DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Johnny Manziel (Yet Again)

If we take a QB at four it has to be Manziel. I just don't see the same ceiling in any of the other guys. No one can change what it means to "Play Like a Brown" faster than Manziel.

That's who I would pick if I were them. But they seem to really be struggling with the choice. I wouldn't be surprised if they traded down with Jacksonville.

I think it goes Clowney, Robinson, Mack. I just don't know what teams will be picking who.

Sometimes I truly believe that the draft can be over analyzed especially by the media. That is understandable because they have to say something and they have a lot of time space to fill.

After the college season ends the most important part of the evaluation process is to try and determine what makes these young guys tick? How bad does he want it?

The combine provides the physicals and the measurables. The works outs are more geared to find out "if" the guy fits into the coaches vision of how they will play within the team schemes.

The rest of the noise is all media overkill.

Personally I have zeroed in on all the quarterback prospects since the season ended last year knowing the Browns would be in the QB market.

Regarding Manziel I have watched almost every game and I see no reason for him to be considered a top ten guy. In fact, I do not see him carrying a first round grade. Bortles in my opinion carries a late first round grade. Carr third round prospect at best.

Garopollo has good potential because he has the type of skills NFL coaches covet. However, draft wise his grade is second round.

The only quarterback in this draft worthy of a top ten selection is
Teddy Bridgewater period end of sentence. Really I could care less what anyone says. I have taken the time to study these guys and I know what I see.

If the Browns like Bridgewater they should take him at four. Do not play games and think they can get him later. This draft has plenty of players who carry first round grades and with pick 26 they get a good player where BPA intersects need. Be that at receiver ( this draft is loaded), OT, SS, CB, ILB.

I like Hoyer. He should get his chance. He may seize it and not let go. However, the Browns have to address quarterback in this draft. Bridgewater is the best quarterback in this draft and the Browns should take him if they can. Then move forward. If he is gone go BPA hopefully Watkins will be there. If Bridgewater and Watkins are gone then take the best player on the board. That maybe Mack or Robinson. Don't complicate things. The fourth pick in this draft has to be an impact player.

Johnny Manziel would be a reach of the worst kind. The Browns would taking a huge risk and passing on safer better talent.

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Manziel could be more of a Franchise QB possibility than Luck,

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10... 9... 8... Grabbing my hard hat.. 7... 6... 5... Climbing under my desk 4... 3... waiting for the inevitable. 2... 1....

I have to agree with him lol. His ceiling is just off the charts. He just doesnt get the credit for being as good of a passer as he is. He is the 2nd best passer in this class behind carr. He played in the toughest disivion. He is also the most frustrating player for defenses that I have ever seen. You see this kid break defenses not just physically but also mentally and emotionally.

Manziel in the shannahan offense is just scary to think about. Those wide runs are designed to wear down and frustrate defenses and now they will find chasing Johny is even more frustrating. I may not be watching the Browns this fall but I will be watching Manziel.

so, I like Manziel a well... but are you an Aggie or somethin'? I haven't heard you this excited about a QB since, well, Ryan Tannehill lol.

And aren't you real big on Mike Evans this year?

hmm...

Talent is talent. I had Tannehill above RG3 because I thought RG3 was oblivious to a pass rush. He would stand in there and take a hit no matter what, and as much as we all admire that quality, you just cant do that. I saw Tannheill as someone that could be effective from day 1, should show improvement in year 2 and break out in year 3. I think the big step forward comes this year or it may not come at all. The choke at the end of the season was alarming. BTW would u rather have tannehill and Alshon Jeffery who i was pimping or Trich and weeden lol.

Johny Football is just fun to watch and he has all the tools minus 2 more inches in height. I like him for the Browns, they need that spark he brings. Hell gordon had 1600 yards last year and we were just deflated.

Evans was my #1 behind Clowney. Size, power, deceptive speed, best hands in football, and he makes the big plays when needed and at the Manziel proday he ran fantastic routes. Admitedly it was against air but being physical isnt a problem for him.

