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While those numbers are pretty alarming, they also don't show the whole story. I don't know if they are fair as Jackson and Dansby may have been asked to do different things within the defense.
I know for sure that Jackson wasn't asked to blitz much in Crennel and Mangini's defense.
Let's look at how a LB attacks the LOS to make plays.
Last year, Dansby had 122 tackles, 12 for a loss.
Last year DQ had 141 tackles ....... do you know how many were for a loss?
1.
DQ tends to get caught up in the wash in the 3-4. He can make tackles by taking angles to where a play will go ....... but he can't attack and defeat blocks. He generally prevents big plays, but gives up far more yards on generic plays than he should. His main strength is solid speed, and in the 4-3, he can use that speed to chase down plays ..... but he lacks the strength to defeat blocks in the 3-4.
Let's look at pass defense. Dansby had 19 passes defensed last year.
DQ had 7.
In every measurable way, Dansby has been far superior to DQ in the 3-4.
What aspect of DQ;s play in the 3-4 would you rate as above average? I will allow that he has solid speed, and solid coverage ability, but everything else is average, and there are LB who are far superior to DQ even in his strengths of speed/coverage IMHO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree that Dansby is the superior player for this defense. But it is unfair to compare two players stats when they are asked to do very different things in very different defenses.
The funny thing is that Jackson went to a defense that plays very similarly to the one we will be running.
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And again, I mentioned that DQ didn't fit well in this 3-4 defense a number of times. He is a better 4-3 MLB, where he can use his speed to move within his zone, and has big bodies in front of him to keep blockers off of him.
The whole point of the article I posted what that Dansby has been a superior player in the 3-4 defense. That is really irrefutable.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Even with all that Denver has done. Does anyone else think they'd still lose to Seattle? I'm reading Seattle is close to signing Henry Melton. I just can't erase that complete beat down from the Super Bowl. I've never seen Manning get destroyed like that. That Seattle team is still the same and might even get better with signing Melton and the draft coming up.
You can't say losing Browner or Thurmond will cost them. They have an assembly line of producing CBs. The only argument is that maybe losing Golden Tate will hurt them.
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You can't say losing Browner or Thurmond will cost them. They have an assembly line of producing CBs.
Yup. Plug and play at this point.
System > players
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Right now Seattle has that huge advantage of having a franchise QB without having to pay him as a franchise QB. They also have a ton of young talent performing at Pro Bowl levels.
Next year, and the year after, will be more difficult for them, as guys like Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, and Byron Maxwell's deals expire .... and as they need to start planning for Russell Wilson's future deal.
They have done an amazing job of getting Pro Bowl players late in the draft, and having cheap contracts as a result. It will be interesting to see if they can continue that late round success.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You can't say losing Browner or Thurmond will cost them. They have an assembly line of producing CBs.
Yup. Plug and play at this point.
System > players
They could put anybody at that #2 CB spot and his life would be easy. The other 3 guys in his secondary are arguably the best at their respective positions.
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Clarifying that earlier post, the link says Lafell signed with the patriots, not the Panthers.
To your question, rs, if Gross hadn't abruptly retired a couple weeks ago, I'd agree with you. Since they have to replace their starting LT, I wouldn't call a round 1 receiver a lock for them. I think it will be one of the two, for sure, but the LT depth is shallower than WR in this draft, so it will probably depend who is available. There are third and fourth round receivers this year who can contribute.
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Not for nothing, but didn't Jackson only play in 2 games under Mangini?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I really don't buy that DQ can't play in the 3-4. I thought he played well last year.
I am not saying I am unhappy that we replaced him w/Dansby. I am simply saying that 4-3 to 3-4 comparison for DQ is overstated.
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Not for nothing, but didn't Jackson only play in 2 games under Mangini?
I think that it was like a half dozen ..... but yeah, it wasn't much more than a handful of games. Regardless, no real impact plays for DQ in that defense.
I still don't see why anyone thinks that DQ has been a plus level ILB in the 3-4. He just isn't. He makes almost no impact plays. He rarely makes plays at, or behind, the LOS. He doesn't sack the QB. He doesn't grab INT. He doesn't force fumbles. He gets a ton of assists relative to his total tackles.
