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And there we go................
The truth does not matter. It's about personalities.
Inane arguments, my butt. I gave valid reasons for my opinions. You guys don't agree and resort to your typical mob mentality BS. You are proven wrong and instead of owning up, you go to the character attack.
Gutless.
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I keep reading that Ward wanted out. Did I miss something? Because, before today.........I kept reading on how he wanted to be here.
Swish was bad-mouthing Mack yesterday for wanting out and praising Ward for wanting to be here.
So, if I missed an article stating that Ward wanted out.........I will apologize. However, right now it sounds like an excuse as to why we did not keep Ward.
You aren't one of those guys like Swish, Super, Daman, DJ. cfrs, Memphis, and Super who can't admit that perhaps I was right and didn't deserve all the criticism they gave me...........are you?
the only critism we ever gave you was calling ward overrated. never have i criticized you for anything else about ward. once again, stop lying.
if ward took less money to go somewhere else, then yes, he needed to go. i put him and DQ in the same boat as mack. why keep players that don't want to be here.
but don't act like we are somehow coming out on top.
DQ and Ward are taking less money, but in turn are going to playoff/SB contenders. and they are 100 percent going to start day one on those squads.
we are overpaying FA's from different playoff contending squads to play for this trash team. you don't have to agree with me on who is more talented than who, but if you can't see the SIGNING points i'm making, than i dunno what to tell you.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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As for Ward...we either didn't think very highly of him or vice versa. I would've paid $5.5/year for him, but if he didn't want to be here, I can't really complain.
Pretty much agree here, like I have said before we paid $7 mil to get two players that wanted to be here for two players that did not, overpay - probably but bad teams have too that is the nature of the beast.
That said I still like Dansby over DQ, Ward vs Whitner... meh seems like a wash on talent Whitners skills may fit our new D better, least that's my hope.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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the only critism we ever gave you was calling ward overrated
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We gave Whit more money.
That IS the argument.
Do you have the details yet, because I don't. We only know that Ward got 14mil guaranteed.
Also, the argument DOES go both ways. If Whitner was so much better, why did they let him go and sign an older and lesser Bethea for the same money? Why didn't the Broncos sign Whitner?
At the end, those guys probably got pretty similar deals (I suspect cut-able two last seasons for Whitner, same with Dansby probably) and it may have come down to scheme preference and the player's desire to play for a certain team over another...
to act as if it his contract proves Ward is overrated is laughable. 14mil guaranteed and 5-6mil/season is significant money at S. Dansby got that much and he was the undisputed no1 ILB on the market
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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J/c
Hey guys, I saw what was starting and just skipped ahead. I think you all would do us a favor if you would just state who ended up with the least room in the front of their pants and have the thread locked. Thanks.
#gmstrong
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I would say the defensive moves of cutting DQ and letting Ward leave in free agency. Then replacing them with Whitner and Dansby is the new staffs way of saying after reviewing film the weakness in the 3-4 defense was coverage of the tight end and running backs.
These moves scream to fixing a problem more than anything else. I see both DQ and Ward as productive players but the new staff seen limitations in the defense and went out to fix the issue.
I wish DQ and Ward well. I really liked both players but I hope Whitner and Dansby take the D to another level. Now if they can get a shut down corner opposite Haden and thurn the dawgs loose at the line of scrimmage.
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I would say the defensive moves of cutting DQ and letting Ward leave in free agency. Then replacing them with Whitner and Dansby is the new staffs way of saying after reviewing film the weakness in the 3-4 defense was coverage of the tight end and running backs.
These moves scream to fixing a problem more than anything else. I see both DQ and Ward as productive players but the new staff seen limitations in the defense and went out to fix the issue.
I wish DQ and Ward well. I really liked both players but I hope Whitner and Dansby take the D to another level. Now if they can get a shut down corner opposite Haden and thurn the dawgs loose at the line of scrimmage.
I would tend to agree with that..and add what type of players MP wants in his system..more coverage, more physicality.
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No, and I will apologize if the details contradict what was earlier reported in this thread.
It's amazing that some people can actually admit to being wrong. It's also amazing that some people can actually give others credit for things. It's amazing that some can actually respect the opinions of others and not feel threatened by alternative opinions.
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Good post.
Time will tell if the moves were good and who was right.