Nothing at all to do with what they have on their helmet just the fact that A&M are putting out some really good Offensive talent. Hell they will likely have 3 players from offense go top 10.

I'm on board w/ Manzel. He does have the highest ceiling.
He has the three I's Gruden pointed out,
Improvise
Intangible
Individual Determination ( effort)

The good news, so does Hoyer in my mind. We can run a similar system for both guys so not much scheme change- just in case.

If I guaranteed you all but one lotto number right, would you be willing to bet $100 at the chance to win the lotto?

That's what I feel like Manziel is like. If he hits, it's going to be really, really, really good. But if not, you'll feel like you just flushed $100 dollars down the toilet.

The only handicap that I see in Manziel's game is his durability. The rest is fixable and the Browns/Shannahan offense is tailored to have a more mobile QB back there. Cut the field in half and let Manziel do what he does best.

Johnny Salvation?

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Manziel has the most upside in this draft. To me, he has the potential to be Peyton Manning, in (Somebody's) body. Somebody with a glass jaw.

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Curious why you would say Manziel has a glass jaw. The guy hasn't missed a snap for health reasons in 2 years playing against SEC defenses...

To everyone who replied to the Manziel video, yea, I liked the way he came across a lot too. All the highlights (and lowlights) were cool to watch. I liked his attitude too. Now I won't feel as bad if we pick him in the draft....

Blake Bortles also came came across well in his episode with Gruden.

the most impressive thing about Manziel with Gruden was throwing the ball with no laces. No adjustment, he just snatched the ball and threw it with accuracy and velocity and he can really spin it. I think he is the perfect QB for Cleveland.

This is not a reply to you directly. It is about Manziel.

When I read or hear that Manziel has the "it" factor first I question the author then I want to know what "it" is and how will it help the Browns?

Manziel is a polarizing player but when you remove the hype and emotion and judge him as purely a football player and project him into the NFL.

There is no way he is worthy of being drafted in the first round of this draft. That does not mean he is a bad player. Nor does it mean he can not be successful in the NFL. Russell Wilson was a third round player and he won a Super Bowl.

If you judge Manziel based upon the measurables, intangibles, production, game film, and any other factors you plug in. You have a two player who is under six feet tall. You have plenty of film showing questionable decisions with the ball. A guy who tucked the ball and ran way to often. A player who often did not read the defense in front him. Off field questions legit or not? None of it adds up to a player worthy of being taken in the first round let alone with the fourth pick.

He won in grand fashion. He was exciting. "He will add excitement to the franchise". I don't care. I want a guy who will play sixteen games a year and win games when you need him most. A player who can lead a franchise and not be headline distraction.

Reaching for Manziel in the first round of this draft would not be a smart move. There are too many good players that will be available.

If he was there in the second maybe if Bridgewater, Bortles, and Garopollo were gone. That is where I rank Manziel behind the guys just mentioned.

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If you judge Manziel based upon the measurables, intangibles, production, game film, and any other factors you plug in. You have a two player who is under six feet tall. You have plenty of film showing questionable decisions with the ball. A guy who tucked the ball and ran way to often. A player who often did not read the defense in front him. Off field questions legit or not? None of it adds up to a player worthy of being taken in the first round let alone with the fourth pick.

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"it" is an intangible that you can't take out and put back in when it suits you.. Bernie Kosar had "it", his "it" was his intelligence and leadership... Brett Favre had "it", his "it" was his toughness and willingness to take chances... Fran Tarkenton had "it", his "it" was his ability to escape and make plays out of nothing...

All 3 of those guys had what we would call today, serious red flags . For Bernie it was his lack of athleticism, for Favre it would have been his gunslinging recklessness with the ball, and for Tarkenton it would have been his size... yet each one was able to overcome them because of their specific "it"

So my answer is that "it" isn't just one thing.. "it" is whatever a player has that allows them to overcome their other limitations.

