DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Johnny Manziel (Yet Again)

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It's not like the Broncos were terrible. They were 8-8 and Cutler made the Pro Bowl the year Shanahan got fired.

They then hired McDaniels and he blew up everything unnecessarily.

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ou have to remember that football is a gentleman's sport, off-field. People in that line of work are expected to be supportive and positive of other players and coaches. If they feel they can't be that, they'll probably just end up lying so they don't have to speak the truth.... It's just the way it goes sometimes.

I don't know if Jaworski was just being nice or perhaps he really thought Weeden had it?

Regardless, you don't hear many commentators throwing players under the bus, unless it's something major, like a drug bust/rape/whatnot.

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ou have to remember that football is a gentleman's sport, off-field. People in that line of work are expected to be supportive and positive of other players and coaches. If they feel they can't be that, they'll probably just end up lying so they don't have to speak the truth.... It's just the way it goes sometimes.

I don't know if Jaworski was just being nice or perhaps he really thought Weeden had it?

Regardless, you don't hear many commentators throwing players under the bus, unless it's something major, like a drug bust/rape/whatnot.

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Hard to buy that one, especially because he did bash Manziel.

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ou have to remember that football is a gentleman's sport, off-field. People in that line of work are expected to be supportive and positive of other players and coaches. If they feel they can't be that, they'll probably just end up lying so they don't have to speak the truth.... It's just the way it goes sometimes.

I don't know if Jaworski was just being nice or perhaps he really thought Weeden had it?

Regardless, you don't hear many commentators throwing players under the bus, unless it's something major, like a drug bust/rape/whatnot.

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Hard to buy that one, especially because he did bash Manziel.

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I wonder if Jaworski liked Weeden in his college days or in the pros? Just about anyone should have been able to see that he didn't have it while playing pro.

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ou have to remember that football is a gentleman's sport, off-field. People in that line of work are expected to be supportive and positive of other players and coaches. If they feel they can't be that, they'll probably just end up lying so they don't have to speak the truth.... It's just the way it goes sometimes.

I don't know if Jaworski was just being nice or perhaps he really thought Weeden had it?

Regardless, you don't hear many commentators throwing players under the bus, unless it's something major, like a drug bust/rape/whatnot.

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Hard to buy that one, especially because he did bash Manziel.

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I wonder if Jaworski liked Weeden in his college days or in the pros? Just about anyone should have been able to see that he didn't have it while playing pro.

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If you look at Weedens rookie numbers, they werent "bad" he just happened to come in the same class that had Luck and RG3...

So when the idea is proposed that the new offense (Norv/Chuds) fits his style perfectly, it was easier for some (myself included) to buy into the idea that he could be a starter...

At that point I wasn't aware he was football dumb. Found out quickly...

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Oh No,, You didn't say you changed your mind did you? I mean, circumstances and and what you knew changed and you changed your thinking? How dare you LOL

You know, some would call you a liar for that! LOL

Just in case you weren't aware, if it's in purple, it's meant to be sarcasm

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I'd almost be willing to bet a months salary that the Browns will not take him at 4.

Johnny Football has a history of being a Diva/ being outspoken
Shanny has a history with Diva/outspoken QB's and it never ends well. McNabb/RG3
However, he gets the most he can out of Quarterbacks that are more laid back and coachable.

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There is no consensus about who the Texans will take with the No. 1 overall pick of the 2014 NFL draft, if they even select a player at all. But this is certain: If the Texans use their potential franchise-changing pick to select a quarterback, Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater, Central Florida's Blake Bortles or Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel will greet NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on May 8 in New York.

Two local college defensive coordinators – who have more than 50 combined years of coaching, including stints in the NFL, Southeastern and Big 12 Conferences -- recently opened their film rooms to the Houston Chronicle, providing a detailed look at how they countered, attacked and mostly tried to survive Bridgewater, Bortles and Manziel.