What I love most is the speculation. We could have Ward for less, or Denver and SF didn't want Whitner. Isnt it possible that Whit wanted to come home and get paid and told Denver and SF as much? Isnt it just as possible that Denver had Ward and SF had Bethea rated higher because of their system? SF had issues with Whitners coverage and Bethea is a better coverage S.
I have no idea if DQ and Ward wanted to be here. My guess is no. I am just glad Whitner and Dansby did. Go Browns.
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No, and I will apologize if the details contradict what was earlier reported in this thread.
It's amazing that some people can actually admit to being wrong. It's also amazing that some people can actually give others credit for things. It's amazing that some can actually respect the opinions of others and not feel threatened by alternative opinions.
There are several posters that I hope this echos to; including You and I Vers.
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Do you have the details yet, because I don't. We only know that Ward got 14mil guaranteed.
According to several reports, Whitner get $13M guaranteed.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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jc
After the deal last night on the NFL Network one of the group said something about how many games did we win with DQ and TJ last year, perhaps this was an effort to get a tougher attitude in the locker room with guys that have proven themselves. This move was perhaps an effort to groom the younger guys to have a different attitude and build the core up for the new D. Like or or hate it, we weren't winning with the guys we had.
The Constitution shall never be construe to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams
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That's the thng right there.... we complain abut not keeping players that have led us to 4-12 records, hell what for?
Yeah i liked DQ and TJ,but I would like to win more and if that means turning over 53 players then start turning.
I am old and tired of losing im tired of trotting out the same crap year after year
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I've kinda taken up the same thinking with regards to the FO moves. Still don't understand the Chud firing, but accept it. Do understand the Lombardi Firing. I never thought it was a good hire to begin with. Was concerned over the Banner hire but he did start to grow on me a little.. Gotta admit that.
But in the end, we won 4 games.. And for better or worse, we have an owner that feels that's not good enough. Man did he send a message.
So it shouldn't surprise any of us when a player like TJ Ward is allowed to leave and DQ is cut (although that might have been somewhat due to his outspoken reaction to the rumor that Chud was getting fired,, we'll never know)
Both well liked players, but hey, we didn't win enough games. That's not to say that they were the reason for that. There is plenty of blame to go around.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Broncos Sign T.J. Ward Kevin Greenstein | March 11, 2014 Share by Email T+J+Ward+Seattle+Seahawks+v+Cleveland+Browns+rEUv-5gAGRclThe Denver Broncos signed strong safety TJ Ward to a four-year contract worth just $23 million, adding what would appear to be a very important piece to a Broncos team that fell one victory short in 2013. However, things aren’t always as they appear to be, and there’s good reason to wonder whether this move was a shrewd one for the Broncos or, rather, one they’ll live to regret. Last season, Ward was a very busy guy. As a starter on a Cleveland Browns team that finished with a 4-12 record, Ward was on the field early and often. He played 1,124 snaps (fifth-most amongst safeties) and performed admirably, posting the third-best rating (+14.5) while making 91 tackles (also third-most). And while he did miss 13 tackles, his +8.1 rating against the run was tops amongst all safeties. Meanwhile, the safeties who logged the most playing time for the Broncos in 2013 (Duke Ihenacho, Mike Adams, and Rahim Moore) combined for a +1.6 rating against the run, barely above replacement level, which suggests that the addition of Ward should make the Broncos’ defense better. However, the Broncos’ problem really wasn’t their ability to stop the run. Remember, this was a team that gave up 48 points to the Dallas Cowboys back in October (most through the air), while their run defense in 2013 (+74.6) was third-best in the entire NFL. When the run play gets to Ward’s level, it often means that those in front of him haven’t been able to stop the ball carrier, and in the Broncos’ case, that’s really not a problem that merited top priority this offseason. By investing even $23 million in Ward — a modest sum for the star safety, but not insignificant — the Broncos have likely made a substantial tactical error, for if Peyton Manning and the Denver offense continue to perform at a prolific level, the splits in Ward’s ability (he’s elite against the run, somewhat above average against the pass) will severely reduce his value if he’s playing in a defense that typically operates with a lead rather than a deficit. Meanwhile, the anticipated loss of Eric Decker on the offensive side could be very painful. Julius Thomas missed two games last season, and has played in only 23 games over his first three NFL seasons. Wes Welker’s susceptibility to concussions should be a very real concern. And while Demaryius Thomas has been durable over the past two seasons, there’s good reason to wonder how effective he would be if opposing defenses could aggressively bracket coverage in his direction. Put simply, Decker provided some valuable stability for the offense, suiting up across from Thomas in all 16 games while producing at a level very similar to that of Thomas. The presence of the two receivers made it difficult to stop Manning, and it’s hard to imagine a scenario where Manning will be as effective in 2014 with a depleted receiving corps. Indeed, the Broncos might find themselves needing Ward more if their offense isn’t as prolific. And so, his signing might in fact be a self-fulfilling prophecy, the Broncos losing a key component of their 2013 team in no small part because they’ve signed a player who might help mask some of the price for that loss. Make no mistake; Ward is a terrific run defender and a very solid safety. But by signing him, it’s more likely that the Broncos will be worse in 2014 than that they’ll be better. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/11/broncos-sign-t-j-ward/
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Quote:
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Do you have the details yet, because I don't. We only know that Ward got 14mil guaranteed.
