Johnny Manziel (Yet Again) - DawgTalkers.net

Jaws actually made those comments about Weeden before last season.

You really have some serious issues.

Just for S's & G's ... (this is parody, not a real story)

Nike Signs Johnny Manziel to be the Face of their Child-Sized Shoes and Apparel

DJ Gallo
The Sports Pickle
Mar 7th, 2014

Many NFL scouts and teams have concerns about Johnny Manziel’s size. But Nike showed they think he is just the right size this week, signing the former Heisman winner to a multimillion, multi-year contract that will make Manziel the face of Nike for the youth and pint-sized set.

“Johnny is a unique athlete because he has the talents, abilities and production of a star football player, but he does it in a child-sized body,” said Nike Kids CEO Jeff McGill. “He’s basically what little kids everywhere dream about when they’re playing sports.”

The company had originally planned to sign Manziel to a typical athlete endorsement deal and brought him to their Oregon headquarters last month for a meeting. But they quickly realized most of their products were way too big.

“He looked like a little kid dressing up like his dad,” said Nike CEO Mark Parker. “He couldn’t reach most of the stuff on the racks and the neck of a hooded sweatshirt fell down over his shoulders. We were all kind of bummed out because we realized it wasn’t going to work out with Nike and Johnny, but then it hit me … Nike kids!”

Manziel will now help sell Nike child-sized shoes and athletic wear, but also lifestyle wear such as pants and shirts. And it will all be done under the new Nike Kids tag line: “Just Play.”

“It’s a better fit than we ever cold have dreamed of,” said McGill. “We wanted to expand into casual clothing and Johnny makes that natural for us because, let’s be honest, much of what makes Johnny Manziel Johnny Manziel comes from things that happen off the field, out of uniform. And the ‘Just Play’ line speaks to kids, but it also says something about having fun with sports and life — just like Johnny does. It’s perfect.”

The former Texas A&M quarterback says he’s excited to join the Nike family.

“Nike has been great to work with,” he said. “I’m looking forward to meeting a lot of MILFs through this ad campaign.”

http://www.sportspickle.com/2014/03/nike-signs-johnny-manziel-face-child-sized-shoes-apparel

@ Dave -

Very, very funny!

Thanks for posting that. It cracked me up!

Trickshot Manziel with Dude Perfect

Thought was funny and great to watch. lol how about Dude Perfect in the 3rd round =)

Manziel is an enigma to me. If you have seen my previous posts, I love Bridgewater at #4. Manziel has too many ifssss (ssss on purpose). Yet if we took him at #4 I wouldn't be too upset.

Thats the thing, I believe he is 2nd round talent but I wouldn't cry if we too him at #4. ie an enigma.

he has the large hands that I love in a QB... yet I hate how he just throws it up when in trouble. I actually like his pocket awareness, but he scrambles too early.

Thing is i am scared we will take Carr.. who I hate (he is Weeden want to be). But build an offence around Manziel, we may have something.

The more I read about Manziel and Bortles, the more concerns I have. I am coming around to Bridgewater at 4, or the best available player at a different position. (just not Clowney, who I worry about from a motivation standpoint, especially on a team that has struggled in recent .... like the past dozen plus ... years)

IDK, Clowney might look good on this revamped D and I believe Dansby and Whitner will supply both strong and vocal leadership.

I'd almost be willing to bet a months salary that the Browns will not take him at 4.

Johnny Football has a history of being a Diva/ being outspoken
Shanny has a history with Diva/outspoken QB's and it never ends well. McNabb/RG3
However, he gets the most he can out of Quarterbacks that are more laid back and coachable.

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I'd almost be willing to bet a months salary that the Browns will not take him at 4.

Johnny Football has a history of being a Diva/ being outspoken
Shanny has a history with Diva/outspoken QB's and it never ends well. McNabb/RG3
However, he gets the most he can out of Quarterbacks that are more laid back and coachable.

I know it's easy to throw the "diva" tag on him, but if you followed him last year at all, his entire attitude seemed to change after that first game when he sat out the beginning, and then got a tongue lashing from his coach for showboating...

Assuming everything else were to check out, I think his personality would be a breath of fresh air with that team. They need something different. I think some of these players have to be tired of the "woe is me" attitude that goes on with these players after games, we all know that us fans are sick of it.

I just think he carries far too many questions and bad habits that need to be coached to consider him at #4.

It seems he gets happy feet to run when the need to run simply isn't there. There will still be a good pocket and he hasn't went through his progressions and he takes off.

Seems a lot of his passes were just tossed up. That's fine when you have a Mike Evans against NCAA average CB's. But not at the pro level. When he does run, he has the ball out away from his body. Nothing in regards to ball security.

I don't question his attitude and will to succeed. But if every QB who had those attributes did succeed, the NFL wouldn't have a shortage of NFL franchise QB's.

I know many disagree with me, but I see as many or more questions about Manziel as I see answers. I would need to see a more well rounded QB and someone who goes through their progressions better than Manziel for me to consider taking that high in the draft.

But I have a feeling someone will take him top 10.

That's what I meant when I said assuming everything else checked out. If the Browns feel ok about developing him to be a better pocket passer, and he can process the game and all that, then I don't think they should hold back because of a perceived "diva" attitude.

Like I said, projecting QB's from college to pro is so hard. People forget how damn good Colt McCoy and Brandon Weeden were in college. They were both really fun to watch...

It really is hard to make that projection. I just don't think Manziel is very good at working through his progressions.

My gut tells me he'd have some good games and some awful games but most importantly he'd be hurt quite often. I don't think he will be disciplined enough to know when to slide/throw it away vs. try to run for his life... I see a LOT of running for his life lol.

Rice played Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel this past season. Their defensive coordinator sat down with this writer and broke down some game tape of each QB. I thought it was pretty insightful.

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There is no consensus about who the Texans will take with the No. 1 overall pick of the 2014 NFL draft, if they even select a player at all. But this is certain: If the Texans use their potential franchise-changing pick to select a quarterback, Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater, Central Florida's Blake Bortles or Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel will greet NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on May 8 in New York.

Two local college defensive coordinators – who have more than 50 combined years of coaching, including stints in the NFL, Southeastern and Big 12 Conferences -- recently opened their film rooms to the Houston Chronicle, providing a detailed look at how they countered, attacked and mostly tried to survive Bridgewater, Bortles and Manziel.

The University of Houston faced Central Florida and Louisville in back-to-back road contests last November. The Cougars fell in both but David Gibbs' defense contained Bridgewater and Bortles, while holding the latter to his only game of the season when the Knights quarterback threw more interceptions (one) than touchdowns (zero).

"I see two safe picks. Two good dudes, good team leaders, good guys, all the tools. I don't see the bust," said Cougars defensive coordinator Gibbs, who served as the Texans' defensive backs coach from 2009-10.

Rice opened its 2013 season in College Station. Manziel only played the second half because a half-game suspension. But he was more efficient than he was all year, completing 6-of-8 passes for 94 yards, three touchdowns and a 297.5 passer rating.

"He's like carrying nitroglycerin around," Owls defensive coordinator Chris Thurmond said. "If you put it in the trunk of your car, you might get it where you're going. But, boy, you're always afraid it's going to blow up."

Gibbs and Thurmond were careful in their assessments about the prospects, who will showcase their skills a final time at their upcoming pro days. Bridgewater will be Monday, Bortles on Wednesday and Manziel on March 27.

The coordinators declined to be overly critical, respecting the unwritten rules of their profession. The duo also acknowledged everything from the offensive systems the quarterbacks' schools employed to the fact Houston and Rice weren't seen as must-win opponents limited the scope of their evaluations.

But the game tapes ultimately backed the current general reads on Bridgewater, Bortles and Manziel. Bridgewater is highly polished and appears to be pro-ready, yet at times lacks buzz and a knockout punch. Bortles' frame, arm and long-term potential shine, as do his rawness and the reality he's the least prepared for Week 1. Manziel's in another world. He's electric and dynamic, often operating off pure instinct. He's also unconventional, unpredictable and falls somewhere between Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton and Tim Tebow after two thrilling but volatile years as the Aggies' starting QB.

"Sometimes in coaching, we want to make this a creative, robotic game," Thurmond said. "This is not a robotic game. This is a creative, reaction game and he proves it."

Teddy Bridgewater

Gibbs got Bortles and Bridgewater at the perfect time. The late-season Nov. 9 and 16 American Athletic Conference road matchups weren't ideal for the Cougars, who dropped from a season-best six games above .500 to 7-3. But Gibbs had more than two months' worth of game film as he prepared for the duo and the Cougars' defense didn't break in either matchup, only giving up 39 combined points and never allowing Bortles to fully lock in.

Based off the Cougars' video, Bridgewater clearly edged Bortles in several key categories. The 6-foot-2, 214-pound Louisville junior commanded a more pristine pro-style system, expertly adhered to the Cardinals' game plan and displayed everything from better execution to sharper accuracy and greater athleticism.

"Teddy can make all the throws. He gets rid of the ball quick. He is well-coached. … Very polished and impressive," Gibbs said.

During a season that saw Bridgewater complete 71 percent of his passes for 3,970 yards, 31 touchdowns and just four interceptions, he was 19-of-29 for 203 yards against the Cougars. Like Bortles, though, Bridgewater didn't record a touchdown versus Gibbs' defense and Louisville's QB stuck to the script Nov. 16 at Cardinal Stadium: play smart and efficient; only attack when there's a clear opening; let the running game and defense kill the clock.

Utilizing a high, quick release, smooth footwork and strong eyes, Bridgewater blended short slants and midfield crossing patterns with bootlegs, handoffs, bubble screens and an occasional deep route -- set up by deceptive play-action -- to wear down the Cougars. He stuck to called plays and quickly dissected the defense at the line of scrimmage, often employed fake audibles, regularly opted for the safe pass and rarely strayed from the norm.

"If I'm an offensive coach, if I'm a quarterback guy, this is exactly the kind of guy I want," Gibbs said. "He'll do exactly what you tell him to do."

When the Cougars utilized a nickel-based blitz, Bridgewater altered his approach and "took what was there." When the Cardinals faced a short-yardage, third-down situation – which saw the Cougars playing three defenders deep and keeping a single safety high -- Bridgewater turned Gibbs' defense upside down, throwing downfield and near the sideline.

"He knows where to go with the ball," Gibbs said. "You throw the ball outside the off man for a three-deep coverage, which he does."

Gibbs noticed facets of Bridgewater's game that require pro touchups. He at times checked down too often – likely staying within Louisville's prescribed system – didn't use a three-step drop from behind center and had a tendency to immediately bring the ball toward his ear when catching a snap from shotgun – a red blinking light that screams "pass" in the pros.

"This is something they'll change for him," Gibbs said. "In the NFL, you cannot catch from shotgun and hold the ball up."

The rough edges were offset by Bridgewater's overall precision and rarely seen but intriguing traits, including his ability to smoothly escape the pocket and sharply throw while scrambling.

"This kid, he can run, man. Make no mistake about it," Gibbs said. "He just doesn't do it very often."

By the time the room lights were flicked back on and Bortles' game tape was being cued up, Gibbs had translated four quarters of Bridgewater vs. the Cougars into four words.

"He's the whole package," Gibbs said.

Blake Bortles

Gibbs turned to Penn State – former home of new Texans coach Bill O'Brien – in the attempt to decipher Bortles.

On Sept. 14, Central Florida pulled off a surprising 34-31 victory against O'Brien's Nittany Lions in State College, Pa. Five games later, Bortles' Knights hosted the Cougars in Orlando, Fla. Gibbs borrowed a Penn State blitz to attack Bortles and the Cougars defensive coordinator entered a Nov. 9 matchup believing his gutsy defense could also surprise.

"I thought we could pick the ball off from Bortles a couple times," Gibbs said.

The Cougars did once and they sacked the 6-5, 232-pound Bortles twice, holding the Central Florida junior to 17-of-24 passing for 210 yards, with six rushes for -10 yards.

"I don't know that anybody can just knock this guy and say there's something that he can't do," Gibbs said. "But is he the athlete that Teddy is? Is he as accurate as Teddy is? Probably not."

When Bortles was on target, he was stronger than Bridgewater. And the primary pro evaluation that was missing from the Cougars' game tapes – the prospects' NFL ceilings – temporarily became evident when the larger, thicker Bortles reared back and unleashed a crossfield, downfield arrow that was perfectly placed and perfectly thrown.

"He does have a bigger windup than Teddy," Gibbs said. "But it is a freakin' great throw."

Like Bridgewater, Bortles ran a pro-style system featuring under-center calls, a quick three-step dropback, play-action passes and bootlegs. Yet Bortles did not check off or down as often, at times failed to recognize blitz packages and fell prey to Gibbs' third-down multiple defense, killing a potential first-quarter scoring drive that abruptly ended at the Cougars' 9-yard line.

On third-and-4, Gibbs employed a scheme that appeared to be a soft zone. Bortles thought he knew what the Cougars were running and threw a quick in route as a response. At the same time his receiver pulled up, Cougars defensive back Trevon Stewart sliced in, picking off the potential No. 1 pick and silencing the Knights' threat.

"Clearly, there's no question he knows the coverage, right? Why did he throw it right to us?" Gibbs said. "He has shown that he will do this every now and then. (Bridgewater), you never saw him do this."

But there were also Bortles' arm, size and stability, which increasingly stood out as the quarters wound down.

After rewatching video replays of two intriguing but still developing QBs the Texans have been evaluating for months, Gibbs jokingly re-emphasized the one thing he knew going into the film breakdowns: The former Texans coach is glad he's not making a decision that could alter the franchise's direction for the next decade.

"There's really nothing glaring about either one of the guys, which makes it that much harder for the Texans to make their pick," Gibbs said

Johnny Manziel

Thurmond has devoted more than 30 years of his life to college football. Rice's defensive coordinator has never seen anyone – on the field or on film – like Manziel.

Thurmond rolled two tapes to prove it.

The first, Thurmond turned to when he prepared for the Owls' 2013 season-opener: Texas A&M's 29-24 victory at Alabama on Nov. 10, 2012. The game that solidified the Cult of Manziel and helped make the Kerrville native the first freshman Heisman Trophy winner in history.

The second was Manziel's post-autograph controversy debut, via the Aggies' 52-31 home win against Rice on Aug. 31 at Kyle Field.

Both videos displayed an incredibly talented, highly unorthodox contemporary quarterback whose confidence, charisma and bravado continue to excite and confound NFL personnel. Like Bridgewater, Manziel quickly read defenses and was willing to check down to secondary receivers. Like Bortles, Manziel had the arm to nail crossing routes and didn't hesitate to throw a deep bomb. But there is no one like Manziel in the college or pro ranks, and his backyard, gunslinger style can make instant believers out of conventional coaches who grew up on single-wing tailbacks and true pocket passers.

"What this guy does is, this guy never proofreads his work. He turns his paper in right now," said Thurmond, whose coaching résumé features Oklahoma, the Cougars and the Crimson Tide. "He's not second guessing his reads. He's not saying, 'OK, am I sure I'm right?' He knows he's right. And that's how he plays. … He plays with amazing, amazing confidence."

He also ran a lot – more than any NFL quarterback would ever consider. Bridgewater regularly saw holes in the Cougars' line, yet consistently fired the ball to his nearest receiver, rather than tuck and sprint. Bortles ran 87 times apiece in 2012 and 2013, but is not regarded as a dangerous scrambler. Manziel rushed 19 times in a single game Oct. 12 at Ole Miss and recorded six attempts in one half against Rice.

"He's like a point guard in basketball that can create and he's playing quarterback," Thurmond said. "That's probably his greatest asset, is his ability to create plays."

Manziel made Bridgewater and Bortles look mundane. Against Alabama, the 5-11 ¾, 207-pound QB turned a near-sack into a bobbled ball that was recaptured, sprinted toward his left, squared his shoulders and fired a crossfield bullet that became a video game-like 10-yard touchdown and his signature Heisman moment.

"This kid's physical – he's an unbelievable fighter," Thurmond said. "He has that boxer's mentality about, 'Hey, you might knock me down. But I'm going to get up and I'm going to punch you again.' "

Thurmond sees pieces of Carolina Panthers QB Cam Newton in Manziel, but Newton's size (6-5, 245) creates separation. The most direct comparison is Washington's Robert Griffin III, who blew out Thurmond's Owls in 2011, when RGIII was at Baylor.

Still, Manziel is his own monster. A fascinating but unpredictable quarterback who intrigues the Texans, hailed as everything from a consensus No. 1 pick to no better than a fourth-rounder.

On film, Bridgewater and Bortles appeared promising, but both reinforced the belief the 2014 draft doesn't feature an instant franchise-changer at quarterback. Manziel altered college football's culture at College Station. But a long-asked question still shadows him less than two months before selection day: How will Manziel's act translate in the pros?

"With this guy, I don't know that in any time in college anybody mastered that blueprint," Thurmond said. "Now, if you play him over a long period of time, who knows?"

Houston Chronicle

A lot of what this article does is reinforce what we already know. Bridgewater is the most ready and safest; Bortles has potential, but can't start away; and Manziel is a lightning rod who carries "nitroglycerin around."

One thing that stuck out to me is the fact that Bortles knew what coverage Rice was in, yet still tried to force the throw. I really want nothing to do with Bortles. I am tired of QBs who don't know what they are doing (Weeden, McCoy, Frye, etc.).

Another thing was that Bridgewater was using dummy audibles in college. I don't know if this is rare or not, but either way it is impressive. Bridgewater really reminds me of Matt Ryan; super smart, prepared, and coachable. But he doesn't have elite skills. You can definitely win with him, but he will never be an elite QB in the league on the level of Rodgers (or someone similar). I am fine with that.

(I am posting in all three threads about the QBs so it can contribute to the individual discussions of each QB.)

Many mock drafts are now projecting Johnny Manziel to fall in the draft possibly as far as our #26 pick and even the 2nd round.

Blake Bortles and Teddy Bridewater will be our pick at #4 unless they are both off the board. If that was to happen should the Browns stick to the plan of selecting a QB at #4 and just take Manziel. Take a player like Watkins or Robinson at #4 and hope Manziel falls to #26. Or trade down from #4 pick up additional picks and select Manziel between #4 and #26?

If both Bortles & Teddy are gone and either Sammy or Clowney are sitting there at 4, I don't know how you justify passing either of them up to trade down for Manziel, unless you're getting a 2015 1st round pick and you're admittedly tanking the 2014 season to take a QB next year. JMHO

Also, depends on how far you would trade, because moving past 8 wouldn't guarantee he'd even be there.

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unless you're getting a 2015 1st round pick and you're admittedly tanking the 2014 season to take a QB next year. JMHO

I can not see how not taking a QB high is tanking the season. We have Hoyer, and there are FA QBs available. Plus, some of the lower graded QBs could be had. With the moves made thus far, tanking is a foolish notion.

I'm saying trading down to a point where Manziel becomes a value pick would cost another team a 2015 1st. That move, IMHO, would smack of coveting a QB in next years draft, and would take the tanking of the season to get into position to take one. I'm not saying it's something we will do, or would even consider. Just like I doubt we will trade down to get Manziel. Just don't see it happening. Obviously, those enamored with Johnny Football will see it much differently.

Me personally, I wouldn't take Manziel at all unless it were in the second round or beyond... let alone trade down for him.

Ditto. I'd take Garoppolo before I'd draft Manziel.

+1

The only thing about Garoppolo I worry about is his small hands. Maybe a fetish

but I always worry about QB with small hands.

Merrill Hodge described 100% how I feel about Johnny Manziel. Dude will be a HUGE bust in my opinion.

bust??? as in Canton

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bust??? as in Canton

I picked a good week to buy some hip waders.

You don't worry about his propensity to force the ball into tight coverages? What about the fact that he played against inferior competition? Or, that he has to stop and reset when he has to scramble?

None of those things bother you?

I feel like level of competition is starting to become a non factor. Over the last 7 years, how many truly great QBs has the SEC produced? I'm saying 7 years because that's when they earned their reputation. The jury is still out on Stafford and Newton.

Okay. But then why is it okay for people to use that against Teddy?

I'm confused...

So if we can trade back 5-7 spots.. pick up a '15 1st... and still get Manziel...

That means we're ganna take a QB in '15??

But... we just took Manziel...

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I feel like level of competition is starting to become a non factor. Over the last 7 years, how many truly great QBs has the SEC produced? I'm saying 7 years because that's when they earned their reputation. The jury is still out on Stafford and Newton.

Disagree on that one; Stafford can sling it like nobodies business, but he's prone to mistakes because of the fact that he throws so often (having Calvin Johnson doesn't hurt either). Newton's gotten better as a passer, but he struggles sometimes in reading defenses; especially those that can take away his ability to run.

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I feel like level of competition is starting to become a non factor. Over the last 7 years, how many truly great QBs has the SEC produced? I'm saying 7 years because that's when they earned their reputation. The jury is still out on Stafford and Newton.

if you are unwilling to count those 2, then how many truly great QBs have been drafted in the last 7 years?

Luck - on his way, sure. not quite there yet.
Ryan - ? I'd put him slightly ahead of Stafford/Cam's class but not "truly great"
Russell Wilson - ? I'd say to slow down that one for now. He is on a Brady-esque start, but lots of growing to do.

Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers were all drafted further back than 7 years. Let's give this thing some time to breath.

Manziel has just as much potential to succeed as Brees and Wilson did. Although I do see him dropping in the draft much like Brees did. It is going to be a big gamble to pull the trigger and draft him early IMO.

I wouldn't be upset if we took Bridgewater, but I'd take Manziel and would be happy with drafting him at #4.

Johnny Football wins games, yeah they be short fellas, but guys like Brees, Flutie and Garcia win because they.just.know.how.to.win.games.

I know there's risk there, but life is risky.
Manziel will spark some excitement in this team and Cleveland.
If he busts as a player or leader, well, we've had plenty of QB disappointments, what's one more?

Longest gruden clip i can find so far..

Maybe its just me, but I'm starting to warm up to the JM. One can't discredit his desire to win. I read the breakdown of the top 4 quarterbacks & when it game to describing JM, it was just a different class of excitement. Should we take the flyer is the thousand dollar question. Interesting to see this play out.

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Longest gruden clip i can find so far..

I don't think you will get an argument from anyone that JM is an exciting player.. I just don't know how his game translates to the Pros.

Johnny has been very quiet lately for Johnny. I hope they have a camera on him draft day, that will be interesting.

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Johnny has been very quiet lately for Johnny. I hope they have a camera on him draft day, that will be interesting.

He has been quiet.. Not sure why. Maybe a few of his friends, parents or agents have said,,, SHUT UP JOHNNY LOL

Anyway, very talented kid. A whole lotta fun to watch.. Again, I just don't know if his game translates to the pros... When it comes to size, it's a question mark but then Brees and Wilson probably had some of the same question marks and both have won SB's

Go figure.

Browns GM Ray Farmer said he will not be at Johnny Manziel's pro day on Thursday. ‪#‎CLE‬

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Browns general manager Ray Farmer revealed at the NFL Annual Meeting on Monday morning that he won't attend quarterback Johnny Manziel's Pro Day Thursday at Texas A&M, and also defended the club's decision not to send key coaches to the Pro Days of other top quarterbacks.

"No, I will not (attend),'' said Farmer said in a sit down with Browns beat writers. "I will tell you that. I will not be going to Johnny Manziel's workout. There's definitely a schedule conflict, and definitely opportunities to talk to all parties that we may or may not be interested in. …A Pro Day of orchestrated throws, I don't know what that tells you. It's a piece of it that people blow up into this great thing. I went to a lot of games and practices this fall. I've seen them throw the ball.''

Farmer stressed that the Browns will get more out of working out their favorite players privately at their schools or near their hometowns. So far, Farmer has been spotted at the Pro Days for Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles, while coach Mike Pettine, offensive Kyle Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains have all skipped those sessions.

"We will have our opportunities to have private workouts,'' he said. "Being in charge of that workout is different than being at a Pro Day where it's orchestrated and scripted.''

He stressed that he loves to keep folks speculating on what the Browns are going to do with their No. 4 overall pick in the May draft.

"Right now the systems that we're using are based on keeping everybody in the dark,'' he said. "I like the idea of, the more we tell everybody, the more of a disadvantage we put ourselves at. The fact that people are guessing as to where we're going and where we've been, it's a good thing in the sense that when you're too visible about certain things, it becomes obvious, and obvious is not good for us.''

