3. In 2012 and 2013 his comp% was 56.6 and 59.4%. He's never been a 60% accuracy QB, College or NFL. His TD/INT ratio was 6/5 in those two seasons and his yPA was 6.2 and 6.4. For comparisons sake: Weeden's career yPA was 6.5
"He is a winner" is pretty much looking like the Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow argument when t comes to Hoyer. This guy should not be considered a starter in the NFL, sorry.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
If it was Bortles 2-3 years from now, when he isn't so raw, then hm. I don't know why he came out when he did, the guys just not ready...
If it's me 1 then I don't know how confident I'd feel in Bridgewater. I think he'll be able to move the ball pretty well though. I'd feel confident with him..
I guess in that scenario, if I'm taking them as they are, I'd honestly have to go with JM. He has that playmaking ability. And he's dripping with drive and motivation to be great. He might be moving ahead of Bridgewater for me.
Might as well take the chance.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Couldn't/didn't read all posts, but I'll comment. He had a very good Pro Day as far as those things go.
I like Manziel a lot but I don't think the Pro Day changed anything regarding the main concerns about him. We all know he's accurate. We all know he wants to be a leader and separate himself. We all know he's a cocky SOB (which is good in a ball player).
Size (not height but rather his frame), willingness to stay in the pocket and follow through as opposed to giving up on a play- even a check down, potential off-field problems (not all that worried, actually) were not addressed at all, and they couldn't have been. The biggest plus for Manziel was the timing of his pro day and its polar opposite reaction to Bridgewater's Pro Day in the media world.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Quote: With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive
Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?
Bridgewater.
Except that Teddy Bear didn't do well at his pro day when all the eyes were on him.
If you orchestrate a day when you are going to work out for the scouts and everybody shows up to see you work out, and you choke, it has to make some wonder what will he do when the game is on the line. No?
Bortels did his thing just fine. Johnny Football showed up in pads and helmet and was lights out, and Teddy left people like they just took a swig of beer from a can somebody used to snuff out a cigarette.
Yes, I know there is tape, but Teddy isn't the only bear who has impressive tape.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
If you could guarantee that I could get Watkins at 4, and that Bridgewater would make out of the Top 10, for which I would IMMEDIATLEY trade up for him, I'd be ecstatic.
Obviously you can't.
I feel like now I would go all in on Manziel at 4. Grab either a CB or WR at 26. LB in the 2nd. Then a G and whatever you didn't get at 26 in the 3rd...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Quote: With 2 minutes left down by 6 and the ball at your own 20, who would you rather have as the Browns QB for the drive
Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles?
Bridgewater.
Didn't Bortles do this very thing against Bridgewater and the Cardinals?
so teddy plays both sides of the ball? is he a FS?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I didn't add Bridgewater's name to couple him into the defensive collapse. I added his name in terms of context for the 3 quarterbacks being discussed above. That game was awesome and it was versus two of the three guys being talked about. Someone referenced Bridgewater as their answer, I said Bortles' play against Bridgewater and his team.
You should be able identify the difference.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel? The more I learn, the less I understand. This is confusing (perplexing?), so I'll simply go along for the ride with whomever the FO decides is their guy...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Quote: If you orchestrate a day when you are going to work out for the scouts and everybody shows up to see you work out, and you choke, it has to make some wonder what will he do when the game is on the line. No?
Make some wonder, sure. Not me.
I can see where some would take stock in it, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But you could easily flip it around and point out that guys like Brandon Weeden and JaMarcus Russell had impressive pro days.
Based on what I've seen from watching their college play, Bridgewater is the one I'd choose. These workouts don't really do much to change my mind.
Overall, I'm not high on any of these guys. I don't think I'd take any of them at 4.
Bridgewater is the closest I'd come. I have concerns about his arm strength, but you can make it in the NFL with a weaker arm so long as you know where to go with it.
The older I get the more I tend to look at not only the player, but the team they're joining as well. If the Browns took Tom Brady, he'd probably be selling cars in Ann Arbor right now. If Carson Palmer hadn't have wound up in Cincinnati, I think he could've been at the top of the QB pile with some rings. What happens if we drafted Rodgers and threw him into the fire early? Are we Super Bowl champs, or is he on his second team trying to get over the hump? Etc.