According to several reports, Whitner get $13M guaranteed.
So as I suspected pretty similar deals. The signing bonus and guaranteed money is all that's really important.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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anyone else dizzy after reading that guy talk in circles?
#gmstrong
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anyone else dizzy after reading that guy talk in circles?
Ward is a star safety, but he makes them worse. That's a nice way of saying he is extremely over rated.
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anyone else dizzy after reading that guy talk in circles?
Yeah, that's a pretty crappily-written article. My conclusion is that it's hard to show yourself as a run-stopping safety when your LBs and DL are making all the tackles.
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Quote:
Quote:
anyone else dizzy after reading that guy talk in circles?
Yeah, that's a pretty crappily-written article. My conclusion is that it's hard to show yourself as a run-stopping safety when your LBs and DL are making all the tackles.
yeah, and he's blaming Ward for them losing Decker, which they seem to be okay with (they are also pursuing Ware, Peppers, and Allen).
and, I still don't get why people think he is so bad against the pass. that is not what I have seen from him and the numbers back up my eyes
Quote:
He has been the highest-graded among his position mates against the run for the last two seasons and is no slouch against the pass either. He was credited with 29 stops on running plays, five more than any other safety in 2013. To further display his strong all-around play, quarterbacks had just a 61.3 rating when throwing his direction. The most underutilized part of Ward’s game is his ability to blitz. He generated five pressures and two sacks on just 20 pass rushing opportunities last year.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/21/ranking-the-2014-free-agents-safeties/
anyways, I'll quit on the Ward tangent pretty quickly and support Whitner as I hope that he plays just as well.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
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Do you have the details yet, because I don't. We only know that Ward got 14mil guaranteed.
According to several reports, Whitner get $13M guaranteed.
So as I suspected pretty similar deals. The signing bonus and guaranteed money is all that's really important.
So should we be expecting an apology from someone now?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Did you apologize? Pffftttt
I am not sure of the contract details here. Who is getting more money? Is Ward making quite a bit more than Whitner?
If he is------------I apologize. I was wrong.
If he isn't-------------well, I know what to expect from the likes of you.
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Did you apologize? Pffftttt
I am not sure of the contract details here. Who is getting more money? Is Ward making quite a bit more than Whitner?
If he is------------I apologize. I was wrong.
If he isn't-------------well, I know what to expect from the likes of you.
You probably thought I forgot about it, but I haven't, I'm still waiting for you to man up and tell us who lied so they can address it with you and the board..
But you don't have the guts to do that... cluck cluck
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't forget much, Da Mans Hot. And I have never forgot exactly who you are.
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I don't forget much, Da Mans Hot. And I have never forgot exactly who you are.
and exactly who am I?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Please allow me to be subtle.
Is Ward making a lot more money than Whitner?
If so, I will apologize and admit I was wrong.
If not.............what will you do?
That should answer your question.
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Man I wish this message board had a private message feature to save us all this needless bickering. 
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Man I wish this message board had a private message feature to save us all this needless bickering.
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IMO Ward and his agent wanted out, and they got it. Good for him. Good in the box safety, who lacks back end coverage skills.
It's really strange. There were conflicting reports on Ward wanting to be here on almost a daily basis leading up to free agency. One day he was excited about testing the market...the next day he really wants to stay in Cleveland. I really don't know what to believe. I even read that we made a last minute push to keep him, but it looks like the Whitner signing had been in the works for days.
