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I've been sitting here wondering if we will go back to the 4-3 or stick with a 3-4. Without any internal knowledge or anything I believe that we could be making a switch back to the 4-3. I know we need to invest heavy on offense in this draft. MP did say he would make the D work around the talent we have on the team. Clearly, we just created a huge hole in the middle of the field. I know we won't get a straight answer on which way the D will look until after the draft because that would tip our hand to who we might draft.
We have a ton of depth and talent we can't get on the field with our current DL. If we switch back, we can get more talent on the field at the same time.
We currently do not have a starting MLB let alone two starting ILB's on this team.
I personally think our current roster is still better suited for the 4-3.
Mingo Kruger Sheard could be the LB's. (groves carder Martin eubanks depth)
Rubin Taylor Bryant Hughes Winn Kitchen Sanford Bryant would be our DL (solid depth still)
My question are:
Can Kruger step into the MLB position?
Can Mingo and Sheard play OLB this year?
Will we have more talent on the field in the 4-3 vs 3-4?
How many LB's will we have to pick up switching back to the 4-3?
Can we stick with the 3-4 and have Mingo Sheard and Kruger on the field at the same time?
Can we stick with the 3-4 and let high talent DL play less snaps?
what are your thoughts?
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If we go back to a 4-3, I see us sending Sheard back to DE with Mingo coming in as a Sub rush end. I think Kruger stays on the outside. We draft one of the Top LB's in this draft.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Firstly, I don't see how we are planning to go back to a 3-4 when we just let go of DQ. I know a part of that is money, but DQ becomes so much more valuable in a 4-3, and worth it to pay him.
Aside from that, I think we're such a mashup of 4-3 and 3-4 talent from all the different coaches and GMs that have been picking for us that it doesn't really matter either way.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Which one did we just play in last year? Pick the other, that's what we'll have this year. Book it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Which one did we just play in last year? Pick the other, that's what we'll have this year. Book it.
ahaha
3-4 in 2015!
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I would say that we should just take the best of both and run a 4-4 (which, with Haden and Revis at corner with Byrd/Ward rotating at Safety, I would almost recommend), but I'm sure that would simply guarantee a switch to a 3-3 next season.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We should alternate every year, keep opposing offenses guessing!! We've come close to this of late, but we really havent commited to it.
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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We should alternate every play, keep opposing offenses guessing!!
Fixed it! 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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super... I just got done posting this info on the DQ thread and it may apply to this thread as well...the deal with DQ being cut may have been because the Browns are switching back to the 4-3 and no longer need at 4 LBs.
I was doing some research into the Bills defense with Pettine as their DC and I found footage of the defensive play and appeared that they were playing a 4-3 and a 4-2-5 and in that set they were playing their nickel back all over the place.
Also, looking at the Game Book of the games, the Bills defensive personnel were listed as a 4-3.
Given the Browns personnel, you could be right about playing a 4-3 this season.
Last edited by mac; 02/27/14 03:56 PM.
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I kinda have a feeling like the release of DQ would make us MORE likely to be a 3-4 team. DQ is a 4-3 guy...
Why would we rid a great 4-3 MLB if we're switching back. Our DL is better suited for a 3-4 and our OLBs are better 3-4 OLBs...
We just need ILBs and DQ wasn't one of those, so lets be on our way without him...Just FA pickup a starter quality and a backup quality and draft Shayne Skov.
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It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I say we fool everybody and play a 3-3-5. They'll never see it coming!
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Is Tank Carder still on the team? If we don't like a QB at 4, we can take Clowney and run TCU's 5-2!
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Right now we have the personnel to run the 524 D - Five linemen, two linebackers and four DBs.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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4-3 is a possibility as our strength on D is the DL + 3/4 OLB.
However the defense that Pettine is known for is a Hybrid, multi look defense, that usually spells LBS as in 3-4 and then Change to a 2-5, 4-3 etc.
Either way you look at it we need ILB and more than one!
jmho
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Yes he is and he played some ILB when Roberston went down and then eventually played himself back to special teams as Eubanks took the reps.