In that regard, I think it's best to wait and see where people end up before making predictions on their NFL careers.
I still like Teddy the best. I love intelligence. I think that is what wins game at QB. The top qbs are all different sizes, but they have one thing in common--------they are all football smart.
Teddy is unbelievably intelligent. Two things I noticed, Gruden said Teddy was in the top 3 or 4 of all the qbs he has interviewed. However, he also said that there is no doubt about that part of his game. To me, that was like saying he doubted his physical skills. That bothered me a bit.
Manziel is my number two guy. He keeps rising and falling in my eyes. Not really from the 2nd position, but how close or how far away he is from Teddy and how far above or how close he is to Bortles. The Gruden interview was fascinating. There is just something about this kid that spells winner. He could energize a franchise. He could turn a franchise around. If ever a team needed a guy like Manziel, it's Cleveland. On the other hand, like Gruden said........you can't win games from the sidelines.
Bortles is my third guy. He has the weakest arm of the bunch. Yeah, he is the biggest, but his arm isn't as good. It's not bad, but I think it's BS when people say he has the best arm of the three. He has some "it" to him because he is good at the end of games. What worries me about him is that he doesn't look off the safety and he isn't great at going through his progressions. He also makes some very poor reads. Great upside, though.
I didn't add Bridgewater's name to couple him into the defensive collapse. I added his name in terms of context for the 3 quarterbacks being discussed above. That game was awesome and it was versus two of the three guys being talked about. Someone referenced Bridgewater as their answer, I said Bortles' play against Bridgewater and his team.
You should be able identify the difference.
my bad. i should've added the purpl font and an "lol". i wasn't actually serious.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I loved the Gruden QB camp with Manziel. I also loved the footballs without laces and the fact Manziel was like a kid with a new toy, I want some of those!!!! lol I have seen guys with good sized hands spin the ball to get the laces, the way Manziel was just engulfing the ball and slinging it was exactly what you need in Dec. May have been the Best Gruden I have seen as well.
If you watched his footwork during both the proday and Grudens work out he was squaring his body. Not perfect but I saw tremendous improvement and that is why he was getting so much zip on the ball. The opposite is true on Bridgewater, What was pretty good mechanics was erratic and he was pushing the ball.
Quote: I still like Teddy the best. I love intelligence. I think that is what wins game at QB. The top qbs are all different sizes, but they have one thing in common--------they are all football smart.
Teddy is unbelievably intelligent. Two things I noticed, Gruden said Teddy was in the top 3 or 4 of all the qbs he has interviewed. However, he also said that there is no doubt about that part of his game. To me, that was like saying he doubted his physical skills. That bothered me a bit.
Manziel is my number two guy. He keeps rising and falling in my eyes. Not really from the 2nd position, but how close or how far away he is from Teddy and how far above or how close he is to Bortles. The Gruden interview was fascinating. There is just something about this kid that spells winner. He could energize a franchise. He could turn a franchise around. If ever a team needed a guy like Manziel, it's Cleveland. On the other hand, like Gruden said........you can't win games from the sidelines.
Bortles is my third guy. He has the weakest arm of the bunch. Yeah, he is the biggest, but his arm isn't as good. It's not bad, but I think it's BS when people say he has the best arm of the three. He has some "it" to him because he is good at the end of games. What worries me about him is that he doesn't look off the safety and he isn't great at going through his progressions. He also makes some very poor reads. Great upside, though.
Even more impressive was the interviews with Warner and Mayock after his Pro Day was done. This kids HUNGRY for success. Me likes that. Talking to Brady and Manning is a great start.
2 minutes left and down by 3. I like he and Bridgewater for their shorter route accuracy. But Manziel BY A LANDSLIDE when creativity is needed. His FEET will get you that 1st down on 3rd and 7 with 30 seconds left. He strikes me like he'd rather lose a leg than lose.
I'm set in stone on this.