He cautioned, "I haven't been everywhere that people have reported that I've been. We're focused on creating on our own ideas and systems…No one really knows what we're doing. …There's this notion that we have to take a quarterback, that we have to do certain things. I would say be careful of the 'have-tos.' ''

As for taking a quarterback at No. 4, he said, "I'm not leaning in any direction.''

He also stressed that he'd be fine heading into the season with Brian Hoyer as his starter for 2014.

“I’m comfortable (with Hoyer),'' he said. "You’ve got to identify the guy that you think can do the role that you’re asking him to do. Once you do that, there’s a lot of guys that’ll come into any team this year as rookies and they’ll contribute.

"They’ll contribute in a big way. So here’s a guy that’s had NFL experience. He’s been in NFL camps. He has some tools to move forward with. The notion of experience is one that to me it can get overplayed. You have to identify truly what the young man is going to be asked to do and can he perform in that role. And if he can, don’t be afraid to move forward in that direction.”

Farmer addressed a number of other topics during his 22-minute interview:

• On Alex Mack waiting to sign his transition tender: "Alex is well within his rights to do the things that he thinks are necessary moving forward. We're still committed to making sure he's a long-term Brown and that's really our focus. …I'm very confident (it can happen). It's the continued interaction, the continued support, the continued vibe that we're giving Alex that will inevitably prevail.''

• On trading up or down in the draft: "I don't think it's ever too soon. Those conversations have already begun. It might be interesting. It's something to keep in the back of your mind, so some of those talks have already begun and I don't know if there's any definitives at the moment. ...I look at the draft as currency. A first-round pick, be it early, be it late, is probably worth five years of a good player at a relative number and same thing down the line. If you can package picks to get a better pick or a better player or somebody that you're targeting, those things should always be considered. I do think there's opportunities to move both up and back in the draft.

• On if the Browns are interested in free agent quarterback Mark Sanchez: “We’re interested in every player that can help us. So if the name is Mark Sanchez, you can apply that to Mark Sanchez. If the name is a different name, you can apply it to that to that person as well.”

* On adding quarterback Rex Grossman, who has a history with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan: “Every player that we look at will fit a need for us. I probably shouldn’t use the word need, but will fit a role. He’ll have a defined way to compete and to play in our offense and our defense. It’s really about driving competition. If we think that guy can come in and compete to be a quality starter, then, yeah, we’ll definitely be interested.”

• On Joe Haden's cryptic tweet Sunday night that "it's a crazy business,” which was apparently in response to a fake tweet that he had been traded to the Eagles: “We have no interest in getting rid of Joe Haden. That’ll make it simple. We have no interest in that at all. …. “We’re excited to try to keep Joe here for longer than today and tomorrow, but extended into the future.”

• On making a play for Matt Schaub: “Yeah, I think that it’s always interesting. Anybody that’s available you’ll discuss. When you get a chance to talk about any player in that regard, you consider it. The fact that he wasn’t on the open market and Houston traded him, those things never really materialized that way.”

• On not making an offer to T.J. Ward: “It’s not a slight on T.J. at all. We recognize his talents. We recognize he’s a good football player, and at the end of the day, there are other good football players. So when you have those conversations, sometimes it works in a way that’s positive for everybody and it works out, and sometimes it doesn’t.”

• On if he'll sign free agent Paul McQuistan and/or defensive end Alex Carrington, who visited last week: “I will remain silent on that for the moment, but we’ll see. We’ll see.”

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._medium=twitter

I like that he's at least out front about stuff like this. The media will turn this into a catastrophe, but I really think you should base draft decisions on private workouts, meetings, and game tape.

If the Browns draft one of these QB's, and he ends up being horrible or at least not starter quality, it won't be because they didn't go to his pro day.

The media is really stretching it, trying to keep irrelevant stories relevant.

LOL this guy is possibly the most tight lipped guy in his role I think I've ever seen.

he tells you stuff but really tells you nothing Cracks me up.

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LOL this guy is possibly the most tight lipped guy in his role I think I've ever seen.

he tells you stuff but really tells you nothing Cracks me up.

He's also secretly on the ballot as a tea party member for both Mayor of Berea and Governor of Ohio.

Johnny Football is athletic

j/c...

I just read the article about Manziel being a Big Bust...it was freaking Hoge...who has dipped pretty much out of sight and I would say DJ knows more about QBs than Hoge. I think he's looking to get his name in the lights again. doing one of these.

so if he calls it he will gain notoriety like Mayock did with his Cutler claim.

Also another note as I read page one by mistake...

Dropping back one more yard can give the same effect of about 6 inches in height. So them who have a kid who is a short QB...like my kid. teach them how to drop back quick n deep. Montana has a good training video actually Walsh's video Montana demonstrating.

DA I remember his 3 step drop was a pitter patter of his giant feet and he didn't get back much at all. He had just as many batted down passes as a Drew Brees if not more.

Also we will be running that stretch zone so that we will probably have a moving pocket a lot and of course that famous naked reverse.

jmho

I went to the draft in 2010 and Merrill Hoge was having a Q&A before Day 2 started. He said when a Jaguars (who had just drafted Tyson Alualu at #10) fan asked who he thought the biggest reach of the 1st round was. Hoge said it was Tim Tebow.

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Johnny Football is athletic

That rim looks like its 7ft.

I was thinking the same thing. But when he is standing under it it looks like his head is pretty far below it.

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I was thinking the same thing. But when he is standing under it it looks like his head is pretty far below it.

Okay, eight feet then.

Thanks for the article.

I like reading Farmer's responses to different questions. It's like he is really, really trying to be "tight lipped," but his answers to other questions belie his true intent.

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...there’s a lot of guys that’ll come into any team this year as rookies and they’ll contribute.

"They’ll contribute in a big way. So here’s a guy that’s had NFL experience. He’s been in NFL camps. He has some tools to move forward with. The notion of experience is one that to me it can get overplayed. You have to identify truly what the young man is going to be asked to do and can he perform in that role. And if he can, don’t be afraid to move forward in that direction.”

Red flag alert:

What he's basically saying here is: screw the AVG vets that have shown to not have high end ceiling. Instead, if you think a rook can become a high end player and has that ceiling, let him start 2-3 seasons to reach that ceiling, no matter what ("don't be afraid", as in taking and goind through the rookie lumps).

He's prospect happy, this pretty much made it official for me.

He also seems to not fill needs in FA in order to keep other teams guessing as to what he'd do in the draft

He has it all bass ackwards, the definition of outsmarting at work...

I hope you are wrong, but that is why I have always absolutely despised having the GM having the final say of the roster.

Johnny Manziel is the perfect QB to take at 4.

He's either going to succeed fantastically or fail fantastically. Highest ceiling. Lowest floor for a QB in the first three rounds.

I take him without question due to the value of a franchise changing guy at QB.

And he has the swagger and moxie to flip the script.

Take him and run.

Let it unfold.

Either we end up with a guy who can change our destiny or a failure.

Lets pick a guy next year then. There's quite a few top end guys.

I might flip our second first to next year. Or our second for a 2015 first. Just for ammo for the next year crop as a hedge.

Ok.

That's it.

I'm not really back. Just thought I'd add that to the conversation. Go Browns!

Welcome back...............and I mean that, sincerely.

Thanks.

Welcome back Heldawg.

I agree that we should be going after a QB, every year if necessary, until we find the right guy.

If we don't have a franchise guy, then we need one. That said, we don't need to invest a top pick in every draft ...... but I would take a 1st round guy, backed up by a 3rd rounder the next year, then a 4th ..... and so on, until we find the right guy. We really have to get the QB spot right if we want to win.

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Johnny Football is athletic

That rim looks like its 7ft.

I think it's 10ft, and I wonder if Breese or Wilson can dunk?

It looked every bit of regulation. We know manziel is just under 6 feet tall and that rin isn't 2 feet above his head. It looks every bit of 4 feet.

Brees had that great dunk in the game vs the Steelers last year.

Hoge said it was Tim Tebow.

That was both TRUE and OBVIOUS...I don't think you had to be a QB Guru to get that one right

jmho

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Johnny Football is athletic

That rim looks like its 7ft.

I think it's 10ft, and I wonder if Breese or Wilson can dunk?

I'm 5'10", and I used to be able to dunk. I had huge leg strength.

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...there’s a lot of guys that’ll come into any team this year as rookies and they’ll contribute.

"They’ll contribute in a big way. So here’s a guy that’s had NFL experience. He’s been in NFL camps. He has some tools to move forward with. The notion of experience is one that to me it can get overplayed. You have to identify truly what the young man is going to be asked to do and can he perform in that role. And if he can, don’t be afraid to move forward in that direction.”

Red flag alert:

What he's basically saying here is: screw the AVG vets that have shown to not have high end ceiling. Instead, if you think a rook can become a high end player and has that ceiling, let him start 2-3 seasons to reach that ceiling, no matter what ("don't be afraid", as in taking and goind through the rookie lumps).

He's prospect happy, this pretty much made it official for me.

He also seems to not fill needs in FA in order to keep other teams guessing as to what he'd do in the draft

He has it all bass ackwards, the definition of outsmarting at work...

Don't really see where your getting that from. Only thing I read was they dont value a veteran just because he a veteran which makes since to me after all they got to be able to perform.

Then he says yeah its ok to draft a guy and have him contribute right away IF you know he can fill a role. nothing about guaranteeing someone starts. he is already on record that the coach will decide that anyways.

His FA signings so far have been for need. He signs FA at needed positions so he can be positioned to draft BPA. Pay attention to the actions not the words. He already confessed he wants to keep everyone confused =)

I love what he is doing so far =)

Will I love his draft? Who knows =)

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Johnny Football is athletic

That rim looks like its 7ft.

I think it's 10ft, and I wonder if Breese or Wilson can dunk?

A couple of years ago, I saw Brees jump from a dead standstill and dunk the football over the goal post. It was pretty impressive.

The thing about Manziel.. and I have said it before... I don't want him.. but I do. He could either totally change football, or become the worst draft choice ever.

The HC would have to develop an offence around him.. He is very much a boom and bust player.

I hate college football.. its boring... bubble after bubble... screen after screen. Yet Manziel made me want to watch it. He is a hug risk at 4... but with our history.. do we take it. Glad I am not Farmer or Pettine

I agree w/most of that, other than hating college football.

part of me LOVES johnny football. he is a brand that we haven't had in cleveland since bernie retired. he does things his way and he doesn't care who he pisses off along the way.

that being said, his ceiling is one of the highest, but his floor could be a scary thing to watch un-ravel.

*gulp*

If your in to watching athletes perform amazingly, then it's hard not to like Manziel.. as a pure athlete, he's pretty much amazing.

Still not sure how it translates to the Pros...

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Still not sure how it translates to the Pros....

Join the club.

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Still not sure how it translates to the Pros....

Join the club.

I feel the same of the top three. About ready to just start hoping for a sure fire impact guy other than QB.

Who is a sure-fire impact guy?

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Who is a sure-fire impact guy?

There, my friend lies the problem! Farmer and Pettine can have that one.

Yeah, I don't think any player is ever sure-fire. Joe Thomas was close. Adrian Peterson was close. There are others, but I can't come up w/any right now.

What I'm saying is that I don't think we should pass on a QB because they aren't sure-fire. There probably is not a player in this draft who is sure-fire. I actually think Teddy would be one of the safer picks.

I would say Robinson and Mathews are sure fire 10 years and probowls in their future. Now the problem is you have Joe and are u willing to give up a #4 overall in a deep class to add a RT. How many years does Joe have left? he slipped a bit last year, is this an anomaly or a trend?

I don't think either of those guys are sure-fire.

I have seen Matthews get beat repeatedly in one game.

Robinson doesn't have the feet to be a sure-fire prospect.

I also disagree w/you about Joe slipping this year. In fact, I think he had one of his finest years since he's been in the league.

Stories from the Future: Johnny Manziel Leads Cleveland Browns to Super Bowl L Victory

. Rejoice, Cleveland sports fans. Your long nightmare has finally come to an end.

Those now famous words spoken by Manziel two years ago proved to be prophetic last night, as the Browns defeated the New York Giants 31-27 to win the first Super Bowl championship in the franchise's history and Cleveland's first professional sports title in 52 years. Manziel, named the game's MVP, completed 31 of 40 pass attempts for 321 yards and a pair of touchdown passes. He also ran for 53 yards and a score.

How is it possible that we arrived at this point, to a place and a time where the Browns are Super Bowl champions? It all began back in September 2013 when rumors first started swirling that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and then team general manager Mike Lombardi were interested in the phenom known as Johnny Football. Those rumors continued even after first-year head coach Rob Chudzinski was fired following Cleveland's disappointing 4-12 campaign, and after Lombardi and then team CEO Joe Banner left the club in the middle of February 2014.

It was believed at that time that general manager Ray Farmer wasn't a fan of Manziel for whatever reasons. Whether Farmer eventually fell in love with Manziel or he felt that he had to appease Haslam may never be known, but what is known is that the Browns, one week before the 2014 NFL Draft, traded with the Houston Texans in order to move up and obtain the rights to the first overall pick.

A stroke of luck and a Houston demand ultimately benefited Cleveland more so than anybody could have guessed at the time. Houston, not enamored with the No. 26 pick of the '14 draft that the Browns acquired by controversially trading running back Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts the previous September, demanded that Cleveland trade pick No. 4 from '14 and the team's first rounders for '15 and '16.

The Browns acquiesced, and while Houston now owns the final pick of the first round in this year's upcoming draft, Cleveland used their second first-round pick two years ago to select wide receiver Allen Robinson out of Penn State. Robinson has, since his first game in the league, been the perfect two of a one-two punch that has featured Josh Gordon, regarded by many to be the best WR in the game today, as its star.

Both Robinson and Gordon caught TDs last night.

One could feel the magic in and around the Cleveland area right from the moment that Manziel held up his Browns jersey at Radio City Music Hall. Not all fans of the team were immediately sold on Manziel, but some of those individuals became instant believers the following morning after Manziel appeared on the ESPN Cleveland radio program The Really Big Show .

"I meant everything I said a few months back," Manziel told TRBS hosts Tony Rizzo and Aaron Goldhammer. "I know we're going to a Super Bowl and soon, and it starts this season with the playoffs. We'll see you in the playoffs this January, Cleveland."

Manziel went one-for-one in calling his shots, but it happened at the expense of a local guy who remains, to this day, a favorite among the Cleveland fan base. Career backup Brian Hoyer played well for the Browns in two games during the 2013 season before he tore his ACL that October. While Hoyer has made for a serviceable No. 2 since then, he never quite looked the same coming off of that injury the following summer.

Manziel, meanwhile, shined in each of his preseason appearances. He showed that he had learned how to change his game in order to thrive and survive in the NFL, playing more like Seattle Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson than like the retired Mike Vick. Manziel made smart decisions and, just as importantly, he made smart and accurate throws, turning the ball over only once in four preseason appearances. Head coach Mike Pettine made the obvious choice and named his rookie the starting quarterback nine days before the start of the season.

From there, the Johnny Cleveland era was upon us. The Browns won the season opener for the second time since returning to the league in 1999. Cleveland lost only once in division play. An AFC North title, an 11-5 record and, as Manziel had predicted, a trip to the playoffs was all deservedly earned.

Trouble came in the AFC Divisional Round. Manziel had his worst day to date as a pro, throwing two picks and completing only 11 of 30 passes as the Browns were downed by, of all teams, the Baltimore Ravens. The former Browns had again broken Cleveland hearts, and the most battered fan base in all of pro sports couldn't help but wonder if 2014 was too good to be true.

It wasn't.

Manziel seemed to only get better with every game, regardless of the result, and the Browns went 13-3 in 2015 and clinched home-field advantage throughout the playoffs. Cleveland then eased to a 27-10 victory over the Miami Dolphins, setting up for an AFC Championship showdown with the Denver Broncos.

Yes, those Denver Broncos, the team that prevented the Browns from playing in several Super Bowl games back in the '80s. Manziel would have none of it when presented with his first shot to play on football's biggest stage, out-dueling Peyton Manning in what we now know will be the future Hall of Fame quarterback's final professional game and leading the Browns to a 27-17 victory.

It is, of course, unfair to only give Manziel credit for what was, just two offseasons ago, the laughingstock of the NFL becoming the final team standing. The Browns re-signing center Alex Mack and safety T.J. Ward two years ago was vital, as both have played massive roles in the team enjoying its current success. Joe Haden, who was inked to a long-term deal that same springtime, is now the best cornerback in the league, one who deserves to have a continent named after him because an island just isn't big enough.

The NFL is a quarterback-driven league, though, and thus it's Manziel who gets the criticism and the love, the headlines and the opening stories on SportsCenter. It was Manziel that TMZ waited for outside of Lola as the QB enjoyed his first dinner as a member of the Browns. It was Manziel who had editorials written about him in the Cleveland Plain Dealer after he partied maybe a little bit too much following the team's Bye week two seasons ago.

It was Manziel who was the first Cleveland player in history to kiss the Vince Lombardi Trophy.

Last night's historic event wasn't the end of a tale. "The best," Manziel told reporters after the game, "is to come." He hasn't lied to you yet, Cleveland fans. Just imagine what the future could hold for your Browns.

Just imagine.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/stories-fut...00504--nfl.html

QB is on record as the toughest evaluated position in Football and also the toughest transition from college to NFL there is in a position ergo hard to evaluate.

Manziel - I really think he will drop, I'm hoping all the way to 26

Or we move up and get him from that slot. I am counting on the bias of the NFL. I would not mind us just getting him at #4 if Teddy is gone. But if he gets past the Vikings who expressed a big interest in him late December. He could drop all the way back.

Bortles, Carr, Garapolla are End of first beginning of the 2nd worthy. It all depends on a run or not. Last year they had Geno Smith in the top 10 picks but the NFL teams just weren't buying. I do think Teddy goes early n quick. Then it could benefit us if everyone drops. I think Ponder, Tannehill (not bad but not an overall #7 pick), Weeden and others have slapped some NFL teams into reality. Manziel if he was 6'2" would be the overall #1 pick. So I'm going on the obvious bias NFL GMs have on short QBs in the draft!

Assuming Teddy goes early and we don't have a say in it. My hope is that JM drops due the bias and we pick him up near 26. Just my thoughts. I think he would be great for Cleveland and not at #4 you won't have the hounding of HE HAS TO PLAY CAUSE ITS #4. This way he can sit a while and learn n transition his game into the NFL

JMHO

Well said, and I think Manziel is a "ticket booth QB" because he will put fannies in the seats, ownership loves that.

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Well said, and I think Manziel is a "ticket booth QB" because he will put fannies in the seats, ownership loves that.

Sometimes I wonder if they like that better than winning LOL

If we trade our '15 and '16 first round picks to move up 3 spots... to draft Manziel...

I... I just don't even know what I'd do...

Heck, I wouldn't give that for anyone in this draft...

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Well said, and I think Manziel is a "ticket booth QB" because he will put fannies in the seats, ownership loves that.

Sometimes I wonder if they like that better than winning LOL

It's easier to constantly reinvent hype than it is to build lasting success, so it would be a sound business model. They don't need to ever be good, they just need to sell you the HOPE of being good, and the tickets will sell.

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Well said, and I think Manziel is a "ticket booth QB" because he will put fannies in the seats, ownership loves that.

Sometimes I wonder if they like that better than winning LOL

It's easier to constantly reinvent hype than it is to build lasting success, so it would be a sound business model. They don't need to ever be good, they just need to sell you the HOPE of being good, and the tickets will sell.

That's why the franchise is worth a billion, Browns fans always have HOPE.

Manziel is probably the only player in this draft that is intriguing enough to make me purchase sunday ticket to watch the Browns. I will be honest, for the first time in almost 3 decades, I dont really care if I watch this team or not.

I've been a bit apathetic about the QB's this season, they all seem to be less than stellar for our needs. Now hearing that Manziel's pro day is going to bring out such football fans as former Baseball owner and US President, George Bush and Texas Governor Rick Perry, well how can you not pay attention?

Houston are you listening?

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Here are five things NFL scouts will focus on during Johnny Manziel's pro day, which will take place at Texas A&M and be televised live by NFL Network on Thursday:

1. Footwork
Manziel mainly operated out of the shotgun in the Aggies' offense. At his pro day, he will take snaps from under center and scouts will get a chance to see his three-, five- and seven-step drops. I don't think this will be much of an issue for Manziel because he's spent a ton of time working on his drops since the end of the season. Once he reaches the top of his drop, scouts want to see Manziel drive off of his back foot and transfer his weight to his front side during his delivery. At times, he lifts his back foot instead of driving off it, and that takes away from both his velocity and accuracy.

2. Throwing with anticipation
The passing windows in the NFL are much smaller than those at the collegiate level. With that in mind, throwing with anticipation is crucial at the next level. This is an area that Manziel needs to show improvement. The spread offense at Texas A&M creates huge seams in the passing game, and Manziel was afforded the luxury of waiting for his receivers to come out of their break before throwing the ball. Scouts want to see him show more trust in his pass catchers and release the ball prior to the break point.

3. Driving the football
Manziel throws a beautiful deep ball. He puts just the right amount of air under the ball on deep posts and fades. There isn't any concern about his ability to push the ball vertically, but some scouts question his pure arm strength to drive the ball on the deep out and comeback routes. I've seen Manziel throw twice in person and I came away impressed by his arm strength. He'll have a big opportunity at his pro day to ease any concerns about his ability to make all of the necessary throws at the NFL level.

4. Movement inside the pocket
Nobody questions Manziel's ability to elude pass rushers and create plays. His highlight reel is littered with wild scrambles culminating in touchdown passes or runs. However, there aren't many examples on tape of Manziel sliding up in the pocket and resetting his feet to deliver the ball. This is an important aspect of playing quarterback at the next level. NFL defensive coordinators will focus their attention on boxing him in, and he needs to get more comfortable shuffling/sliding inside the pocket. There won't be a pass rush to contend with at his pro day, but Manziel will have an opportunity to display his movement skills inside the pocket.

5. Interaction with his teammates
Quarterback is a leadership position. Manziel received some criticism this past summer because he was spending so much time outside of College Station. Initially, some scouts were concerned that Manziel might've alienated his teammates with his offseason activity. However, after completing the background work on the Aggies' signal-caller, every scout I've talked to has said that Manziel's teammates love playing with him and also praised his leadership. Scouts will be paying attention at the pro day to see how Manziel interacts with his teammates. This is also a great opportunity for scouts to talk to more sources at the school to corroborate their information.

Daniel Jeremiah, NFL.com

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I've been a bit apathetic about the QB's this season, they all seem to be less than stellar for our needs. Now hearing that Manziel's pro day is going to bring out such football fans as former Baseball owner and US President, George Bush and Texas Governor Rick Perry, well how can you not pay attention?

As I said before/, "fannies in the seats."

for #5, I wonder if it will be brought up that Manziel and Evans skipped the A&M pro-day and are staging one of their own. you know, bringing less scouts to see the fringe Aggie players who are fighting to just be considered by the NFL. not exactly being a team player by having his own day there.

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for #5, I wonder if it will be brought up that Manziel and Evans skipped the A&M pro-day and are staging one of their own. you know, bringing less scouts to see the fringe Aggie players who are fighting to just be considered by the NFL. not exactly being a team player by having his own day there.

"every scout I've talked to has said that Manziel's teammates love playing with him and also praised his leadership."

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for #5, I wonder if it will be brought up that Manziel and Evans skipped the A&M pro-day and are staging one of their own. you know, bringing less scouts to see the fringe Aggie players who are fighting to just be considered by the NFL. not exactly being a team player by having his own day there.

"every scout I've talked to has said that Manziel's teammates love playing with him and also praised his leadership."

and, you can see that in the Duke game among others. and, i'm guessing this personal pro-day is due to his agents. but, i'm also not of the mind that you just excuse things as he should be taking control.

it is simply a note and a minor one, but one i would expect to be brought up (and hasn't been from what I have seen).

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Johnny has been very quiet lately for Johnny. I hope they have a camera on him draft day, that will be interesting.

He has been quiet.. Not sure why. Maybe a few of his friends, parents or agents have said,,, SHUT UP JOHNNY LOL

Anyway, very talented kid. A whole lotta fun to watch.. Again, I just don't know if his game translates to the pros... When it comes to size, it's a question mark but then Brees and Wilson probably had some of the same question marks and both have won SB's

Go figure.