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Manziel is a polarizing player

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To whom?

Aside from being the most athletic QB in the draft and playing the toughest competition while having one of the worst defenses and having to put up 40+ every game, he will put fannies in the seats, draw national attention and put numbers on the board.

I agree about JM being athletic, having the it factor, and is smart. I also think he will have to change his game alot in tle nfl. If he tries to run around in the nfl like he did in college he will get seriously hurt. The players he will play against in this league are bigger, faster and stronger than any he ever faced before. I don't know If he is big enough and strong enough to take the pounding especially in our division.JMHO.

What does our division have to do with anything? Did they move us to the NFC West?

Our division has very physical defenses whom we have to play 6 times. Granted other d's are tough also, seattle and sf come to mind but I think Baltimore and Pitts. are as tough as anyone.

Maziel played against some of the top defenses in college football and put up points at will (Alabama 49-42). His catch me if you can style will drive NFL defenses nuts and put points on the board. All he needs is a little schooling on throwing the ball away and a crash course on sliding. And don't forget, as each season passes this league is more and more a "ref protect the QB league."

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If you judge Manziel based upon the measurables, intangibles, production, game film, and any other factors you plug in. You have a two player who is under six feet tall. You have plenty of film showing questionable decisions with the ball. A guy who tucked the ball and ran way to often. A player who often did not read the defense in front him. Off field questions legit or not? None of it adds up to a player worthy of being taken in the first round let alone with the fourth pick.

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First you say all of that and then you say you MIGHT take him in the 2nd round?

Comments like that make zero sense.

If a team thinks like what you said they need to take him OFF their board and say we will not draft Manziel EVER. His talent breakdown doesn't get better the further down the draft we go. This isn't like sitting with some pretty good looking chick at the local bar who looks better and better with each passing shot.

"First you say all of that and then you say you MIGHT take him in the 2nd round?"
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The Browns are in need at the quarterback position. I rank Manziel as the fourth best prospect. If the other three are off the board I would consider him. He would be worth the risk in the second round. He is not worth the risk in the first.

Manziel has skills. He has won big games under pressure. I said it is not like he is a bad player or he can not be successful. He just is not worth a first round pick with the other players available in this draft.

I don't really see how that does not make sense. There are plenty of people that want the Browns to take him with the fourth pick in the draft. That is what does not make sense.

The draft is about getting value with the pick. Not reaching for need over talent at another position.

Do you see all the back and forth opinions and debating that is going on over JM. That would indicate to me that he has some serious questions about his abilities to be successful in this league. I'm not saying he won't become a good qb but right now there are some questions. The best college defenses are not as good as the ones in the NFL.

The same could be said for any QB in this draft concerning opinions. But I would say people trying to indicate Manziel will be as successful and not being susceptible to injury if he continues to scramble like he has been in the NCAA are simply buying into hype and emotion. RG3 has shown this simply isn't the case.

You are right. Only the best from the NCAA over the past decade are playing in the NFL. Not the class of 2014.

Will the Texans draft Johnny Manziel No. 1 overall and how will that impact what the Cleveland Browns do at No. 4?: Hey Mary Kay!

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/04/what_will_the_texans_do_at_no.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
on April 26, 2014 at 2:06 PM, updated April 26, 2014 at 2:19 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Hey Mary Kay!

Hey Mary Kay: Will the Texans take Johnny Manziel at No. 1 and how will that impact what the Browns do at No. 4?

-- Kevin Mulach, Rocky River, Ohio

Hey Kevin: The Texans are poised to draft either South Carolina pass-rusher Jadeveon Clowney or Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel, according to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. But there's now plenty of talk that the Falcons will trade up from No. 6 to No. 1 to draft Clowney. If Clowney, Manziel, and Sammy Watkins are all gone, the Browns will have their choice of quarterback Blake Bortles, pass-rusher Khalil Mack and offensive tackle Greg Robinson. They could also tab quarterback Derek Carr in that scenario, although many analysts believe he's a reach at No. 4. If Manziel is there at No. 4, they will have a big and exciting decision to make. There's a large part of me that thinks they should do it if he's there.

