was on Buffalo playing OSU at OSU. I like that.
Like I said, I want a QB at 4, but if they take that guy, you won't hear a peep out of me about it.
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I hope they don't release him either, BUT he's getting some long green and he's getting up in years.. So I'd say it's possible.
last year under contract so who knows?
9/11/2011: Signed a four-year, $27.6 million contract. The deal contains $18 million guaranteed, including a $5.5 million signing bonus. 2014: $6.6 million (+ $300,000 workout bonus), 2015: Free Agent
maybe they will give him new contract lol?
Well, its encouraging that they appear to have tried to redo DQ's deal and it just didn't work out. So, maybe they'll do the same with Rubin.. who knows.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well, its encouraging that they appear to have tried to redo DQ's deal and it just didn't work out.
That's really all which needs to be focused on here.
Jackson states he wanted to go somewhere with more stability. Nobody could blame any player for wanting that after dealing with this mess for nearly a decade. However, let's not lose sight of the fact Jackson was more than willing to stay, otherwise he wouldn't have been interested in negotiating a restructure. If all he wanted was out he could have told the FO he wasn't interested in restructuring which would immediately lead to his release.
Yet he didn't say that. He stated clearly he was negotiating which indicated a desire to stay.
It came down to money versus production. Jackson came to the league from a 3-4 but was clearly not a great player in that defense. His size and abilities leave him as a 4-3 MLB if a team really wants to get the most out of him, and even then he's not stout against the run and barely adequate in the pass-game.
Jackson is a decent starter for any 4-3 team, but he's a year or two away from being a backup, and in this league backup's play special teams. Jackson doesn't. It made sense to let him go if he wasn't interested in taking a good deal less money. He'll plug in a hole for a team in need and give them decent production, just as long as they aren't expecting him to be a physical stud for the defensive unit. He's a guy you can win with if he's surrounded by good players. If he's the best of the bunch, he won't reveal himself as a star, making him a guy in the Andra Davis mold...someone who can still play but isn't a star, is slowing down, and is nearing the end.
The Browns got value out of him during his career here. He's been a good soldier and one of the few positives on a team in turmoil during his tenure. There are few players which I root for after they leave the Browns, but Jackson has earned any respect given to him. I wish him nothing but the best.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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 STUPID!!!
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Well, he said he was more than willing to "restructure", but what does that mean? It could mean that he wanted close to all of the money owed to him via playing incentives or backloaded into future years. Re-structure does not automatically mean pay cut.
The only thing we know for sure is that he said he would have stayed IF we'd pay the 4mil bonus....looks to me like that was the minimum requirement for him. 4mil+ probably at least a minimum of 1mil base, if not more.
So the question becomes: is DQ worth 4-5mil minimum? To us and in our cap situation, I'd say yes, but on the open market? No way. Dansby got half of that lst season.
Since I'm sure that's what his agent knows too, by deduction, it means that DQ wanted out. He took a hard stance negotiating, basically saying: "if you give me twice what I'm worth, THEN I'll stay, if not I'm ok getting half of that but play for a real team with stability"...he was hinting at that too when he remarked that he's saved enough money.
He's saying the right things trying to stay classy, but I really think he wanted out and was fed up with the constant turnover around him.
His story is a re-load of the Dawson story
#gmstrong
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Unfortunate. He was one of my favorite Browns players and still very effective. I hope he goes to the team that wins the super bowl this next year because he has put in the time and effort to earn one.
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Your post seems like the most logical explanation. With the Dansby deal last year and DQ wanting the entire 4 mil. roster bonus plus salary, it looks like he almost intentionally priced himself out of town.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I hope they don't release him either, BUT he's getting some long green and he's getting up in years.. So I'd say it's possible.
Who? Rubin?
He's 27. He's in the prime of his career.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The more I think about this ..... and re-reading DQ's comments ...... the more I have a feeling that DQ just wanted out.
He says that he was willing to restructure, but he didn't want to give up his bonus money, and he wanted to go somewhere with "stability". I have a feeling that, while he might have had mixed feelings about leaving, he made the decision that he would not do anything to stay.
JMHO, for whatever it's worth.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I hope they don't release him either, BUT he's getting some long green and he's getting up in years.. So I'd say it's possible.
Who? Rubin?
He's 27. He's in the prime of his career.
Ya know Ytown, you are right, for whatever reason, I thought he was older... My bad.. But still, anything is possible. Does he fit? I think so but what the hell do I know..LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I hope they don't release him either, BUT he's getting some long green and he's getting up in years.. So I'd say it's possible.
Who? Rubin?
He's 27. He's in the prime of his career.
Ya know Ytown, you are right, for whatever reason, I thought he was older... My bad.. But still, anything is possible. Does he fit? I think so but what the hell do I know..LOL
he has been playing injured a lot the last couple of years. might come into the thinking?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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The more I think about this ..... and re-reading DQ's comments ...... the more I have a feeling that DQ just wanted out
You have to ask yourself, do you blame him? He's had what, 4 HC's. How many different total regime changes, 2 owners. And the last straw for him might have been firing Chud after only 1 year.
Not sure I really blame the guy if that's the case!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The more I think about this ..... and re-reading DQ's comments ...... the more I have a feeling that DQ just wanted out
You have to ask yourself, do you blame him? He's had what, 4 HC's. How many different total regime changes, 2 owners. And the last straw for him might have been firing Chud after only 1 year.
Not sure I really blame the guy if that's the case!