He's never been loud...It is just that they have less access to him since he has left the campus..No college "friends" to take snap shots at parties, or camps to work where he is late getting to the field. Manziel isn't nearly an issue off the field as the media made him out to be months ago.

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for #5, I wonder if it will be brought up that Manziel and Evans skipped the A&M pro-day and are staging one of their own. you know, bringing less scouts to see the fringe Aggie players who are fighting to just be considered by the NFL. not exactly being a team player by having his own day there.

I think he did his teammates a favor by not being there. It would have been all Johnny, all day. This put the spotlight on the other players that deserve their day to shine in front of scouts. To a less extent, Jake Matthews brought in the crowd which allowed others to have a spotlight. Johnny would have even sucked that light away from Matthews.

J/C

Johnny Football is getting WOWs! on his pro day. Interview going on right now nfl network

He killed it. I know he was throwing against air, but his arm strength should no longer be a question.

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He killed it. I know he was throwing against air, but his arm strength should no longer be a question.

Shouldn't have been in the first place.

Take Johnny Football at 4 and don't look back.

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He killed it. I know he was throwing against air, but his arm strength should no longer be a question.

He's killing the interview also. Extremely talented kid.

He's a better fit for Houston given the weather, but we'll see.

What does the weather have to do with anything? Manziel's got as much arm strength as Bridgewater (or more) and Bortles (whose arm strength is overrated).

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He's a better fit for Houston given the weather, but we'll see.

Johnny Manziel wears helmets and pads during pro day workout. Curiously, they were black. Does he want to go to the Black Hole in Oakland?

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He's a better fit for Houston given the weather, but we'll see.

He's a good fit for any team in need of a franchise QB. I understand our FO people are not there. I only hope they really know what they just missed. To witness something like that live is so much more exciting and impressive then watching it on TV.

JC

Even as a non-supporter, those 50+ yard throws on the run from both directions were extremely, extremely impressive...

Yes, I'm very surprised at watching Johnnys pro day. Shocked to say the least. I'm 64 years old and watched steve young and fran tarkenton play ball for years and he reminds me of both of them. He has a strong arm, down and outs were on a rope, good velocity on all 30 to 40 yard throws and on target and on deep throws it didn't take long to get there and they were on target leading the receiver. Two drops, one is on the receiver one on him, but only two passes where the receiver had to slow down for on the long ones, otherwise he was on target especially moving to his right which really surprised me. After watching Bortles and Bridgewaters pro day, I came away very impressed not only with the workout but with his interview. Maybe i'm wrong but a kid like this doesn't come along very often. Of course Tarkenton and a Young doesn't either.

You mean he looked better than Joe Kapp ?

I want nothing to do w/ gambling on Manziel at #4 (or any of the other QBs). That said, didn't you guys in his corner read/hear a while ago that he doesn't want to be called Johnny Football anymore?

I liked that he wore the helmet & pads. Kinda adds to that "gamer" mystique he has going for him.

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He's a better fit for Houston given the weather, but we'll see.

He's a good fit for any team in need of a franchise QB. I understand our FO people are not there. I only hope they really know what they just missed. To witness something like that live is so much more exciting and impressive then watching it on TV.

We have a private workout set up with him.

Johnny Manziel at Pro Day: “I can make any throw”

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 27, 2014, 12:56 PM EDT

Former Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel threw the ball well at his Pro Day workout today, and he said afterward that he believes he proved he can make every throw an NFL quarterback needs to make.

“I can make any throw on the field and hopefully compete with anybody,” Manziel said on NFL Network.

Manziel did his Pro Day work in a helmet and shoulder pads, a rare choice that may have had something to do with the fact that Nike has just unveiled a new line of Manziel Pro Day apparel. But Manziel said the only business he’s thinking about is playing quarterback, and he hopes NFL coaches know that about him.

“I just wanted these guys to know that my focus is football. This is my life, this is what I want to do, and I’ve never been more dedicated or more committed in my entire life. I understand the challenge,” Manziel said.

Manziel isn’t the prototypical NFL pocket passer, but some NFL team is likely convinced that he can make every throw, and in May he’s likely to be a first-round draft pick, anointed some team’s franchise quarterback.

I'm more intrigued by the fact they are saying his footwork was improved. I already did my break down of Manziel, I knew he could make NFL throws in January.

Wished I'd have seen it.. sounds like he had a good day...

Here's a nightmare scenario for you.

Haslam fires Banner and Lombardi who desperately wanted Manziel.

Farmer takes Bortles or Watkins and Manziel becomes a superstar.

Cleveland has a meltdown.

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Haslam fires Banner and Lombardi who desperately wanted [Carr].

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Even as a non-supporter, those 50+ yard throws on the run from both directions were extremely, extremely impressive...

Yeah, he was making them look really easy too.

Hold your fingers 3 inches apart.

Do you think it really matters if Manziel was that much taller--- with his arm?
What the heck the guy can dunk a basketball.

That being said, I think he may be gone at 4.

I've wanted him from the beginning of the draft talk this year, but if we don't take him I want Sammy. If we do take Johnny football, I think he will be a very good QB for a long time.

My biggest question is Hoyer. If Hoyer is our future we should get the best supporting cast we can get. If Hoyer is not the future then Maziel is a no brainer at #4. I SO hope Bridgewater is gone before we pick... lol I would hate to see us take him. I just don't see him as the answer... I might be wrong but it's JMHO.

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My biggest question is Hoyer. If Hoyer is our future we should get the best supporting cast we can get.

How can anyone, including this FO and coaching staff say that Hoyer is the answer based on two very average at best NFL starts? How silly would it be to stake your future on that if you feel you have a reasonable chance at answering the franchise QB position in the draft?

While we disagree on who that answer is, the question is no less valid.

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My biggest question is Hoyer. If Hoyer is our future we should get the best supporting cast we can get.

How can anyone, including this FO and coaching staff say that Hoyer is the answer based on two very average at best NFL starts? How silly would it be to stake your future on that if you feel you have a reasonable chance at answering the franchise QB position in the draft?

While we disagree on who that answer is, the question is no less valid.

Because an average NFL start with the Browns makes the fans think Superstar.

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My biggest question is Hoyer. If Hoyer is our future we should get the best supporting cast we can get.

How can anyone, including this FO and coaching staff say that Hoyer is the answer based on two very average at best NFL starts? How silly would it be to stake your future on that if you feel you have a reasonable chance at answering the franchise QB position in the draft?

While we disagree on who that answer is, the question is no less valid.

I absolutely see your point and tend to agree, but I'm speaking to the #4 pick not to not taking a QB. If you take Sammy Watkins at #4 you make your passing game with Watkins, Gordon and Cameron elite. After #4 you take a QB to groom.

Hoyer has shown enough to know he can lead the team and make the throws. The only questions with Hoyer are durability and can he be that good QB consistently.

If you are the FO and you just don't see IT in Hoyer, then you MUST take a QB at #4. And if he is there it should be Manziel.

I'm not as sold on Manziel as you are. For a lot of reasons. I don't put nearly as much stock in pro days as many posters do either.

His throwing motion is very inconsistent and that showed up today. Nobody can answer whether his tendency to run will be overcome. I simply don't see him as being the complete QB that some do. The system he came from leaves a lot of questions unanswered.

With the time Hoyer spent in the league with different teams and considering his play was average at best, I don't see how they could arrive at an "IT factor" based on the small sample size. If they do, I see the likelihood of failure much higher that the likelihood of success.

yeah, that throwing motion was hectic. He has a fast release, excellent precision on his passes and more arm strenght than i imagined. He is still better than bortles or bridgewater and it shows. I watched all three pro days.

The questions about Manziel have zero to do with his pro day. He proved in college he can throw the ball with accuracy. What is still to be determined is can he play the NFL game? Can he make pre-snap reads, post snap adjustments, make the proper read and throw the ball accurately to the right guy at the right time.

Can he protect himself and the ball? Will he tuck it and run after the first read?

Manziel is a unique guy his pro day although impressive does not reveal what kind of NFL player he will be.

Bortles to me is a mid to late 1st round pick who will need a year or more on the bench.

Bridgewater could start in his first year and is the best QB in this draft.

Carr has a really good arm but has much to prove about playing under pressure.

Garopollo has NFL tools but will need some time to adjust to the level of play in the NFL.

Manziel is the wild card in this draft. He has unique skills but will need to make changes in his game to adapt to the NFL.

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yeah, that throwing motion was hectic. He has a fast release, excellent precision on his passes and more arm strenght than i imagined. He is still better than bortles or bridgewater and it shows. I watched all three pro days.

Once again, watching pro days and watching people play the game are two different things. I've seen Bridgewater play in a pro style offense and know what he brings to the table. He is the best QB in this draft.

His career in the NFL will point that out. Many QB's have had great pro days and terrible NFL careers. This group of QB's will be no different.

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My biggest question is Hoyer. If Hoyer is our future we should get the best supporting cast we can get.

How can anyone, including this FO and coaching staff say that Hoyer is the answer based on two very average at best NFL starts? How silly would it be to stake your future on that if you feel you have a reasonable chance at answering the franchise QB position in the draft?

While we disagree on who that answer is, the question is no less valid.

How could they say it about a couple of college kids with zero NFL starts?
Seems to me, there's more info available on Hoyer.

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How could they say it about a couple of college kids with zero NFL starts?
Seems to me, there's more info available on Hoyer.

There is. Which is why we should draft a QB at #4.

A complete picture is a sum of its parts. Not one part.

I thought his throws were just behind Carr in terms of velocity and thats saying something. Very good pro day, I think he showed off a strong arm and accuracy. I liked the low trajectory of his throws. He showed he could put some air underneath the bombs with accuracy but I am very impressed with how well he threw it today. I thought he changed his speed and just looked very effective in everything he did. A very strong day for Johny Football.

One more thing, he put on a proday that is more like what you expect from a private workout, showing off all the throws. Only 2 questions remain. Can he survive in the NFL and who has the nads to take him top 10?

Hoyer: His 3-0 record as a starter deserves interest.

Eggs in one basket...No Way.

He would be classed as a BRIDGE QB. To give us some quality starts while our YOUNG drafted QB hones his craft and is ready to take on the NFL.

All this does not change a thing. Those who have him high on their board still do. Those possibly who thought he was a 3rd round pick might go back to watch film on him and reassess their evaluation.

We might have to take him at #4??? I hope the NFL is still biased on size for 1st round invested QBs - him dropping to 26 would be amazing for us. Teddy B is still my #1 but I expect him to be way gone by our #4. JM I've like for a while now. Not because of Heisman but because in the beginning of the 2013 season we sent a young Asst. GM to attend see several of his games and practices. Btw if Banner/Lombardi was hot on JM it was from the reports that came from the young asst. GM

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Here's a nightmare scenario for you.

Haslam fires Banner and Lombardi who desperately wanted Manziel.

Farmer takes Bortles or Watkins and Manziel becomes a superstar.

Cleveland has a meltdown.

I'm not sure they disperately wanted Manziel..

j/c

anyone have a link to his pro day video?

Of course EVERY pro franchise was represented at the pro day EXCEPT CLEVELAND and Chicago. GEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...Same ole same ole. Johnny Football is even better than RG3 and the Browns are going to screw it up again by not making Manziel happen. I'm telling you Manziel is the QB of this draft!

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j/c

anyone have a link to his pro day video?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-163143293.html

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yeah, that throwing motion was hectic. He has a fast release, excellent precision on his passes and more arm strenght than i imagined. He is still better than bortles or bridgewater and it shows. I watched all three pro days.

Arnold Palmers golf swing looked like crap too...

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Of course EVERY pro franchise was represented at the pro day EXCEPT CLEVELAND and Chicago. GEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...Same ole same ole. Johnny Football is even better than RG3 and the Browns are going to screw it up again by not making Manziel happen. I'm telling you Manziel is the QB of this draft!

Calm down, they didn't go to any Pro days. They have private workouts scheduled.

I to was some what disturbed that we didn't have someone there !

If we select a QB I want Johnny Manziel. Go big or go home.

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Of course EVERY pro franchise was represented at the pro day EXCEPT CLEVELAND and Chicago. GEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...Same ole same ole. Johnny Football is even better than RG3 and the Browns are going to screw it up again by not making Manziel happen. I'm telling you Manziel is the QB of this draft!

If you were paying any attention at all,, you'd know that the Browns aren't going to any QB's pro day. they have apparently decided that a planned/Scripted workout won't give them the information they needed.

The plan is to have each QB come in or for them to go to the player and work him out their own way.

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j/c

anyone have a link to his pro day video?

Here is Jaws take and more of the actual Pro Day

http://www.youtube.com/v/YTsLYLbiSG8

✔ @MikeVick
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Johnny Manziel will be a star in the NFL. I can't wait to watch him play!!!!

1:03 PM - 27 Mar 2014

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I thought his throws were just behind Carr in terms of velocity and thats saying something. Very good pro day, I think he showed off a strong arm and accuracy. I liked the low trajectory of his throws. He showed he could put some air underneath the bombs with accuracy but I am very impressed with how well he threw it today. I thought he changed his speed and just looked very effective in everything he did. A very strong day for Johny Football.

One more thing, he put on a proday that is more like what you expect from a private workout, showing off all the throws. Only 2 questions remain. Can he survive in the NFL and who has the nads to take him top 10?

He is a tough kid. He can survive. There aren't going to be any, or at least many designed runs and you can coach a QB to not run, or at least not run trying to get more. It can be done. He looks like a bull rider. Those guys aren't big....except on tough.

I thought it was impressive he threw in pads and helmet. As he said, "we play in them". Have any others done that?

If we go QB, Johnny is the guy I have wanted from the start. He has the arm, he knows how to win, how to inspire teammates, and yes, he has a swagger that has been missing in Cleveland for a while. He also did it in the SEC the last two years which is as solid a proving ground for the college player as can be had. Every team in the league has multiple players with NFL type ability and a bunch more just short. It's not like he faced scrubs each and every week minus a game or two.

As for our guys not being there.....no big deal. There are private scouting services, Blesto being one. I am sure that over the years Farmer has met a few "hired" guns we may have hired to give us their scouting report. Sometimes it is valuable for a GM to have independent scouting reports from people not under his direct charge. They aren't going to say what the boss wants him to say....and that vibe can be read by team employed scouts. It also serves as a cross check so to speak. I am sure Farmer has already received, or will soon receive a detailed report from todays workout. We had somebody contracted to be our eyes.

From the little I have seen, the kid ripped it in a big way.

Apparently, he's done a few things that weren't done before.. Pads and helmet, spoke to NFL guys prior to the workout, offered to extend the action if anyone didn't get enough info... Geez, he's serious.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000337395/article/what-we-learned-from-johnny-manziels-pro-day

Good read

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My biggest question is Hoyer. If Hoyer is our future we should get the best supporting cast we can get.

How can anyone, including this FO and coaching staff say that Hoyer is the answer based on two very average at best NFL starts? How silly would it be to stake your future on that if you feel you have a reasonable chance at answering the franchise QB position in the draft?

While we disagree on who that answer is, the question is no less valid.

How could they say it about a couple of college kids with zero NFL starts?
Seems to me, there's more info available on Hoyer.

I agree. If you want to know what you can do with an average NFL QB and a good team and a unified coaching/FO staff, look no further than the current SB Champs. There will be many that disagree but also many that agree that Russell Wilson is an average NFL QB. It was a solid team around him that makes that offense good enough to not lose. I view Wilson and Hoyer in similar light. If we roll with Hoyer, pick up Watkins, and fix the interior line; we can have similiar success going the route that Seattle has gone in recent years. The defense was not bad and I don't think changing systems will change that. We just need an offense that can sustain drives and put some points on the board.

jc
Josh Gordon thinks Browns take QB

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/106823...aft-quarterback

Josh Gordon is "pretty sure" the Cleveland Browns will select a quarterback with the fourth pick in the draft, but he's not sure which one.

At the same time, the Browns' standout wide receiver, speaking on "SportsCenter" on Thursday, says the pick is "up in the air." He also quipped that asking him whom the Browns should draft first was "putting me in a position to incriminate myself."

[+] EnlargeJosh Gordon
John Rieger/USA TODAY Sports
Receiver Josh Gordon believes the Browns will target a quarterback with the fourth pick in May's draft.
"There's no telling," Gordon said. "I talked with Ray [Farmer, the team's general manager], I talked with [owner] Jimmy [Haslam]. The choice is really up in the air right now. I'm pretty sure it's a quarterback and I just really can't say which one. I'm not real sure."

Gordon then talked about two quarterbacks but did not initially mention 2012 Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel, whose pro day at Texas A&M was Thursday.

"There's plenty of guys on the list right now," Gordon said. "Blake Bortles is definitely one of those guys that just may do it for us. Teddy Bridgewater is a great talent. But there's no telling."

Manziel has been the subject of much debate, with some calling him a certain first-round pick and others -- including ESPN's Merril Hoge and Ron Jaworski -- saying they would not take him in the first three rounds.

Gordon later added on ESPN's "First Take" that he had dinner with Farmer recently and that free agency and quarterbacks were discussed. Though Farmer was noncommittal, Gordon said Manziel "seems to be the top guy on my list right now" and that he'd "bring a whole different dynamic" to Cleveland.

In his view, Gordon believes Manziel's skills will translate to the pro game.

"I think it might not be as hard as most people believe it to be, simply because of the fact we have guys like Russell Wilson now, shorter quarterbacks. You see Drew Brees doing it [also]," he said. "Johnny seems that much more mobile, if anything. He seems to elude defenders a whole lot better.

"I know it's hard to tell, and there's a whole lot of mixed reviews on him. But he's bringing highlights to the game that a lot of people haven't seen in a long time. I think he'll be great for the NFL."

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Still not sure how it translates to the Pros....

Join the club.

We hear it year after year. C'mon man, it's just football. I don't know how it translates to the pros, but I know if a man can perform (succeed) at the top levels of college football there's no reason to think he can't play at the next level.

Every Freaking Year, we get this one prospect,/ pick, that EVERYBODY talks about, " oh, he might not be worth it" " oh he came from a division 2 school, "oh We don't know which of the two is better.

Well, I was wrong about Aaron Rogers, He actually was pretty good.
A llot of folks were wrong about Randy Moss, he actually was pretty good.
At least one of Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf actually was pretty good.

People saying... Manziel,, Oh he can't have roll out of the pocket plays like that in the NFL.
Micheal Vick did, Robert Griffin the Third did.
And who is Johnny Manziel kind of like? That actually played in the NFL and had some success.

Well I think, he's a better, more refined version of Jeff Blake. Who? Jeff Blake was a quarterback for the Cincinnati Bengals and later the Lions I think, from around 1997-2001 and had probably around a 40% winning percentage.

But I think Johnny Manziel, with that "type" of game, can have Peyton Manning type of success, because he is better, and more refined, in that style.

Joh Nee, Joh Nee, JOH NEE!

I'd take the guy 1st overall, and not look back. Done deal, no 2nd thoughts, let's go, next team, next pick, how long until # 26 rolls around.
Don't get caught up in trying to have the perfect freaking pick!

Hey nobody on this board, consensously, wanted Joe Haden, that year over what's his name at safety, who went to the Chiefs, I think.

You can pass on Johnny Manziel, and he will pass on you! He's going to play on one of these 32 teams, It might as well be yours!

It should come down to, Could this guy have a role on your team, could he get it done. Not about, if this guy is the perfect pick at the perfect time, or if this guy happens to be a rookie.
Just find a good guy, Sign him, develop him, and resign him. See how it works out.

I can never tell if THROW LONG is serious or not. Either way, I am scared that I agree with him.

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He's prospect happy, this pretty much made it official for me.

He also seems to not fill needs in FA in order to keep other teams guessing as to what he'd do in the draft

He has it all bass ackwards, the definition of outsmarting at work...

jmho

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but I know if a man can perform (succeed) at the top levels of college football there's no reason to think he can't play at the next level.

Really?

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Hey nobody on this board, consensously, wanted Joe Haden, that year over what's his name at safety, who went to the Chiefs, I think.

Eric Berry?

If we could go back and swap those picks, I would.

'Johnny Manziel puts on show at Pro Day: Fans and media react'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/johnny_manziel_puts_on_show_at.html

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j/c

anyone have a link to his pro day video?

Here is Jaws take and more of the actual Pro Day

http://www.youtube.com/v/YTsLYLbiSG8

Good video!

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j/c

anyone have a link to his pro day video?

Here is Jaws take and more of the actual Pro Day

http://www.youtube.com/v/YTsLYLbiSG8

Good video!

thank you for sharing!

j/c:

I didn't watch the Pro Day. Those don't mean very much to me.

I am watching the Gruden/Johnny show now. He is pretty impressive. He is not as smart as Teddy on the board. Not even close, but he is smarter than the other QBs I have seen.

Man, the dude has huge hands and feet. Bet the girls love that. LOL

Johnny has something about him. He is going to have to get smarter w/his decision making, but you don't want to tame him too much, because his improvising is probably the key to his success.

I am still convinced that if these two are available, we should draft Teddy [top choice] and Manziel [if Teddy isn't available.] Screw everyone else.

"Where's the fun in that?"

Love it.

The guy might fit perfectly in Cleveland.

Seriously.

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"Where's the fun in that?"

Love it.

Huh? I'm missing the reference here...

It was in the Gruden interview. Sorry.

What a great opportunity to take JM at #4 ( if he's still there) and let him sit to hone his skills.
I was already warming up to the idea, and I have no doubt in my mind he has the drive to be successful. My take on being short is Russel Wilson at the next level, He has always been short and knows how to evade the rush & throw the ball naturally between & over defenders. What impresses me most of RW is his ability to not take the big hit. I see no hesitation to say JM will do the same on the next level.

This is a spark the Browns could really use if they handle the pressure of starting Johnny Football to let him learn from Hoyer. I am now full on board, Johnny!

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Hoyer has shown enough to know he can lead the team and make the throws. The only questions with Hoyer are durability and can he be that good QB consistently.

If you are the FO and you just don't see IT in Hoyer, then you MUST take a QB at #4. And if he is there it should be Manziel.

So you have concerns about Hoyers durability, but think tiny Johnny who's a run first QB will easily survive? Mike Vick is a LOT bigger than JM and he can't stay healthy running around. RG3 is huge by comparison and he couldn't survive his rookie season. The ONLY way a guy like JM can survive is stay in the pocket and get rid of the ball FAST. One good hit and he's done. That's one of the things that worries me about Bridgewater too. We play in a ROUGH division. QB's take a beating. Would be nice to think a player we take at #4 can survive his rookie year.

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What a great opportunity to take JM at #4 ( if he's still there) and let him sit to hone his skills.

Sure. Hell, lets sit all our rookies. Not like we need players from the draft to produce anytime soon. Let them all sit a couple years and hone their skills. Just as long as winning isn't important this season. We can afford to wait a few years to win. And any player other than Johnny we would have taken at #4 wouldn't help us this year anyway.....

You want Hoyer to start? Then give him some tools to work with to succeed. A WR to go with Gordon. Or an offensive lineman to block for him. Or even build a stronger Defense so he isn't playing from behind all the time. But if you spend #4 on a QB? He IS the man. The very second the card is in, he becomes the face of the franchise. He's the future of the team. And Hoyer is nothing but a backup/place holder. You do not spend #4 on a guy you intend to sit for year after year. And if you do, you're not going to be around for long.

I think that's exactly the decision the FO has to make.

If they believe Hoyer can be a starter in this league, then you take the BPA at #4, and draft a QB later to develop.

If not you have to get the QB now, and might as well let him start. Because we ain't got Bret Favre or Drew Brees here to let them sit for more than a year...

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I to was some what disturbed that we didn't have someone there !

just a thought but, who knows that the BROWNS didn't have "someone" there? The only thing the talking heads knew for certain is that the Coach's, Coordinators, or GM were not there. They don't know if the browns had an unknown/obscure scout there or not.

like farmer said he will bring in the QB's he wants to see to our house and make him run the drills WE want to see him run. Farmer doesn't seem to view scripted pro days as all that important. I'd agree with him.

"Manziel’s private coach George Whitfield Jr., who conducted the workout, said he knows the Browns plan to meet with his pupil and have scouted him extensively.

“They have a game plan,” Whitfield said. “They are going to work him out. They have done their due diligence. I remember being at the (Texas A&M-Alabama) game, and there must have been six or seven Browns officials here. Unless you have a team in India, you have a full (report) on No. 2. They are well aware of him.”"