Hey, Mary Kay: What are your thoughts on the possibility of the Browns taking Sammy Watkins at No. 4 and then finding a way to grab Derek Carr before the Cardinals draft at No. 20? IMO Watkins makes any quarterback we field better. Teaming Watkins across from Josh Gordon would be a legitimate Championship team of receivers.

- John Mann, Parma Hts, Ohio

Hey John: I think it's a strategy the Browns will strongly consider. The only problem is that some teams have Carr rated very highly and he might not make it out of the teens. If the Browns really like Carr, they might have to spring for him at No. 4. The Raiders like him at No. 5, and the Vikings need a QB at No. 8.

Hey, Mary Kay: Hi, I'm Noah, a 12 year old, diehard Browns fan. According to multiple sources, the Cleveland Browns are in love with Derek Carr. I think he would be a reach at No. 4 overall. Do you think they would trade back a couple spots to acquire additional picks? Personally, I would rather see them pick a playmaker like Sammy Watkins at No. 4. This would give the Browns a deadly passing attack that already includes Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron.

- Noah C, Cleveland, Ohio

Hey Noah: At the rate you're going, you'll be running the Browns someday! Yes, I like the idea of the Browns taking Watkins at No. 4 and pairing him with Josh Gordon. The Browns need multiple offensive weapons, and also an insurance policy in the event Gordon has another misstep. Watkins and Gordon would be virtually unstoppable. That would give them a chance to draft Carr or another quarterback at No. 26, or earlier in the first round if they trade back up. They've looked at dozens, including Eastern Illinois' Jimmy Garoppolo and Pitt's Tom Savage, so they have plenty of options.

Hey Mary Kay: Ask yourself, honestly, what have Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, or Mitchell Schwartz done to make the Browns winners? Thomas and Mack are certainly great, but I think it's clear that having a great offensive line has little correlation to team success. They need the best QB on their board, or the best WR, or the best LB. If they draft Jake Matthews at four we can expect another 7-10 years of cruddy football because it will be obvious Ray Farmer won't have what it takes, and thus ruined this most critical draft. That all being said, could you please tell Farmer NOT to draft an OT at #4 overall?!

- Kyle Chormanski, Augusta, Ga.

Hey Kyle: Yes, I will tell him. We have him Monday at 11:30 a.m. for a pre-draft press conference, and I will be sure to pass it along. I have to agree with you. I'd rather see them take a quarterback at No. 4 than a left tackle, but I wouldn't be surprised if they draft Auburn's Greg Robinson. Early on in the draft process, he was high on their list and a realistic possibility.

Hey, Mary Kay: What are your thoughts on taking a QB with the No. 35 pick versus the No. 26? If Texans take a QB with the No. 1 it would seem pretty safe on waiting till the 35.

- Jeffrey Calhoun, San Antonio, Texas

Hey Jeffrey: A quarterback's chances of success decline sharply after the first round, but I don't think there's all that much difference this year in taking a quarterback at No. 26 vs. taking one at No. 35. All of the teams picking after the Browns' No. 26 are set at quarterback for the foreseeable future: New Orleans (Drew Brees), Carolina (Cam Newton), New England (Tom Brady), San Francisco (Colin Kaepernick), Denver (Peyton Manning) and Seattle (Russell Wilson). The only other team needing a quarterback before the Browns pick again at 35 is Houston at No. 33.

Hey, Mary Kay: I'm hearing now that there's a good chance the Browns will draft an offensive lineman with their first pick (No. 4). Everyone agrees that we need to get an impact player with that pick (which isn't an OT). Do you see any of our current players stepping up to start, any 'diamonds in the rough' (Pinkston, Faulk, Fragel)?