The University of Houston faced Central Florida and Louisville in back-to-back road contests last November. The Cougars fell in both but David Gibbs' defense contained Bridgewater and Bortles, while holding the latter to his only game of the season when the Knights quarterback threw more interceptions (one) than touchdowns (zero).

"I see two safe picks. Two good dudes, good team leaders, good guys, all the tools. I don't see the bust," said Cougars defensive coordinator Gibbs, who served as the Texans' defensive backs coach from 2009-10.

Rice opened its 2013 season in College Station. Manziel only played the second half because a half-game suspension. But he was more efficient than he was all year, completing 6-of-8 passes for 94 yards, three touchdowns and a 297.5 passer rating.

"He's like carrying nitroglycerin around," Owls defensive coordinator Chris Thurmond said. "If you put it in the trunk of your car, you might get it where you're going. But, boy, you're always afraid it's going to blow up."

Gibbs and Thurmond were careful in their assessments about the prospects, who will showcase their skills a final time at their upcoming pro days. Bridgewater will be Monday, Bortles on Wednesday and Manziel on March 27.

The coordinators declined to be overly critical, respecting the unwritten rules of their profession. The duo also acknowledged everything from the offensive systems the quarterbacks' schools employed to the fact Houston and Rice weren't seen as must-win opponents limited the scope of their evaluations.

But the game tapes ultimately backed the current general reads on Bridgewater, Bortles and Manziel. Bridgewater is highly polished and appears to be pro-ready, yet at times lacks buzz and a knockout punch. Bortles' frame, arm and long-term potential shine, as do his rawness and the reality he's the least prepared for Week 1. Manziel's in another world. He's electric and dynamic, often operating off pure instinct. He's also unconventional, unpredictable and falls somewhere between Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton and Tim Tebow after two thrilling but volatile years as the Aggies' starting QB.

"Sometimes in coaching, we want to make this a creative, robotic game," Thurmond said. "This is not a robotic game. This is a creative, reaction game and he proves it."

Teddy Bridgewater

Gibbs got Bortles and Bridgewater at the perfect time. The late-season Nov. 9 and 16 American Athletic Conference road matchups weren't ideal for the Cougars, who dropped from a season-best six games above .500 to 7-3. But Gibbs had more than two months' worth of game film as he prepared for the duo and the Cougars' defense didn't break in either matchup, only giving up 39 combined points and never allowing Bortles to fully lock in.

Based off the Cougars' video, Bridgewater clearly edged Bortles in several key categories. The 6-foot-2, 214-pound Louisville junior commanded a more pristine pro-style system, expertly adhered to the Cardinals' game plan and displayed everything from better execution to sharper accuracy and greater athleticism.

"Teddy can make all the throws. He gets rid of the ball quick. He is well-coached. … Very polished and impressive," Gibbs said.

During a season that saw Bridgewater complete 71 percent of his passes for 3,970 yards, 31 touchdowns and just four interceptions, he was 19-of-29 for 203 yards against the Cougars. Like Bortles, though, Bridgewater didn't record a touchdown versus Gibbs' defense and Louisville's QB stuck to the script Nov. 16 at Cardinal Stadium: play smart and efficient; only attack when there's a clear opening; let the running game and defense kill the clock.

Utilizing a high, quick release, smooth footwork and strong eyes, Bridgewater blended short slants and midfield crossing patterns with bootlegs, handoffs, bubble screens and an occasional deep route -- set up by deceptive play-action -- to wear down the Cougars. He stuck to called plays and quickly dissected the defense at the line of scrimmage, often employed fake audibles, regularly opted for the safe pass and rarely strayed from the norm.

"If I'm an offensive coach, if I'm a quarterback guy, this is exactly the kind of guy I want," Gibbs said. "He'll do exactly what you tell him to do."

