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"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change."

Admitting you cannot change something, to many, implies lack of control and many, many people just don't like the idea that they are not or cannot be in control of everything in their lives... that there are indeed things of which they are at the complete mercy of others or just circumstance in general.


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I couldn't agree with you more. Its way too easy to point fingers after the fact.

I work at a university now and I'm glad to see that the powers that be here have tried to be proactive. They sent our police to a "rapid deployment" training this past fall. And, this week they are going to a refresher along with area SWAT and the sheriff's office. Hopefully we never have to worry about it.... But at least the community, students, faculty, parents, etc. are aware that the university is attempting to address what is on the minds of many who have loved ones at any college.

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Quote:

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There is only one place to lay the blame...........the shooter.





Here is the monster:








He's not a monster, he's a human being. I know that's tough to swallow, but writing him or others off as 'monsters' will never get us any closer to understanding why.

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Don't tell me how to feel. He's a monster. He's evil. I don't want to hear his sob story, I really don't. You delve into his psyche and tell us all how this will be prevented in the future. Good luck, isn't going to happen.

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And I bet if he was still alive people would want to beat him to death right now.


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Quote:

Don't tell me how to feel. He's a monster. He's evil. I don't want to hear his sob story, I really don't. You delve into his psyche and tell us all how this will be prevented in the future. Good luck, isn't going to happen.




I could care less about his sob story. But calling him a 'monster' and 'evil' dehumanizes him - explains it away much too easily. Guess what -- he's human. Again, tough to swallow...but true.

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History has known plenty of humans that were evil monsters. I'll stick with my opinion on the matter, thanks anyway.

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But calling him a 'monster' and 'evil' dehumanizes him




No. Him blowing away 32 innocent people dehumanizes him.

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Quote:

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But calling him a 'monster' and 'evil' dehumanizes him




No. Him blowing away 32 innocent people dehumanizes him.




Humans throughout history have done the same...it makes him sick, demented, cold-hearted...but still human. He's not an alien that came from another planet, he's not a horror movie villian...he had a mom and a dad and a childhood.

Hitler was human. Dahmer was human. This kid was human.

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Quote:

He's not a monster, he's a human being. I know that's tough to swallow, but writing him or others off as 'monsters' will never get us any closer to understanding why.




I don't see how calling a guy a monster has anything to do with the desire to understand him.


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He was human, now he is a stiff on a lab table awaiting an autopsy. Would be interesting to see if all his brain parts are normal or what if anything is different. Impossible to find out what made his decision making goes so far out of whack but the eggheads should have fun trying. Imagine what went on in his head to make this act possible. At what point ,if any did any doubts come into his mind and why did he decide to end it by killing himself at that point ? Fascinating in a dark way.

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Quote:

Hitler was human. Dahmer was human. This kid was human.




Why does this not surprise me, coming from you?

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Humans throughout history have done the same




And they were monsters too.

Quote:

he had a mom and a dad




Obviously, they were complete failures.

Keep spinning, Phil. It's what you're best at.

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His point was a little deeper than that so it is no surprise that you missed it.

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Quote:

His point was a little deeper than that so it is no surprise that you missed it.




Actually, I did not miss the point at all.

But, thank you for caring.

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We are all aghast at this tragedy, but I think the point PDR is trying to make is that remembering that this is a human behavior, allows us to better counsel ostracized individuals in the future. Trying to understand what issues he was dealing with, and how and where intervention could have made a difference is a step towards prevention.


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Naaahh ! Phil is the Antichrist and is a spinmaster king concerned only with challenging the right leaning establishment . Forget the fact that he was trying to make exactly the point you described.

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this is what I think drives people to give names like "monsters" to people who do this... it's seperation. Seperation from "us", the ones who don't commit acts like this. None of us want to admit that whatever drove this kid to do this horrible thing, there might be just a little bit of it in us, buried way down deep. Of course 99.9999% of us control it and it never makes it anywhere close to the surface... but you are right, he is human. And if I admit that he's human, especially if he's a human that was never beaten or tortured or molested.. then I have to admit that whatever happened to him, could happen to any one of us given the right set of converging circumstances... and most people just aren't prepared to admit that. That's why we dehumanize evil-doers..