- Bob Ruple, Newbury, Ohio

Hey Bob: I do think there's a chance the Browns will draft an offensive linemen with the fourth pick such as Auburn tackle Greg Robinson, but I'd rather see them draft a quarterback, Sammy Watkins or a pass-rusher such as Jadeveon Clowney or Khalil Mack there. I think they can find good offensive linemen in the third and fourth rounds.

Hey, Mary Kay: Why don't the Browns draft (Oklahoma State cornerback) Justin Gilbert at No. 4? He is a top 10 pick, the Browns need a corner, plus he returns kicks.Look at the number of games blown in fourth quarter because the defense could not hold a lead. New England And Jacksonville are examples.

- Joe Smith, Louisville, Ohio

Hey Joe: I agree that the Browns need a shutdown cornerback out of this draft, but I think No. 4 is a little too high Gilbert. He'd be a great choice at No. 26 if he lasts that long, but some experts have him going in the top 15. However, the Browns surrendered 29 TD passes last season, which was tied for seventh-most in the NFL, and they collapsed at the end of halves and games because of coverage issues. More pressure will help, but they do need another good corner.

Hey Mary Kay: Do you think the Browns will really try to trade for Washington's backup quarterback Kirk Cousins during draft weekend?

-- Scott W., Palm Desert, Cal.

Hey Scott: I think there's a chance it will at least come up. It all depends on who the Browns draft at quarterback and what that might mean for Brian Hoyer. Cousins knows Kyle Shanahan's West Coast system and Shanahan likes him. Besides, the Redskins can afford to part with him now that they have Colt McCoy.


(end)

I know Mary Kay is not a favorite here, but as far as the Browns' reporters from the PD go, I still like her over Bud Shaw... I just don't care for his whole writing style at all.

So Bridgewater is now not even an option? Wow!

The way the dolts are grading Teddy he might get the Rogers treatment. I would not be surprised if we went Watkins/Mack/Robinson at 4 and still be able to trade up to early 20s to take Teddy. The same thing that dropped other guys like Arod, Brees,etc is happening to him. He isn't the biggest guy and has a funny release...lol...there is a reason these dopes miss all the time. Watch a guy like Carr who looks the part but has bust written all over him go ahead of Teddy. I like Bortles, but the dolts biggest compliment of him is his "size" lol.

I know we won't draft him at 4, but I do think he is the one out of the big 3 that will fall, and maybe (for the love of all that is holy) the Browns get lucky and get one of the so called elite guys at 4 and still wind up with Teddy......one can dream.

I got a bad feeling that we are going to blow it again and take yet another receiver and miss out on our QB.

I am praying I am wrong.

I guess it is just classical conditioning.

I've given up on these guys taking one at 4. I bet we draft Robinson lot of Smoke there. I guess I am praying that in spite of themselves the get the franchise QB anyway. What scares me the most is we waste a high second on the Grapapolo kid or Carr at 26. If we aren't going Teddy, JFM, or Bortles I would just assume they didn't draft one until round 5 or later.

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They'll trade down. SMH. Draft pick guy will be thrilled though, good for him.

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It's funny. I think if they do any trading, it may be to trade up from #26 if they don't take a QB at #4.

A part of me thinks the FO isn't completely sold on Gordon because of his past issues...which I understand, one more mishap and he's done for one year. So you mitigate your risk with by drafting another #1WR prospect and hope for the best case situation that you have a Roddy White/ Julio Jones or a Marvin Harrison/ Reggie Wayne combo-- but yes, they also had a QB.

If they take someone like Watkins, don't be surprised if they jump back in to grab a QB later. #20 with Arizona may be place where a QB could be taken, but the way the trades have been since the new CBA, there has been much more activity. As early as the #3 pick last year....which leads me to say:

If the Browns like one of the QBs enough that they feel could be a game changer, then just go ahead and draft him. Don't be cute, no matter if people think it's the proverbial "reach". Get the guy you want, don't look back, then focus on the next draft pick.