Quote: Probably less than what Ward will get with Denver but whitner is just entering his prime years and has better cover skills. If we can add a Revis and draft a Ha Ha then hmm lol
from what I understand... Ward got paid a lot less
Ward will sign a four-year contract for $23 million — with $14 million
Donte Whitner to a four-year, $28 million contract.
Maybe now some posters will apologize for calling others out on their opinion of Ward? LOL.........not.
I think Whit and Ward are similar players. Both are better against the run than the pass. Both can hit hard. Whit is more efficient in coverage, but it is not a real strength. He also whiffs less than Ward. He does not make as many plays at the LOS.
For those not aware.. Whitner may in fact be a Kryptonian:
When Whitner was six-years old he was hit by an oncoming car after chasing a loose football down the street. He had up to 30 fractures in his legs from the impact and was told that he might not be able to walk again. The oncoming car suffered significant body damage. He spent three months in a full body cast but recovered.[2]
I see Whitner as an upgrade. He's better in coverage, faster, and not known to be inury prone as Ward was through college and 2 out of his 4 years with us. I feel like Dansby is an upgrade over DQ as well he's alot more versatile, he covers better, and rushes the passer alot better. I just hope that by not retaining Ward we don't hurt our chances to resign Haden as they are known to be good friends.
Kinda sad to see Ward go...he was one of my favs...but at the same time I think the writing was on the wall...several times Ward displayed his displeasure in this team...which I I don't blame him...he was tired of losing and I'm pretty sure the same with Dquell...perhaps these guys were here so long and so exhausted with the culture here...that the Browns knew they were unhappy and not content...thus kinda letting them go...perhaps others picked up on it as well...just a thought....Witner makes it essentially a wash...happy with this signing...and an Ohio guy on top of it all...wishing Winter a healthy and productive Browns campaign
Didn't Dansby play on the Cardinals team that made it to the Super Bowl?
Whitner just played in a Super Bowl.
We gave up some leadership with D'Qwell, but we just got some back. Leadership that knows what winning is. So, at least thats a wash if not an upgrade.
Anyway you look at this, the pundits that say we shouldn't have moved D'Qwell and Ward for Whitner and Dansby dont' understand that Pettine would be much better off with two comparable new guys who haven't been a part of the losing culture for the past _ _ years.
We only overspent a little - Nothing outrageous.
My take is that this isn't a wash. We will end up better off with these two. They aren't the solution, but they are definitely cover. Covering ourselves is something all the Brown's Front Offices over the past 15 years have failed to do.
I like it. It makes sense. (Farmer, I still have my eye on you!)
Quote: Didn't Dansby play on the Cardinals team that made it to the Super Bowl?
Whitner just played in a Super Bowl.
We gave up some leadership with D'Qwell, but we just got some back. Leadership that knows what winning is. So, at least thats a wash if not an upgrade.
Anyway you look at this, the pundits that say we shouldn't have moved D'Qwell and Ward for Whitner and Dansby dont' understand that Pettine would be much better off with two comparable new guys who haven't been a part of the losing culture for the past _ _ years.
We only overspent a little - Nothing outrageous.
My take is that this isn't a wash. We will end up better off with these two. They aren't the solution, but they are definitely cover. Covering ourselves is something all the Brown's Front Offices over the past 15 years have failed to do.
I like it. It makes sense. (Farmer, I still have my eye on you!)
In my view, these are two upgrades at two necessary positions to upgrade.
Dansby > Jackson
(W)hitner > Ward
The defense just got better and both Dansby & (W)hitner have leadership skills that the team will need on defense.
Quote: Adam Schefter ✔ @AdamSchefter Follow Former 49ers S Donte Whitner reached agreement on a four-year, $28 million deal with the Browns, per sources.
We just got better at Safety.
Whitner was the only safety available which I felt would be an upgrade over keeping Ward at that price-point. I'd believed Byrd would be cost-prohibitive.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
I know that a lot of people hate Gipson, but I think that he's decent, and should be better in the type of defense Pettine plays. He is a sure tackler, and he can catch the ball to create turnovers as well as anyone in our defensive backfield.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I like it, too. Sounds like we have real pro-Browns chestbeater who "gets" Browns football. I like the hitting he brings, and he is good at cover. There is no way the wins column improves without changing people to some degree. All any coach can do is gear his system to people's strengths and select players having what he feels is needed. I think Pettine is doing this, and Farmer's judgment remains to be seen as to good or bad, but I don't think we traded down here in this case. Anybody playing with heart and fire helps to win games.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Contract includes $13M guaranteed w/ a $9M signing bonus. At this point, the web page does not include annual contract base salary, cap hit, etc up to this point.
So if I understand this right, $11M of his guaranteed $13M is paid to him in one year? Wow, talk about front loading a contract.