Again, just to compare him to Dansby, since that is who has replaced him, last year DQ had a total of 141 tackles, with 75 being solo tackles, and 66 assists. Dansby, by comparison, had 122 tackles, with 114 being solo tackles. My eye has told me that DQ needs help getting off blocks, and that he often gets in on "cheap" tackles down the field. The fact that almost half of his lauded tackle total is in the form of assists tells me that he cleans up a lot. TJ Ward actually had exactly the same number of solo tackles as DQ last year.
I struggle to see what aspect of LB play DQ excels at when it comes to playing in the 3-4 defense. He doesn't get sacks. He doesn't make impact tackles, He doesn't get INT. He doesn't attack the LOS and get tackles for a loss.He doesn't stop lays on his own. He seems to be the 2nd or 3rd guy on a tackle frequently. I just don't see anything special when I see him ..... especially in the 3-4 defense. In the 3-4, the LB have to be the playmakers. DQ is not that player. I wouldn't say that he is Wali Rainer or Andra Davis, racking up tackles of lesser consequence than a great LB would, but when I watch him play I don't see "special". If someone disagrees, please tell me where I am wrong. What has DQ done in the 3-4 that rates above "competent"? What does he do that would be considered great?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree with you that he is much less suited for the 3-4 and I think Dansby will be a noted upgrade.
I do think Jackson was good at setting up the defense and also at getting to the lateral plays. I thought he played fairly well last year when he had good gap integrity in front of him.
To sum up, with the cash we had, I wish we could have had both he and Dansby starting this year with a good draft prospect behind them who would hopefully unseat Jackson at some point. I do understand the other side of letting him go though. If the coaches really didn't think he'd fit the scheme, they would know better than me. However, I'm not sure what the plan is for the other ILB spot. What I do know is that Pettine has had a marquee player at ILB on every defense he's coached. So I do believe we go ILB very high in this draft.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Cousins is not fondly remembered by Cleveland fans after turning in a couple of the worst performances of the year by any guard. You don’t find many guards who struggle quite so much in pass protection as the one time third round pick, with his pass blocking efficiency score the fourth worst in the league of any guard as he surrendered 23 combined sacks, hits and hurries on just 220 snaps. Ugly. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/16/free-agency-reactions-day-6/ 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Bucs add depth with Browns guard Cousins
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/bucs-add-depth-with-browns-guard-cousins/2170452
I didn't even know he was a free agent. I'm actually happy that we now know we'll be drafting tackle(s)/guard(s) and they'll all go into camp and battle and he won't possibly be lingering around on this roster. O'Niel showed me nothing while in preseason against lower end defensive players as tackle, and nothing while being plugged in at guard. IMO as cruel as it may be, but if another team wants to pay him then good bye, good luck.
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OK...the rush is over. Unlike some, we improved. Dansby is a upgrade over Jackson, Whitner is a upgrade over Ward becauser oif ball skills. We signed a top blocking TE and hope to upgrade at slot....we'll know in a few days.
We may pick up another player or two as this winds down......now I say we get Hayden locked up and keep showing Mack the love to get him another 4-5 years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Once Hawkins becomes official - I think we are done. I like what we did.
