|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,480
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,480 |
aren't those the only all-pro safeties on the market?
one that we drafted, and one we are wishing with butterflies and rainbows that wants to even come here.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
Quote:
jc.
so if ward goes somewhere else, and Byrd doesn't come here...
then what?
I didn't realize that there are only two safeties in the NFL. 
you didn't get the memo?
If we sign neither we have to play next year with only one safety 
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
Quote:
What we can't have happen is for us to lose all three...Mack, Byrd, and Ward. There is still a possibility of this happening, but it appears that we will have Mack's services, which is huge. Mack and Hoyer probably managed to develop some report last year, and it's safe to say that both Hoyer and Mack are both intelligent players. Having Mack is huge, BUT we still need Byrd or Ward in my opinion.
I agree with your assessment of Ward. I really like Ward but if he doesn't fit what the team wants to do then let him sign elsewhere. All is not lost if we miss out on Ward and Byrd. There are still some quality safeties available. I actually would prefer we save some money and sign Bethea or Delmas to pair with Gibson. With Pettines' Baltimore ties I wouldn't be upset if we signed Reed to a 1 year deal. We could also look at drafting Ha Ha Clinton Dix. I would throw the money at Shields or another CB, and sign either a OT and move Scwartz to G or sign a G. Asamoah would be a nice pick up for us at G. Then we could focus the top of the draft on upgrading the offense and drafting depth late.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229 |
Quote:
Quote:
Ward? I have been telling you guys all year that he is vastly overrated. Let him hit the market. No big loss.
He is not overrated. There are just better options (Byrd) available. If we lose Ward and don't get Byrd it is a huge loss.
there is one option that may be better than Ward available. There will be a good chance that many teams will go after him and that will reduce our chances to get either of the two.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
Again, there are other good safeties available. I am surprised we haven't had Delmas in for a visit yet. We had him in last offseason and I think he would be a good fit for what we are looking for in a Safety.
I am really hoping Byrd signs with his father in Tampa and Goldson then becomes available.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Quote:
Again, there are other good safeties available. I am surprised we haven't had Delmas in for a visit yet. We had him in last offseason and I think he would be a good fit for what we are looking for in a Safety.
I am really hoping Byrd signs with his father in Tampa and Goldson then becomes available.
We can't have anyone in for visits yet, unless they are street free agents. (not currently under contract through the end of the league year) Once free agency opens on the 10th or 11th, then we can start entertaining free agents, but not till then. (unless they were cut by their last team, and are a street free agent)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
Delmas was released. He has already visited NO and Pitt.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Quote:
Delmas was released. He has already visited NO and Pitt.
My mistake. Sorry about that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
Quote:
Quote:
Delmas was released. He has already visited NO and Pitt.
My mistake. Sorry about that.
No worries. I realize not everyone is stalking errr I mean following Delmas like I am. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Delmas is a guy I would only take on a one year contract. He did play all 16 games last season, so that might earn him more than one year. Although it is odd that a team like the Lions, who had one of the worst pass defenses in the league, would release Delmas.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
Why would you only sign Delmas to a 1 yr deal? Are you against signing Byrd and Ward also? Both of them have had injury concerns. Delmas has missed more but would cost less than either Byrd or Ward.
Again I said if we were to miss out on either of the aforementioned players all would not be lost. I was trying to add other options to the impending sky is falling crowd if we do miss out on the top 2 options.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I would be fine with Delmas if we ended up with neither Ward nor Byrd. Players with Delmas' injury history and talent level shouldn't get more than one year. He might get more than one year, I just wouldn't be the team to give it to him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
Yeah I see why a team would be concerned about his injury problems. I just don't think it would be my deciding factor. If Delmas didn't have those concerns I think he would be right there with Byrd and Ward.
As for your previous post regarding why Detroit released him despite having a need, I think it was just a cap thing. Detroit has 51 mil tied up in 3 players and saved 6 mil by cutting Delmas. Detroit also signed Glover Quin to a 5 year 23.5 million dollar contract last offseason so Delmas was expendable. Lions have stated they would like to resign Delmas.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Delmas just isn't good even without the injuries, I'd pass.