Bridgewater or Manziel at 4. NO OTHER WAY TO GO PEOPLE. Stop the ignorant talk of either being there at 26. WILL NOT HAPPEN. Fuller CB Perfect #2 with Size and Press Man talent Mathews WR Perfect #2 with Size Borland ILB Finishes this defense OG
Quote: I like Hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
I thought that he became the starter last season until the season-ending injury.
He replaced Brandon Weeden...let me repeat...Brandon Weeden...who was not this regime's QB and by the way Hoyer isn't either..
If I was afraid, due to precedence, that my job depended on success..I too would want the QB that I personally choose leading my fate.
You could be right, but you should remember that Farmer was part of the group that DID bring in both Campbell & Hoyer. He was the Asst. GM under Lombardi. That isn't to say that he was Lombardi agreed on much (if anything), but he was part of that group.
Also, he is the only QB that they kept on the roster of the QBs that started games for the Browns last season. They thought that he was worth at least that much.
Tom Brady Kevin Kolb John Skelton Ryan Lindley Brandon Weeden
He was technically QB3 out of camp for us, but I won't say that he backed up Jason Campbell because when push came to shove, he started above him. But, in Arizona, those 3 guys each got starts before he did.
Arizona traded for Kolb (a player, DRC, who was a 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection) so, he was going to start over Hoyer.
Both Skelton and Lindley were draft picks of the team. You'll recall that Hoyer went undrafted.
Manziel does more to find ways to generate points than any other QB in the past ten years...He will come up short, but he won't throw the ball away on 4th and 10 just because he has a defender in his face and doesn't want to get hit. He will find a way to get the ball in the vicinity of a receiver past those down markers. That extends drives and scores points, which hopefully won't be matched when his defense takes the field like at A&M. He has anything resembling a BCS caliber defense and Manziel wins 2 National Championships...
The Browns are putting together a top flight defense, with someone who inspires on the other side of the ball, maybe, just maybe they get the job done late in games.
Quote: He will come up short, but he won't throw the ball away on 4th and 10 just because he has a defender in his face and doesn't want to get hit
Hope he's strong enough and tough enough to take that hit if he can't get out of the way.
Watching the clips from his pro day, yeah, he's very athletic.. No question. He's a guy that seems to be able to make things happen.
I do have to wonder, and this is really my only question, the things he did in college, will he be able to do them in the Pros. I mean the Pros are bigger, faster and more well trained and developed than his opponents in college. Can he do those things against those guys?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: As NFL spokesman Randall Liu explained it via e-mail, each team may transport a maximum of 30 draft-eligible players to the team’s home city or another location for a one-day physical examination. These players cannot be timed and tested. Interviews and written tests may be conducted during the visit.
Yes anarchy, but I find it ironic that when cleaning house, Lombardi and Banner are banished, while Farmer is promoted after a 4 win season. I can only surmise that Lombardi, whom Banner brought in, wouldn't consult with Haslem's guy (Farmer) the way he had hoped. Thus remove Banner (who bay all accounts was nearly forced upon Haslem from the NFL Front office) and his henchman and replace them with the guy Haslem really wanted to influence the roster all along.
Did Farmer have influence on the QB position? No one will ever know that, but one of the two pieces that tandem brought in is already gone, and the other one could be replaced in as little as 6 weeks. When evaluating assets, which is what a businessman like Haslem does for a living, which one is has value? The journey vet who cannot find a starting position despite his experience and was not effective in any of his starts the year before? Or, the journeyman backup, who finally was given a chance to start and was semi-efficient enough to win his only two(three) starts the same year with the same team?
With Campbell, you have what you have..There isn't much room for marketing that asset, cutting losses was about all you would ever receive, so do it and move on.
Hoyer is something you can actually market, whether he is in your future plans or not. He showed enough to do one of two things...1) Keep and have an efficient veteran backup for your future hopeful stud or 2) If he isn't satisfied after tasting the starter success, turn it into draft money in the form of a trade after acquiring a QB at pick #4.
Question is, what kind of trade research can you do prior to the draft when your main goal is to keep it under wraps of your draft intentions...You can't, so the value will be diminished and you might as well keep Hoyer as that valuable backup.