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/johnny_manziel_says_he_doesnt.html

I don't understand why we weren't there but then again I watched I think it was Bortles who they said the Browns weren't there and I literally saw a guy in a Browns pullover walking behind him. Manziel looked great today. It was hard for me to go back to work because I was so wrapped up in watching him in the pads being chased by that broom making all the throws close to perfect.

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"Manziel’s private coach George Whitfield Jr., who conducted the workout, said he knows the Browns plan to meet with his pupil and have scouted him extensively.

“They have a game plan,” Whitfield said. “They are going to work him out. They have done their due diligence. I remember being at the (Texas A&M-Alabama) game, and there must have been six or seven Browns officials here. Unless you have a team in India, you have a full (report) on No. 2. They are well aware of him.”"

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/johnny_manziel_says_he_doesnt.html

this. here.

Nobody can convince me that a player as high-profile as JMan hasn't been carefully looked at by our FO. Really, think about it, folks: a team that has been QB-strapped for 25+ years is simply going to simply ignore a promising prospect? While everyone short of Stevie Wonder can see a need at the QB spot?

Please.

IMHO, they don't need to go anywhere but to his private audition. A private workout means that they get to script what he does, according to their preferences. They can use the workout to watch what he does well. They can drill him on the issues that give him challenges. They can look at him with a microscope.... in private. I can't think of a better way to find out what you have in him.

Low-profile ( or no-profile) attendance at these scripted media events does not equate to lack of interest.

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“They have a game plan,” Whitfield said. “They are going to work him out. They have done their due diligence.

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Hoyer has shown enough to know he can lead the team and make the throws. The only questions with Hoyer are durability and can he be that good QB consistently.

If you are the FO and you just don't see IT in Hoyer, then you MUST take a QB at #4. And if he is there it should be Manziel.

So you have concerns about Hoyers durability, but think tiny Johnny who's a run first QB will easily survive? Mike Vick is a LOT bigger than JM and he can't stay healthy running around. RG3 is huge by comparison and he couldn't survive his rookie season. The ONLY way a guy like JM can survive is stay in the pocket and get rid of the ball FAST. One good hit and he's done. That's one of the things that worries me about Bridgewater too. We play in a ROUGH division. QB's take a beating. Would be nice to think a player we take at #4 can survive his rookie year.

That's exactly what I'm thinking.... JM is gonna get busted up in the NFL.

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What a great opportunity to take JM at #4 ( if he's still there) and let him sit to hone his skills.

Sure. Hell, lets sit all our rookies. Not like we need players from the draft to produce anytime soon. Let them all sit a couple years and hone their skills. Just as long as winning isn't important this season. We can afford to wait a few years to win. And any player other than Johnny we would have taken at #4 wouldn't help us this year anyway.....

You want Hoyer to start? Then give him some tools to work with to succeed. A WR to go with Gordon. Or an offensive lineman to block for him. Or even build a stronger Defense so he isn't playing from behind all the time. But if you spend #4 on a QB? He IS the man. The very second the card is in, he becomes the face of the franchise. He's the future of the team. And Hoyer is nothing but a backup/place holder. You do not spend #4 on a guy you intend to sit for year after year. And if you do, you're not going to be around for long.

Maybe the trend needs to be broken, I have started to see the term "bridge quarterback" being thrown around and that's exactly what my opinion would be if we took JM. Is it allot to have your #4 pick sit for a year? you bet ya. Guess what our #6 pick didn't have a big impact last year. However, this year maybe a whole new ball game. We have an extra first round pick @ 26 to help weoponize this team. Watkins is also high on my board, he's the second choice. Believe it or not, I think Manzel has a better chance to "survive" in this league that Bridgewater. JMHO

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What a great opportunity to take JM at #4 ( if he's still there) and let him sit to hone his skills.

Sure. Hell, lets sit all our rookies. Not like we need players from the draft to produce anytime soon. Let them all sit a couple years and hone their skills. Just as long as winning isn't important this season. We can afford to wait a few years to win. And any player other than Johnny we would have taken at #4 wouldn't help us this year anyway.....

You want Hoyer to start? Then give him some tools to work with to succeed. A WR to go with Gordon. Or an offensive lineman to block for him. Or even build a stronger Defense so he isn't playing from behind all the time. But if you spend #4 on a QB? He IS the man. The very second the card is in, he becomes the face of the franchise. He's the future of the team. And Hoyer is nothing but a backup/place holder. You do not spend #4 on a guy you intend to sit for year after year. And if you do, you're not going to be around for long.

Maybe the trend needs to be broken, I have started to see the term "bridge quarterback" being thrown around and that's exactly what my opinion would be if we took JM. Is it allot to have your #4 pick sit for a year? you bet ya. Guess what our #6 pick didn't have a big impact last year. However, this year maybe a whole new ball game. We have an extra first round pick @ 26 to help weoponize this team. Watkins is also high on my board, he's the second choice. Believe it or not, I think Manzel has a better chance to "survive" in this league that Bridgewater. JMHO

Did anyone consider that Manziel could outright win the starting role in pre-season?

the thought crossed my mind. He's not used to playing second fiddle, my guess is he won't stop till he wins the job..

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the thought crossed my mind. He's not used to playing second fiddle, my guess is he won't stop till he wins the job..

In the interviews, he sounds like he won't stop after he wins the job.

It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.

Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.

Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.

Just stop it.

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the thought crossed my mind. He's not used to playing second fiddle, my guess is he won't stop till he wins the job..

In the interviews, he sounds like he won't stop after he wins the job.

LOL True.. The kid is a spark..

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It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.

Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.

Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.

Just stop it.

I've only seen one mock that has Manzeil after the first round, that one had him in the second. Personally, I think he's a 1st round talent. But what do I know

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It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.

Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.

Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.

Just stop it.

Ditto.

I can't believe that someone who did not like Manziel before his pro day would have his mind changed because of what he did in shorts and a t-shirt in a scripted environment. Yeah, I know he had a helmet and shoulder pads. Point is, a pro day should never be the reason a detractor becomes a supporter. Or vice versa.

I can see it solidifying an opinion one already had, but it should not sway you from one side to the other.

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It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.

Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.

Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.

Just stop it.

Ditto.

I can't believe that someone who did not like Manziel before his pro day would have his mind changed because of what he did in shorts and a t-shirt in a scripted environment. Yeah, I know he had a helmet and shoulder pads. Point is, a pro day should never be the reason a detractor becomes a supporter. Or vice versa.

I can see it solidifying an opinion one already had, but it should not sway you from one side to the other.

Which brings up another question, why do some folks get up in arms if the Browns don't send guys to these Pro Days?

Exactly, Pro Days are scripted, visits are not.

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Exactly, Pro Days are scripted, visits are not.

Only difference with Manziel is that he offered to do more if anybody from any team wanted him to. He was willing to stay later and continue to work out.

But yeah, I'm sure it was scripted and to me, that devalues the Pro Day.

I wonder how Johnny would do as a "leader" if he didn't get the opening day start over Hoyer? How would he respond to that?

I am not a big fan of Manziel only because of the games I watched him play......a lot of his "game breaking plays" don't happen in the NFL in my opinion. I saw to many throws that he made plays on that are either picked off or knocked down in the NFL game. To many times he isn't going to get out of the trouble he was able to spin out of in the college game.

That's just my humble opinion & if the Browns do draft him I hope I am wrong.

But I guess back to my point, How does Johnny react if Hoyer blows it up and turns into something........I don't know that he will, but it is possible.

If anyone wonders, I like Bridgewater and hope he falls to us, but I don't think he will.

If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

If we draft him, he WILL beat out Hoyer. The QB "competition" will become a joke, just as in the past. In fact it would not surprise me if the Browns moved Hoyer before the end of the draft if Manziel or Bridgewater are drafted. They are the only two I will say that about...

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I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

wow you have a crystal ball?

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I like Hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

I thought that he became the starter last season until the season-ending injury.

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I like Hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

I thought that he became the starter last season until the season-ending injury.

He replaced Brandon Weeden...let me repeat...Brandon Weeden...who was not this regime's QB and by the way Hoyer isn't either..

If I was afraid, due to precedence, that my job depended on success..I too would want the QB that I personally choose leading my fate.

He did. Against Weeden and a career back up in Campbell.

I think one must consider the competition and his actual play when saying he became the starter.

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I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup

Wow, I wish all our QB's were back-ups then. I wonder what you'd call the QB's that we've had?

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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.

Watched the Gruden camp. I have had a problem with Manziel and his game working in the NFL. Never questioned his unique abilities or his arm. My problem with him has been his decision making. One read tuck and run. Protecting himself and the ball. Not being able to read the defense and delivering the ball to the right guy at the right time.

However, I have never been a hater. In fact, even though I didn't want him for the Browns I was rooting for him.

I am starting to come around with him. The Gruden camp gave me a more personal view of him. I see him as sincere. And I see him as coachable which before I had some doubts. He will never be a pure pocket passer but if he curbs some of his tendencies you can live with what he brings to the table. He has great instincts for the game and in the end he is a playmaker.

Bridgewater is still the best in this draft. I also like Garopollo and am anxious to see him on Gruden's show. But Johnny is starting to grow on me some.

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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.

There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.

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There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.

Yes, it suggests that he's never had a chance to start and compete for a full year. He's a winner when given the chance.

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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.

There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.

Granted the sample is small but in case you missed it, he started a couple of games for the Browns and in those games, the entire team seemed to play better. Was it accident?

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Watched the Gruden camp. I have had a problem with Manziel and his game working in the NFL. Never questioned his unique abilities or his arm. My problem with him has been his decision making. One read tuck and run. Protecting himself and the ball. Not being able to read the defense and delivering the ball to the right guy at the right time.

However, I have never been a hater. In fact, even though I didn't want him for the Browns I was rooting for him.

I am starting to come around with him. The Gruden camp gave me a more personal view of him. I see him as sincere. And I see him as coachable which before I had some doubts. He will never be a pure pocket passer but if he curbs some of his tendencies you can live with what he brings to the table. He has great instincts for the game and in the end he is a playmaker.

Bridgewater is still the best in this draft. I also like Garopollo and am anxious to see him on Gruden's show. But Johnny is starting to grow on me some.

Manziel plays the game at NFL speed, release, movement and field vision. Johnny wants to be a "cash machine", so he will excel to get to that second contract and the big payday. A guy with that kind of drive whether you like him as an individual or not, will be a starter no matter where he goes. His marketing value to the team that drafts him will be millions, probably more than enough to justify the pick just from that standpoint.

The more I think about it, the more I think Manziel is the pick.

There needs to be some excitement back to Cleveland Browns football.

For better or worse, Johnny Football will bring that.

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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.

There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.

Granted the sample is small but in case you missed it, he started a couple of games for the Browns and in those games, the entire team seemed to play better. Was it accident?

I didn't miss a thing. He's started a total of 4 games in 5 NFL seasons, 2 or 3 of which were due to injuries to starters. Until proven otherwise, it's not out of line at all to call him a career backup.

for what it's worth... everyone said that Chip Kelly's offense would never work in the NFL. we were all proven wrong.

Manziel has the same chance to come in and change the NFL. IF we do draft him... I hope he sits for the entire season and we coach him up for a full year before he starts one single game in the NFL.

most of the successful QB's in the NFL since 1999: rode the bench for at least a few games, were expected to ride the bench their rookie year (until injuries called them into duty) or didn't see the field for longer.

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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.

There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.

He backed up Tom Friggen Brady! Do you think he should have beat him out of the starting job?

phrases have different meanings I guess.

Career Backup as in what has he done his career so far...ok yes I think you can describe Hoyer's career to this point as that.

Career Backup as in the future of his entire career. I don't think that can be assessed as a definite. I think its pretty obvious that we just don't know what he'll become. Career Backup could still be a possibility. A Tony Romo type career can be there. Who knows until we actually find out. Which is why I don't think we went after any of these (GOT TO GET THIS GUY QB) but also why I think we definitely are going to make an investment in the Draft.

I think its safe to say that he should be considered a "bridge" QB. He'll get his shot to start this season. IF a rookie beats him out...Gosh bless the rookie. More than likely Hoyer will start as long as he is successful. If we are out of the post season even if Hoyer looks OK we would probably start the rookie the last several games to get his feet wet.

jmho

One more thing though I have not changed my mind on Manziel being a top ten pick. He is not a top ten pick. Neither is Bortles.

Bridgewater is the only quarterback in "this" draft worthy of being a top ten pick.

Some Hoyer-facts:

1. Brian Hoyer never attempted more than 100 passes in any given NFL season.

2. The last time Hoyer had a significant sample size of throws and games was a SR in College. His stat line read: 180/353, 51%, 2404yds, 6.8yPA, 9 TDs, 9 INTs

I don't even like him as "bridge" QB, especially not coming off knee surgery. We should have signed a vet to push him, instead of depending on him and his recovery. Anything but QB with our first pick would be foolish at this point

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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.

There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.

He backed up Tom Friggen Brady! Do you think he should have beat him out of the starting job?

Did you say "backed up"?

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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.

I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.

There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.

He backed up Tom Friggen Brady! Do you think he should have beat him out of the starting job?

Did you say "backed up"?

in his career, he has backed up:

Tom Brady
Kevin Kolb
John Skelton
Ryan Lindley
Brandon Weeden

He was technically QB3 out of camp for us, but I won't say that he backed up Jason Campbell because when push came to shove, he started above him. But, in Arizona, those 3 guys each got starts before he did.

Some more Hoyer facts:

3. In 2012 and 2013 his comp% was 56.6 and 59.4%. He's never been a 60% accuracy QB, College or NFL. His TD/INT ratio was 6/5 in those two seasons and his yPA was 6.2 and 6.4. For comparisons sake: Weeden's career yPA was 6.5

"He is a winner" is pretty much looking like the Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow argument when t comes to Hoyer. This guy should not be considered a starter in the NFL, sorry.

I've come around on Johnny. I'd prefer Teddy, as I think he's the "safer" pick..

But dang would "Johnny Cleveland" be exciting to watch...

With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive

Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?

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With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive

Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?

Bridgewater.

If it was Bortles 2-3 years from now, when he isn't so raw, then hm. I don't know why he came out when he did, the guys just not ready...

If it's me 1 then I don't know how confident I'd feel in Bridgewater. I think he'll be able to move the ball pretty well though. I'd feel confident with him..

I guess in that scenario, if I'm taking them as they are, I'd honestly have to go with JM. He has that playmaking ability. And he's dripping with drive and motivation to be great. He might be moving ahead of Bridgewater for me.

Might as well take the chance.

JC

Couldn't/didn't read all posts, but I'll comment. He had a very good Pro Day as far as those things go.

I like Manziel a lot but I don't think the Pro Day changed anything regarding the main concerns about him. We all know he's accurate. We all know he wants to be a leader and separate himself. We all know he's a cocky SOB (which is good in a ball player).

Size (not height but rather his frame), willingness to stay in the pocket and follow through as opposed to giving up on a play- even a check down, potential off-field problems (not all that worried, actually) were not addressed at all, and they couldn't have been. The biggest plus for Manziel was the timing of his pro day and its polar opposite reaction to Bridgewater's Pro Day in the media world.

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With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive

Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?

Bridgewater.

Except that Teddy Bear didn't do well at his pro day when all the eyes were on him.

If you orchestrate a day when you are going to work out for the scouts and everybody shows up to see you work out, and you choke, it has to make some wonder what will he do when the game is on the line. No?

Bortels did his thing just fine. Johnny Football showed up in pads and helmet and was lights out, and Teddy left people like they just took a swig of beer from a can somebody used to snuff out a cigarette.

Yes, I know there is tape, but Teddy isn't the only bear who has impressive tape.

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With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive

Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?

Bridgewater.

Didn't Bortles do this very thing against Bridgewater and the Cardinals?

If you could guarantee that I could get Watkins at 4, and that Bridgewater would make out of the Top 10, for which I would IMMEDIATLEY trade up for him, I'd be ecstatic.

Obviously you can't.

I feel like now I would go all in on Manziel at 4. Grab either a CB or WR at 26. LB in the 2nd. Then a G and whatever you didn't get at 26 in the 3rd...

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With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive

Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?

Bridgewater.

Didn't Bortles do this very thing against Bridgewater and the Cardinals?

so teddy plays both sides of the ball? is he a FS?

That is the wrong question to be asking.

I didn't add Bridgewater's name to couple him into the defensive collapse. I added his name in terms of context for the 3 quarterbacks being discussed above. That game was awesome and it was versus two of the three guys being talked about. Someone referenced Bridgewater as their answer, I said Bortles' play against Bridgewater and his team.

You should be able identify the difference.

I can definitely see Manziel doing something like this:

Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel? The more I learn, the less I understand. This is confusing (perplexing?), so I'll simply go along for the ride with whomever the FO decides is their guy...

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If you orchestrate a day when you are going to work out for the scouts and everybody shows up to see you work out, and you choke, it has to make some wonder what will he do when the game is on the line. No?

Make some wonder, sure. Not me.

I can see where some would take stock in it, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But you could easily flip it around and point out that guys like Brandon Weeden and JaMarcus Russell had impressive pro days.

Based on what I've seen from watching their college play, Bridgewater is the one I'd choose. These workouts don't really do much to change my mind.

Overall, I'm not high on any of these guys. I don't think I'd take any of them at 4.

Bridgewater is the closest I'd come. I have concerns about his arm strength, but you can make it in the NFL with a weaker arm so long as you know where to go with it.

The older I get the more I tend to look at not only the player, but the team they're joining as well. If the Browns took Tom Brady, he'd probably be selling cars in Ann Arbor right now. If Carson Palmer hadn't have wound up in Cincinnati, I think he could've been at the top of the QB pile with some rings. What happens if we drafted Rodgers and threw him into the fire early? Are we Super Bowl champs, or is he on his second team trying to get over the hump? Etc.

In that regard, I think it's best to wait and see where people end up before making predictions on their NFL careers.

I still like Teddy the best. I love intelligence. I think that is what wins game at QB. The top qbs are all different sizes, but they have one thing in common--------they are all football smart.

Teddy is unbelievably intelligent. Two things I noticed, Gruden said Teddy was in the top 3 or 4 of all the qbs he has interviewed. However, he also said that there is no doubt about that part of his game. To me, that was like saying he doubted his physical skills. That bothered me a bit.

Manziel is my number two guy. He keeps rising and falling in my eyes. Not really from the 2nd position, but how close or how far away he is from Teddy and how far above or how close he is to Bortles. The Gruden interview was fascinating. There is just something about this kid that spells winner. He could energize a franchise. He could turn a franchise around. If ever a team needed a guy like Manziel, it's Cleveland. On the other hand, like Gruden said........you can't win games from the sidelines.

Bortles is my third guy. He has the weakest arm of the bunch. Yeah, he is the biggest, but his arm isn't as good. It's not bad, but I think it's BS when people say he has the best arm of the three. He has some "it" to him because he is good at the end of games. What worries me about him is that he doesn't look off the safety and he isn't great at going through his progressions. He also makes some very poor reads. Great upside, though.

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That is the wrong question to be asking.

I didn't add Bridgewater's name to couple him into the defensive collapse. I added his name in terms of context for the 3 quarterbacks being discussed above. That game was awesome and it was versus two of the three guys being talked about. Someone referenced Bridgewater as their answer, I said Bortles' play against Bridgewater and his team.

You should be able identify the difference.

my bad. i should've added the purpl font and an "lol". i wasn't actually serious.

I loved the Gruden QB camp with Manziel. I also loved the footballs without laces and the fact Manziel was like a kid with a new toy, I want some of those!!!! lol I have seen guys with good sized hands spin the ball to get the laces, the way Manziel was just engulfing the ball and slinging it was exactly what you need in Dec. May have been the Best Gruden I have seen as well.

If you watched his footwork during both the proday and Grudens work out he was squaring his body. Not perfect but I saw tremendous improvement and that is why he was getting so much zip on the ball. The opposite is true on Bridgewater, What was pretty good mechanics was erratic and he was pushing the ball.

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With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive

Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?

Who else but Manziel???????????

The others don't come close and I'm tired of hearing about the over-hyped Bridgewater.
Look at Louisville's schedule and get back to me.

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I still like Teddy the best. I love intelligence. I think that is what wins game at QB. The top qbs are all different sizes, but they have one thing in common--------they are all football smart.

Teddy is unbelievably intelligent. Two things I noticed, Gruden said Teddy was in the top 3 or 4 of all the qbs he has interviewed. However, he also said that there is no doubt about that part of his game. To me, that was like saying he doubted his physical skills. That bothered me a bit.

Manziel is my number two guy. He keeps rising and falling in my eyes. Not really from the 2nd position, but how close or how far away he is from Teddy and how far above or how close he is to Bortles. The Gruden interview was fascinating. There is just something about this kid that spells winner. He could energize a franchise. He could turn a franchise around. If ever a team needed a guy like Manziel, it's Cleveland. On the other hand, like Gruden said........you can't win games from the sidelines.

Bortles is my third guy. He has the weakest arm of the bunch. Yeah, he is the biggest, but his arm isn't as good. It's not bad, but I think it's BS when people say he has the best arm of the three. He has some "it" to him because he is good at the end of games. What worries me about him is that he doesn't look off the safety and he isn't great at going through his progressions. He also makes some very poor reads. Great upside, though.

Even more impressive was the interviews with Warner and Mayock after his Pro Day was done. This kids HUNGRY for success. Me likes that. Talking to Brady and Manning is a great start.

2 minutes left and down by 3. I like he and Bridgewater for their shorter route accuracy. But Manziel BY A LANDSLIDE when creativity is needed. His FEET will get you that 1st down on 3rd and 7 with 30 seconds left. He strikes me like he'd rather lose a leg than lose.

I'm set in stone on this.

Bridgewater or Manziel at 4. NO OTHER WAY TO GO PEOPLE. Stop the ignorant talk of either being there at 26. WILL NOT HAPPEN.
Fuller CB Perfect #2 with Size and Press Man talent
Mathews WR Perfect #2 with Size
Borland ILB Finishes this defense
OG

THAT will put us in a playoff hunt NOW.

I think Manziel would be the more exciting QB to watch.. until he throws his first pick 6.. lol..

but really tho.. my QB wishlist goes like this...

1) Bridgewater
2) Manziel

skips a few rounds

3) Aaron Murray
4) Tajh Boyd

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I like Hoyer and all but he's a career backup.

I thought that he became the starter last season until the season-ending injury.

He replaced Brandon Weeden...let me repeat...Brandon Weeden...who was not this regime's QB and by the way Hoyer isn't either..

If I was afraid, due to precedence, that my job depended on success..I too would want the QB that I personally choose leading my fate.

You could be right, but you should remember that Farmer was part of the group that DID bring in both Campbell & Hoyer. He was the Asst. GM under Lombardi. That isn't to say that he was Lombardi agreed on much (if anything), but he was part of that group.

Also, he is the only QB that they kept on the roster of the QBs that started games for the Browns last season. They thought that he was worth at least that much.

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in his career, he has backed up:

Tom Brady
Kevin Kolb
John Skelton
Ryan Lindley
Brandon Weeden

He was technically QB3 out of camp for us, but I won't say that he backed up Jason Campbell because when push came to shove, he started above him. But, in Arizona, those 3 guys each got starts before he did.

Arizona traded for Kolb (a player, DRC, who was a 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection) so, he was going to start over Hoyer.

Both Skelton and Lindley were draft picks of the team. You'll recall that Hoyer went undrafted.

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With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive

Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?

Bridgewater.

Didn't Bortles do this very thing against Bridgewater and the Cardinals?

In their own house!

First half

2nd half

Manziel does more to find ways to generate points than any other QB in the past ten years...He will come up short, but he won't throw the ball away on 4th and 10 just because he has a defender in his face and doesn't want to get hit. He will find a way to get the ball in the vicinity of a receiver past those down markers. That extends drives and scores points, which hopefully won't be matched when his defense takes the field like at A&M. He has anything resembling a BCS caliber defense and Manziel wins 2 National Championships...

The Browns are putting together a top flight defense, with someone who inspires on the other side of the ball, maybe, just maybe they get the job done late in games.

Manziel is my guy in that scenario.

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He will come up short, but he won't throw the ball away on 4th and 10 just because he has a defender in his face and doesn't want to get hit

Hope he's strong enough and tough enough to take that hit if he can't get out of the way.

Watching the clips from his pro day, yeah, he's very athletic.. No question. He's a guy that seems to be able to make things happen.

I do have to wonder, and this is really my only question, the things he did in college, will he be able to do them in the Pros. I mean the Pros are bigger, faster and more well trained and developed than his opponents in college. Can he do those things against those guys?