I guy I'm actually excited about is Jim Dray...That 2nd TE is important to the Zone blocking scheme. Good addition for that run game and I think we will find him solid in the passing game and what you have to understand so so often the FB/2nd TE/HB is the guy defenses don't cover in many schemes that would involve rushing more that 4...We haven't had a good blocker at the area of attack since Vickers. This scheme uses a 2nd TE for that role. We got a Vickers here 15 lbs heavier...very smart and 6'5" w/hands 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Reportedly Extend Invite to CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie By Chris Pokorny  @DawgsByNature on Mar 16 2014, 4:35p 8 Jason Miller The Browns have done a lot in free agency so far, but they might not be done yet. Tweet (19) Share (8)  Share 8 Comments The Cleveland Browns have already made quite the splash in free agency, and it's possible that they aren't done yet. We've heard rumors that the team could still be in play for ILB Arthur Moats and DE Alex Carrington, both of whom played under Mike Pettine in Buffalo last year. There is another player who the Browns are reportedly interested in, though, and that would be CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie: Must Reads Browns: NFL Free Agency Can Get Rough Chris Pokorny Digging into the article linked above, the Bradenton Herald described how Rodgers-Cromartie reportedly turned down a big-number deal with the Denver Broncos because it only contained $5 million in guarantees. Here is where the article got interesting, though: Rodgers-Cromartie is in New York talking to the Jets and Giants this weekend and has an invitation to visit the Cleveland Browns. Two of these potential suitors are exciting. Jets head coach Rex Ryan likes to play Revis-style man press coverage and sees DRC as a Rodgers Island, if you will. If he goes to Cleveland, he plays opposite cornerback Joe Haden, and the Browns become a team to take seriously. Read more here: http://www.bradenton.com/2014/03/16/5049184/commentary-nfl-math-proves-drc.html#storylink=cpyIf the Browns are serious about making a play at him, they have the cap space to offer him more in guaranteed money. The Browns already missed out on a potential deal for CB Darrelle Revis, who signed with the Patriots. CB Aqib Talb signed with the Broncos. Both of those are Super Bowl contending teams. The Jets and the Giants? Not so much. That tells me that Rodgers-Cromartie is more after the money than "settling for a proven winner." As of this post, the Giants aren't in great shape cap-wise with about $12.6 million left. The Browns and Jets both have plenty of space (~$28 million or more). Small_dawgsbynature More from Dawgs By Nature Browns: NFL Free Agency Can Get Rough When Agents, Teams Play a Different Game Cleveland Browns Finally Sign RB Ben
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OK...the rush is over. Unlike some, we improved. Dansby is a upgrade over Jackson, Whitner is a upgrade over Ward becauser oif ball skills. We signed a top blocking TE and hope to upgrade at slot....we'll know in a few days.
We may pick up another player or two as this winds down......now I say we get Hayden locked up and keep showing Mack the love to get him another 4-5 years.
did we lose Tate somehow between yesterday and today? LOL
Your point is made... 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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J/C...
Whatever happened to us signing Arthur Moats? There was reports on the first day or FA that we had or were close to reaching a deal with him but I have not heard anything about him since??
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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OK...the rush is over. Unlike some, we improved. Dansby is a upgrade over Jackson, Whitner is a upgrade over Ward becauser oif ball skills. We signed a top blocking TE and hope to upgrade at slot....we'll know in a few days.....or....ok....I forgot to mention him.
We may pick up another player or two as this winds down......now I say we get Hayden locked up and keep showing Mack the love to get him another 4-5 years.
did we lose Tate somehow between yesterday and today? LOL
Your point is made...
LOl....thanks....I didn't mention Tate because it's pretty evident he is a upgrade over....you get it.
OK.....maybe I forgot to mention him for the reason mentioned.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 03/16/14 04:57 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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[The Cleveland Browns have already made quite the splash in free agency, and it's possible that they aren't done yet. We've heard rumors that the team could still be in play for ILB Arthur Moats and DE Alex Carrington, both of whom played under Mike Pettine in Buffalo last year. There is another player who the Browns are reportedly interested in, though, and that would be CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
I believe they will sign Moats to avoid entering the draft "having" to draft a ILB. I would be somewhat shocked if they sign DRC given the $$$ rumored to be involved, but then again they were in on Revis so who knows.
So in short, no I don't believe we are done....nor should we be. As Vers noted above, you don't want to enter the draft "having" to select a certain position. Obviously QB or LT is a little different because 99% of the time your never getting the good ones in FA.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I think we wait to see if we get Hawkins or not and go from there.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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So in short, no I don't believe we are done.
Yeah I thought we were done with signing Starters - I should have stated that we might get depth guys. Now DRC is he a starter? I guess if we pay him the big bucks he better be. Outside of that - if he leaves NYC. We should be done with all starting roles the rest is upgrading the bottom of the barrel and should not have big contracts involved.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Mooncamping ‏@Mooncamping 39m OG Oniel Cousins joins the former Browns O-Line Coach George Warhop (2009-2013) in Tampa Bay. http://fb.me/3cVuMLn5r
Meh.
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