Still much to ride on for the coaching staff who had ZERO to do with bringing Hoyer in as their fate hangs in the balance.
Quote: I do have to wonder, and this is really my only question, the things he did in college, will he be able to do them in the Pros. I mean the Pros are bigger, faster and more well trained and developed than his opponents in college. Can he do those things against those guys?
Are they bigger, faster and more well trained?
Seemed to me that he faced his future NFL opponents on Saturdays on a regular basis..Most of the ones he faced are in the same boat he is being drafted to take him on, on Sundays.
Are they better trained in the NFL? Of course...Will HE be better trained in the NFL? Of course!!!
I would like to think he is smart enough to avoid those who can do the most damage to him. Just as he adapted from 2012 to 2013 in the form of running and taking on head on collisions, I expect the same adjustment at the next level. There is nothing by way of his career to show me he is stubborn and refuses to adapt.
Quote: Arizona traded for Kolb (a player, DRC, who was a 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection) so, he was going to start over Hoyer.
Both Skelton and Lindley were draft picks of the team. You'll recall that Hoyer went undrafted.
And Belichick also believed so strongly in Hoyer that he drafted two QBs to replace him in consectutive years, he survived a 7th round draft pick, then was permanently replaced the following year by a 3rd round choice. So is that Hoyer's value? Lower than a 3rd round choice?
If so, then my conclusions are that he can be a consistent starter, but his ceiling is extremely low to put this team on his shoulders when the need arises, like 4 wins needed in the playoffs to hoist a Lombardi Trophy...That is my ultimate goal and I want the guy who does posses those attributes leading the team.
Quote: I do have to wonder, and this is really my only question, the things he did in college, will he be able to do them in the Pros. I mean the Pros are bigger, faster and more well trained and developed than his opponents in college. Can he do those things against those guys?
Are they bigger, faster and more well trained?
Seemed to me that he faced his future NFL opponents on Saturdays on a regular basis..Most of the ones he faced are in the same boat he is being drafted to take him on, on Sundays.
Are they better trained in the NFL? Of course...Will HE be better trained in the NFL? Of course!!!
I would like to think he is smart enough to avoid those who can do the most damage to him. Just as he adapted from 2012 to 2013 in the form of running and taking on head on collisions, I expect the same adjustment at the next level. There is nothing by way of his career to show me he is stubborn and refuses to adapt.
Yes, I'd say that by and large, the ones CURRENTLY in the NFL are bigger, faster and more well trained than a rookie coming into the league.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I am starting to think that Manziel has the highest superstar potential of any QB in this draft. I think that he could be a guy who takes his team to a championship based on what he brings more than what any other player on the team brings.
I also think that he could blow up and completely bust.
Bridgewater seems like a guy with a really high floor, but I don't know how high his ceiling is. I think that he can be a competent QB, but I don't know if he'll ever be a superstar. However, a very competent QB can be enough to win with ... I just don't know if it's enough to win it all with.
Bortles appears to be the most "prototypical" of the top 3 QBs. He has the size most teams covet. He is 6'5" and 232#, has quick feet and is said to have solid footwork in the pocket. He doesn't have a rocket arm, but I have seen and read that he can make all of the throws very well. He appears to have good accuracy. Unfortunately, he also is the most inconsistent of the top 3. According to CBS, he could be Andrew Luck. or he could be Jake Locker. Big difference there.
Whoever winds up making the 1st QB decision is going to really have a hard choice.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Here is some stats "hype" from the A&M website. If A&M had any kind of defense Johnny would have made them National Champs. Competition wise, between the top three QB prospects A&M schedule blows the other two away.
There just isn't a better, more exciting player to watch. Manziel has the wins, the stats, more stats and the swag to back it all up. But for some reason, Heisman talk has been pretty quiet surrounding Manziel. Sure, he won the award last year, and his in-your-face offseason created some Manziel fatigue, but you can't ignore Manziel's 2013 body of work.