Why not do it now so that it's not a problem next year when they're trying to seal the deal with Joe Haden, Phil Taylor, et al?
I get the reasoning for front loading the contract. Many have suggested using the 2014 cap for that very purpose. But it would also be nice to extend some guys already on this team and front load their contracts as well w/ 2014 cap space-- like the guys you've mentioned. I'm sure they can do both, but how many contracts is the question.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Broncos Sign T.J. Ward Kevin Greenstein | March 11, 2014
Share by Email T+J+Ward+Seattle+Seahawks+v+Cleveland+Browns+rEUv-5gAGRclThe Denver Broncos signed strong safety TJ Ward to a four-year contract worth just $23 million, adding what would appear to be a very important piece to a Broncos team that fell one victory short in 2013. However, things aren’t always as they appear to be, and there’s good reason to wonder whether this move was a shrewd one for the Broncos or, rather, one they’ll live to regret.
Last season, Ward was a very busy guy. As a starter on a Cleveland Browns team that finished with a 4-12 record, Ward was on the field early and often. He played 1,124 snaps (fifth-most amongst safeties) and performed admirably, posting the third-best rating (+14.5) while making 91 tackles (also third-most). And while he did miss 13 tackles, his +8.1 rating against the run was tops amongst all safeties.
Meanwhile, the safeties who logged the most playing time for the Broncos in 2013 (Duke Ihenacho, Mike Adams, and Rahim Moore) combined for a +1.6 rating against the run, barely above replacement level, which suggests that the addition of Ward should make the Broncos’ defense better.
However, the Broncos’ problem really wasn’t their ability to stop the run. Remember, this was a team that gave up 48 points to the Dallas Cowboys back in October (most through the air), while their run defense in 2013 (+74.6) was third-best in the entire NFL. When the run play gets to Ward’s level, it often means that those in front of him haven’t been able to stop the ball carrier, and in the Broncos’ case, that’s really not a problem that merited top priority this offseason.
By investing even $23 million in Ward — a modest sum for the star safety, but not insignificant — the Broncos have likely made a substantial tactical error, for if Peyton Manning and the Denver offense continue to perform at a prolific level, the splits in Ward’s ability (he’s elite against the run, somewhat above average against the pass) will severely reduce his value if he’s playing in a defense that typically operates with a lead rather than a deficit.
Meanwhile, the anticipated loss of Eric Decker on the offensive side could be very painful. Julius Thomas missed two games last season, and has played in only 23 games over his first three NFL seasons. Wes Welker’s susceptibility to concussions should be a very real concern. And while Demaryius Thomas has been durable over the past two seasons, there’s good reason to wonder how effective he would be if opposing defenses could aggressively bracket coverage in his direction.
Put simply, Decker provided some valuable stability for the offense, suiting up across from Thomas in all 16 games while producing at a level very similar to that of Thomas. The presence of the two receivers made it difficult to stop Manning, and it’s hard to imagine a scenario where Manning will be as effective in 2014 with a depleted receiving corps.
Indeed, the Broncos might find themselves needing Ward more if their offense isn’t as prolific. And so, his signing might in fact be a self-fulfilling prophecy, the Broncos losing a key component of their 2013 team in no small part because they’ve signed a player who might help mask some of the price for that loss. Make no mistake; Ward is a terrific run defender and a very solid safety. But by signing him, it’s more likely that the Broncos will be worse in 2014 than that they’ll be better.
We had the "20% of the cap space" discussion yesterday, remember?
Whitner getting paid over 10mil in year one is "normal" for any big name FA. He got 9mil SB and his 2mil base salary guaranteed. That's 11mil in his pocket the moment he signed the contract, BUT...
...he's NOT a 11mil cap hit. The SB gets spread out and his 2014 cap hit actually is a VERY modest 4.25mil because of his low base salary. Here are the full details:
Donte Whitner signed a four year, $28 million contract with the Cleveland Browns on March 11, 2014. Whitner received a $9 million signing bonus and a fully guaranteed 2014 base salary. He will earn another $2 million in guarantees if on the roster 5 days following the 2014 Super Bowel. Base salaries of the contract are $2,000,000(2014), $4,500,000(2015), $6,200,000(2016), and $6,300,000(2017).
It's a 2year deal and after that there will be a decision if he's worth a 8.5mil cap hit in 2016, a cut then would free up 4mil. We could even cut him after next season (before his 2mil roster bonus) if he sucks without taking a dead money cap hit in 2015.
Spread out from 2014-18 his cap numbers are: 4.25, 6.75, 8.45 and 8.55...so the deal is actually back loaded
Dansby's is more balanced, but still a 2year deal: 5.5, 5.5, 6.5, 6.5
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
I copied this blog entry from draftbrowns site. It seems pretty straight forward.