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Whatever you guys. I choose to think of him as a monster. You and Phil can tell me I'm wrong all you want. I don't care.

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Watching the coverage right now and they're saying that apparently the kid's creative writing teacher had a lot of concerns about him and went to the university a year ago and nothing was done...also saying that students in his creative writing class had held past conversations in which they were concerned he could be a "school shooter"...don't know if any of this is true or just leapt upon info...

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As I said, I completely understand the point PDR was trying to make.

He just needs to understand that he can't tell others how to feel.

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Well now as a parent that scares the hell out of me. You have kids ,do a good job of raising them and then something like this happens. You made a good point .

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Quote:

Naaahh ! Phil is the Antichrist and is a spinmaster king concerned only with challenging the right leaning establishment .




I wasn't expecting a confession, but I bet it feels really good to get that off your chest.

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Quote:

He just needs to understand that he can't tell others how to feel.



I don't think Phil was telling her how to feel... just commenting on the use of the word "monster"...

I "feel" like the kid is a monster for what he did... but behind what he did yesterday, is a human being with problems none of us will hopefully ever understand.

I don't feel sorry for him, I don't feel remorse for him, I'm quite glad he's dead...


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I think it's ridiculous to argue semantics when someone calls a murderous fiend a monster.

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I wasn't. I was arguing about your choice of words.


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so far DC seems to be the only one on the board who has lost someone he personally knows in this incident...so I will discuss with him anything he wants...and not tell him that what he thinks is ridiculous


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Cool, and he and I will have any conversation we want without your permission.

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I wasn't. I was arguing about your choice of words.





I think that is the same thing.....

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Now who's arguing semantics?


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Oye. This whole thing is just so tragic, it doesn't matter what any of us call him or think. Nothing changes.

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It is....


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Oye. This whole thing is just so tragic, it doesn't matter what any of us call him or think. Nothing changes.




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Hamilton close to Va. Tech tragedy
Jeff Walcoff, Staff Writer
04.17.2007

He's one of the team's most promising young players ready to enter his second season as a Brown. But just over a year ago safety Justin Hamilton was still a student, living the college life on the campus of Virginia Tech University.

Monday's tragedy on the campus, during which a gunman opened fire on a dormitory and then a classroom, killing 33, hit home for the 24-year-old Clintwood, Va. native.

Hamilton had class for three years in Norris Hall, the building in which the second and most deadly set of shootings took place. He used to hang out on the stairway captured on cell phone video by an onlooker Monday as police offers rushed by and gunshots rang in the background.

He still has countless friends and former teammates on campus.

He found out about the incident through text messages and calls, but realized the incident was serious when he received a phone call from a friend who is a SWAT team member in Virginia.

"He sent a message which said he was dispatched to Virginia Tech, which is three hours away," Hamilton said. "When he sent me that message I knew something was really bad. I went straight home, turned on the news and basically I have been watching for the last 24 hours."

Hamilton said he spent 10 hours Monday trying to get in touch with friends to make sure they were okay.

"So far everybody that I know came out okay," Hamilton said. "My teammates came out okay; my old friends, they're okay. I'm thankful for that but it doesn't change the fact that so many people lost their lives.

"I can't express how deeply saddened I am for those people who lost their lives and for the people who cared about them."

Hamilton stressed that Blacksburg, located in Western Virginia about 25 miles from Roanoke, is usually a quaint and safe college town. He said he still will push his sister, a high schooler, to attend the school.

"On a normal day it's a beautiful campus," he said. "The people are very friendly. Campus life is just abundant. It just overflows with life. You see smiling faces. You see people who are just happy to be there.

"You would never think anything like that would happen on any campus but especially not in Blacksburg and not at Virginia Tech. The community and Virginia Tech go hand in hand. It's inconceivable.

"I still am in disbelief. My time there was some of the best years of my life."

