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He's simply too light in the pants to be played as a LB'er on a regular basis as one of a four LB'er crew.
This about sums it up. Roberston is 234 and many thought he was too small and etc. DQ was 240. Ward is at 200lbs.
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Also, I will defer to the knowledge of DCs far and wide.. if a speedy 210 lb ILB has an advantage, why isn't anybody using one?
Before Brees/Vick/Wallace/Wison it had really been 20+ years since we had any starting QB's 6' and under. I think Flutie was the last one of significance.
Now it's ok to be 6' or shorter and still be drafted in the first round. (a la Johnny Football)
Things change all the time in the NFL. All it takes is one good player to change the direction/perception of what people think.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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And that player is probably not someone who has been in the league for several years at a different position.
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Detroit Lions inquire about Browns' T.J. Ward The Detroit Lions are dipping a paw into the waters of free agency to test the temperature of the defensive backfield market. NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Saturday that the Lions inquired about Cleveland Browns safety T.J. Ward. The three-day negotiating period for teams opened Saturday, meaning Detroit now can discuss possible contracts with agents of players, like Ward, who will become free agents on Tuesday. Ward makes sense for the Lions, who released hard-hitting safety Louis Delmas. While Detroit has expressed interest in bringing back Delmas at a cheaper rate, the safety has more that a few suitors. Ward could slide into what was Delmas' role in Detroit, alongside 2013 signee Glover Quin (five-year, $25 million contract). Ward is better at filling the box against the run than in coverage. Pro Football Focus graded him its third overall safety for 2013. However, the 27-year-old can be exposed in the passing game. As the second-rated safety on the market, the question is what will be Ward's price tag once free agency opens. The Lions don't currently have a ton of cap space, but they hope to create some by extending Ndamukong Suh and lowering his $22 million cap number. Detroit also reportedly has interest in cornerback Alterraun Verner as the team tries to upgrade its mediocre secondary. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000332055/article/detroit-lions-inquire-about-browns-tj-ward
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TJ draws interest from 11 teams: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-report Quote:
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Pro Bowl safety T.J. Ward has drawn interest from about 11 teams during the free agency negotiating period, and the Browns are still in the mix, a league source told cleveland.com.
The Browns began talking to Ward's agent, Josh Arnold, at the NFL Scouting Combine last month, and have engaged in talks since then.
One team expected to pursue Ward is Denver, according to Mike Klis of the Denver Post. Former Browns general manager Tom Heckert, who drafted Ward in the second round of the 2010 draft out of Oregon, is the Broncos Director of Pro Personnel.
Another team that's checked into Ward is the Lions, according to nfl.com. They released safety Louis Delmas and are looking to replace him.
However, they have only about $10 million in cap space, and would probably need to restructure Ndamukong Suh ($22 million cap number for 2014) to lure Ward. The Eagles might also be on the list because Ward played for coach Chip Kelly at Oregon.
Of the 11 teams, interest is strong from at least several. Others might not be able to meet his asking price -- which could be upwards of $8 million a year.
Ward, 27, is receiving plenty of action because he's so highly rated. Profootballfocus.com has him ranked as the third best safety in the NFL behind New England's Devin McCourty and the New York Giants' Will Hill.
Ward is also the site's top-ranked safety against the run, and 12th-best in coverage. For comparison's sake, Bills free safety Jairus Byrd, who's believed to be on the Browns radar, is the eighth best safety in the NFL according to profootballfocus.com. As of Sunday afternoon, the Brown hadn't yet inquired about Byrd.
Ward's agent released a statement last week saying that he had several talks with the Browns about an extension for Ward, but had been unable to reach an agreement.
"Detailed contract discussions with multiple front office executives of the Browns began last month at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis,'' he said in the statement. "Since then several conversations have occurred in an attempt to secure a new deal for T.J., but we've yet to agree on terms that work for both sides.
“T.J. has proven himself to be not only an elite NFL safety, but an elite and top NFL player league wide which is evidenced by him earning both All-Pro and Pro Bowl recognition this past season. With the passing of the franchise/transition tag deadline, we remain open to further discussions with the Browns in working towards a long-term deal and look forward to that possibility.
"However, if things don't work out in Cleveland, we likewise look forward to the opportunity that can coincide with becoming an unrestricted free agent. Several factors will be considered before making a final decision that will provide best for T.J. and his family.”
Ward told foxsports.com last month that he wanted to return to Cleveland.