If we let Ward walk, we have to sign Byrd. Everything else would be a downgrade in terms of overall impact.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Wish we could keep Ward and sign Byrd.. but of course our cheap a$$es wouldn't make that happen...
we'd rather overpay for someone elses less talent like Paul Kruger instead..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Delmas just isn't good even without the injuries, I'd pass.
sadly, Delmas was very good before the injuries. the player who wore his jersey in Detroit last year was not the Louis Delmas that came into the NFL as a rookie.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
FWIW, "53. Louis Delmas, Safety - Coming off his best year but there is a reason why Detroit released him. Constant battles with injury and some sub-standard play make him a risk vs reward type pick up." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/03/pffs-2014-top-75-free-agents/PFF has him rated slightly above AVG for last season after multiple sub-standard seasons. He's inconsistent and unreliable. If he takes a 1-2year for 1-1.5mil/year contract, then maybe gamble on him as a 3rd S who can back up both spots....otherwise I'd stay away and rather draft one in the mid rounds: Brooks, Ward etc. There are some SS/FS tweeners like him
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
I would warm up to the notion we could sign neither. There are a lot of teams with cap space and a need at S. Denver comes to mind, SF if Whittner walks, Minnesota.
I think its good to have a plan B or C in place. I think way too many people are putting too much stock in the Pettine connection. Byrd has been in a similar situation (losing franchise) in Buffalo. Whose to say he doesn't want to go to a winner or play with his college coach in Philly.
Im not saying Delmas is an elite S or the best option, but he may be our best option. I would take Delmas over an unproven Slaughter and I think, while having similar skill sets, is better than Gibson. I also think Bethea would be a good pick up if/when we miss out on Ward and Byrd.
I also wouldn't dramatically overpay for a S. JMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Good post, I'm not sold on Byrd coming here either. 31 teams out there, Pettine was only with him last year. And we have no idea if Farmer wants to pay him.
I think we needed depth at safety to begin with. If we lose Ward, I say we add a veteran and draft another.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,175
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,175 |
j/c
I always thought Rex and Pettine liked man coverage CB types. Wouldn't it seem more logical Pettine tries getting a CB? Besides isn't their excess CB available in FA this year? If I'm not mistaken, we will see a supply and demand issue here. What cost 10 million last year can be had for 8 million this year. I think Pettine will go after a CB rather than Byrd.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Quote:
Whose to say he doesn't want to go to a winner or play with his college coach in Philly.
...or with his father in Tampa Bay (Bucs' CB coach).
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
j/c...
I love how a lot of Browns fans just assume the worst. I know I know its the conditioning we have received in the past.
We don't sign either?
Well Ward is going to test the market that we know. He wants top safety money - but he is oft injured and still has to prove his Pro-Bowl worth as a ball hawk for the passing game.
I see only Horton's team where he might take less than what we offer.
But I got a feeling he might be coming back to us and the offer we did make would look pretty good to him.
Byrd...I thought I was watching Broke Back Mountain when the relationship of Byrd and Pettine was described - by Buffalo writers. Many references like "LOVE" and others similar remarks came to pass. I think we will make it a priority in FA to sign him - if he hits the market. Tampa would be a place to go if nobody wants him...but for them to go after him like we would does not fill their needs.
FA is big time motivated by NEED. Tampa has a lot of money spent on their DB situation. Their needs go in another direction.
Safety is not a big time rare position. We got the Cap and extra motivation to get him as a veteran leader for the New D that will be put in this year.
Odds are we will sign him.
Good possibility we will renew negotiations with Ward. If we do not sign him more than likely we just didn't value him enough to Seal the Deal...not the other way around.
jmho - we are about to turn this baby around. I'll be so happy to get this Monkey off of our back of depression and negativity!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
but he is oft injured
Of a possible 64 games he could have started, he missed 10.
8- of those were due to one injury in one year.
So, I don't think I'd call that oft injured..
2010: 16 Games
2011: 8 Games
2012: 14 Games
2013: 16 Games..
FYI, Byrd missed 7 games in 5 years. So he's a little better.
Quote:
jmho - we are about to turn this baby around. I'll be so happy to get this Monkey off of our back of depression and negativity!