Hamilton said it's important, as the tough times continue, for the Virginia Tech community to unite for a better future with the aid of the nation and the world around them.

"Hopefully they can come together and understand they are not alone," Hamilton said. "The campus won't be the same for a long, long time but I think the lives of the people who were killed need to be remembered and honored. At this point, it's important that people come together so this never happens again."


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Virginia Tech tragedy hits home for Browns safety
April 17, 2007

BEREA, Ohio (AP) -- As the tape showed images of gun-toting police and mayhem on Virginia Tech's campus, Browns safety Justin Hamilton was overwhelmed by one thought.

"I would have been in that building if I was still a student there," he said Tuesday. "I really have been struggling with what I would have done or what it was that decided those people's fates."

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Like so many in the Virginia Tech family, Hamilton is grieving over the deaths of 33 people, including a lone gunman, who went on a rampage through a dormitory and classrooms on Virginia Tech's campus in Blacksburg, Va., on Monday.

Hamilton, drafted in the seventh round by Cleveland in 2006, spent five years at the school. In his final three years, he attended classes in Norris Hall, where most of the killings took place.

He was at the Browns' facility working out early Monday when he first learned of a problem at his alma mater. After showering, he was on his way to breakfast when he began getting more information on the unfolding tragedy.

"I started getting text messages and phone calls, and immediately I knew something was going on that was really bad," he said.

One message Hamilton received was from a close friend, a SWAT team member.

"He said he was dispatched to Virginia Tech, which is three hours away," Hamilton said. "When he sent me a message, I knew something was really bad. I went straight home, turned on the news and basically I have been watching for the last 24 hours."

Hamilton watched in disbelief as a video taken by a Virginia Tech student with a cell phone was shown repeatedly. On it, police are seen working their way up to the doors of Norris Hall, which authorities said were apparently chained shut by the shooter.

"There were chills all over my body because I have seen through the eyes of that camera," the 24-year-old player said. "Almost every day of my career I was in that area. It was just like I was watching a normal day on campus except there were guns shots and SWAT teams and police everywhere.

"To think that we might be hearing the last moments of some people's lives. ... I could not get that out of my mind, how it could have been me. I don't understand why I was spared and those people weren't and that has really bothered me."

Hamilton spent Monday afternoon and evening phoning friends on campus, praying everyone he knew was OK. So far, none of the victims has been someone he knows personally.

Hamilton, born in Norfolk, Va., said the losses have rattled everyone with ties to the school and its surrounding, close-knit community. He simply cannot grasp the horror.

"On a normal day, it's a beautiful campus," he said. "Campus life is just abundant. It just overflows with life. You see smiling faces. You see people who are just happy to be there. It's just a great place to go to school it's a great place to grow up. It really rocked me. It's inconceivable."

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BLACKSBURG, Va. - The gunman in the Virginia Tech massacre was a sullen loner who alarmed professors and classmates with his twisted, violence-drenched creative writing and left a rambling note in his dorm room raging against women and rich kids. A chilling picture emerged Tuesday of Cho Seung-Hui — a 23-year-old senior majoring in English — a day after the bloodbath that left 33 people dead, including Cho, who killed himself as police closed in.

News reports said that he may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

A student who attended Virginia Tech last fall provided obscenity- and violence-laced screenplays that he said Cho wrote as part of a playwriting class they both took. One was about a fight between a stepson and his stepfather, and involved throwing of hammers and attacks with a chainsaw. Another was about students fantasizing about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

"When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of," former classmate Ian McFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site. He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

"We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said Cho's writing was so disturbing that he had been referred to the university's counseling service.

"Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be," Rude said. "But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said she did not know when he was referred for counseling, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws. The counseling service refused to comment.

Cho — who arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., where his parents worked at a dry cleaners — left a note in his dorm room that was found after the bloodbath.

A government official, who spoke of condition of anonymity because he had not been authorized to discuss details of the case, said the note had been described to him as "anti-woman, anti-rich kid."

The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that the note railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. ABC, citing law enforcement sources, said that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said there was no evidence so far that Cho left a suicide note, but he said authorities were going through a considerable number of writings.