Let's run the 46 bear defense 24-7. Even when we go max prevent, teams still pass the ball on us so why not?!?! LMAO
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Quote:
I've been sitting here wondering if we will go back to the 4-3 or stick with a 3-4. Without any internal knowledge or anything I believe that we could be making a switch back to the 4-3. I know we need to invest heavy on offense in this draft. MP did say he would make the D work around the talent we have on the team. Clearly, we just created a huge hole in the middle of the field. I know we won't get a straight answer on which way the D will look until after the draft because that would tip our hand to who we might draft.
I very highly doubt we return to a 43. It should be said that whether with the Ravens, Jets or Buffalo he has never been afraid to switch his front to fit his players. Baltimore is known for it. The Jets are known for it and he switched the Bills because he thought they would play better in a 43 for obvious reasons. I'm the biggest DQ fan but I completely disagree on creating a huge hole. Is it a hole? Sure. But DQ has never been fit for a 3-4. It was his decision to be cut as no team wouldve paid him what he was going to be paid. He was among the worst 34 ILB in the entire league last year. He needed to leave for a 43 team. Robertson was even worse. With the talent we have on D I think they feel it doable to fill the two inside spots in a year. They might not play better but they can't play much worse and they won't cost a dime in comparison.
We have a ton of depth and talent we can't get on the field with our current DL. If we switch back, we can get more talent on the field at the same time.
We have depth in our big men of 300+lbs(34DE & 34 NT). So you want to put 2 of them on the field instead of 3? Aside from maybe Armonty Bryant all of our DL would play DT in a 43. It would be even more of a cluster.
We currently do not have a starting MLB let alone two starting ILB's on this team.
Completely agree but a 43 MLB or OLB has a similar skillset to a 34ILB. So by switching to a 43 you require 3 men who primarily cover and fill gaps as opposed to 2 at ILB in a 34.
I personally think our current roster is still better suited for the 4-3.
Mingo Kruger Sheard could be the LB's. (groves carder Martin eubanks depth)
Mingo, Sheard and Kruger would be DE's in a 43. I suppose it's a longshot for Kruger to play SAM but I'd be surprised. He would be a hell of a chipper on the TE but would be a liability in coverage BIG TIME which he would be asked to do twice as much as a 34 OLB. I get that Von Miller makes people think passrushers can player 43 LB but he's the exception not the rule. He's the only elite passrusher I've ever seen with elite cover skills to his extent. He is an animal.
Rubin Taylor Bryant Hughes Winn Kitchen Sanford Bryant would be our DL (solid depth still)
Like I said only Armonty Bryant could play DE in a 43 of that group. he's the only one who has and who isn't 300+lbs. All of them are DT in a 43.
My question are:
Can Kruger step into the MLB position? Not a chance. He is good at setting the edge but a MLB needs great instincts, quickness and range. He has decent instincts but range and quickness are his biggest weakness. I can't think of a 43 DE who adjusted to 34 OLB THEN 43 MLB like you want him too. It's unheard of.
Can Mingo and Sheard play OLB this year? In a 34 they can. Neither are proven in coverage and playing the run from a 43 OLB spot is very different than setting the edge as a 34 OLB.
Will we have more talent on the field in the 4-3 vs 3-4? In a 34 your reserves are Mingo, Groves, Armonty, Hughes, Winn, and Kitchen. But you would need an ILB even with Robertson. In a 43 realistically you have only Robertson at LB unless you hope Kruger can play SAM. I really doubt he could though or rather it wouldn't benefit us. So you again have Mingo, Armonty, Hughes, Winn, Kitchen but you also have Rubin sitting the bench and need 2 LBs even counting Robertson. There would be a lot of players out of position IMO.
How many LB's will we have to pick up switching back to the 4-3? 3 starters IMO. I suppose we could deal with Robertson being a Sam if he was our worst LB of the group. It might be possible to find 2 LBs better than him but you'd have to use more resources in the draft in the higher rounds than you'd like.