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As NFL spokesman Randall Liu explained it via e-mail, each team may transport a maximum of 30 draft-eligible players to the team’s home city or another location for a one-day physical examination. These players cannot be timed and tested. Interviews and written tests may be conducted during the visit.

Yes anarchy, but I find it ironic that when cleaning house, Lombardi and Banner are banished, while Farmer is promoted after a 4 win season. I can only surmise that Lombardi, whom Banner brought in, wouldn't consult with Haslem's guy (Farmer) the way he had hoped. Thus remove Banner (who bay all accounts was nearly forced upon Haslem from the NFL Front office) and his henchman and replace them with the guy Haslem really wanted to influence the roster all along.

Did Farmer have influence on the QB position? No one will ever know that, but one of the two pieces that tandem brought in is already gone, and the other one could be replaced in as little as 6 weeks. When evaluating assets, which is what a businessman like Haslem does for a living, which one is has value? The journey vet who cannot find a starting position despite his experience and was not effective in any of his starts the year before? Or, the journeyman backup, who finally was given a chance to start and was semi-efficient enough to win his only two(three) starts the same year with the same team?

With Campbell, you have what you have..There isn't much room for marketing that asset, cutting losses was about all you would ever receive, so do it and move on.

Hoyer is something you can actually market, whether he is in your future plans or not. He showed enough to do one of two things...1) Keep and have an efficient veteran backup for your future hopeful stud or 2) If he isn't satisfied after tasting the starter success, turn it into draft money in the form of a trade after acquiring a QB at pick #4.

Question is, what kind of trade research can you do prior to the draft when your main goal is to keep it under wraps of your draft intentions...You can't, so the value will be diminished and you might as well keep Hoyer as that valuable backup.

Still much to ride on for the coaching staff who had ZERO to do with bringing Hoyer in as their fate hangs in the balance.

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I do have to wonder, and this is really my only question, the things he did in college, will he be able to do them in the Pros. I mean the Pros are bigger, faster and more well trained and developed than his opponents in college. Can he do those things against those guys?

Are they bigger, faster and more well trained?

Seemed to me that he faced his future NFL opponents on Saturdays on a regular basis..Most of the ones he faced are in the same boat he is being drafted to take him on, on Sundays.

Are they better trained in the NFL? Of course...Will HE be better trained in the NFL? Of course!!!

I would like to think he is smart enough to avoid those who can do the most damage to him. Just as he adapted from 2012 to 2013 in the form of running and taking on head on collisions, I expect the same adjustment at the next level. There is nothing by way of his career to show me he is stubborn and refuses to adapt.

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Arizona traded for Kolb (a player, DRC, who was a 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection) so, he was going to start over Hoyer.

Both Skelton and Lindley were draft picks of the team. You'll recall that Hoyer went undrafted.

And Belichick also believed so strongly in Hoyer that he drafted two QBs to replace him in consectutive years, he survived a 7th round draft pick, then was permanently replaced the following year by a 3rd round choice. So is that Hoyer's value? Lower than a 3rd round choice?

If so, then my conclusions are that he can be a consistent starter, but his ceiling is extremely low to put this team on his shoulders when the need arises, like 4 wins needed in the playoffs to hoist a Lombardi Trophy...That is my ultimate goal and I want the guy who does posses those attributes leading the team.

Belichick had to draft Mallett because of value. He then cut Hoyer because they never carry more than two QBs.

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I do have to wonder, and this is really my only question, the things he did in college, will he be able to do them in the Pros. I mean the Pros are bigger, faster and more well trained and developed than his opponents in college. Can he do those things against those guys?

Are they bigger, faster and more well trained?

Seemed to me that he faced his future NFL opponents on Saturdays on a regular basis..Most of the ones he faced are in the same boat he is being drafted to take him on, on Sundays.

Are they better trained in the NFL? Of course...Will HE be better trained in the NFL? Of course!!!

I would like to think he is smart enough to avoid those who can do the most damage to him. Just as he adapted from 2012 to 2013 in the form of running and taking on head on collisions, I expect the same adjustment at the next level. There is nothing by way of his career to show me he is stubborn and refuses to adapt.

Yes, I'd say that by and large, the ones CURRENTLY in the NFL are bigger, faster and more well trained than a rookie coming into the league.

I am starting to think that Manziel has the highest superstar potential of any QB in this draft. I think that he could be a guy who takes his team to a championship based on what he brings more than what any other player on the team brings.

I also think that he could blow up and completely bust.

Bridgewater seems like a guy with a really high floor, but I don't know how high his ceiling is. I think that he can be a competent QB, but I don't know if he'll ever be a superstar. However, a very competent QB can be enough to win with ... I just don't know if it's enough to win it all with.

Bortles appears to be the most "prototypical" of the top 3 QBs. He has the size most teams covet. He is 6'5" and 232#, has quick feet and is said to have solid footwork in the pocket. He doesn't have a rocket arm, but I have seen and read that he can make all of the throws very well. He appears to have good accuracy. Unfortunately, he also is the most inconsistent of the top 3. According to CBS, he could be Andrew Luck. or he could be Jake Locker. Big difference there.

Whoever winds up making the 1st QB decision is going to really have a hard choice.

Here is some stats "hype" from the A&M website. If A&M had any kind of defense Johnny would have made them National Champs. Competition wise, between the top three QB prospects A&M schedule blows the other two away.

There just isn't a better, more exciting player to watch. Manziel has the wins, the stats, more stats and the swag to back it all up. But for some reason, Heisman talk has been pretty quiet surrounding Manziel. Sure, he won the award last year, and his in-your-face offseason created some Manziel fatigue, but you can't ignore Manziel's 2013 body of work.

Through 10 games, Manziel leads the SEC and ranks third nationally with 3,313 passing yards. He's second nationally with a completion percentage of 73.0 and 31 passing touchdowns, and he is third with an efficiency rating of 186.9. He leads the SEC with 331.3 passing yards per game and is also 12th in the league with 611 rushing yards and eight touchdowns. Manziel has thrown for more than 300 yards six times -- and in four of those he surpassed 400 yards -- and has thrown three or more touchdowns seven times.

He ranks fourth nationally with a QBR of 88.5.

At this point last year, Manziel had 2,780 passing yards and 18 touchdown passes. Yeah, he's thrown for 533 more yards and 13 more touchdowns this season.

No, Manziel isn't slicing up defenses with his feet like he did last year, but he's a much better passer and he's still capable of doing mind-blowing things like this.

This was supposed to be a season in which the fame and offseason gallivanting clouded Manziel's on-field vision. No way was he going to sniff duplicating his fantastic freshman campaign. His focus wouldn't be there, and he'd more than likely turn into a shell of his former self.

Well, Johnny Football only got better! He goes through his progressions, reads defenses and likes to throw first. Sure, he could carve up any defense at will, but he'd rather throw this year. He'd rather look at his second and third options before taking off. And when he does take off, good luck. The quarterback/ballerina can shimmy and shake his way past a drove of defenders with relative ease, but he has been more guarded this season, and that hasn't been a bad thing.

Manziel also is putting up Playstation numbers with his own defense collapsing around him. The Aggies' defense has been dreadful, giving up a league-high 454.4 yards per game and more than 30 points a contest. Manziel is trampling defenses in spite of his defense.

But Manziel has two losses, you'll shout! He has 11 interceptions, you howl. Yes and yes, but he also had two losses and nine interceptions last year, yet ran away with the Heisman.

Look at his numbers in losses. In the 49-42 loss to No. 1 Alabama, which ranks sixth nationally in total defense, he rallied his team back from a 35-14 deficit with 464 passing yards, five touchdowns and 98 rushing yards. In the 45-41 loss to Auburn, Manziel threw for 454 yards and four touchdowns, while adding 48 rushing yards and another score. What was even more impressive about his play was that he completed 10 passes for 102 yards and ran for a touchdown after an apparent shoulder injury.

Compare his numbers in losses to those of former Heisman frontrunner Marcus Mariota in Oregon's loss to Stanford, and it's not even a close race. Mariota threw for 250 yards and two scores against the Cardinal, but he ran for minus-16 and didn't lead the Ducks to a scoring drive until the fourth quarter. Manziel either gets in the end zone or leads his teams to scores while lighting up the stat sheet no matter the outcome.

Injuries don't faze him. You saw it against Auburn, and you saw it when his knee buckled during his 470 total-yard performance in the Aggies' 41-38 win over Ole Miss.

The kid is a machine, and he's darn near impossible to stop.

As the clock winds down on college football season, we finally can get into the nitty gritty of the Heisman race. At this point, it's all about Johnny Football and Florida State freshman quarterback phenom Jameis Winston, who trails Manziel by 1,106 total offensive yards and nine touchdowns.
http://standouts.aggieathletics.com/manziel/

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Arizona traded for Kolb (a player, DRC, who was a 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection) so, he was going to start over Hoyer.

Both Skelton and Lindley were draft picks of the team. You'll recall that Hoyer went undrafted.

And Belichick also believed so strongly in Hoyer that he drafted two QBs to replace him in consectutive years, he survived a 7th round draft pick, then was permanently replaced the following year by a 3rd round choice. So is that Hoyer's value? Lower than a 3rd round choice?

If so, then my conclusions are that he can be a consistent starter, but his ceiling is extremely low to put this team on his shoulders when the need arises, like 4 wins needed in the playoffs to hoist a Lombardi Trophy...That is my ultimate goal and I want the guy who does posses those attributes leading the team.

His value can be whatever he shows it to be. Kurt Warner, a shoe-in HOF QB, proved his NFL credentials and didn't get his shot until age 28. He languished in the area league and NFL Europe.

For what it's worth, so has Tony Romo, another undrafted QB, despite his troubles in the post-season. Romo didn't even see the field as a QB for the first three years. He sat behind Quincy Carter and Chad Hutchinson. Hutchinson was cut and Testaverde was signed. Then Carter was cut (drug use) and the Cowboys traded for Drew Henson. Then, after Testaverde left, they signed Drew Bledsoe. It wasn't until Bledsoe began to stink up the joint that Romo got his shot. That was in 2006, three years after he was signed by the Cowboys as a college free agent.

jc

This scout pretty much saw the same thing I did, including his comments about both TEs, lol

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...ther-way-around

Scout: Mike Evans made Johnny Manziel, not other way around
By Dan Parr

It was somewhat lost in the immediate aftermath of Johnny Manziel Mania coming off last week's pro day at Texas A&M, but wide receiver Mike Evans might have put on an even more impressive performance than his teammate during the workout.

NFL Media senior analyst Gil Brandt, who was on hand for the event, had the highest praise for Evans, tweeting that Evans had the best hands he had seen since Calvin Johnson. The reactions to Evans' showing only reinforced the notion that he might be picked before Manziel, the player who has overshadowed Evans and every other prospect this year given his celebrity status.

Evans might not be getting overshadowed by Manziel much on the draft boards of NFL teams, though.

One NFC scout apparently is much more impressed with Evans than Johnny Football, saying that Manziel has been the bigger beneficiary in the QB-WR relationship.

"In my opinion, (Evans) made Johnny Manziel, not the other way around," the unnamed scout told NJ.com "A lot of times, Manziel just ran around and threw it up for grabs, and (Evans) came down with it."

The two combined to form one of college football's most dominant QB-WR connections over the past two seasons, and it's true that Evans' rare combination of size, leaping ability and sure-handedness made him a perfect target to make plays on jump-balls thrown by Manziel that other receivers wouldn't have been able to make. It's also true that Evans wouldn't have had an opportunity to make many of those plays if Manziel didn't have the arm and improvisational skills to make the throws.

Neither Evans or Manziel totally "made" the other. The two complemented each other well, but there certainly are fewer questions about Evans' game translating to the NFL than there are for Manziel's. Barring them somehow ending up on the same NFL team, the question of who was the bigger beneficiary of the connection could be settled before long.

In addition to the scout's comment on Evans, an unnamed AFC personnel executive had some strong criticism for the top tight ends in this year's draft published in the NJ.com article.

Here's a look at what he had to say about North Carolina's Eric Ebron, considered the top tight end available this year, and Washington's Austin Seferian-Jenkins, who is listed No. 2 at tight end in NFL Media draft analyst Mike Mayock's positional top-five rankings.

» On whether Ebron is as good as Tyler Eifert, the first tight end drafted last year (21st overall to the Bengals):

"Hell no. He's OK. He's completely overrated, and he's a pain in the (butt). And don't ask him to block anybody, because he's not going to do it."

» On Seferian-Jenkins:

"He's more overrated and a bigger pain in the (butt) than the other guy. And he blocks like a wide receiver. I don't want any part of him."

What a load of horse crap. Aside from ONE play that he "Threw up for Grabs" which was against Alabama, that guy is talking out of his butt. I'd challenge him to show me the clips of that.

I have heard that many times, and every time I ask for some proof it goes back to that ONE play against Alabama.

http://www.youtube.com/v/x_tdCDj4dNY

I just randomly picked a "highlight" vid from Manziel, and even there were some of those. If you watch the condensed games with EVERY throw you will see many more of them, not all completions and thus not all make highlight clips. You need to watch an entire game to see it, but from this vid alone

1. Throw at 1:05. He just lobbed it into the EZ in triple coverage. Evans saved his butt. Dumb ass throw

2. 2:30, the Bama play

The rest of this highlight does not have those "up for grabs" throws, but most big plays on it were to Evans simply owning his CB 1on1. But again, those up for grabbers exist when you watch some of his incompletions and INTs too, not just highlights

Yep, both poor decisions and the one which I already mentioned. So we're taking two throws out of hundreds and throwing a blanket statement on him?

It's seeing what you want to see. I went through his worst game of the year at LSU. Anything that even "looked" like a "throw up" I jotted down here.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/johnny-manziel-vs-lsu-2013/

1:30 -1:36 - That is a fantastic throw. He looks off the safety with his eyes and throws a great back shoulder fade. Evans lacks the athleticism to reel that one in. Some could argue that is "Throwing it up for grabs". I guess it depends how you WANT to see it.

6:10 - 6:19 - It's 4th down and goal, I guess you could call that "Throwing it up for grabs" but it's 4th down, his guard got beat like he stole something. Eye of the beholder.

7:00 - 7:06 - Again, instant pressure, escapes and "Throws it up" for a first down. Just depends on how you want to see that.

7:42 -7:52 - decent, not great (kind of a floater) back shoulder throw for TD. Depending on how you want to look at it, you could say he "Threw it up".

8:31 - 8:49 - His first INT, Evans ran the wrong route or Manziel threw the wrong route, either way Evans was no where to be found.

12:05 - 12:16 - Another one you could easily see as "Throwing it up"...Evans is standing around by himself.

12:23 - 12:32 - In my mind that's a poorly thrown back shoulder fade, but it was still almost a touchdown. Call it "Throwing it up" for Evans if you want, but that's not what it is.

12:42 - 13:00 - Terrible decision to throw the ball there, but it was hardly "throwing it up"

Now what I see when I watch this film is this. LSU was bringing a corner blitz on (if I had to guesstimate) 40% of these plays and getting pressure on almost every single down. What I see is Mike Evans playing against cover 1, if not zero and not getting open. Most of the clutch 3rd down plays are made by receivers other than Evans.

Now I haven't been high on Evans. He had these huge, monster (statistical) games and he vanished in the rest. We're talking about a guy who only had 5 100 yard games this year, in this video LSU shut him DOWN with Freshman corners. He was a ghost against Missou and couldn't crack 100 yards against Duke.

I think he lacks the speed to be a #1, that's just me, but even if you believe Evans to be a #1. To say that Evans "Made" Manziel is ridiculous, Evans had 1,300 and 12 TD's, Manziel threw for 4,100 yards and 37 TD's.

Beyond all of this, beyond the numbers, what can be proven is, how many opportunities did Manziel CREATE for Evans to make great catches? Where as other QBs would have been sacked. I'm not going through all of the film again. I just know, from having watched all the throws, that saying Evans made Manziel is hogwash.

If anything really concerns me upon watching his worst game of the season it would be 1. The overthrows, I think I counted 6 and 2. The hits he takes, he's got to slide.

It's all good. It really is a chicken-egg thing when arguing Evans-Manziel. I just posted a scout's view who happened to agree with my opinion. There ARE also legit arguments for Manziel, no doubt.

Manziel, to me, falls into the same fifty-fifty "roll the dice" category Weeden was in. Totally opposite players, but when it comes to boom/bust actually pretty similar. I was higher on Weeden though and tend to think Manziel will bust, but I'd still roll the dice, because even a 25% chance of hitting the jackpot is better than doing nothing and not taking a chance. 25% is still better than 0%, that's how I see it. I had the same argument when I pimped Weeden. You gotta at least try. Drafting "not to lose" when you don't have a QB on the roster is not even trying.

Since we still don't have a QB, I'd be ok if we took a shot with him....just not as our first pick and not in the top 10. If he falls to 26? Or past Top 15 for a cheap trade up? Sure, flip the coin. I wouldn't be a fan of it, but I'd understand

You still gotta take the right guy. I think we would have been much better off if we had taken Wilson, Foles, Kirk Cousins, or even Brock Osweiler in that draft....

Actually ouch -- of the next 4 QBs to be drafted, at least three are legit. That was a really deep QB draft and we were the only team to strike out.

I'm not sure about that. Wilson, of course, but the others?

Even Foles. Put Foles in our Offense without a Shady he can work off of and he'd look much less like a franchise QB. Better than Weeden? or "better off"? Sure, but not sure any of them outside Wilson would have been the solution given our situation.

Osweiler has shown nothing yet and Cousins is somehow incredibly overrated around here because he happened to have his magic moment in a spot start against us.

I actually prefer those boom/bust guys over guys like Foles, Cousins, Colt etc...who can be a tease and you end up wasting way too much time hoping to win "around them". With guys like Weeden or Manziel or even Carr....you will either have a top 10 guy or guy who nobody considers starting material after 20 or so games.

Since it's opening day, I'll put this argument in a baseball metaphor: do you want your cleanup hitter to be a power bat with high K % or a singles and doubles hitter with OBP skills? You can win both ways, but if you have the latter, you need more talent and good hitters around that. Maybe Haslam should call the A's for advice to build a winner

Nick Foles threw 27 TD and 2 INT last year. He was (by QBR) the 5th best QB in the league.

I would also call Osweiler boom/bust -- all we know as of now is that he is not good enough to beat out Peyton Manning.

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Cousins is somehow incredibly overrated around here because he happened to have his magic moment in a spot start against us.

He basically had one play that worked against us., Of course the skins kept running it over and over and over again and we never adjusted to stop it. But if we took that one play (how ever many times they ran it) against us away then nobody is talking about Cousins at all.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I just hate it because I've read more than a few articles on Manziel saying he just "Chucks it up there" for Evans to bail him out and it's hogwash.

Sure he has his flaws, but it's just lazy journalism to me.

At the end of the day I would not be upset with Manziel at #4. If we pass on him and he somehow slides past Minnesota, which is unlikely, I'd start calling teams in the 14-20 range looking to move up.

JMO

I think having Evans actually made Manziel a bit lazy in his progressions as he knew when in doubt throw it up to Evans lol. The guy is a freak and will be a star in this league but Manziel may be an even bigger star.

So,not taking it to the same extreme, but Evans-Manziel is a little of the Justin Blackmon/Brandon Weeden thing... Who Made Who?

Well, we know now for certain who made who with Weeden & Blackmon, but before the draft, and the first year after, it wasn't quite as clear.

Evans would look REALLY good opposite Gordon. I know that much, for sure. Super big, hands of gold.... that's a dangerous combo right there.

You put your best hitter 3rd, not 4th. I want a guy who makes contact and can hit to all parts of the field. Power is cool, but I prefer line drive hitters.

About Evans.............the guy is talented, but I think he is one of the riskiest picks in the entire draft. He is not a good route runner, he is too emotional, he is immature, and he relies too much on his great size and leaping ability, which will be somewhat negated in the NFL.

I am not saying he will bust or be a disappointment, but I think there is a pretty good chance of him disappointing if he is chose fairly high in round one.

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About Evans.............

He may also be penalty-prone as he is very physical and pushes-off a lot.

j/c...

how many passes did Brett Favre just "throw up" for his WR to go get?

His route running shocked me at the pro day. Probably the biggest jump i have seen in a receiver. I think he put himself in the top 5, although I had him there already. Evans and Gordon would make me a very happy camper.

Qbs are gonna fall.

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So,not taking it to the same extreme, but Evans-Manziel is a little of the Justin Blackmon/Brandon Weeden thing... Who Made Who?

Well, we know now for certain who made who with Weeden & Blackmon, but before the draft, and the first year after, it wasn't quite as clear.

Evans would look REALLY good opposite Gordon. I know that much, for sure. Super big, hands of gold.... that's a dangerous combo right there.

There is no doubt that Evans was a huge safety net for Manziel, but people act like he was the only guy that JM was throwing to, and when making the argument against Manziel, they point to that ridiculous scramble play against Alabama as if that's what Johnny does every play.

I think if you asked JM, he'd tell you he can't get away with that at the next level. Not that that extereme. There's no doubt that with his quick feet, and these rules that make the QB untouchable, that he can still move around....

I'm not worried about him getting hurt, or not being able to move around. What I want to know is when teams on certain plays are able to get contain, how does he react?

Russ Wilson struggled with that in the NFC championship game at times. Still, when the big play needed to be made, he threw a beauty for a TD.

I've been watching a lot of Johnny's games from the last 2 years, and it's really cool to see how much better he got from year 1 to 2. His feet are amazing too. Combine that with good arm strength, and a great feel for the game, and I am on board with getting him.

I'm not Johnny or nothing, or trade up to assure you get JM, but that's the guy I want right now.

If we draft him, and he fails, I don't even care. At least they tried. I feel like we've shortchanged ourselves with drafting and developing QB's that if they pull this move, I will tip my cap and say they went about it the right way.

Carr is my #1 QB and Evans is my #1 overall but there is no player that could do more to change the culture of losing in Cleveland than Manziel. I also feel in Shannahan's scheme (more of what was run in Texas) heavy run, mix in the play action naked bootleg and let him go. I saw Johny football wear down college defenses with his running around and with their huge rosters. I am curious to see defenders wear down chasing him lol, especially with them using pretty much all zone.

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Carr is my #1 QB and Evans is my #1 overall but there is no player that could do more to change the culture of losing in Cleveland than Manziel. I also feel in Shannahan's scheme (more of what was run in Texas) heavy run, mix in the play action naked bootleg and let him go. I saw Johny football wear down college defenses with his running around and with their huge rosters. I am curious to see defenders wear down chasing him lol, especially with them using pretty much all zone.

I think the big thing for him is that being able to take off and run past the LOS has to be something that is in your back pocket... He had a lot of double digit rush games last year (14 rushes against Bama). I don't think you can go about it like that, and I think JM can adjust.

Hell with all the fines, he is safer running in the AFC North than he was in the SEC. Its not the same league it was even when Vick entered the league. Most of the QB injuries in the NFL seem to be guys dont know how to slide or hit a hand on the helmet. target low its a flag, target high its a flag, in the grasp, anything will draw a flag anymore.

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Hell with all the fines, he is safer running in the AFC North than he was in the SEC. Its not the same league it was even when Vick entered the league. Most of the QB injuries in the NFL seem to be guys dont know how to slide or hit a hand on the helmet. target low its a flag, target high its a flag, in the grasp, anything will draw a flag anymore.

It benefits Wilson so much. He is so smart about getting down in time. If Manziel can adopt the same mentality, he'll be fine...

Sometimes, bad things happen though, I think Hoyer is a pretty smart guy too and it got the best of him last year. Other than a handful of established guys, all QB's run and all of them can have Hoyer's injury happen to them. Whoever we draft if we take someone will have that risk. That's why it doesn't bother me as much.

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Johnny Manziel to file for new Trademark

Johnny Manziel bids for new phrase
Updated: April 3, 2014, 3:56 PM ET
By Darren Rovell | ESPN.com

Former Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel continues to set himself up to cash in on his future. In line to eventually secure a "Johnny Football" trademark, Manziel's team filed for more trademarks recently, including "The House That Johnny Built."

But just like the trademark for "Johnny Football," Manziel is actually second in line, and the person who is first might raise eyebrows among Aggies fans.

Fitch Estate Sales, a company owned by the family of Nate Fitch, Manziel's friend who was with the quarterback at many of the autograph signings that resulted in a half-game suspension, was first to the phrase.