Citing unidentified sources, the Tribune also said Cho had recently set a fire in a dorm room and had stalked some women.

Monday's rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart — first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died. Two handguns — a 9 mm and a .22-caliber — were found in the classroom building.

The Washington Post quoted law enforcement sources as saying Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.

According to court papers, police found a "bomb threat" note — directed at engineering school buildings — near the victims in the classroom building. In the past three weeks, Virginia Tech was hit with two other bomb threats. Investigators have not connected those earlier threats to Cho.

Cho graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.

At least one of those killed in the rampage, Reema Samaha, graduated from Westfield High in 2006. But there was no immediate word from authorities on whether Cho knew the young woman and singled her out.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.

Classmates painted a similar picture. Some said that on the first day of a British literature class last year, the 30 or so students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

On the sign-in sheet where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, `Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock and a box of practice ammo to Cho 36 days ago for $571.

"He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious," Markell said.

Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But State Police ballistics tests showed one gun was used in both.

And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were on both guns, whose serial numbers had been filed off.

Gov. Tim Kaine said he will appoint a panel at the university's request to review authorities' handling of the disaster. Parents and students bitterly complained that the university should have locked down the campus immediately after the first burst of gunfire and did not do enough to warn people.

Kaine warned against making snap judgments and said he had "nothing but loathing" for those who take the tragedy and "make it their political hobby horse to ride."

On Tuesday afternoon, thousands of people gathered in the basketball arena for a memorial service for the victims, with an overflow crowd of thousands watching on a jumbo TV screen in the football stadium. President Bush and the first lady attended.

"As you draw closer to your families in the coming days, I ask you to reach out to those who ache for sons and daughters who are never coming home," Bush said.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger received a 30-second standing ovation, despite the criticism of the school administration.

With classes canceled for the rest of the week, many students left town in a hurry, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.

Jessie Ferguson, 19, a freshman from Arlington, headed for her car with tears streaming down her cheeks.

"I'm still kind of shaky," she said. "I had to pump myself up just to kind of come out of the building. I was going to come out, but it took a little bit of 'OK, it's going to be all right. There's lots of cops around.'"

She added: "I just don't want to be on campus."

Stories of heroism and ingenuity emerged Tuesday.

Liviu Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was killed after he was said to have protected his students' lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the gunman. And one student, an Eagle Scout, probably saved his own life by using an electrical cord as a tourniquet around his bleeding thigh, a doctor reported.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

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Here is a link to the sickening plays that Cho wrote. I don't know how the professors could have read these and not send him to counseling.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/category/virginia-tech-shooting

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Here is a link to the sickening plays that Cho wrote. I don't know how the professors could have read these and not send him to counseling.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/category/virginia-tech-shooting




In one article I read he was sent to counseling... obviously either he didn't go or it didn't help...


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Liviu Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was killed after he was said to have protected his students' lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the gunman. And one student, an Eagle Scout, probably saved his own life by using an electrical cord as a tourniquet around his bleeding thigh, a doctor reported.




I am always amazed that in every tragic story there is always stories of heros...


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and after I posted that I read this

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esterday at Virginia Tech, we found one in a college classroom. Professor Liviu Librescu was shot while blocking the door to his classroom, thereby impeding the gunman while his students escaped by jumping out of the window.

For Professor Librescu the road to Blacksburg, Virginia was a winding one. Originally a Romanian, Librescu survived the Holocaust and later immigrated with his wife to Israel. In 1986, he took his sabbatical in Virginia and decided to remain, lecturing in mechanics and engineering, and conducting his research at Virginia Tech.

Professor Librescu's sacrfice reminds us that we find "such men" -- our heroes -- not just among native Americans by also among those who come to this country from other lands. His confrontation with a mass murderer who also came here from another land reminds us that the U.S. is a melting pot of good and evil. Evil triumphed yesterday, but the good produced by the effort, energy, and example of those like Professor Librescu is more lasting.




Unreal... truely a hero in my book...

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"Heroes are just ordinary men, that do extraordinary things in extraordinary times."

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