Through 10 games, Manziel leads the SEC and ranks third nationally with 3,313 passing yards. He's second nationally with a completion percentage of 73.0 and 31 passing touchdowns, and he is third with an efficiency rating of 186.9. He leads the SEC with 331.3 passing yards per game and is also 12th in the league with 611 rushing yards and eight touchdowns. Manziel has thrown for more than 300 yards six times -- and in four of those he surpassed 400 yards -- and has thrown three or more touchdowns seven times.
He ranks fourth nationally with a QBR of 88.5.
At this point last year, Manziel had 2,780 passing yards and 18 touchdown passes. Yeah, he's thrown for 533 more yards and 13 more touchdowns this season.
No, Manziel isn't slicing up defenses with his feet like he did last year, but he's a much better passer and he's still capable of doing mind-blowing things like this.
This was supposed to be a season in which the fame and offseason gallivanting clouded Manziel's on-field vision. No way was he going to sniff duplicating his fantastic freshman campaign. His focus wouldn't be there, and he'd more than likely turn into a shell of his former self.
Well, Johnny Football only got better! He goes through his progressions, reads defenses and likes to throw first. Sure, he could carve up any defense at will, but he'd rather throw this year. He'd rather look at his second and third options before taking off. And when he does take off, good luck. The quarterback/ballerina can shimmy and shake his way past a drove of defenders with relative ease, but he has been more guarded this season, and that hasn't been a bad thing.
Manziel also is putting up Playstation numbers with his own defense collapsing around him. The Aggies' defense has been dreadful, giving up a league-high 454.4 yards per game and more than 30 points a contest. Manziel is trampling defenses in spite of his defense.
But Manziel has two losses, you'll shout! He has 11 interceptions, you howl. Yes and yes, but he also had two losses and nine interceptions last year, yet ran away with the Heisman.
Look at his numbers in losses. In the 49-42 loss to No. 1 Alabama, which ranks sixth nationally in total defense, he rallied his team back from a 35-14 deficit with 464 passing yards, five touchdowns and 98 rushing yards. In the 45-41 loss to Auburn, Manziel threw for 454 yards and four touchdowns, while adding 48 rushing yards and another score. What was even more impressive about his play was that he completed 10 passes for 102 yards and ran for a touchdown after an apparent shoulder injury.
Compare his numbers in losses to those of former Heisman frontrunner Marcus Mariota in Oregon's loss to Stanford, and it's not even a close race. Mariota threw for 250 yards and two scores against the Cardinal, but he ran for minus-16 and didn't lead the Ducks to a scoring drive until the fourth quarter. Manziel either gets in the end zone or leads his teams to scores while lighting up the stat sheet no matter the outcome.
Injuries don't faze him. You saw it against Auburn, and you saw it when his knee buckled during his 470 total-yard performance in the Aggies' 41-38 win over Ole Miss.
The kid is a machine, and he's darn near impossible to stop.
As the clock winds down on college football season, we finally can get into the nitty gritty of the Heisman race. At this point, it's all about Johnny Football and Florida State freshman quarterback phenom Jameis Winston, who trails Manziel by 1,106 total offensive yards and nine touchdowns. http://standouts.aggieathletics.com/manziel/
Quote: Arizona traded for Kolb (a player, DRC, who was a 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection) so, he was going to start over Hoyer.
Both Skelton and Lindley were draft picks of the team. You'll recall that Hoyer went undrafted.
And Belichick also believed so strongly in Hoyer that he drafted two QBs to replace him in consectutive years, he survived a 7th round draft pick, then was permanently replaced the following year by a 3rd round choice. So is that Hoyer's value? Lower than a 3rd round choice?
If so, then my conclusions are that he can be a consistent starter, but his ceiling is extremely low to put this team on his shoulders when the need arises, like 4 wins needed in the playoffs to hoist a Lombardi Trophy...That is my ultimate goal and I want the guy who does posses those attributes leading the team.
His value can be whatever he shows it to be. Kurt Warner, a shoe-in HOF QB, proved his NFL credentials and didn't get his shot until age 28. He languished in the area league and NFL Europe.