Fitch's mother, Rachel, declined to comment. Her attorney, Gerald Fowler, told ESPN.com that it was his understanding that Nate and Johnny were going to use the trademark together.

[+] EnlargeJohnny Manziel
Scott Halleran/Getty ImagesJohnny Manziel's team has another marketing phrase in the works.

"My guess is that there was a lack of communication here," Fowler said.

Fitch Estate Sales, which filed for the trademark in December, and Manziel, whose company filed a month later, both submitted applications to the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office that said they intended to use the phrase on athletic apparel. Manziel's filing was first reported Wednesday by TMZ.

If Fitch and Manziel were on the same page, one has to wonder why Manziel's team filed for the phrase on its own. Fowler said he hasn't had any conversations with Manziel's attorneys about pursuing the trademark together. Two of Manziel's attorneys did not return calls from ESPN seeking comment.

If Fitch doesn't have approval from Manziel, it might be tough for him to win the rights. A trademark that refers to a living individual often has to be approved by that person.

Lack of permission is what stopped Kenneth R. Reynolds Family Investments from being able to trademark "Johnny Football." The firm, based in College Station, Texas, filed for "Johnny Football" before Manziel did, but the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office ultimately said the firm needed the consent of Manziel, which it did not get. Last week, the firm agreed to assign its "Johnny Football" rights to Manziel, allowing Manziel's application -- which had been suspended on Dec. 31 -- to proceed.

Fowler said the trademark, an obvious play on the famous Babe Ruth/Yankee Stadium phrase, was a reference to the renovation of Texas A&M's Kyle Field, a $450 million project that will expand capacity to 102,500 and is scheduled to be completed in time for the 2015 season. A Texas A&M official did not immediately return a call seeking comment as to whether Manziel had discussed his trademark filing with the school.

Manziel has been a polarizing figure since his Heisman Trophy-winning season at A&M two years ago.

Pro Football Hall of Fame cornerback Deion Sanders is one of many in football to weigh in on the aura of Manziel, telling "The Tom Joyner Show" on Wednesday he "loves Johnny Football" and that the reason some people won't accept him is because of Manziel's "ghetto tendencies."

When pressed on the subject, Sanders said that what he meant by ghetto tendencies was Manziel's being "cocky, flamboyant" and not shy about telling others of his success.

While Sanders had nothing but praise for Manziel, the spectacle surrounding his pro day last week and his celebrity status concerned new Vikings coach Mike Zimmer, who said "flags" popped up when the team met with Manziel for a private workout.

Manziel's pro day included the presence of former President George H.W. Bush and his wife, Barbara, and her two dogs, music from hip hop artist Drake being blasted through the building and the flashy quarterback wearing camouflage shorts, a black Nike jersey with his white No. 2 as well as a helmet and shoulder pads. Nike, which signed Manziel to an endorsement deal, is selling the clothes he wore on his pro day, including the jersey for $180.

Zimmer told the Houston Chronicle it was a "sideshow."

1. What's up Zimmer's Grumpy Old Man butt lately?

2. Manziel should probably simmuh down now...

Johnny Football is who Johnny Football is. If a team doesn't want what he is, then they shouldn't draft him.

He' going full on Lebron. This is very much like the hype surrounding RG III when he came out.

If the NFL doesn't work out for him, he's got a name for his construction company.

Johnny Ghetto?

Johnny Manziel is one of the most controversial NFL prospects we've seen in a while. And Deion Sanders just made him a lot more controversial by saying that Manziel has "ghetto tendencies."

Sanders, speaking with Roland Martin said people "won't accept" those "tendencies."

"I love Johnny Football," Sanders said while adding that the Houston Texans should take the QB No. 1 overall. "See, the reason people won't accept Johnny Football is because Johnny Football has ghetto tendencies. I love Johnny Football."

According to the transcript on Martin's website, Sanders was then asked what exactly ghetto tendencies are.

"Because he was successful, he made it, and he let you all know he made it, and he was cocky, he was flamboyant, and he let you know," Sanders said.

The interview first started getting traction on Wednesday night via Black Sports Online. When that happened, Sanders tweeted that he "never said that."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...etto-tendencies

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"I love Johnny Football," Sanders said while adding that the Houston Texans should take the QB No. 1 overall. "See, the reason people won't accept Johnny Football is because Johnny Football has ghetto tendencies. I love Johnny Football."

Man, I'll tell you. If this is truly what he said, Deion is a moron. These guys need to focus more on thinking about what they're saying before they say things. At least if they want to be taken seriously they need to start thinking.......

That's like something you'd say to your buddies at a bar, lol. Not in an interview.......

Maybe he was saying exactly what he was thinking?

Guess its better than Rob Stewart calling RGIII a cornball brother hahahaha

ghetto tendancies lol I can picture Manziel being on an episode of Jerry springer

Wow, you guys let this Johnny Cleveland thread lay dormant since Saturday. Now "what would Johnny do?"

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ghetto tendancies lol I can picture Manziel being on an episode of Jerry springer

I would like to lay that to rest... people in College Station do NOT date their cousins... well at least not their 1st cousins

jc

another reason why I don't want Manziel

Manziel applies for “The House That Johnny Built” trademark

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...uilt-trademark/

No wonder our bold lighning rods liked him a lot...

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jc

another reason why I don't want Manziel

Manziel applies for “The House That Johnny Built” trademark

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...uilt-trademark/

No wonder our bold lighning rods liked him a lot...

In other breaking news .....

Sorry, it's just that this story was originally posted here almost a week ago.

I am beginning to think that I do not want us to Manziel. It has more to do with his physical stature, and his abilities, then anything else though. (though I agree that this kind of stuff doesn't help)

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I am beginning to think that I do not want us to Manziel.

Great, now his last name has become a verb.

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I am beginning to think that I do not want us to Manziel.

Great, now his last name has become a verb.

And you didn't see that coming?

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I am beginning to think that I do not want us to Manziel.

Great, now his last name has become a verb.

That would make two QBs in a row that that has happened.

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I am beginning to think that I do not want us to Manziel.

Great, now his last name has become a verb.

That would make two QBs in a row that that has happened.

Funniest, most depressing tweet of the year.

Yea, I expected it. Just not this soon. Took Tebow half a season.

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I am beginning to think that I do not want us to Manziel.

Great, now his last name has become a verb.

Is it a dance? I need to learn how to Manziel..

It's really fairly understated..

Spent some time looking at Manziel's highlight reels. I'm liking him more than I did. Granted, a lot of the highlights are against competition that will never set foot on an NFL field (Evans makes the defenders look dazed). He's got that Kaepernic factor.

The swagger-on-steroids is being driven by his agent. Manziel will make a fortune in endorsements. Why not cash in? He'll learn to let his play speak for itself.
He's got to earn the team's respect as well...he'll have it with wins and sick stats.

If we take either Bridgewater or Manziel at 4 I will be happy...

More so Bridgewater.

I know most, including me, don't really care about the Wonderlic test. But Manziel got the highest score of all the QBs at the combine this year.

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I know most, including me, don't really care about the Wonderlic test. But Manziel got the highest score of all the QBs at the combine this year.

The 'incredibly smart' QB I've heard so much about (Bridgewater) scored a 20.

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I know most, including me, don't really care about the Wonderlic test. But Manziel got the highest score of all the QBs at the combine this year.

The 'incredibly smart' QB I've heard so much about (Bridgewater) scored a 20.

hail johnny!

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I know most, including me, don't really care about the Wonderlic test. But Manziel got the highest score of all the QBs at the combine this year.

The 'incredibly smart' QB I've heard so much about (Bridgewater) scored a 20.

Have you seen the Wonderlic test? Or are you joking?

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I know most, including me, don't really care about the Wonderlic test. But Manziel got the highest score of all the QBs at the combine this year.

The 'incredibly smart' QB I've heard so much about (Bridgewater) scored a 20.

Have you seen the Wonderlic test? Or are you joking?

I'm half serious.

I was incorrect in saying that Manziel had the highest score of any QB. Some QB from Cornell did better. Here is an article with the scores of most of the notable QBs:

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Johnny Manziel reportedly scored a 32 on the Wonderlic test at February's NFL scouting combine, potentially boosting his stock among teams considering selecting the former Texas A&M quarterback and Heisman Trophy winner in the first round.

NFL Network's Albert Breer tweeted out the scores of some top quarterback prospects, reporting that Manziel scored a 32, while Central Florida's Blake Bortles scored a 28 and Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater scored a 20. Cornell's Jeff Mathews had the highest score among quarterbacks with a 40. Breer did not report on the scores of any other quarterbacks available in May's draft.

The Wonderlic is a 50-question test administered to all combine participants that measures cognitive ability. The time limit is 12 minutes. A score of 20 is indicative of "average" intelligence and roughly equivalent to an IQ of 100. Former Bengals punter Pat McInally, who attended Harvard, is the only prospect known to have scored a perfect 50 on the test.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, among the 31 projected 2014 starting quarterbacks who have a reported Wonderlic score, the average is 29.4. The Chiefs' Alex Smith has the highest (40). The Colts' Andrew Luck and 49ers' Colin Kaepernick share the highest score (37) of quarterbacks drafted in the past three seasons.

Manziel is ranked No. 18 overall in ESPN Scouts Inc.'s list of top 32 prospects. Both ESPN's Todd McShay and Mel Kiper have the Minnesota Vikings picking him eighth overall in their latest mock drafts.

Link

Based on this I'd take a late round flier on Matthews. He might be a good development prospect.

Meh. Wonderlic means literally nothing in the NFL. The results don't transfer to any NFL position.

I can see your point. I can also see that it is very telling in Bridgewater's case, not only did he perform poorly at his Pro Day, but he also scored at just average ( I would say below average) on this test. I want the guy behind center to have above average intelligence and to be able to mentally process things rapidly.

Meh... just saying.

20 aint that bad. You just dont want a moron at QB. Teddy is football smart and he is not a moron.

I don't think it says anything. The wonderlic is absolutely useless information.

This is a long read, but he's a 40 page paper about it: http://www.psychology.uga.edu/people/bios/faculty/HoffmanDoc/Lyons,%20Hoffman,%20&%20Mischel%20(in%20press).pdf

For whatever reason (probably the comma in the url), you can't click on the link, but if you do copy everything from the http to the .pdf and paste it into the address bar it'll work

Abstract:
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the efficiency and equity of general mental ability (GMA) in a nontraditional employment setting—professional football. The National Football League (NFL) uses a measure of GMA, the Wonderlic Personnel Test, to evaluate potential draftees in an assessment-style environment. A total of 762 NFL players, represented from three draft classes, were included in our sample. In terms of efficiency, results indicated that GMA was unrelated to (a) future NFL performance, (b) selection decisions during the NFL Draft, and (c) the number of games started in the NFL. In regards to equity, differential prediction analyses by race suggested only the existence of intercept bias. The implications of these findings to the NFL and the selection literature are further discussed.

Also the Wonderlic is not meant to test quick decisions. The test was meant to test general intelligence and not fluid or crystallized intelligence is not tested. Crystallized intelligence is meant to rely on prior experiences or skills, while fluid intelligence is meant to be able to identify patterns and solve them.

I hate to go so nerdy on you, but I just want people to realize how useless the Wonderlic is.

IIRC there is an inverse correlation between score and success as a defensive back.

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I know most, including me, don't really care about the Wonderlic test. But Manziel got the highest score of all the QBs at the combine this year.

The 'incredibly smart' QB I've heard so much about (Bridgewater) scored a 20.

I am the one who has said he was incredibly smart, but you forgot to mention that I said, "football smart." And I am no different than any coach who has been around him.

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I know most, including me, don't really care about the Wonderlic test. But Manziel got the highest score of all the QBs at the combine this year.

The 'incredibly smart' QB I've heard so much about (Bridgewater) scored a 20.

Blaine Gabbert scored higher than Andrew Luck.

Gabbert is therefore smarter right?

Just going on memory...Marino scored like a 13 or something.

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Just going on memory...Marino scored like a 13 or something.

He went to Pitt, probably head of his class.

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Just going on memory...Marino scored like a 13 or something.

He went to Pitt, probably head of his class.

LOL ... he shoots ... and scores!

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20 aint that bad. You just dont want a moron at QB. Teddy is football smart and he is not a moron.

It would be tied for worst in the NFL among starting QB's (Jake Locker).

Since wonderlic scores are supposed to be confidential and because they get leaked every single year.. I'm surprised more guys don't opt out of taking it. I mean if you can opt out of throwing, running the 40, benching... why can't you opt out of this test?

Good call... especially when you have people who work for NFLN reporting the numbers.

The difference is the player stages a pro day or gives a private workout.

I think opting out would be about the same as scoring a 12.

I don't think this has been posted yet..

sorry if I missed it

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Manziel coming to visit the Browns this weekend.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Did the Browns save their best for last?

After conducting private workouts with top quarterbacks such as Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr over the past few weeks, they'll put Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel through the paces this weekend, a source confirmed for cleveland.

ESPN's Adam Caplan first reported that the workout is this weekend. Browns coach Mike Pettine revealed at the NFL Annual Meeting last month that the Browns would privately work out Manziel and all of the top quarterbacks in the draft.

"(He's a) gifted playmaker,'' Pettine said at the meetings. "The play starts when he makes the first guy miss. That's exciting to watch, but to transition to the NFL, he'll have to be able to play in structure, his fifth-step, his foot hits the ground that he can execute a throw. I don't think there's any reason to think that wouldn't happen and I think he's capable of doing it, but when you have that ability to improvise like that, that's what makes him special and maybe separates him from other guys.''

The Browns have identified quarterback as a high priority and have devoted plenty of time and resources to finding the one that fits them best. Will it be the scrambling, playmaking Manziel? Will he be available when they're on the clock with the No. 4 overall pick? If he slides, will they trade up from No. 26 to grab him?

In addition, they'll host Carr and others for pre-draft visits next week.

"I (like) what I've seen of (Manziel) on (ESPN's) SportsCenter,'' Shanahan told 92.3 The Fan's Bull and Fox in February. "I haven't sat and studied him, but who wouldn't like him? He's fun to watch, he makes plays, and he's as much of a playmaker as I've seen on SportsCenter as anybody.''

Shanahan hasn't been deterred by Manziel's 5-11 height. He cited the success of shorter quarterbacks Drew Brees (6-0) of the Saints and Russell Wilson (5-11) of the Seahawks, who have both won Super Bowls.

"Everybody wants the prototypical receiver, the prototypical quarterback, the prototypical tackle, but no matter what you say, there's no absolute,'' Shanahan said. "People have succeeded at every height and speed, everybody's done it. Russell just adds another guy to prove those people who speak in absolutes wrong just like Drew Brees has. You've got to look at what a guy is. You never say this guy can't do it because of this.''

But Cardinals coach Bruce Arians, the former Browns and Steelers offensive coordinator, expressed concerned about Manziel's size.

“Evaluation is a comparison business,” Arians said. “If you’re 6-5, 230, run a certain time, there’s like 35 guys I can compare you to that have been successful in this league. If you’re 5-11, there’s two, unless you go back to Fran Tarkenton: Doug Flutie and Russell Wilson. That’s not real good odds to me. You still might make it, but history says no.

Arians acknowledged that Johnny Football has that "it factor'' that Pettine is seeking on his Tour de Quarterback, but seemed skeptical that it will be enough.

“Just because you’re 5-11 doesn’t mean you can’t be successful,'' Arians said. "Johnny has magic. Playing against Flutie in college, that wasn’t fun. He had that magic, too. But it took him a long time to be successful in the National Football League.”

Arians also stressed that Manziel hasn't been chased or hit yet by NFL defenders.

“I don’t think Manziel’s ever going to give up on a play,” he said. “All these kids, they look like they’re going to take it to the wire. Now are they tough enough to get hit by these guys? None of them are fast enough to get away. They might think they are, but they ain’t getting away from these guys chasing them. It’s a different animal chasing them.”

The Browns' private workout with Manziel is especially important because they were one of two teams that didn't attend his Pro Day last month or conduct a formal interview with him at the NFL Scouting Combine in February.

But observers at the 45-minute were dazzled by the display, conducted by Massillon, Ohio native George Whitfield Jr.

"He made me say 'wow!''' former Super Bowl MVP quarterback Kurt Warner said on NFL Network during the spectacle at Texas A&M.

Manziel completed 61-of-64 attempts, including plenty of 50- and 60-yard throws on the run.

"You added in those throws on the run, and I don't think there's very many guys even at the National Football League level that can make those kind of throws,'' Warner told Manziel on the NFL Network set.

Warner also said during the showcase, "with what we've seen, he's been extremely impressive. Overall, I think he's been really, really solid.''

ESPN's Bill Polian observed that Manziel has "quick, nimble feet,'' but expressed concern that he threw with a lower arm angle, meaning he'll play to his 5-11 height.

Warner, who mostly praised Manziel, also expressed concerned about the arm angle.

NFL Network Mike Mayock observed that, "he can make every throw mechanically. His arm strength is on par with that of Bortles. He had that beautiful spontaneity on the run and he's confirmed many things. He's not opening up questions for me like Bridgewater did.''

Manziel, who threw in front of eight NFL head coaches including five with top 10 picks, threw with a helmet and shoulder pads on -- rare for a Pro Day workout.

"My main thing was, I'm not scared of anything,'' Manziel told NFL Network. "I don't play that way on the field, why come out here in a scripted workout and be scared of anything? It's the game we all love, let's throw the pigskin around and have some fun. Let's make it as challenging as we possibly could, let's get throws on the run, let's get stuff in the pocket to reset, let's go out and have fun more than anything.''

He said the deep balls on the move were his idea, "especially the two rollouts on the deep slot corners. They didn't know if I could get out there and make that throw like that, it's probably 50-something yards on the run and I felt extremely comfortable doing it. For me the main thing was, we were striving for perfection. One ball hit the ground, so a little disappointed in that, but at the same time, I wanted to make it as challenging as possible and show these guys I'm not scared of anything. I can make any of these throws out here on the field and hopefully compete with anybody.''

As for the necessarily pro skill of throwing from the pocket, he said, "Absolutely. I'm an extremely coachable kid, and I'm ready to learn. That's the biggest thing for me. ''

In regard to off-the-field concerns, he said, "I just want to let these guys know that my focus is football. This is my life. This is what I love to do. I've never been more dedicated and committed in my entire life. I'm so excited. I understand the challenge and the jump. There's no denying that. I want to be one of those (stars) one day. I know that the people that I have around me, and the people that I've talked to in those positions, whether it's Peyton Manning, whether it's Tom Brady, I see what it takes for them to be great. You have to put the time in. You have to be dedicated to it 100% that way.''

Whoops, Forgot the link

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/04/johnny_manziel_will_work_out_f.html

From PFT as an update to their post on him coming to Cleveland. Unless he's coming BACK to Cleveland later on, this seems odd, to say the least . . .

UPDATE 6:03 p.m. ET:

Technically speaking, Manziel won’t work out while he’s in Cleveland, as the initial report said. Teams can only work out prospects on their college campuses. So he might be visiting with the Browns, but won’t be breaking a sweat there, which he might never do, come to think of it.

They usually bring them in for a physical, take them to dinner and get to know them. After the physical and psych evaluation on the fly lol, they all fly back together and work him out on his campus.

Ohhh, totally let that part about "their college campuses" fly over my head.

Thanks for clarifying.

He can still be the other kind of smart. Who knows he might have taken his time cause his agent told him to relax don't rush just read the questions and answer them - He might have been 20 out of 20 for all we know and didn't rush through the test with intensity. This isn't the end all of end all IQ test. Most the real ones take an hour or two.

jmho

Yeah,, I'm not sure I have a handle on that either.

JC

There are some rumors (wild speculation) that the Niners might be thinking of trading Kaepernick for draft rights to Manziel. Its probably just posturing on the Niners part because of stalled contract talks with Kaepernick, but you never know.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/article...ault-report.htm

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/03/31/jim-harbaugh-has-an-intriguing-view-of-johnny-manziel/

Anyone want to trade 4, 26, and Mingo (to replace troubled Aldon Smith) for Kaepernick? (This is a trade I heard speculation on the radio of.) I'd do it if Kaepernick signed an extension first.

I think I'd rather keep the picks and see what Pettine can do with Mingo.

j/c
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/5135/draft-factoid-manziel-and-leading-fbs-in-qbr

Draft day looms ever closer. As it approaches, it seems appropriate to start your day with a tidbit or two each day on draftable guys -- with an eye toward those the Cleveland Browns might select. All information is courtesy of ESPN Stats & Information.

Johnny Manziel led college FBS quarterbacks in Total Quarterback Rating in 2012 and finished third in 2013. The significance? Every player who led the nation from 2008 through 2011 is an NFL starter, including Andrew Luck in Indianapolis and Russell Wilson in Seattle. Wilson also has that ever-elusive ring.

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Anyone want to trade 4, 26, and Mingo (to replace troubled Aldon Smith) for Kaepernick?

You want to trade 3 first round picks (2 plus Mingo) for Kap?

Uh. No.

I'd rather trade up for Carr than trade that haul for a guy still learning to play QB.

And I don't even want Carr...

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/04/cleveland_browns_no_time_to_ge.html
CLEVELAND. Ohio – The Browns are believed to be traveling this weekend to work out quarterback Johnny Manziel.

We assume they located him the new-fashioned way -- GPS -- and didn’t just follow the bright star over College Station, Magi-style.

Even that, though, wouldn’t make him worth the No. 4 pick in the draft.

Sorry, but I didn’t see it when this process began and still don’t see the wisdom in passing up prospective All-Pro talents to take a quarterback you hope: 1) grows, 2) is willing to make the plays he sees instead of the plays he wants to see on SportsCenter, and 3) truly is dedicated to putting aside the Johnny Football name (once he trademarks it, of course).

Manziel is electric. No acquisition other than a LeBron James return would light up this town like Las Vegas. Russell Wilson is proof you can win big in the NFL without being the size of Ben Roethlisberger and Joe Flacco.

All those arguments are impossible to refute. And also entirely besides the point.

Ray Farmer and Mike Pettine strike me as two guys who appreciate substance over style. Wilson has so much of the former, style never even comes up in the conversation. The opposite is true of Manziel.

The NFL game is significantly harder for smaller quarterbacks. Wilson’s success certainly isn’t the norm, and isn’t particularly instructive for quite a few reasons.

Wilson is fiercely dedicated to his craft. He’s already renowned in his dedication to the film room. He looks at everything as a chance to learn, even conversations with successful people outside of football.

(Here's a look at what the Seahawks saw when they first met with him)

Even if all that were equally true about Manziel, there would still be one stumbling block. Wilson was an undervalued third-round pick.

The question isn’t whether the Browns should take Manziel in the third round, or even the second. Those answers would be: yes and yes. Obviously. How about the 26th overall pick? Sure, why not?

They would’ve already procured a Top 5 talent. Manziel would be one of their remaining nine picks. His play-making ability at such a critical position would make it too difficult to pass him up.

You’d still have concerns no matter where you picked him, but not nearly as many as were outlined in NFL analyst Greg Cosell’s smart look at the questions GM’s should ask themselves before spending a high pick on Manziel.

The salient point is Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are exceptions. That's why they were chosen where they were in the draft.

Brees was the first pick in the second round of the 2001 draft, No. 32. Wilson was the 12th pick in the third round in the 2012 draft, No. 75.

Just because they proved they were undervalued doesn’t mean it’s smart to overvalue Manziel, or any other quarterback.

If Wilson were to go back into his draft class, he’s not getting picked ahead of Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III.

This is not a great quarterback draft class. And no amount of flash – I’d put conducting a Pro Day in shoulder pads in that category – is going to make Manziel look too elite to pass up.

I don’t think Farmer and Pettine are attempting to hide their intentions when they talk about building a complete team. That’s what Seattle has done after all. Monster defense. Strong running game. Complimentary quarterback.

Certainly that’s not easily accomplished. A great quarterback can instantly raise the franchise. They’re not arguing against that. They’re just being realistic. There are so few quarterbacks in the league capable of lifting all boats.

My guess is Farmer and Pettine know they’re here because previous regimes tried to make the draft fit what they needed instead of letting talent dictate it.

No way Manziel will be the highest-rated player on the board at No. 4. Maybe on Manziel’s board, but I doubt on the Browns'.

Maybe this weekend changes things. If so, I believe the Browns are talking themselves into something, and that’s never good.

That article is horrible..