I think we downgraded. Hope I am wrong.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Man I wish this message board had a private message feature to save us all this needless bickering.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Please allow me to be subtle.
Is Ward making a lot more money than Whitner?
If so, I will apologize and admit I was wrong.
If not.............what will you do?
That should answer your question.
Guaranteed money?
Now, on to the other issue?
Who lied? Don't deflect tell us who lied..
Penny and everyone else, I'm sorry. I really am, But I'm absolutly sick and tired of his antics...
He loves to call out people, but doesn't like to be called out.. He calls people liars, but won't name them so they can defend their thinking. He doesn't allow for people to change their minds as circumstances change and new information comes to light.. instead, when called out, he deflects..
I'll drop this now.. But damn it someone has got to shut this guy up...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Nobody "has got to shut the guy up".
Just ignore him.
He's already enough of an albatross on football discussion as it is. Engaging with him only makes it worse.
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Ahhh.............you did not answer the questions.
Again, you are who you are.
Oh............and how are you going to shut me up? Is that a threat? LOL
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I'm absolutly sick and tired of his antics...
He loves to call out people, but doesn't like to be called out.. He calls people liars, but won't name them so they can defend their thinking. He doesn't allow for people to change their minds as circumstances change and new information comes to light.. instead, when called out, he deflects..
I'll drop this now.. But damn it someone has got to shut this guy up...
while I agree that he has belittled and insulted the living crap out of me countless times...I just ignore him for the most part.
I do think he has good points and I do agree with things he says...
I just hate the insults.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I still want to know. Who is getting paid more-------------Whit or Ward?
If I was wrong, I will admit to being wrong and will apologize. Just give me the facts.
However, if I was right...............I am not asking for an apology, but it might be nice if some of you might back off w/the attacks next time we disagree.
Is that fair?
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He loves to call out people, but doesn't like to be called out..
I'll drop this now.. But damn it someone has got to shut this guy up...
That describes 90% of the people on here. Very rarely do I read a "man was I wrong post".
Wouldn't it be easier just to use the ignore poster feature?
No need to apologize. I have had some tiffs myself. It is just hard when we're coming here for football talk and have to root throw pages of fighting.
I actually hope Vers doesn't shut up. While he can sometimes be abrasive he makes some very good football post and gives good info.
As for Ward. Heard his presser today in Denver and was a lot like Whitners. Talked about his physical play and leadership and what he hopes to bring to Denver. I liked Ward a lot as a player. Thought he was a very good SS. I wish him luck in Denver.
I like the Whitner signing. Seems to be a better fit for what Pettine wants at S. I like the winning experience he and Dansby bring. Hopefully when they speak the team will listen.
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Sam Bradford get's paid 12 million more this year than Tom Brady.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Ok......JC by the way.....who is getting paid more?
Seems like a legit question.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 03/12/14 08:42 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
He loves to call out people, but doesn't like to be called out..
I'll drop this now.. But damn it someone has got to shut this guy up...
That describes 90% of the people on here. Very rarely do I read a "man was I wrong post".
Wouldn't it be easier just to use the ignore poster feature?
No need to apologize. I have had some tiffs myself. It is just hard when we're coming here for football talk and have to root throw pages of fighting.
I actually hope Vers doesn't shut up. While he can sometimes be abrasive he makes some very good football post and gives good info.
As for Ward. Heard his presser today in Denver and was a lot like Whitners. Talked about his physical play and leadership and what he hopes to bring to Denver. I liked Ward a lot as a player. Thought he was a very good SS. I wish him luck in Denver.
I like the Whitner signing. Seems to be a better fit for what Pettine wants at S. I like the winning experience he and Dansby bring. Hopefully when they speak the team will listen.
As much as I hate to admit it, every once in a while, he says something REALLY smart and with great insight.. So I don't want to ignore him.. I actually don't think I have anyone on Ignore...
But just for the giggles of it, go up this thread and tell me where I mentioned his name and apology...
He assumed I was speakng of him and frankly, I was.. But again, it's all based on an assumption.. his.
Just like the assumption that because someone gets paid more, they must be worth more.. In a lot of life, that may be true, but it's clearly not in the NFL...
anyway, like I said, I;m done with this, I will not engage him anymore.. He's just not worth it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum T.J. Ward
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