Can we stick with the 3-4 and have Mingo Sheard and Kruger on the field at the same time? I actually think if we drafted a good coverage ILB it might be possible for Kruger to play ILB in a 34 like Gocong did. When we picked him up and drafted Mingo I suggested he play a role like Gocong once Mingo caught on as I was the only anti Robertson one to be found and because I saw him as having a similar skillset but slightly advanced in nearly every facet. I don't want to say he can but I think he has the body and the skills it's just how well would he adjust to calling defenses and shedding blockers to fill holes rather than just sitting outside and setting the edge. I'll give better options at the end wrap up.
Can we stick with the 3-4 and let high talent DL play less snaps? Rubin is in his last contract year. I love the guy but this is basically the last year he has any trade value as it's very unlikely he is retained. Too much money with too much talent knocking the door down. However Des Bryants health is a factor. If he's healthy I say trade Rubin. It's best for him and us. If Des is having issues, keep Rubin and Hughes will start allowing a lot of snaps to spread to Armonty and Winn. Both are excellent counter's to Hughes. I may even consider trading Rubin even if Des is hurt. I love having DL depth but you have to have balance and having 5 or so DL better than any of your ILBs is not a key to success.
what are your thoughts?
I hope you don't think I'm bashing you. Feel free to not believe a word I said but I like to think I know a decent amount of detail on personnel fits in various defenses so I thought I'd offer some educated thoughts. If there is any part of football I have always gravitated towards it was stuff like this ever since I was a kid.
Anywho I want to tell you what I think you'll see. I do think Rubin is gone if not this year then next. Hopefully this year as I'd like to see the young guys battle it out for time to see who is worth resigning long term before Winn and Hughes are up for contracts. Otherwise they'll test FA knowing we are stacked at DL and other teams will pay more than us. It seems crazy as the Browns but our backup big men on the DL are better than a lot of low end starters. Hughes would be coveted as a FA big time if he just repeats his performance.
As far as the entire D I think we should see a few things. Ward, if retained, will play close to the line again. We will invest in at least one good pass coverage ILB to make up for Wards box presence. I somewhat see our D as a hybrid 46 actually with Ward acting as the backed off extra LB. I think we'll use a lot of awesome front s that will keep offenses confused. We could also have issues against no huddle O's for that reason.
I think, because our DL is so strong, you will see them used uniquely in different packages. I think in a likely run situation Hughes could come in next to taylor making our front 4 1300lbs in 3rd and 3. I could see us playing 5 down in obvious pass rushing situations. Maybe having Sheard and Mingo in a wide 9 runner's stance with Kruger and Armonty firing between the G/T and Des Bryant pushing the pocket with our new pass coverage ILB and Ward playing short middle watching for the QB to find an escape lane.
Maybe Sheard and Mingo have a step to make in their development but the collective skillsets of our DL and OLBs are a defensive coaches dream. There is so much versatility. The only issue I have...high percentage passing situations like 3rd and 5 or 6. You can't send the house a ton in situations like that and our weakness is covering the shallow middle and slot. We have to address that. Either by bringing in the best possible coverage ILB or a good no2 CB to allow Skrine to dominate the slot.
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I say we fool everybody and play a 3-3-5. They'll never see it coming!
I'm more of a 11-0 guy myself. Good luck to your QB not getting killed.
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Quote:
Quote:
I say we fool everybody and play a 3-3-5. They'll never see it coming!
I'm more of a 11-0 guy myself. Good luck to your QB not getting killed.
when we want to kill clock, do we go with an 0-11 defense?
#gmstrong
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j/c
thank you all for your insight and I appreciate your thoughts on this!
Im a QB guy now (because of my son) and I don't really pay attention to D like I used to even thought he plays OLB. He really wants to play QB for st eds and so he does of a lot of learning about that and I started to learn more about QB play than anything.
I thought we had Rubin as a DE along with D Bryant? that would leave a combo of Taylor and Winn Kitchen Hughes Bryant etc on DL/DE
I know that people are going to say all kinds of stuff like we should run a 1-10 or whatever.. But I'm actually curious what people think.