Wasnt there a question about how long of a contract we were offering? He wanted a longer deal than we were willing to give him? Not sure... I thought I read that... That in itself could be stability. Maybe we had two years on the table and he wanted 4 ... IDK just musing
#gmstrong
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Not sure I really blame the guy if that's the case!/quote]
I don't blame him but that provides reason not to blame the FO either.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Not sure I really blame the guy if that's the case!
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I don't blame him but that provides reason not to blame the FO either.
LOL Fixed the quotes for ya.
Anyway, blame! Funny word. Depends on what you want to believe I guess.
Anyway, I don't know the whole truth surrounding DQ's release. I do know what I heard him say when he was asked about the rumor of Chud being fired and he was not at all pleased.
Maybe he just had enough. Willing to play out his contract, but not willing to change it much.. Who knows. Maybe that was the last straw and when offered a chance to leave, he took it.
Dunno
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We don't know what was offered or demanded, so it doesn't make sense to sound like we do.
As for the reload of Dawson....maybe, maybe not, but not having Dawson didn't hurt us last year. Cundiff had a solid season. I suspect replacing Jackson won't be all that hard.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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DQ has said that he was willing to negotiate, but not willing to give up his bonus ...... or words to that effect. I'll see if I can find the story ..... "My agent Brian Mackler and I made the decision that if I was going to take that offer I'd go somewhere else where there's a little bit more stability and a situation that's a little bit better for me,'' Jackson said in an exclusive interview with Northeast Ohio Media Group. and ...... "I definitely would've stayed if they would've payed the $4.0 million bonus,'' Jackson said. " From here: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-reportI also think that the Browns did DQ a major favor releasing him now rather than at the start if the new league year when free agency starts, and he might get lost in the wash of free agent talent, to some extent.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DQ was jaded by instability. Who isn't on the team? He was in the perfect position to get away clean. Can't say I blame him for not accepting what was offered. He wanted out, he's gone. He probably won't get the money he wanted to stay here. But money won't be a issue if he is signed on a more stable team. Which is just about ever other team in the NFL. 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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He started early, I don't think his age is up there. Maybe 27?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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DQ has said that he was willing to negotiate, but not willing to give up his bonus ...... or words to that effect. I'll see if I can find the story .....
"My agent Brian Mackler and I made the decision that if I was going to take that offer I'd go somewhere else where there's a little bit more stability and a situation that's a little bit better for me,'' Jackson said in an exclusive interview with Northeast Ohio Media Group.
and ......
"I definitely would've stayed if they would've payed the $4.0 million bonus,'' Jackson said. "
From here:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-report
I also think that the Browns did DQ a major favor releasing him now rather than at the start if the new league year when free agency starts, and he might get lost in the wash of free agent talent, to some extent.
All this makes sense. I just hope Farmer has a plan to replace Jackson AND Robertson. Lots of young ILBs are hitting the market (Spikes, Butler, Moats, Connor, etc) and there seems to be some decent prospects in the draft as well. Hopefully we address this because as much as it was expected this might happen, another hole was created.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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"I definitely would've stayed if they would've payed the $4.0 million bonus,'' Jackson said. "
Did DQ speak with poor spelling, or is the reporter just retarded?
Way to go on your hiring practices, Cleveland.com 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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"I definitely would've stayed if they would've payed the $4.0 million bonus,'' Jackson said. "
Did DQ speak with poor spelling, or is the reporter just retarded?
Way to go on your hiring practices, Cleveland.com
Evidently spellcheck isn't perfect either. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086 |
Quote:
DQ has said that he was willing to negotiate, but not willing to give up his bonus ...... or words to that effect. I'll see if I can find the story .....
"My agent Brian Mackler and I made the decision that if I was going to take that offer I'd go somewhere else where there's a little bit more stability and a situation that's a little bit better for me,'' Jackson said in an exclusive interview with Northeast Ohio Media Group.
and ......
"I definitely would've stayed if they would've payed the $4.0 million bonus,'' Jackson said. "
From here:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-report
I also think that the Browns did DQ a major favor releasing him now rather than at the start if the new league year when free agency starts, and he might get lost in the wash of free agent talent, to some extent.
so there you have it... Simple
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
He also said that he wanted to be here...that this year was always to be THE YEAR for the Browns to turn it around and he wanted to be here to see it and be it.
Evidently we DID NOT want him that bad. Of course he would have taken probably minimum 2014 plus the Roster Bonus. Then probably 4 mil 2015 n 2016 along with an extension instead of the 7 mil per season.
From what I have read that is what DQ wanted.
We...excuse me there is no WE now cause they kicked us to the curb...lol 
The Browns staff went and reviewed all their players from last season and put grades to them...Especially the D the O is maybe a little behind cause Kyle came on board a little late. Farmer I'm sure makes his own grades and assesses what the coaching staff has. If there are any discrepancies I'm sure they talk.
Well they didn' thave DQ very high I guess. Just around Average probably.
I thought DQ was one of the steady solid players on this team - bouncing from one D system to another. But we are going for a change on it. Banner wasn't all that stupid and his 30 year old thingy on certain positions (Not OL) do apply. Also as much as I like Heckert that deal was just bound for trouble...of course it was made for him to be our MLB in the 4-3.
Still like the guy. 7 teams have contacted him. I would assume if the money is good he would be re-united with Horton.
FA..hey wake me up when Kuechely is available...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086 |
It's funny but within 70 or so days, all questions will be answered...LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,810
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,810 |
I really like DQ. He was a great leader and role model for young players.
But I believe if you look at the deal Dansby got last year, as dj outlined, demanding that 4 mil. roster bonus pretty much priced himself out of things.
But it wouldn't surprise me if other players want high demands due to the lack of stability. Something that may very well mean we either overpay or it bites us in the behind. Time will tell I guess.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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