"That's definitely my goal," he said. "I want to stay there. I've been there from when things were rough and for me to be a part of it when we get on top would be something very special. Hopefully, we can raise that Lombardi Trophy. It would be great for Cleveland. It would be great to bring a championship there and for me to say that I was there when we weren't good and now we're on top would be great.
But he also sounded resigned to the fact that he might be gone.
"I'm definitely looking for the situation where it can provide for me best,'' Ward said. "If not (Cleveland), I'll have to be somewhere else.''
As of mid-February, he hadn't yet met coach Mike Pettine, but heard good things about him from Byrd, Ward's former Oregon teammate "I heard from Byrd that Pettine's a good coach. He has a great scheme and he allows players to make plays. He tailors the defense to what people do best. If I'm back I'm sure it'll be a pleasure to play for him.''
If the Browns don't re-sign Ward, they'll most likely either look for another strong safety in free agency or draft one.
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Browns still interested if we can pay pennies.. smh.
#paydaman
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T.J. has proven himself to be not only an elite NFL safety, but an elite and top NFL player league wide
I disagree. He's above average in run coverage, but is hardly Elite in any standings...
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If the Browns don't re-sign Ward, they'll most likely either look for another strong safety in free agency or draft one.
Or Pettines Defense doesn't really call for a "Strong" Safety, and we'll move towards a dual coverage safety system...
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For comparison's sake, Bills free safety Jairus Byrd, who's believed to be on the Browns radar, is the eighth best safety in the NFL according to profootballfocus.com
I'd love to see how they came up with the fact that Ward is better than Byrd, not only better, but 5 spots above him in "rankings"
Please tell me what 7 Safeties are better than Byrd, I'm not saying he's the best in the NFL, but that seems off...
And is also ignoring the fact that Byrd and Ward play too completely different positions/styles...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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TJ draws interest from 11 teams
Overrated.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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i'm still trying to figure out how people on this board think an all-pro safety is overrated.
i guess i'm still the minority. you guys wanna replace an all-pro SS with an all-pro FS.
instead of replacing a average FS(gibspon) with a all-pro FS(byrd).
yet chances are we miss out on both, and then what? we get some "ok" safeties, but it still be a downgrade to what we had.
watch, then people are going to complain this season about us sucking against the run, and then be like "dang, we should've kept ward".
if ward doesn't re sign with us, i absolutely hope he goes to the lions, at least they actually compete for playoff spots.
its like....we wanna keep a all-pro center that clearly doesn't wanna be here anymore, yet we don't wanna pay an all-pro safety that WANTS to be here.
i simply don't understand it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Quote:
TJ draws interest from 11 teams
Overrated.
11 teams interested... LOL Not bad for a guy that isn't/wasn't believed to be elite here in Cleveland.
my guess of course is that with that much competition, he's gone. I sure hope the have a plan to replace him.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Swish - Memphis was of course being sarcastic.
From all that I read we are and have been negotiating with Ward's agent.
So I am not sure how out of System Ward is if we have been seriously trying to sign him. If we do not its cause a team offered him more than we were thinking of.
It would have been nice if we did sign Ward last season before the accolades of being a Pro-Bowl safety and all upping his ante with the NFL.
Oh the other thing YOU GUYS...us guys really don't have diddly with the Get or don't get. We want...doesn't matter what we want. I think Pettine wants Ward or else we wouldn't be negotiating. Unfortunately we lost all leverage letting it get this far and firing the Regime after a year. Mack, Ward and DQ were in get me out of here mode. Pettine and staff might have righted the ship a bit with Mack with his visit.
But its hard to convince a guy who has a young career and this is his 4th HC, 5th OC and the only stability Warhop is gone.
Its not an easy task but Pettine has to pull everyone back together and on track for success as a goal. He seems like the right guy to do so. Why I was cool on going for McDaniel.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
i'm still trying to figure out how people on this board think an all-pro safety is overrated.
i guess i'm still the minority. you guys wanna replace an all-pro SS with an all-pro FS.
instead of replacing a average FS(gibspon) with a all-pro FS(byrd).
yet chances are we miss out on both, and then what? we get some "ok" safeties, but it still be a downgrade to what we had.
watch, then people are going to complain this season about us sucking against the run, and then be like "dang, we should've kept ward".
if ward doesn't re sign with us, i absolutely hope he goes to the lions, at least they actually compete for playoff spots.
its like....we wanna keep a all-pro center that clearly doesn't wanna be here anymore, yet we don't wanna pay an all-pro safety that WANTS to be here.
i simply don't understand it.