For what it's worth, so has Tony Romo, another undrafted QB, despite his troubles in the post-season. Romo didn't even see the field as a QB for the first three years. He sat behind Quincy Carter and Chad Hutchinson. Hutchinson was cut and Testaverde was signed. Then Carter was cut (drug use) and the Cowboys traded for Drew Henson. Then, after Testaverde left, they signed Drew Bledsoe. It wasn't until Bledsoe began to stink up the joint that Romo got his shot. That was in 2006, three years after he was signed by the Cowboys as a college free agent.
Scout: Mike Evans made Johnny Manziel, not other way around By Dan Parr
It was somewhat lost in the immediate aftermath of Johnny Manziel Mania coming off last week's pro day at Texas A&M, but wide receiver Mike Evans might have put on an even more impressive performance than his teammate during the workout.
NFL Media senior analyst Gil Brandt, who was on hand for the event, had the highest praise for Evans, tweeting that Evans had the best hands he had seen since Calvin Johnson. The reactions to Evans' showing only reinforced the notion that he might be picked before Manziel, the player who has overshadowed Evans and every other prospect this year given his celebrity status.
Evans might not be getting overshadowed by Manziel much on the draft boards of NFL teams, though.
One NFC scout apparently is much more impressed with Evans than Johnny Football, saying that Manziel has been the bigger beneficiary in the QB-WR relationship.
"In my opinion, (Evans) made Johnny Manziel, not the other way around," the unnamed scout told NJ.com "A lot of times, Manziel just ran around and threw it up for grabs, and (Evans) came down with it."
The two combined to form one of college football's most dominant QB-WR connections over the past two seasons, and it's true that Evans' rare combination of size, leaping ability and sure-handedness made him a perfect target to make plays on jump-balls thrown by Manziel that other receivers wouldn't have been able to make. It's also true that Evans wouldn't have had an opportunity to make many of those plays if Manziel didn't have the arm and improvisational skills to make the throws.
Neither Evans or Manziel totally "made" the other. The two complemented each other well, but there certainly are fewer questions about Evans' game translating to the NFL than there are for Manziel's. Barring them somehow ending up on the same NFL team, the question of who was the bigger beneficiary of the connection could be settled before long.
In addition to the scout's comment on Evans, an unnamed AFC personnel executive had some strong criticism for the top tight ends in this year's draft published in the NJ.com article.
Here's a look at what he had to say about North Carolina's Eric Ebron, considered the top tight end available this year, and Washington's Austin Seferian-Jenkins, who is listed No. 2 at tight end in NFL Media draft analyst Mike Mayock's positional top-five rankings.
» On whether Ebron is as good as Tyler Eifert, the first tight end drafted last year (21st overall to the Bengals):
"Hell no. He's OK. He's completely overrated, and he's a pain in the (butt). And don't ask him to block anybody, because he's not going to do it."
» On Seferian-Jenkins:
"He's more overrated and a bigger pain in the (butt) than the other guy. And he blocks like a wide receiver. I don't want any part of him."
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
What a load of horse crap. Aside from ONE play that he "Threw up for Grabs" which was against Alabama, that guy is talking out of his butt. I'd challenge him to show me the clips of that.
I have heard that many times, and every time I ask for some proof it goes back to that ONE play against Alabama.
I just randomly picked a "highlight" vid from Manziel, and even there were some of those. If you watch the condensed games with EVERY throw you will see many more of them, not all completions and thus not all make highlight clips. You need to watch an entire game to see it, but from this vid alone
1. Throw at 1:05. He just lobbed it into the EZ in triple coverage. Evans saved his butt. Dumb ass throw
2. 2:30, the Bama play
The rest of this highlight does not have those "up for grabs" throws, but most big plays on it were to Evans simply owning his CB 1on1. But again, those up for grabbers exist when you watch some of his incompletions and INTs too, not just highlights
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
1:30 -1:36 - That is a fantastic throw. He looks off the safety with his eyes and throws a great back shoulder fade. Evans lacks the athleticism to reel that one in. Some could argue that is "Throwing it up for grabs". I guess it depends how you WANT to see it.
6:10 - 6:19 - It's 4th down and goal, I guess you could call that "Throwing it up for grabs" but it's 4th down, his guard got beat like he stole something. Eye of the beholder.