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We assume they located him the new-fashioned way -- GPS -- and didn’t just follow the bright star over College Station, Magi-style.

Very poor taste.

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2) is willing to make the plays he sees instead of the plays he wants to see on SportsCenter

Really? Because as Manziel is standing there in the pocket for the 5 seconds he has, he obviously says to himself "Man I better run around a bit so I can get on Sportcenter!" Wow...

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The question isn’t whether the Browns should take Manziel in the third round, or even the second. Those answers would be: yes and yes. Obviously. How about the 26th overall pick? Sure, why not?

They would’ve already procured a Top 5 talent. Manziel would be one of their remaining nine picks. His play-making ability at such a critical position would make it too difficult to pass him up.

So he's a Top 5 talent, that this writer would definately take at 26.. But isn't a TOP 5 TALENT.. that he'd take at 4? Ok?

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If Wilson were to go back into his draft class, he’s not getting picked ahead of Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III.

He's also not getting picked in the 3rd round again...

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This is not a great quarterback draft class.

It's one of the better ones. Just because a class has an Andrew Luck at the top of it doesn't make the ENTIRE CLASS better...

All the comparisons to Russell Wilson are great actually. I firmly believe Manziel can come into the league and run the type of offense Wilson is. Running game based, lots of play actions, with rollouts incorporated into it. He would be great in that role until he became more accustomed to the NFL...

Picture this. Playaction bootleg to the right, Hawkins running a short cross in front of Johnny, Jordan Cameron running a post towards the first down marker, and Gordon running deep down the sideline... Manziel has three throwing options, and his legs..

You don't think that play can work with JF in the NFL? I do.

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That article is horrible..

Agreed. Bud Shaw is an idiot.

He may be fairly intelligent, but his football posts are so far off that it amazes me he still has a job.

I wish the PD would fire a jerk like that and bring in someone who actually knows the game.

I have been reading a lot of his stuff, and it seems his underlying motive, is to bad mouth the team at any chance. No impartiality, just doom and gloom syndrome perpetuated by a mediocre writer.

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I have been reading a lot of his stuff, and it seems his underlying motive, is to bad mouth the team at any chance. No impartiality, just doom and gloom syndrome perpetuated by a mediocre writer.

That will sell papers. When a team is down, it's not popular to stand up FOR them. It will sell more papers if you beat on them

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I have been reading a lot of his stuff, and it seems his underlying motive, is to bad mouth the team at any chance. No impartiality, just doom and gloom syndrome perpetuated by a mediocre writer.

Considering our teams record for several years, maybe he's just being honest. While many seem to "talk up" the team every off season, his take ends up being far more accurate than the average fans.

Let's take this year for example. We have a rookie HC. None of us have seen the draft yet and have no idea how any of those players will turn out in the NFL. People "like what he says" but we have nothing more than that to gauge our opinions on.

Yet people are already finding hope to believe things will be better. Based on what exactly? You may not like what he has to say, but it seems his "doom and gloom" predictions are far more accurate than many fans. Whether we like it or not.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...leveland-browns
The Cleveland Browns continue to do their homework on Johnny Manziel.

With three weeks until the draft, the team held a private workout for the former Texas A&M quarterback Saturday morning in College Station, according to NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport. NFL Media senior analyst Gil Brandt reported about the session earlier this week.
Johnny Chronicles

» Manziel Zone: Who loves him, who hates him?
» Gruden compares Manziel to ol' gunslinger Favre
» Brandt: Manziel still No. 1 on top 50 prospects list

Video:
» Manziel's pro comparison | First Draft
» Manziel's high school highlights
» From Johnny Football to 'Johnny Legend'

Photos:
» Manziel's path to draft | Celebrates | Works out

Manziel also will visit the Browns' facilities next week, according to Brandt.

Manziel's workout Saturday could go a long way toward determining how the Browns play their No. 4 overall draft pick. Quarterback is one of the team's obvious needs, but some believe Cleveland could opt to fill another position at No. 4 and grab a quarterback such as Fresno State's Derek Carr with their No. 26 pick.

NFL Media analyst Bucky Brooks believes the Browns' best-case scenario with the fourth pick would give them a choice among the top-three quarterbacks in the draft -- Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater or Blake Bortles -- and wide receiver Sammy Watkins. Brooks ultimately believes GM Ray Farmer will opt for Watkins.

"Building a team doesn't always start with the quarterback," Brooks said. "Farmer can set up the franchise for success by first building up the supporting cast around the eventual signal-caller, and then identifying the right fit at quarterback in the near future. This is the blueprint the Seattle Seahawks used to capture the championship a season ago. It's one Farmer could copy to reverse the Browns' fortunes."

In addition to the "Big Three" quarterbacks and Carr, the Browns have also had visits with quarterbacks expected to be second- or third-day picks. Included in this group are Eastern Illinois' Jimmy Garoppolo, Alabama's AJ McCarron, Georgia's Aaron Murray and Ball State's Keith Wenning.

Follow College Football 24/7 on Twitter @NFL_CFB.

Hope springs eternal in Cleveland Pit.

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Hope springs eternal in Cleveland Pit.

I don't know about eternal, it's more perennial. Depending upon the individual it dies sometime from Oct to Dec and comes back to life around the draft.

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Hope springs eternal in Cleveland Pit.

I don't know about eternal, it's more perennial. Depending upon the individual it dies sometime from Oct to Dec and comes back to life around the draft.

Truer words were never typed.

Just started watching this: "Johnny Manziel - Grudens QB Camp."

On youtube/link:

https://www.youtube.com/v/EIrLmgy1yR0

Thanks for posting that. Just watched it. Football wise I really like this guy. I can't tell you how infuriating it is to have a play locked down from a defensive perspective...only to watch Elway or Roethlisberger extend it. See the backside breakdown and see a TD happen live in person way before you realize it watching TV. And think...I hate this guy. Why can't he be playing for us!!! Manziel's got this. And I hate watching guys like that shred my team.

But seeing this makes me want him even more. He gets it. He's a smart kid. The Wonderlic is something. But you can tell talking to him that he's coachable. He likes the mental aspect of the game. And I think Hoyer would be great for him.

And at the end of the day we need someone here that can flip this script.

Take the loser Browns from 99 to present...and turn them into a bunch of winners. This guy just might be able to do that. We have a half dozen Pro Bowl guys. We have some talent in the Front 7 that Pettine might be able to do something with a la Buffalo.

I take Manziel at 4 and don't look back.

And I'm putting a call in to St. Louis and seeing what that #2 overall slot would cost me. Because I don't want to give Jacksonville the option. If it's #26. Done deal and I draft him at 2.

We need a culture change here in Brownstown. It's going to take someone special to eliminate the Factory of Sadness outlook here.

This guy could be it.

Take him.

And start playing some entertaining winning football.

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Just started watching this: "Johnny Manziel - Grudens QB Camp."

On youtube/link:

https://www.youtube.com/v/EIrLmgy1yR0

Very interesting, he touched on just about all the known concerns. Something Gruden belabored that had me thinking was, he wanted Manziel to check down more. It's not really something I think about, but Gruden seems to think Manziel was trying to go down field too much. That is really interesting and something I would have loved to known before I watched the games.

Man, he looks small standing at that board compared to Andrew Luck.

haha I love that he admits when he throws greedy interceptions, because it's so true.

Real hard not to like the kids abilities. A lot of his problems on the field are just that, getting too greedy and impatient.

Risk v. Reward

Manziel could be more of a Franchise QB possibility than Luck, with all the smoke the Browns are throwing at Carr, they may grab Manziel if he is there at 4.

If we take a QB at four it has to be Manziel. I just don't see the same ceiling in any of the other guys. No one can change what it means to "Play Like a Brown" faster than Manziel.

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If we take a QB at four it has to be Manziel. I just don't see the same ceiling in any of the other guys. No one can change what it means to "Play Like a Brown" faster than Manziel.

That's my first choice. I still think he goes to Houston.

That's who I would pick if I were them. But they seem to really be struggling with the choice. I wouldn't be surprised if they traded down with Jacksonville.

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That's who I would pick if I were them. But they seem to really be struggling with the choice. I wouldn't be surprised if they traded down with Jacksonville.

I really think Manziel goes 1st to the Texans and Carr goes #3 to the Jaguars, but I don't feel confident about who will pick who at #2.

I think it goes Clowney, Robinson, Mack. I just don't know what teams will be picking who.

Sometimes I truly believe that the draft can be over analyzed especially by the media. That is understandable because they have to say something and they have a lot of time space to fill.

After the college season ends the most important part of the evaluation process is to try and determine what makes these young guys tick? How bad does he want it?

The combine provides the physicals and the measurables. The works outs are more geared to find out "if" the guy fits into the coaches vision of how they will play within the team schemes.

The rest of the noise is all media overkill.

Personally I have zeroed in on all the quarterback prospects since the season ended last year knowing the Browns would be in the QB market.

Regarding Manziel I have watched almost every game and I see no reason for him to be considered a top ten guy. In fact, I do not see him carrying a first round grade. Bortles in my opinion carries a late first round grade. Carr third round prospect at best.

Garopollo has good potential because he has the type of skills NFL coaches covet. However, draft wise his grade is second round.

The only quarterback in this draft worthy of a top ten selection is
Teddy Bridgewater period end of sentence. Really I could care less what anyone says. I have taken the time to study these guys and I know what I see.

If the Browns like Bridgewater they should take him at four. Do not play games and think they can get him later. This draft has plenty of players who carry first round grades and with pick 26 they get a good player where BPA intersects need. Be that at receiver ( this draft is loaded), OT, SS, CB, ILB.

I like Hoyer. He should get his chance. He may seize it and not let go. However, the Browns have to address quarterback in this draft. Bridgewater is the best quarterback in this draft and the Browns should take him if they can. Then move forward. If he is gone go BPA hopefully Watkins will be there. If Bridgewater and Watkins are gone then take the best player on the board. That maybe Mack or Robinson. Don't complicate things. The fourth pick in this draft has to be an impact player.

Johnny Manziel would be a reach of the worst kind. The Browns would taking a huge risk and passing on safer better talent.

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Manziel could be more of a Franchise QB possibility than Luck,

10... 9... 8... Grabbing my hard hat.. 7... 6... 5... Climbing under my desk 4... 3... waiting for the inevitable. 2... 1....

I have to agree with him lol. His ceiling is just off the charts. He just doesnt get the credit for being as good of a passer as he is. He is the 2nd best passer in this class behind carr. He played in the toughest disivion. He is also the most frustrating player for defenses that I have ever seen. You see this kid break defenses not just physically but also mentally and emotionally.

Manziel in the shannahan offense is just scary to think about. Those wide runs are designed to wear down and frustrate defenses and now they will find chasing Johny is even more frustrating. I may not be watching the Browns this fall but I will be watching Manziel.

so, I like Manziel a well... but are you an Aggie or somethin'? I haven't heard you this excited about a QB since, well, Ryan Tannehill lol.

And aren't you real big on Mike Evans this year?

hmm...

Talent is talent. I had Tannehill above RG3 because I thought RG3 was oblivious to a pass rush. He would stand in there and take a hit no matter what, and as much as we all admire that quality, you just cant do that. I saw Tannheill as someone that could be effective from day 1, should show improvement in year 2 and break out in year 3. I think the big step forward comes this year or it may not come at all. The choke at the end of the season was alarming. BTW would u rather have tannehill and Alshon Jeffery who i was pimping or Trich and weeden lol.

Johny Football is just fun to watch and he has all the tools minus 2 more inches in height. I like him for the Browns, they need that spark he brings. Hell gordon had 1600 yards last year and we were just deflated.

Evans was my #1 behind Clowney. Size, power, deceptive speed, best hands in football, and he makes the big plays when needed and at the Manziel proday he ran fantastic routes. Admitedly it was against air but being physical isnt a problem for him.

Nothing at all to do with what they have on their helmet just the fact that A&M are putting out some really good Offensive talent. Hell they will likely have 3 players from offense go top 10.

I'm on board w/ Manzel. He does have the highest ceiling.
He has the three I's Gruden pointed out,
Improvise
Intangible
Individual Determination ( effort)

The good news, so does Hoyer in my mind. We can run a similar system for both guys so not much scheme change- just in case.

If I guaranteed you all but one lotto number right, would you be willing to bet $100 at the chance to win the lotto?

That's what I feel like Manziel is like. If he hits, it's going to be really, really, really good. But if not, you'll feel like you just flushed $100 dollars down the toilet.

The only handicap that I see in Manziel's game is his durability. The rest is fixable and the Browns/Shannahan offense is tailored to have a more mobile QB back there. Cut the field in half and let Manziel do what he does best.

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Just started watching this: "Johnny Manziel - Grudens QB Camp."

On youtube/link:

https://www.youtube.com/v/EIrLmgy1yR0

"You just look in everybodys face and they look lost, they look like sheep just wandering around. We needed to be brought back together."

interesting

Johnny Salvation?

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If I guaranteed you all but one lotto number right, would you be willing to bet $100 at the chance to win the lotto?

That's what I feel like Manziel is like. If he hits, it's going to be really, really, really good.
The only handicap that I see in Manziel's game is his durability.

The rams hit the jackpot when they found Kurt Warner. That's what I'd like to find, but there just aren't any more of him out there.
Manziel has the most upside in this draft. To me, he has the potential to be Peyton Manning, in (Somebody's) body. Somebody with a glass jaw.

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Manziel has the most upside in this draft. To me, he has the potential to be Peyton Manning, in (Somebody's) body. Somebody with a glass jaw.

Curious why you would say Manziel has a glass jaw. The guy hasn't missed a snap for health reasons in 2 years playing against SEC defenses...

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Just started watching this: "Johnny Manziel - Grudens QB Camp."

On youtube/link:

https://www.youtube.com/v/EIrLmgy1yR0

"You just look in everybodys face and they look lost, they look like sheep just wandering around. We needed to be brought back together."

interesting

Nice video. I'm not saying Manziel is my number one choice, but the thing I like most about him is his competitive fire. He just seems like a guy that won't lose. If he's down a ton to Duke in a bowl game, he's there on the sidelines firing everyone up and out on the field doing everything it takes to win. Those are the guys with heart ... and I want guys like that playing for me.

To everyone who replied to the Manziel video, yea, I liked the way he came across a lot too. All the highlights (and lowlights) were cool to watch. I liked his attitude too. Now I won't feel as bad if we pick him in the draft....

Blake Bortles also came came across well in his episode with Gruden.

the most impressive thing about Manziel with Gruden was throwing the ball with no laces. No adjustment, he just snatched the ball and threw it with accuracy and velocity and he can really spin it. I think he is the perfect QB for Cleveland.

This is not a reply to you directly. It is about Manziel.

When I read or hear that Manziel has the "it" factor first I question the author then I want to know what "it" is and how will it help the Browns?

Manziel is a polarizing player but when you remove the hype and emotion and judge him as purely a football player and project him into the NFL.

There is no way he is worthy of being drafted in the first round of this draft. That does not mean he is a bad player. Nor does it mean he can not be successful in the NFL. Russell Wilson was a third round player and he won a Super Bowl.

If you judge Manziel based upon the measurables, intangibles, production, game film, and any other factors you plug in. You have a two player who is under six feet tall. You have plenty of film showing questionable decisions with the ball. A guy who tucked the ball and ran way to often. A player who often did not read the defense in front him. Off field questions legit or not? None of it adds up to a player worthy of being taken in the first round let alone with the fourth pick.

He won in grand fashion. He was exciting. "He will add excitement to the franchise". I don't care. I want a guy who will play sixteen games a year and win games when you need him most. A player who can lead a franchise and not be headline distraction.

Reaching for Manziel in the first round of this draft would not be a smart move. There are too many good players that will be available.

If he was there in the second maybe if Bridgewater, Bortles, and Garopollo were gone. That is where I rank Manziel behind the guys just mentioned.

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If you judge Manziel based upon the measurables, intangibles, production, game film, and any other factors you plug in. You have a two player who is under six feet tall. You have plenty of film showing questionable decisions with the ball. A guy who tucked the ball and ran way to often. A player who often did not read the defense in front him. Off field questions legit or not? None of it adds up to a player worthy of being taken in the first round let alone with the fourth pick.

"it" is an intangible that you can't take out and put back in when it suits you.. Bernie Kosar had "it", his "it" was his intelligence and leadership... Brett Favre had "it", his "it" was his toughness and willingness to take chances... Fran Tarkenton had "it", his "it" was his ability to escape and make plays out of nothing...

All 3 of those guys had what we would call today, serious red flags . For Bernie it was his lack of athleticism, for Favre it would have been his gunslinging recklessness with the ball, and for Tarkenton it would have been his size... yet each one was able to overcome them because of their specific "it"

So my answer is that "it" isn't just one thing.. "it" is whatever a player has that allows them to overcome their other limitations.

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Manziel is a polarizing player

To whom?

Aside from being the most athletic QB in the draft and playing the toughest competition while having one of the worst defenses and having to put up 40+ every game, he will put fannies in the seats, draw national attention and put numbers on the board.

I agree about JM being athletic, having the it factor, and is smart. I also think he will have to change his game alot in tle nfl. If he tries to run around in the nfl like he did in college he will get seriously hurt. The players he will play against in this league are bigger, faster and stronger than any he ever faced before. I don't know If he is big enough and strong enough to take the pounding especially in our division.JMHO.

What does our division have to do with anything? Did they move us to the NFC West?

Our division has very physical defenses whom we have to play 6 times. Granted other d's are tough also, seattle and sf come to mind but I think Baltimore and Pitts. are as tough as anyone.

Maziel played against some of the top defenses in college football and put up points at will (Alabama 49-42). His catch me if you can style will drive NFL defenses nuts and put points on the board. All he needs is a little schooling on throwing the ball away and a crash course on sliding. And don't forget, as each season passes this league is more and more a "ref protect the QB league."

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If you judge Manziel based upon the measurables, intangibles, production, game film, and any other factors you plug in. You have a two player who is under six feet tall. You have plenty of film showing questionable decisions with the ball. A guy who tucked the ball and ran way to often. A player who often did not read the defense in front him. Off field questions legit or not? None of it adds up to a player worthy of being taken in the first round let alone with the fourth pick.

First you say all of that and then you say you MIGHT take him in the 2nd round?

Comments like that make zero sense.

If a team thinks like what you said they need to take him OFF their board and say we will not draft Manziel EVER. His talent breakdown doesn't get better the further down the draft we go. This isn't like sitting with some pretty good looking chick at the local bar who looks better and better with each passing shot.

"First you say all of that and then you say you MIGHT take him in the 2nd round?"
========================================================

The Browns are in need at the quarterback position. I rank Manziel as the fourth best prospect. If the other three are off the board I would consider him. He would be worth the risk in the second round. He is not worth the risk in the first.

Manziel has skills. He has won big games under pressure. I said it is not like he is a bad player or he can not be successful. He just is not worth a first round pick with the other players available in this draft.

I don't really see how that does not make sense. There are plenty of people that want the Browns to take him with the fourth pick in the draft. That is what does not make sense.

The draft is about getting value with the pick. Not reaching for need over talent at another position.

Do you see all the back and forth opinions and debating that is going on over JM. That would indicate to me that he has some serious questions about his abilities to be successful in this league. I'm not saying he won't become a good qb but right now there are some questions. The best college defenses are not as good as the ones in the NFL.

The same could be said for any QB in this draft concerning opinions. But I would say people trying to indicate Manziel will be as successful and not being susceptible to injury if he continues to scramble like he has been in the NCAA are simply buying into hype and emotion. RG3 has shown this simply isn't the case.

You are right. Only the best from the NCAA over the past decade are playing in the NFL. Not the class of 2014.

Will the Texans draft Johnny Manziel No. 1 overall and how will that impact what the Cleveland Browns do at No. 4?: Hey Mary Kay!

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/04/what_will_the_texans_do_at_no.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
on April 26, 2014 at 2:06 PM, updated April 26, 2014 at 2:19 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Hey Mary Kay!

Hey Mary Kay: Will the Texans take Johnny Manziel at No. 1 and how will that impact what the Browns do at No. 4?

-- Kevin Mulach, Rocky River, Ohio

Hey Kevin: The Texans are poised to draft either South Carolina pass-rusher Jadeveon Clowney or Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel, according to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. But there's now plenty of talk that the Falcons will trade up from No. 6 to No. 1 to draft Clowney. If Clowney, Manziel, and Sammy Watkins are all gone, the Browns will have their choice of quarterback Blake Bortles, pass-rusher Khalil Mack and offensive tackle Greg Robinson. They could also tab quarterback Derek Carr in that scenario, although many analysts believe he's a reach at No. 4. If Manziel is there at No. 4, they will have a big and exciting decision to make. There's a large part of me that thinks they should do it if he's there.

Hey, Mary Kay: What are your thoughts on the possibility of the Browns taking Sammy Watkins at No. 4 and then finding a way to grab Derek Carr before the Cardinals draft at No. 20? IMO Watkins makes any quarterback we field better. Teaming Watkins across from Josh Gordon would be a legitimate Championship team of receivers.

- John Mann, Parma Hts, Ohio

Hey John: I think it's a strategy the Browns will strongly consider. The only problem is that some teams have Carr rated very highly and he might not make it out of the teens. If the Browns really like Carr, they might have to spring for him at No. 4. The Raiders like him at No. 5, and the Vikings need a QB at No. 8.

Hey, Mary Kay: Hi, I'm Noah, a 12 year old, diehard Browns fan. According to multiple sources, the Cleveland Browns are in love with Derek Carr. I think he would be a reach at No. 4 overall. Do you think they would trade back a couple spots to acquire additional picks? Personally, I would rather see them pick a playmaker like Sammy Watkins at No. 4. This would give the Browns a deadly passing attack that already includes Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron.

- Noah C, Cleveland, Ohio

Hey Noah: At the rate you're going, you'll be running the Browns someday! Yes, I like the idea of the Browns taking Watkins at No. 4 and pairing him with Josh Gordon. The Browns need multiple offensive weapons, and also an insurance policy in the event Gordon has another misstep. Watkins and Gordon would be virtually unstoppable. That would give them a chance to draft Carr or another quarterback at No. 26, or earlier in the first round if they trade back up. They've looked at dozens, including Eastern Illinois' Jimmy Garoppolo and Pitt's Tom Savage, so they have plenty of options.

Hey Mary Kay: Ask yourself, honestly, what have Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, or Mitchell Schwartz done to make the Browns winners? Thomas and Mack are certainly great, but I think it's clear that having a great offensive line has little correlation to team success. They need the best QB on their board, or the best WR, or the best LB. If they draft Jake Matthews at four we can expect another 7-10 years of cruddy football because it will be obvious Ray Farmer won't have what it takes, and thus ruined this most critical draft. That all being said, could you please tell Farmer NOT to draft an OT at #4 overall?!

- Kyle Chormanski, Augusta, Ga.

Hey Kyle: Yes, I will tell him. We have him Monday at 11:30 a.m. for a pre-draft press conference, and I will be sure to pass it along. I have to agree with you. I'd rather see them take a quarterback at No. 4 than a left tackle, but I wouldn't be surprised if they draft Auburn's Greg Robinson. Early on in the draft process, he was high on their list and a realistic possibility.

Hey, Mary Kay: What are your thoughts on taking a QB with the No. 35 pick versus the No. 26? If Texans take a QB with the No. 1 it would seem pretty safe on waiting till the 35.

- Jeffrey Calhoun, San Antonio, Texas

Hey Jeffrey: A quarterback's chances of success decline sharply after the first round, but I don't think there's all that much difference this year in taking a quarterback at No. 26 vs. taking one at No. 35. All of the teams picking after the Browns' No. 26 are set at quarterback for the foreseeable future: New Orleans (Drew Brees), Carolina (Cam Newton), New England (Tom Brady), San Francisco (Colin Kaepernick), Denver (Peyton Manning) and Seattle (Russell Wilson). The only other team needing a quarterback before the Browns pick again at 35 is Houston at No. 33.

Hey, Mary Kay: I'm hearing now that there's a good chance the Browns will draft an offensive lineman with their first pick (No. 4). Everyone agrees that we need to get an impact player with that pick (which isn't an OT). Do you see any of our current players stepping up to start, any 'diamonds in the rough' (Pinkston, Faulk, Fragel)?

- Bob Ruple, Newbury, Ohio

Hey Bob: I do think there's a chance the Browns will draft an offensive linemen with the fourth pick such as Auburn tackle Greg Robinson, but I'd rather see them draft a quarterback, Sammy Watkins or a pass-rusher such as Jadeveon Clowney or Khalil Mack there. I think they can find good offensive linemen in the third and fourth rounds.