When the Cougars utilized a nickel-based blitz, Bridgewater altered his approach and "took what was there." When the Cardinals faced a short-yardage, third-down situation – which saw the Cougars playing three defenders deep and keeping a single safety high -- Bridgewater turned Gibbs' defense upside down, throwing downfield and near the sideline.

"He knows where to go with the ball," Gibbs said. "You throw the ball outside the off man for a three-deep coverage, which he does."

Gibbs noticed facets of Bridgewater's game that require pro touchups. He at times checked down too often – likely staying within Louisville's prescribed system – didn't use a three-step drop from behind center and had a tendency to immediately bring the ball toward his ear when catching a snap from shotgun – a red blinking light that screams "pass" in the pros.

"This is something they'll change for him," Gibbs said. "In the NFL, you cannot catch from shotgun and hold the ball up."

The rough edges were offset by Bridgewater's overall precision and rarely seen but intriguing traits, including his ability to smoothly escape the pocket and sharply throw while scrambling.

"This kid, he can run, man. Make no mistake about it," Gibbs said. "He just doesn't do it very often."

By the time the room lights were flicked back on and Bortles' game tape was being cued up, Gibbs had translated four quarters of Bridgewater vs. the Cougars into four words.

"He's the whole package," Gibbs said.

Blake Bortles

Gibbs turned to Penn State – former home of new Texans coach Bill O'Brien – in the attempt to decipher Bortles.

On Sept. 14, Central Florida pulled off a surprising 34-31 victory against O'Brien's Nittany Lions in State College, Pa. Five games later, Bortles' Knights hosted the Cougars in Orlando, Fla. Gibbs borrowed a Penn State blitz to attack Bortles and the Cougars defensive coordinator entered a Nov. 9 matchup believing his gutsy defense could also surprise.

"I thought we could pick the ball off from Bortles a couple times," Gibbs said.

The Cougars did once and they sacked the 6-5, 232-pound Bortles twice, holding the Central Florida junior to 17-of-24 passing for 210 yards, with six rushes for -10 yards.

"I don't know that anybody can just knock this guy and say there's something that he can't do," Gibbs said. "But is he the athlete that Teddy is? Is he as accurate as Teddy is? Probably not."

When Bortles was on target, he was stronger than Bridgewater. And the primary pro evaluation that was missing from the Cougars' game tapes – the prospects' NFL ceilings – temporarily became evident when the larger, thicker Bortles reared back and unleashed a crossfield, downfield arrow that was perfectly placed and perfectly thrown.

"He does have a bigger windup than Teddy," Gibbs said. "But it is a freakin' great throw."

Like Bridgewater, Bortles ran a pro-style system featuring under-center calls, a quick three-step dropback, play-action passes and bootlegs. Yet Bortles did not check off or down as often, at times failed to recognize blitz packages and fell prey to Gibbs' third-down multiple defense, killing a potential first-quarter scoring drive that abruptly ended at the Cougars' 9-yard line.

On third-and-4, Gibbs employed a scheme that appeared to be a soft zone. Bortles thought he knew what the Cougars were running and threw a quick in route as a response. At the same time his receiver pulled up, Cougars defensive back Trevon Stewart sliced in, picking off the potential No. 1 pick and silencing the Knights' threat.

"Clearly, there's no question he knows the coverage, right? Why did he throw it right to us?" Gibbs said. "He has shown that he will do this every now and then. (Bridgewater), you never saw him do this."

But there were also Bortles' arm, size and stability, which increasingly stood out as the quarters wound down.

After rewatching video replays of two intriguing but still developing QBs the Texans have been evaluating for months, Gibbs jokingly re-emphasized the one thing he knew going into the film breakdowns: The former Texans coach is glad he's not making a decision that could alter the franchise's direction for the next decade.

"There's really nothing glaring about either one of the guys, which makes it that much harder for the Texans to make their pick," Gibbs said

Johnny Manziel

Thurmond has devoted more than 30 years of his life to college football. Rice's defensive coordinator has never seen anyone – on the field or on film – like Manziel.