7:00 - 7:06 - Again, instant pressure, escapes and "Throws it up" for a first down. Just depends on how you want to see that.
7:42 -7:52 - decent, not great (kind of a floater) back shoulder throw for TD. Depending on how you want to look at it, you could say he "Threw it up".
8:31 - 8:49 - His first INT, Evans ran the wrong route or Manziel threw the wrong route, either way Evans was no where to be found.
12:05 - 12:16 - Another one you could easily see as "Throwing it up"...Evans is standing around by himself.
12:23 - 12:32 - In my mind that's a poorly thrown back shoulder fade, but it was still almost a touchdown. Call it "Throwing it up" for Evans if you want, but that's not what it is.
12:42 - 13:00 - Terrible decision to throw the ball there, but it was hardly "throwing it up"
Now what I see when I watch this film is this. LSU was bringing a corner blitz on (if I had to guesstimate) 40% of these plays and getting pressure on almost every single down. What I see is Mike Evans playing against cover 1, if not zero and not getting open. Most of the clutch 3rd down plays are made by receivers other than Evans.
Now I haven't been high on Evans. He had these huge, monster (statistical) games and he vanished in the rest. We're talking about a guy who only had 5 100 yard games this year, in this video LSU shut him DOWN with Freshman corners. He was a ghost against Missou and couldn't crack 100 yards against Duke.
I think he lacks the speed to be a #1, that's just me, but even if you believe Evans to be a #1. To say that Evans "Made" Manziel is ridiculous, Evans had 1,300 and 12 TD's, Manziel threw for 4,100 yards and 37 TD's.
Beyond all of this, beyond the numbers, what can be proven is, how many opportunities did Manziel CREATE for Evans to make great catches? Where as other QBs would have been sacked. I'm not going through all of the film again. I just know, from having watched all the throws, that saying Evans made Manziel is hogwash.
If anything really concerns me upon watching his worst game of the season it would be 1. The overthrows, I think I counted 6 and 2. The hits he takes, he's got to slide.
It's all good. It really is a chicken-egg thing when arguing Evans-Manziel. I just posted a scout's view who happened to agree with my opinion. There ARE also legit arguments for Manziel, no doubt.
Manziel, to me, falls into the same fifty-fifty "roll the dice" category Weeden was in. Totally opposite players, but when it comes to boom/bust actually pretty similar. I was higher on Weeden though and tend to think Manziel will bust, but I'd still roll the dice, because even a 25% chance of hitting the jackpot is better than doing nothing and not taking a chance. 25% is still better than 0%, that's how I see it. I had the same argument when I pimped Weeden. You gotta at least try. Drafting "not to lose" when you don't have a QB on the roster is not even trying.
Since we still don't have a QB, I'd be ok if we took a shot with him....just not as our first pick and not in the top 10. If he falls to 26? Or past Top 15 for a cheap trade up? Sure, flip the coin. I wouldn't be a fan of it, but I'd understand
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
You still gotta take the right guy. I think we would have been much better off if we had taken Wilson, Foles, Kirk Cousins, or even Brock Osweiler in that draft....
Actually ouch -- of the next 4 QBs to be drafted, at least three are legit. That was a really deep QB draft and we were the only team to strike out.
I'm not sure about that. Wilson, of course, but the others?
Even Foles. Put Foles in our Offense without a Shady he can work off of and he'd look much less like a franchise QB. Better than Weeden? or "better off"? Sure, but not sure any of them outside Wilson would have been the solution given our situation.
Osweiler has shown nothing yet and Cousins is somehow incredibly overrated around here because he happened to have his magic moment in a spot start against us.
I actually prefer those boom/bust guys over guys like Foles, Cousins, Colt etc...who can be a tease and you end up wasting way too much time hoping to win "around them". With guys like Weeden or Manziel or even Carr....you will either have a top 10 guy or guy who nobody considers starting material after 20 or so games.
Since it's opening day, I'll put this argument in a baseball metaphor: do you want your cleanup hitter to be a power bat with high K % or a singles and doubles hitter with OBP skills? You can win both ways, but if you have the latter, you need more talent and good hitters around that. Maybe Haslam should call the A's for advice to build a winner
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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