Hey, Mary Kay: Why don't the Browns draft (Oklahoma State cornerback) Justin Gilbert at No. 4? He is a top 10 pick, the Browns need a corner, plus he returns kicks.Look at the number of games blown in fourth quarter because the defense could not hold a lead. New England And Jacksonville are examples.

- Joe Smith, Louisville, Ohio

Hey Joe: I agree that the Browns need a shutdown cornerback out of this draft, but I think No. 4 is a little too high Gilbert. He'd be a great choice at No. 26 if he lasts that long, but some experts have him going in the top 15. However, the Browns surrendered 29 TD passes last season, which was tied for seventh-most in the NFL, and they collapsed at the end of halves and games because of coverage issues. More pressure will help, but they do need another good corner.

Hey Mary Kay: Do you think the Browns will really try to trade for Washington's backup quarterback Kirk Cousins during draft weekend?

-- Scott W., Palm Desert, Cal.

Hey Scott: I think there's a chance it will at least come up. It all depends on who the Browns draft at quarterback and what that might mean for Brian Hoyer. Cousins knows Kyle Shanahan's West Coast system and Shanahan likes him. Besides, the Redskins can afford to part with him now that they have Colt McCoy.

(end)

I know Mary Kay is not a favorite here, but as far as the Browns' reporters from the PD go, I still like her over Bud Shaw... I just don't care for his whole writing style at all.

So Bridgewater is now not even an option? Wow!

The way the dolts are grading Teddy he might get the Rogers treatment. I would not be surprised if we went Watkins/Mack/Robinson at 4 and still be able to trade up to early 20s to take Teddy. The same thing that dropped other guys like Arod, Brees,etc is happening to him. He isn't the biggest guy and has a funny release...lol...there is a reason these dopes miss all the time. Watch a guy like Carr who looks the part but has bust written all over him go ahead of Teddy. I like Bortles, but the dolts biggest compliment of him is his "size" lol.

I know we won't draft him at 4, but I do think he is the one out of the big 3 that will fall, and maybe (for the love of all that is holy) the Browns get lucky and get one of the so called elite guys at 4 and still wind up with Teddy......one can dream.

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I know Mary Kay is not a favorite here, but as far as the Browns' reporters from the PD go, I still like her over Bud Shaw... I just don't care for his whole writing style at all.

Shaw is not a reporter. He's a columnist, like Terry Pluto.

He doesn't follow the Browns daily like MKC does. Her job is to build relationships with "sources", get as much accurate info as she can to "share" (share= tweet), and god forbid, offer her analysis on said information. Shaw writes broadly on all things sports, not just the Browns. He provides his opinion, which is a poor attempt at trying to be funny while pretending to add any significant value of information-- kinda like me.

Overall, I think they both stink in their own right.

I got a bad feeling that we are going to blow it again and take yet another receiver and miss out on our QB.

I am praying I am wrong.

I guess it is just classical conditioning.

I've given up on these guys taking one at 4. I bet we draft Robinson lot of Smoke there. I guess I am praying that in spite of themselves the get the franchise QB anyway. What scares me the most is we waste a high second on the Grapapolo kid or Carr at 26. If we aren't going Teddy, JFM, or Bortles I would just assume they didn't draft one until round 5 or later.

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I got a bad feeling that we are going to blow it again and take yet another receiver and miss out on our QB.

I am praying I am wrong.

I guess it is just classical conditioning.

I have a bad feeling too, but I don't think Watkins is on our radar.

If you are the Browns and don't like these QB's at the top, what do you do? You went OLB last year, you have a ton of money already dumped into the OL, and adding Watkins would be more luxury than necessity...

That doesn't really leave anybody, and if you try and reach for Justin Gilbert, that also would be dumb.

They'll trade down. SMH. Draft pick guy will be thrilled though, good for him.

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They'll trade down. SMH. Draft pick guy will be thrilled though, good for him.

It's funny. I think if they do any trading, it may be to trade up from #26 if they don't take a QB at #4.

A part of me thinks the FO isn't completely sold on Gordon because of his past issues...which I understand, one more mishap and he's done for one year. So you mitigate your risk with by drafting another #1WR prospect and hope for the best case situation that you have a Roddy White/ Julio Jones or a Marvin Harrison/ Reggie Wayne combo-- but yes, they also had a QB.

If they take someone like Watkins, don't be surprised if they jump back in to grab a QB later. #20 with Arizona may be place where a QB could be taken, but the way the trades have been since the new CBA, there has been much more activity. As early as the #3 pick last year....which leads me to say:

If the Browns like one of the QBs enough that they feel could be a game changer, then just go ahead and draft him. Don't be cute, no matter if people think it's the proverbial "reach". Get the guy you want, don't look back, then focus on the next draft pick.

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I got a bad feeling that we are going to blow it again and take yet another receiver and miss out on our QB.

I am praying I am wrong.

I guess it is just classical conditioning.

I am with you on this one. With as much talent in the top 10, excluding Watkins, and with as many quality receivers in this draft, I would be very disappointed. QB is still puzzling. It is more me not able to decide, but this is not last year. There is a ton a of talent in the top 10: Clowny, Mathews, Robinson, Lewan, Mack, Barr, Bridgewater, Manziel, Tuitt, and Nix. Anyone of these guys helps.

I keep hearing trading back up....NO SIR. This draft is loaded best we seen in four or five years. You can't afford to give up picks. Farmer can fix a lot of areas. It is unusual the QB's are the weaker first round choice this year. Not as terrible as last year but lacking compared to two years ago. These QB's have potential we simple can't depend on any right out of the gate. With good coaching and patience there is maybe five starters and several backups.

Looking at the two best QB's it certainly would be nice getting one of those 3 OT's. Based on history with small QB's Manziel and Bridgewater almost have to drop to 26. Then again history doesn't always repeat itself.

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I've given up on these guys taking one at 4. I bet we draft Robinson lot of Smoke there. I guess I am praying that in spite of themselves the get the franchise QB anyway. What scares me the most is we waste a high second on the Grapapolo kid or Carr at 26. If we aren't going Teddy, JFM, or Bortles I would just assume they didn't draft one until round 5 or later.

I will be so furious if we draft an OT at 4 ......

We need a QB, and we need playmakers. We need difference makers, who flip the field for this team. That is not a RT on an OL that was already one of the better in the NFL last year. I would say that Farmer would not be off to a good start if we take a RT at 4.

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I've given up on these guys taking one at 4. I bet we draft Robinson lot of Smoke there. I guess I am praying that in spite of themselves the get the franchise QB anyway. What scares me the most is we waste a high second on the Grapapolo kid or Carr at 26. If we aren't going Teddy, JFM, or Bortles I would just assume they didn't draft one until round 5 or later.

I will be so furious if we draft an OT at 4 ......

We need a QB, and we need playmakers. We need difference makers, who flip the field for this team. That is not a RT on an OL that was already one of the better in the NFL last year. I would say that Farmer would not be off to a good start if we take a RT at 4.

Ditto that. Dumb move.

If we're gonna wait on a QB then Watkins has to be the pick.

WEAPONS people.

This new group has brought in almost every potential QB pick. They've gone there to work them out then bring them here for meetings. It certainly appears to me they have done their due diligence. While they have also looked at and brought in other player positions, none seem to be as in depth as their efforts on the QB position.

If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick. If they feel that only one qb is the difference maker we need and he's gone at 4, do you still want take a qb just to take a qb?

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So Bridgewater is now not even an option? Wow!

For Mary Kay...I guess not - ask me if I care lol

btw...we did work him out. So we have interest. If we pass on him as well as others...betcha he becomes a Bengal and will be a thorn in our side for ages.

jmho

The Bengals have perhaps the best talent in the league. Dalton's inconsistencies are really holding them back. If they end up w/Bridgewater............

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This new group has brought in almost every potential QB pick. They've gone there to work them out then bring them here for meetings. It certainly appears to me they have done their due diligence. While they have also looked at and brought in other player positions, none seem to be as in depth as their efforts on the QB position.

If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick. If they feel that only one qb is the difference maker we need and he's gone at 4, do you still want take a qb just to take a qb?

My viewpoint is that they brought in all these QBs to determine where they would take them, not if they would take them at #4 or at #26. I don't think they will take ANY of them there. I still think that they are looking further down the draft for a QB. Any of them that would truly be considered at #4 or #26 will be fighting for far better players at other positions.

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So Bridgewater is now not even an option? Wow!

For Mary Kay...I guess not - ask me if I care lol

btw...we did work him out. So we have interest. If we pass on him as well as others...betcha he becomes a Bengal and will be a thorn in our side for ages.

jmho

If he ends up on the Bengals, I will laugh. I hope he ends up being the heir apparent in Putzburgh.

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If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick.

That pretty much sums up my current thoughts. There is absolutely no question they will pick "their guy", but where? They may even select two...

j/c

The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.

If we pass on one at #26 who is gone at #35, they blew it.

We've seen it before and I'm afraid we will see it again.

Millions of dollars are paid to these guys to do this job. That job? To land a franchise QB. I expect them to do their job.

As a fan base, we've waited too long to expect anything less than that.

The bottom line is any one of the qb's in this draft can be successful and any one of them can be a bust. It's a crap shoot. We will draft one of them. Who it will be is anyones guess. Maybe we will finally get lucky. One can only hope.

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The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.

Conversely, Pit, if they draft a QB at #4 (or 26), and he is a bust, then they also blew it. I (obviously) have to put my trust in their ability to select "the guy"...

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This new group has brought in almost every potential QB pick. They've gone there to work them out then bring them here for meetings. It certainly appears to me they have done their due diligence. While they have also looked at and brought in other player positions, none seem to be as in depth as their efforts on the QB position.

If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick. If they feel that only one qb is the difference maker we need and he's gone at 4, do you still want take a qb just to take a qb?

If we don't take a QB, then we need a difference maker.

That could be a guy like Mack. It could be a WR. (though with the depth at the position, I wouldn't take a WR before the 2nd or 3rd round) However, whatever player we take had to be a guy who makes a major difference as a weapon on either offense or defense. Ideally it will be a great QB. However, I do not think that the pick should be an OT. I believe that would be a failed pick.

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The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.

Conversely, Pit, if they draft a QB at #4 (or 26), and he is a bust, then they also blew it. I (obviously) have to put my trust in their ability to select "the guy"...

I've done that over and over since 1999.

I'll have to see the results and some success before putting trust in anyone's abilities. I understand I have no control or say over what they do. But I've been let down too many times for me to believe in a regime without seeing some results first.

JMHO

Are qbs the only guys who can bust? Why can't Watkins or Mack bust?

I think it boils down to ways they can fail. If we pass on someone at #4, let's say Bridgewater for example since we both like him

And say The Titans or Cardinals take him, then he becomes a great franchise QB, then this regime failed. If they pick Carr at #26 and he busts, they too failed.

So I believe they could fail either way. Any pick can fail at any position.

Can you really say that Bridgewater, for example, would be a franchise QB in our scheme, behind our line with our receivers and backs vs. the Cardinals example you gave? Steve Young pretty much sucked holes in the floor in his Tampa years and it wasn't until he sat behind Montana before he was really ready to become the HOF'er he is.

I don't think you can say if someone works out somewhere else and we passed on them it's a fail.

Bridgewater will take a Geno Smith fall to the late 1st/ early 2nd...

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Bridgewater will take a Geno Smith fall to the late 1st/ early 2nd...

Disagree! Smith had so..so games during the season which placed doubt. Add his size to the his credentials devalued his stock. Bridgewater and Manziel has consistently shown good game film. Biggest issue whether you take a chance on their size. Both require commitment surrounding them with protection. Browns have established an offensive line where as Jacksonville will need work. Taking either QB at #4 makes sense for the Browns.

I can't remember where I posted both the Manziel and Bridgewater threads are sounding alike. I made the comment it would be nice taking one of the 3 OT's at #4 getting lucky later with either Bridgewater or Manziel. History shown teams are not comfortable taking a short QB early in the draft. Having Mathews, Robinson, or Lewan on the right side with Schwartz at RG would give solid protection. Hoping either QB falls to 26 would be mad. Wasting draft picks in this years draft to trade up is silly.

For those having doubts on who the Browns take at #4, take a look at the list of private workouts and visits. Who in the top 10 are not listed? Hint: Clowny, Mathews, Watkins, Robinson, Barr, Tuitt, Nix, Mack, and Lewan. Mack is an exception since his pro-day is the only one Pettine attended.

2014 NFL Draft: Tracking prospects who have visits or workouts with Browns

I just hope whoever we get.. they succeed.. really sick of worrying about boom/bust QB's every darn draft...

Hope we get the right one.

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I think it boils down to ways they can fail. If we pass on someone at #4, let's say Bridgewater for example since we both like him

And say The Titans or Cardinals take him, then he becomes a great franchise QB, then this regime failed. If they pick Carr at #26 and he busts, they too failed.

So I believe they could fail either way. Any pick can fail at any position.

I think Bridgewater can be a pro bowl QB in Tenn or Arizona. I dont think he has the arm nor does he put enough spin on the ball to be a good QB in Cleveland. You need to throw a tight ball in the AFC North in Nov and Dec and it is why I am not sold on Hoyer.

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The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.

That's not really a fact. There is no guarantee that a QB picked where we could have gotten him would be successful here.

That being said, you are probably right...

Anyway, we could pick Teddy at 4 and he could just as easily bust....It's a crap shoot no matter how you look at it.

Noted QB/Offensive Guru Bill Walsh drafted 5 QB's, none in the first round. One went to the HOF the others were nothing.

Even for the best or those that are thought of as best, it's a crap shoot.

If they don't get the guy they want this year, then they gotta win with what they have. Get the guy next year.

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Can you really say that Bridgewater, for example, would be a franchise QB in our scheme, behind our line with our receivers and backs vs. the Cardinals example you gave? Steve Young pretty much sucked holes in the floor in his Tampa years and it wasn't until he sat behind Montana before he was really ready to become the HOF'er he is.

I don't think you can say if someone works out somewhere else and we passed on them it's a fail.

We have a WR in Gordon who caught for more yards than any other WR in the league playing under 3 different QB's in only 14 games. A very well respected TE with good hands, a new RB and a draft ahead of us.

Now if you feel that your question is in regards to our current roster, with no other draft picks to go along with a QB, I believe you might have a point. Our OL has done very well in pass protection.

Andrew Luck was drafted by a team who only won one game without a QB.

You see, any rookie QB needs time to develop just like we have seen with Newton in Carolina. People somehow seem to suggest that we are so far away from being good. But if it takes a QB three years to flourish, if the coaching staff can't take the players we have, build on that with this years draft and another off-season, doesn't the coaching staff and or FO burden that blame?

Don't you honestly believe after seeing the turn around in Seattle, that given the nucleus of talent we currently have, that we should expect this group that runs the show to be able to draft a QB and put the pieces around him to win?

We have some good weapons and 2 more picks in the top 35 to build around a QB with. We can keep making excuses why we shouldn't address the QB, or we can move forward and try to land one.

So yes, if they pass on Bridgewater and he goes elsewhere and succeeds, I consider it a fail. Just like I believe Tampa Bay failed not building around Young and coaching him up to his potential. Looking back, I would call it an epic fail.

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That's not really a fact. There is no guarantee that a QB picked where we could have gotten him would be successful here.

I'll say it again, if a QB is good enough to be successful elsewhere, our FO and staff should have the same ability to get the same talent level and production out of him here. If not, they're not doing their job as obviously someone did it elsewhere.

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That being said, you are probably right...

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Anyway, we could pick Teddy at 4 and he could just as easily bust....It's a crap shoot no matter how you look at it.

For you and I? Yes, it's a crap shoot. For people who make millions to make such decisions? It's their job to get it right. If they can't do it, we have the wrong people running the show.

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If they don't get the guy they want this year, then they gotta win with what they have. Get the guy next year.

If they let a guy by who does great elsewhere, they should have gotten that guy.

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I'll say it again, if a QB is good enough to be successful elsewhere, our FO and staff should have the same ability to get the same talent level and production out of him here. If not, they're not doing their job as obviously someone did it elsewhere.

You can say it as many times as you like and you will still completely wrong each time u spurt it. Every situation is different. QB goes to a team with no OL and no receivers and a poor defense, chances are he is gonna suck, Warner with the Giants. Take an ok QB with a loaded defense, terrific OL good receivers and a run game and you get well Flacco and his 100 million dollar contract.

Qbs are a product of their environment more than any other position in football.

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Are qbs the only guys who can bust? Why can't Watkins or Mack bust?

Of courese not...we've seen that firsthand. I don't want Mack, and as good as Sammy may be, I believe #4 is too high for him. Therefore, if no QB is picked at #4, then I'd prefer Robinson, perhaps Matthews (JT won't play forever)...

My question had nothing to do with our current roster and neither did your statement. Both were very general in nature. Using your logic 31 other teams failed the year Brady was drafted because they didn't forecast his value properly, even teams that didn't need a qb could have spent a 5th on that potential. Pretty tough to live up to those prognostication requirements. We're doomed.

there is no comparison with Gino Smith and Teddy Bridgewater...hands down TB is the better QB. Again I don't buy the BS...Teddy will go high. unless there is injury. Possibly the only concern would be in small hands... Not Frye small more like same size as Colts. So he wears gloves.

He has the same Talent as dare I say - Joe Montana...and if TB makes it to the 3rd round 2nd, late first? I think he will be having a similar success story.

jmho

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For you and I? Yes, it's a crap shoot. For people who make millions to make such decisions? It's their job to get it right. If they can't do it, we have the wrong people running the show.

yeah, and the guys that are paid millions to make such decisions always get it right

It's just as much a crap shoot for them as it is for us...

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My question had nothing to do with our current roster and neither did your statement. Both were very general in nature. Using your logic 31 other teams failed the year Brady was drafted because they didn't forecast his value properly, even teams that didn't need a qb could have spent a 5th on that potential. Pretty tough to live up to those prognostication requirements. We're doomed.

They all did fail. Or are you suggesting they succeeded in landing the best QB in that draft after passing on him so many times?

That's the point to a great extent. People fail at accomplishing things they set out to do. That doesn't mean we shouldn't expect them to succeed. It doesn't mean they aren't getting paid to succeed. Do you honesty felt Haslam thought that this FO wasn't the right group to find the best QB available and draft him for this team?

FO's fail all of the time.

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FO's fail all of the time.

Like I said, the Draft isa Crap Shoot.. For everyone.

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You can say it as many times as you like and you will still completely wrong each time u spurt it. Every situation is different. QB goes to a team with no OL and no receivers and a poor defense, chances are he is gonna suck, Warner with the Giants. Take an ok QB with a loaded defense, terrific OL good receivers and a run game and you get well Flacco and his 100 million dollar contract.

Qbs are a product of their environment more than any other position in football.

So who is responsible for setting up a successful environment for a drafted QB to develop that talent to its fullest? Are you saying we don't have the talent that when adding a couple of drafts and FA signing periods can't provide that environment for a QB?

Look, I'm not saying that you can stick any QB anywhere and he will succeed. I'm saying that WE have the talent to make a QB successful. Tampa Bay sucked for a very long time. Whose fault was it that talent wasn't developed there?

Now if you wish to say you can't draft a QB to a team that sucks at evaluating talent and can't coach, then fine, we agree. Otherwise the QB should be fine.

The environment is built by acquiring talent and coaching. The Ravens made a HUGE mistake not signing his deal the year prior. Instead they ended up paying big because of his playoff run. In case people missed it, their D isn't what it used to be for a few years now.

I mean you can say it is, but we lose against people with far worse D's.

People act like the Rats still have Ray Ray in his prime and we play against the Steel Curtain D. It's simply not so and hasn't been.

'Cleveland Browns GM Ray Farmer may face tough decision about Johnny Manziel -- Terry Pluto'

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...#incart_m-rpt-1

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
on April 28, 2014 at 4:20 PM, updated April 28, 2014 at 6:49 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- For years, Browns fans have been waiting for someone to save them.

Make that decades.

Think of the names: Mike Holmgren, Butch Davis, Brady Quinn, Tim Couch, Eric Mangini, Jimmy Haslam and even Kelly Holcomb. You can add Trent Richardson and Colt McCoy to the list.

So we're talking general managers, coaches, quarterbacks, along with an owner and a running back.

Someone, please stop the pain!

No one has done it yet.

The new man is General Manager Ray Farmer, who may have a chance to draft Johnny Manziel.

There will be tremendous pressure on Farmer to do so.

Manziel is Johnny Football.

He's exciting and incredibly fun to watch because not even Manziel seems to have a clue of what he will do on some of those scrambles across the field,

Manziel will bring instant attention to a franchise which is the worst in the NFL since 1999.

But can Manziel be effective in the NFL?

That's the only thing that matters, the only way the pain stops.

What about Johnny Football?

At his Monday press conference, Farmer talked about his meeting with the Texas A&M quarterback.

“I don’t think I have any reservations with who Johnny is," said the general manager. " He’s a good young man. You don’t get a handbook with how to operate in certain instances. When you go from being a kid from Tyler, Texas, to being Johnny Football and winning the Heisman Trophy really quickly, they don’t hand you a manual and tell you how to handle the media swarm, paparazzi, how to handle people coming up to you at dinners … Good things (are) ahead for him.”

Farmer seemed very sincere in his praise for Manziel.

At that point, I asked Farmer about Manziel the quarterback.

Farmer quickly called Manziel, "Exciting ... electric … dynamic."

He added that Manziel, "turned a lot of heads in the SEC."

But can a 5-foot-11 quarterback who bolts out of the pocket stay healthy? Is his arm strong enough?

Farmer didn't answer that directly.

"(Manziel) is different," said the general manager. "He’s not the quintessential guy who everybody points to and says, ‘This is how you would draw it up, this is the packaging you want.’

"That speaks to a lot of what Johnny has been his entire life, is different. It’s not how you think about playing the position and being effective from the pocket … he had definitely been a very good college football player.”

Reading that, it's hard to know exactly what Farmer thinks about Manziel. It's possible that's how the general manager wants it.

Praising others

He did gush about Clemson receiver Sammy Watkins and Buffalo linebacker Khalil Mack, leaving little doubt Farmer believes both will be impact players in the NFL.

But Manziel?

Farmer sounds a bit divided.

Will Johnny's style of football work in the NFL, especially in the cold, bruising AFC North?

Bet there are some long debates about that in the Browns complex.

Farmer is not afraid to make a gutsy decision. He took a chance by refusing to franchise Alex Mack. It paid off when the Browns were able to match Jacksonville's offer for their Pro Bowl center. So if he's sold on Manziel, he'll be a buyer.

But it does seem Farmer rejects the savior notion for Manziel or any other quarterback that he would draft.

In a February 16th interview with Mary Kay Cabot of the Northeast Ohio Media Group, Farmer said, "People seem to think you can't win unless you have a superstar quarterback. In the NFL, the vast majority of quarterbacks have to be managed. You have to put them in situations where they can be successful."

It's a realistic outlook.

And it would apply to Manziel, assuming the Browns drafted him. But is Farmer willing to put his reputation at stake with Manziel? I doubt it.

I believe Farmer is hoping Brian Hoyer comes back strong from his knee surgery. It's why he's looking at veteran quarterback Vince Young. It's why he probably would prefer not to start a rookie quarterback, and why he'll hunt for one lower in the draft.

Finally, it's why I think he will pass on Manziel and all the other quarterbacks at No. 4.

I believe he will try to minimize the risk at No. 4, picking the player who seem certain to have some immediate success.

But do I know that? Of course not.

Neither does anyone else in the media, and that's how Farmer wants it.

(end)

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Reading that, it's hard to know exactly what Farmer thinks about Manziel.

Mission accomplished for Farmer.

j/c

I'm afraid JFF is the Brian Bosworth (sp?) of QBs...riding in an outstanding hype machine driving up the draft status of a very, very average NFL player.

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j/c

I'm afraid JFF is the Brian Bosworth (sp?) of QBs...riding in an outstanding hype machine driving up the draft status of a very, very average NFL player.

I'd kill for average QB play at this point.

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j/c

I'm afraid JFF is the Brian Bosworth (sp?) of QBs...riding in an outstanding hype machine driving up the draft status of a very, very average NFL player.

I'd kill for average QB play at this point.

Me too...just not with a first round pick in a very deep draft.