It could also be a reason why DQ left. Maybe he decided he had enough of switching back and forth between types of D's.
Last edited by superbowldogg; 02/27/14 05:08 PM.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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5-2 Alignment
Sheard/Kruger - D. Bryant/Hughes - Taylor/Kitchen - A.Bryant/Rubin - Clowney/Mingo
Skov/Carder -- Robertson/Jordan Tripp
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The DQ release is confusing because our strength is definitely the DL. Which means to me we could benefit from a 4-3 defense. Buuut...DQ was definitely more suited towards a 4-3. We also just released an ILB and if we are running the 3-4 defense we have zero starters for two different positions at ILB. Which once again points to running a 4-3, but then why release DQ.
From what I understand Pettine runs a defense based on his players. The problem is that we can neither run the 3-4 or the 4-3 without drafting or FA some kind of ILB. Unless you want Carder and Eubanks as your starting ILBs in a 3-4. So unless we are running a 5-2 we can't say what defense we are running until we sign somebody or are told specifically.
Side note: I kind of miss LJ Fort. I thought that dude was a beast, especially in the eagles game. I had him and Robertson as a tossup for better project, I wouldn't be surprised if Fort wins that battle.
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DQ was too expensive for what his contract was. simple as that.
we needed new ILB with our without him (and I do like him and fully suspect he will find a job soon).
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I say we fool everybody and play a 3-3-5. They'll never see it coming!
I'm more of a 11-0 guy myself. Good luck to your QB not getting killed.
when we want to kill clock, do we go with an 0-11 defense?
Unless you're playing John Elway in the '87 playoffs.
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I still said it was playing defense.
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To try to get things back on track: Quote:
1. Can Kruger step into the MLB position?
2. Can Mingo and Sheard play OLB this year?
3. Will we have more talent on the field in the 4-3 vs 3-4?
4. How many LB's will we have to pick up switching back to the 4-3?
5. Can we stick with the 3-4 and have Mingo Sheard and Kruger on the field at the same time?
6. Can we stick with the 3-4 and let high talent DL play less snaps?
1. I don't think that would be a very solid move at all. I think we will be looking outside the current roster for ILB. Thus our interest in resigning DQ, our interest in Bart Scott, etc.. Personally, I'd be quite content if we snagged Khalil Mack to fill this role.
2. I'm not sold on Mingo, but I think Sheard will improve and Kruger will continue to be solid there.
3. Lord knows.... and, maybe not even He knows.
4. Probably just one ILB plus depth.
5. Not sure we'd want to do this, ever.
6. I don't follow.... rotate them more frequently? You can plan to, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to. All an offense has to do is get a personnel grouping on the field that it think favors them, then go hurry-up. It's good to rotate guys to keep them fresh, it's better to not have to rely on that, or make your plans based upon relying on that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Every year before last year, Pettine's first year with Buffalo, he ran some form of a 3-4 defense. He ran a 4-3 last year mainly because the Bills spent a pooton of money on Mario Williams and they didn't want him to switch positions.
We will be running a base 3-4 with many different fronts according to the situation.
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From what I've been able to determine, we will probably be implementing the '46' defense.
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but I'm sure that would simply guarantee a switch to a 3-3 next season.
That wouldn't be the worst thing.
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All his fronts were stacked in Buffalo and they will be here.
GO BROWNS!
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Shazier. Regardless. We need him. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Shazier. Regardless. We need him.
If he's there at 35 and we've already gotten a QB and one of Cooks, M. Lee, or Beckham than I could get behind that. Something like
1a) QB Manziel/Carr/Bridgewater (I'm happy with any one of these three)
1b) WR Lee/Cooks/Beckham, Jr
2) ILB Shazier
3a) ILB Skov
3b) RB Sankey/Hyde/Seastrunk
4a) FS Brooks / FS Bailey
4b) CB Cockrell/McGill/Desir/Phillip Gaines (Rice)
5) OT James/OG Thomas/OG Steen
6) WR Campanaro / OG-C Linsley/OG-C Larsen/OG Halapio
7) OG-C Linsley/OG-C Larsen/OG Halapio / WR Gallon / WR Ch. Jones
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Really Carr over Bortles... Why is that... not arguing just curious.