Thurmond rolled two tapes to prove it.

The first, Thurmond turned to when he prepared for the Owls' 2013 season-opener: Texas A&M's 29-24 victory at Alabama on Nov. 10, 2012. The game that solidified the Cult of Manziel and helped make the Kerrville native the first freshman Heisman Trophy winner in history.

The second was Manziel's post-autograph controversy debut, via the Aggies' 52-31 home win against Rice on Aug. 31 at Kyle Field.

Both videos displayed an incredibly talented, highly unorthodox contemporary quarterback whose confidence, charisma and bravado continue to excite and confound NFL personnel. Like Bridgewater, Manziel quickly read defenses and was willing to check down to secondary receivers. Like Bortles, Manziel had the arm to nail crossing routes and didn't hesitate to throw a deep bomb. But there is no one like Manziel in the college or pro ranks, and his backyard, gunslinger style can make instant believers out of conventional coaches who grew up on single-wing tailbacks and true pocket passers.

"What this guy does is, this guy never proofreads his work. He turns his paper in right now," said Thurmond, whose coaching résumé features Oklahoma, the Cougars and the Crimson Tide. "He's not second guessing his reads. He's not saying, 'OK, am I sure I'm right?' He knows he's right. And that's how he plays. … He plays with amazing, amazing confidence."

He also ran a lot – more than any NFL quarterback would ever consider. Bridgewater regularly saw holes in the Cougars' line, yet consistently fired the ball to his nearest receiver, rather than tuck and sprint. Bortles ran 87 times apiece in 2012 and 2013, but is not regarded as a dangerous scrambler. Manziel rushed 19 times in a single game Oct. 12 at Ole Miss and recorded six attempts in one half against Rice.

"He's like a point guard in basketball that can create and he's playing quarterback," Thurmond said. "That's probably his greatest asset, is his ability to create plays."

Manziel made Bridgewater and Bortles look mundane. Against Alabama, the 5-11 ¾, 207-pound QB turned a near-sack into a bobbled ball that was recaptured, sprinted toward his left, squared his shoulders and fired a crossfield bullet that became a video game-like 10-yard touchdown and his signature Heisman moment.

"This kid's physical – he's an unbelievable fighter," Thurmond said. "He has that boxer's mentality about, 'Hey, you might knock me down. But I'm going to get up and I'm going to punch you again.' "

Thurmond sees pieces of Carolina Panthers QB Cam Newton in Manziel, but Newton's size (6-5, 245) creates separation. The most direct comparison is Washington's Robert Griffin III, who blew out Thurmond's Owls in 2011, when RGIII was at Baylor.

Still, Manziel is his own monster. A fascinating but unpredictable quarterback who intrigues the Texans, hailed as everything from a consensus No. 1 pick to no better than a fourth-rounder.

On film, Bridgewater and Bortles appeared promising, but both reinforced the belief the 2014 draft doesn't feature an instant franchise-changer at quarterback. Manziel altered college football's culture at College Station. But a long-asked question still shadows him less than two months before selection day: How will Manziel's act translate in the pros?

"With this guy, I don't know that in any time in college anybody mastered that blueprint," Thurmond said. "Now, if you play him over a long period of time, who knows?"

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unless you're getting a 2015 1st round pick and you're admittedly tanking the 2014 season to take a QB next year. JMHO

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bust??? as in Canton

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I picked a good week to buy some hip waders.

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I feel like level of competition is starting to become a non factor. Over the last 7 years, how many truly great QBs has the SEC produced? I'm saying 7 years because that's when they earned their reputation. The jury is still out on Stafford and Newton.

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I feel like level of competition is starting to become a non factor. Over the last 7 years, how many truly great QBs has the SEC produced? I'm saying 7 years because that's when they earned their reputation. The jury is still out on Stafford and Newton.

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