Sing it out Brother,, Sing it out loud 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
FYI, Byrd missed 7 games in 5 years. So he's a little better.
though, it should be noted that Byrd missed 5 of those games last year and it was with plantar fascitis which can be a recurring injury (though not always - don't have the medical reports, so we cannot know the likelihood).
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Indeed it is, matter of fact, I'd freaking LOVE it... this would be extremely awesome in more ways than one bringing in Champ! I'd be 100% all for it (as FS).
The knowledge he could share with Haden, Skrine and etc would be like gold to those youngings...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
jc..
Champ Bailey, 15yrs in the NFL switching to FS, playing for Pettine/O'Neil?...I don't see it happening...could be wrong but I doubt he is what Pettine and O'Neil are looking for at that position.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Long term "looking for" obviously no.
Able to play his defense as in a zone reading the QB n WRs and ball hawking in the air game? Might be just the right thing???
Will we spend on Byrd and Bailey...depends what Bailey gets from other teams probably not a first day offer from us. 2nd tier maybe.
Draft and Gipson will be depth and training for a starting spot???
Never say never
Last year we didn't spend diddly for depth...I expect a little more WIN NOW investing we will not rely on UDFA rookie depth.
Jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
I thought common knowledge says his best days went away?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Absolutely, they have. If they hadn't, he wouldn't be willing to switch to Safety, much less let it be publicly known this early.
He still played well on a team that went to the Super Bowl, and he wasn't a liability (that I can recall).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 250
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 250 |
We should consider moving him to ILB due to run stopper and hit ability,then his cover skills would be more than adequate covering aTE or crossing RB. Think he would then be able to be an enforcer at LOS. We save one of our core players and fill an opening needing to be filled
I bleed Seal Brown,Burnt Oranage and White w/Chrome. It's a proud honored birthright and family tradition.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Are you talking about moving Ward to inside linebacker?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Are you talking about moving Ward to inside linebacker?
That's exactly what he said
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Quote:
Quote:
Are you talking about moving Ward to inside linebacker?
That's exactly what he said
He played ILB basically the last two season games. They had Poyer and Gipson in the game and he was at LBer quite a bit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Are you talking about moving Ward to inside linebacker?
That's exactly what he said
He played ILB basically the last two season games. They had Poyer and Gipson in the game and he was at LBer quite a bit.
So do you think it's a possibility? or just a pipe dream
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Are you talking about moving Ward to inside linebacker?
That's exactly what he said
He played ILB basically the last two season games. They had Poyer and Gipson in the game and he was at LBer quite a bit.
So do you think it's a possibility? or just a pipe dream
People said DQ was too light to be a force at ILB at 240.. isn't Ward like 210? Ward would get mauled if he was being blocked by OGs all day.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Serious question...would the OG be able to get ahold of him? I don't necessarily like the idea of him playing ILB, but Ward's speed and athleticism I feel would allow him to get around blockers more often than your common ILBer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,232
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,232 |
From what I remember Ward played like more of a "5th LB'er" type role.
He's simply too light in the pants to be played as a LB'er on a regular basis as one of a four LB'er crew. If it were attempted, I can never recall it ever have being attempted before.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Serious question...would the OG be able to get ahold of him? I don't necessarily like the idea of him playing ILB, but Ward's speed and athleticism I feel would allow him to get around blockers more often than your common ILBer
Ward is a successful run stopper when DL and LBs eat up blocks and he can find seams and get to the RB..
To answer your question, no I don't think his speed and athleticism is going to be very useful in confined spaces and congested areas just off the LOS... which is where most ILBs are expected to make plays... out in open space, yes he might have an advantage over the OG but then you are already talking about being 5-10 yards downfield... and I think you underestimate the athleticism of today's OG in being able to get in his way and create a crease for his RB.. The OG doesn't have to pancake Ward, he just has to be an obstruction in the open field.. make Ward go around him, that's all the time a good RB needs to make a cut and be gone.
Also, I will defer to the knowledge of DCs far and wide.. if a speedy 210 lb ILB has an advantage, why isn't anybody using one?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum T.J. Ward
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