The problem is that we no longer run a Strong/Free Safety defense. Pettine runs a defense where the Safeties play left/right. (similar to a zone CB, kinda, in a way, but not completely) In Pettine's defense, the Safety has to be able to play from short to deep on half the field, rather than across the field either short or deep, and pick up receivers in his zone. He doesn't play up in the box. It is a totally different defense, and one which Ward may not be particularly well suited for. I can't speak for the coach, but it seems like they may have made him an offer, but not a huge offer, because they might want to give him a chance here, but do no want to hamstring themselves in the future if Ward can't play this style of D.
That is Just My Humble Assumption, based upon what I know of Pettine and the defense he runs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Facebook Browns Country: Quote:
The Browns are reportedly "very serious" about singing safety Donte Whitner, if the Browns sign Whitner it is believed that TJ Ward will not be back. ‪#‎CLE‬
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Whitner seems like an older, cheaper version of T.J. Ward. If used properly I think he can be good. But he cannot cover anyone.
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He's not going to be significantly cheaper imho
He will get 6-8mil annually and around 20mil guaranteed. It's his last big contract and I hate being the team that signs those kind of players....they often let it slide (---> Bess)
The true difference to Ward is that he's a more balanced S, more of a SS/FS mix Pettine seems to prefer.
If Whitner can play like last season for 2-3 more years, I'd be ok with it depending on what we do the rest of the offseason, but I don't see many scenarios where it's more valuable to have him rather than Ward since he won't come much cheaper.
Oh well, as long as we don't waste a mid round pick to replace Ward, that's my worst case scenario.
#gmstrong
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He will get 6-8mil annually and around 20mil guaranteed. It's his last big contract and I hate being the team that signs those kind of players....they often let it slide (---> Bess)
If he wants that much I don't see us signing him. I think we could have Ward for the same price.
I am not prepared for the amount of money guys are going to get this off-season. It is going to be crazy.
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When the cap keeps rising, so do the salaries.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Be prepared   If Shields almost nets 10mil/season, DQ over 5 and a freaking punter 3mil, then 6-8mil for a good S is actually worth it. Kruger got 8mil last FA from us. Is he a better OLB than Whitner a S? I'd say Whitner has had the better career so far or it's close at least. If we sign Whitner over Ward, it won't be about money. The $ difference will be insignificant imho. Maybe scheme, maybe locker room/vet leadership/culture change stuff (been there, done that)
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On Whittner - he might be on a list that we are speaking to. But I think we do not wish to be in a position of NEED going into the draft.
If we cannot sign either Ward or Byrd...Whitner might be a plan C.
got to dot all the i's and cross all the t's
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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That sounds like a logical conclusion. That's the thing about the new coaching staff and FO. We don't have any track record of which to truly draw conclusions from. It's anyone's guess as to what they will do or which direction they may head in the FA signing period or the draft for that matter.
All we can do at this point is look to the most logical conclusions and watch it all unfold. The problem with what's going on right now, is the rumor mill of who is and isn't talking to who. Whether we have or have not actually talked to Byrd's agent is anyone's guess and I don't actually trust that the rumor mill has any way of knowing one way or the other.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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One thing about Farmer and Pettine...they got an UNPRECEDENTED task of having to fight the travesty of ONE n DONE of last season. That put us in a framework like no other that we got to pull ourselves out of the hole!
After surviving this 2014 season and NO FIRINGS....we will start to turn this around. But this season on the signing of our own players and FA players. Its a big big negative that we have to over come. More than any other year before.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Browns Country: Quote:
Dustin Fox from 92.3 the Fan is reporting "Based on a source close to Donte Whitner, He is likely headed to the Browns when the signing period begins."
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I wanted Whitner when San Fran signed him. Not sure if he's still at that level, but I'll gladly take him if we lose Ward/Byrd.
Good point on NEED and the draft. John Elway made some great remarks on that. He said he tries everything to have a serviceable guy at every spot before the draft. Keeps them from making desperation picks and even worse, trading on draft day for need. Plus, you don't hand starting spots to rookies in May.
I don't think we've had that ^^^ approach here for years. It would be nice.
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Good maybe this is where he wishes to end his career. Also probably would be his dream to be on the team that turns it around for the NEW BROWNS!
For us it takes the word "NEED" out - We still will talk with Ward and Byrd but we will not be going at it close to the realm of Desperate which most good agents smell that like blood in the water for Sharks!