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Really Carr over Bortles... Why is that... not arguing just curious.
I think Bortles makes too many bad decisions. I watched him vs. Houston, USF, and Baylor. Also, he doesn't recognize even the most-obvious pre-snap failures. Against USF (maybe it was Baylor? Have to check my notes) there were two times where the defense walked the strong safety directly up to the line of scrimmage, right where the run was designed to go. He snapped the ball and predictably the RB didn't get past the LOS. This happened twice on the same offensive play call in the same game. He has a compact enough release when he's throwing short, but when he needs to put something more on the ball, he really winds into it. His accuracy is not pro-starter level in my opinion. He is not one of my top 5 QBs in the draft.
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fair enough... thanks. Goes along the same lines that others have noted about his football IQ. Man this is tough, every QB this year seems to have some bad warts, I am almost getting to the pont that if Brdigewater is not there at 4 we just pass on QB's and trade down. 
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Man this is tough, every QB this year seems to have some bad warts, I am almost getting to the pont that if Brdigewater is not there at 4 we just pass on QB's and trade down.
IMO he is the only QB worthy of a top 5 pick at the QB position. Far too many questions surrounding the others.
I do believe Bridgewater in undervalued by many though. He is very intelligent and does everything well. Maybe not Luck, but far closer than many seem to think. I actually have him rated higher than I did RG3.
And much safer than RG3. He doesn't run and take as many "health risks" as RG3. Once you get past Bridgewater, the question marks and holes in their games grow.
Actually I believe Bridgewater is such a good draft prospect, that if the Texans pass on him, I would entertain the idea of trying to work a trade up with the Rams to draft Bridgewater.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Honestly I don't really see Kruger as a 4-3 OLB, I don't think he has that side line to side line speed and would also struggle against most TE's and RB's in one on one coverage. He's better served as a pass rusher. The same thing would go for Jabaal Sheard. He played well as a 3-4 OLB last year but he appears to be a more natural fit at as 4-3 style rusher. I think Mingo has the speed and potential to be a 4-3 OLB, as well as Quintin Groves just cause of how athletic they are and their general frames. I would still look for this team to add a linebacker in free agency AND in the first 3 rounds of the draft somewhere.
3-4 or 4-3 I don't really care so long as we're able to rush the passer and get off the field on 3rd downs.
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Teddy is the person I am rooting for. Have been for awhile. QB's with rocket and cannon arms are worthless if they don't possess the IQ to play the game.
Hoyer is a great example to use. Compare our offense and the way it operated with him to Weeden. Hoyer, things moved, Weeden, everything was sooooooooo lethargic.
I hold football IQ over anything else at this point (arm strength, ability to scramble, etc).
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
IMO he is the only QB worthy of a top 5 pick at the QB position. Far too many questions surrounding the others.
I do believe Bridgewater in undervalued by many though.
Who are the many that "undervalue" him? Other than Mourg, who doesn't have him in the top 5?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
I wasn't limiting to this board alone.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
Quote:
Honestly I don't really see Kruger as a 4-3 OLB, I don't think he has that side line to side line speed and would also struggle against most TE's and RB's in one on one coverage. He's better served as a pass rusher. The same thing would go for Jabaal Sheard. He played well as a 3-4 OLB last year but he appears to be a more natural fit at as 4-3 style rusher. I think Mingo has the speed and potential to be a 4-3 OLB, as well as Quintin Groves just cause of how athletic they are and their general frames. I would still look for this team to add a linebacker in free agency AND in the first 3 rounds of the draft somewhere.
3-4 or 4-3 I don't really care so long as we're able to rush the passer and get off the field on 3rd downs.
In the 4-3, Kruger is a DE. I think that he would be excellent in that role.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 4-3 or 3-4 DQ released now what?
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