Breaking Down the Contracts of Karlos Dansby and Donte Whitner MARCH 11TH, 2014
Pictured: Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on Day One of NFL Free Agency (Photo: thebillfold.com) DraftBrowns.com Staff Writer: Mikey Tricarichi
I’ve been receiving a lot of questions on twitter regarding details of transactions made by The Cleveland Browns on the first day of the 2014 NFL League Year. I’ll go over them somewhat chronologically. I’ll also touch on other news points of the day that need some explanation.
We’ll start with the adjusted salary cap number that the Cleveland Browns have to work with for the 2014 season. The league-wide cap number per team is set at $133 million. The Browns had about $24.5 million that went unspent from the previous season and thanks to the most recent NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement, they have the ability carry it over. USA Today has the 2014 adjusted cap number at $156.9 million.
Next we’ll touch on the available cap room that the Browns can spend on 2014 contracts.
Albert Breer of the NFL network reported this morning that Cleveland is $49 million under their adjusted salary cap number. That figure gives The Browns $107.9 million in current contract obligations as of the morning of March 11th 2014.
Here’s a really quick rundown of how most contracts are treated for the league salary cap:
Signing Bonus – Is considered “guaranteed money”. Gets prorated over the life of the contract (up to 5 years).
Example – Player A receives a $20 million signing bonus on a 4 year deal. To prorate just divide the bonus amount by the amount of years. That gives us a $5 million signing bonus.
Base Salary – Is the amount of money the player will be paid during the season. This amount counts fully on the specific season it is paid.
Example – Along with Player A’s $20 million signing bonus, he has a $2 million base salary. That $2 million will count on that season’s salary cap.
That gives us the basic calculation: Prorated Signing Bonus + Base Salary = Cap Number.
Now we’ll go over the available information on the Karlos Dansby and Donte Whitner contracts. (Schefter really killed it today, huh?) Also Aaron Wilson really does a great job getting contract details to make things a LOT easier for me.
Karlos Dansby – Was reported earlier (Good job, good effort, Mary Kay) that $10 million is being paid in year 1. That gives us the key piece to the puzzle. $6m signing bonus means that his base salary is $4m for 2014.
Base Salary: $4 million
Signing Bonus: $6 million over 4 years = $1.25 million each of the 4 years on the contract.
2014 Cap Number: $4m + $1.25m = $5.25 million
Donte Whitner – The tweets above from Tom Pelissero and Aaron Wilson give us all the information we need: $9 million signing bonus, 4 years, $11 million paid in 2014. That gives us a $2 million base salary ($11m – $9m).
Base Salary: $2 million
Signing Bonus: $9 million over 4 years = $2.25 million each of the 4 years on the contract
2014 Cap Number: $2m + $2.25m = $4.25 million.
That gives us $9.5 million spent today of the $49 million The Browns started with a total current cap room of $39.5 million.
Note: Full details of the Andrew Hawkins contract tender are not available at the moment and the Bengals still have 5 days to match the Browns offer.
As soon as we tagged Mack, his one year tender was applied to our cap. In other words, we own that as a part of our salary structure until he signs with us, signs elsewhere and we either match, or don't, or release him from the tender.
So, if another team signs Mack, and he has a $15 million signing bonus on a 5 year deal, with a 1st year salary of $6 million, (as an example) that could actually wind up costing us less this year than the tender.
I know that in the past some teams have matched a deal, then converted parts of the deal to various bonuses. I wonder if that is still legal. In other words, maybe Mack gets a 5 year deal worth $42 million, with $15 million in guarantees, but it is back loaded ....... so the Browns match, then give him additional guaranteed money to make it front loaded instead, that hits earlier in the contract.
I don't know if that kind of thing is still legal or not.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
So if I understand this right, $11M of his guaranteed $13M is paid to him in one year? Wow, talk about front loading a contract.
Why not do it now so that it's not a problem next year when they're trying to seal the deal with Joe Haden, Phil Taylor, et al?
I get the reasoning for front loading the contract. Many have suggested using the 2014 cap for that very purpose. But it would also be nice to extend some guys already on this team and front load their contracts as well w/ 2014 cap space-- like the guys you've mentioned. I'm sure they can do both, but how many contracts is the question.
Well, you can do that now anyway. The cap situation in 2015 should still be a very good one for the Browns and you'll have these guys under contract.
The guys you have under contract now can still be extended knowing that the cap situation will be a good one.
More I think about it, we let go of two players for two better players. May not be light years better, but I'm beginning to be intrigued more and more having Dansby and Hitner (I won't even call him Whiter from here out) has put us in a better place than having TJ and DQ (no disrespect to those two former Browns either).
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