I wish to be good-great at these positions:
QB, Left Tackle, Edge Pass Rusher (2+) Cover CB (2+)
Then I would get Solid at OL, Up the Middle, WR/RB, TE
If we miss out on having one of the best Safety tandems (Byrd/Ward) but costing us 16 mil a year for 5 years??? So be it. Don't forget the progress from Gipson...he ain't going to get worse he will get better. Also we'll find out if the kid Slaughter has game he should be healed. And an entire draft ahead of us.
jmho
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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FWIW, according to PFF, like Byrd and Ward, he graded out positively both vs the run and pass in 2013. He was "in between" those two in both run/pass, meaning he was the most balanced S in this FA (better vs the run than Byrd, but not as good as Ward and better vs the pass as Ward, though not as good as Byrd)
I wasn't sure how honest the talk about "interchangable safety" was since pretty much every coach seems to say it, also Horton, but at the end Gipson/Ward played classic FS/FS roles, but if they sign Whitner it seems that is the kind of S they want
#gmstrong
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If we don't bring back Ward getting Whitner would be a good trade off. I'd love to keep Ward though if possible.
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oh boy... I hope we're not basing our Free Agent pickups off of Pro Football Focus.
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Hey, Farmer has been labled a "metrics" and numbers guy iirc, but so were LomBanner, so who the hell knows, but I think any D-player they're looking at will be from Pettine's wishlist too
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I thought Farmer was labeled as the exact opposite of a metrics guy....maybe I'm mistaken.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I just have this baaaaad feeling about all this.. I believe letting Boss Ward go is a huge mistake
SaintDawg™
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Quote:
I thought Farmer was labeled as the exact opposite of a metrics guy....maybe I'm mistaken.
I thought that he wasn't a huge metrics guy, but said that he won't rule out any tool for evaluating a player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I just have this baaaaad feeling about all this.. I believe letting Boss Ward go is a huge mistake
In this triangle of safeties being discussed (Ward, Byrd, and Whitner)..if all we end up with is Whitner, I'll be upset.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
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I just have this baaaaad feeling about all this.. I believe letting Boss Ward go is a huge mistake
In this triangle of safeties being discussed (Ward, Byrd, and Whitner)..if all we end up with is Whitner, I'll be upset.
Why?
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Quote:
I just have this baaaaad feeling about all this.. I believe letting Boss Ward go is a huge mistake
In this triangle of safeties being discussed (Ward, Byrd, and Whitner)..if all we end up with is Whitner, I'll be upset.
Yes. It seems that if we are signing Whitner then Ward is as good as gone. And if we are going into the season with Whitner and Gibson at safety that is a major downgrade.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I just have this baaaaad feeling about all this.. I believe letting Boss Ward go is a huge mistake
In this triangle of safeties being discussed (Ward, Byrd, and Whitner)..if all we end up with is Whitner, I'll be upset.
Yes. It seems that if we are signing Whitner then Ward is as good as gone. And if we are going into the season with Whitner and Gibson at safety that is a major downgrade.
I don't see that as a major downgrade. I don't see Whitner and Ward having a big gap in talent. I view Ward as very one dimensional.
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Yes. It seems that if we are signing Whitner then Ward is as good as gone. And if we are going into the season with Whitner and Gibson at safety that is a major downgrade.
I'm not so sure. IF as has been suggested we need someone to play half the field at S and not the prototypical SS/FS positions, Whitner could fit that scheme much better than Ward.
Sometimes the best player is dependent on what you want that player to do. You certainly can't count on Ward in coverage. I've seen players switch schemes and either be much better or much worse.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yes. It seems that if we are signing Whitner then Ward is as good as gone. And if we are going into the season with Whitner and Gibson at safety that is a major downgrade.
I'm not so sure. IF as has been suggested we need someone to play half the field at S and not the prototypical SS/FS positions, Whitner could fit that scheme much better than Ward.
Sometimes the best player is dependent on what you want that player to do. You certainly can't count on Ward in coverage. I've seen players switch schemes and either be much better or much worse.
I agree. I keep bringing this up but at the end of last season (probably due to injury) they had ward playing linebacker with Poyer and Gipson in the game at safety.
You want a 50 million dollar safety who's more linebacker than safety? Yeah I dunno about that.
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Ward is obviously better at stopping the run than he is in coverage. But he is not bad in coverage. He is among the best run stuffing safeties in the league, while Whitner is also good at this he is not as good and is worse in coverage.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum T.J. Ward
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