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Gilkey ... was nowhere near ready. quote]
But Dj, a 7th rd pick out of a small school (Chadron St). He was a rookie and, I believe, there were no expectations that he would see much, if any, playing time. Perhaps this season, he may (or may not) fit into the new staff's plans...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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All you people need to calm down and let the NEW regime do it's job.
But that's not as fun as taking pot shots in the dark....
But he is absolutely correct... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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What mistakes have they made? I'm so angry with the Browns right now!  The only thing the Browns stand for is changing their minds, they've built a short history of only standing for changing their minds. With Dqwell, and Ward, and even Lauvao gone, ... it is official, NOBODY can retire a Cleveland Brown. Not Robiskie, not Cribbs, not Hillis, not Dawson, nobody. They just don't get it yet !
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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You cannot change the past, your actions will change the future.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Nobody in the league retires on the team they were drafted with or played their careers with. It isn't just a Brown's problem or something.
I'm not even sure it exists at all. Who in sports history since the 80s played their entire career on one team and retired? I guess Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan might pull it off, but it is incredibly rare in modern sports. You would think if it were still a reality a guy like Peyton Manning would have definitely been the guy to do it.
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NRTU,
As I see it - we have 6 major holes we need to fill before the season starts:
QB
WR2
OG
ILB
CB2
FS
We can probably fill 4 of these in the draft (both first round picks, the second round pick, and probably one of the third round picks, can start).
Who do you pick up to fill the others?
~Lyuokdea
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In before Weeden joke.
TL, why is it important people retire as Browns?
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That's why I wish we had guys like Ozzie and Reese as GM. They've done their jobs for years now and do not need to impress anyone anymore.
I really think the biggest problem of any GM here has been that he tried to show the rest of the NFL that he's the smartest guy around. This pissing match mentality leads to ignoring the obvious moves to be made and instead outsmarting and getting prospect or "my guys I found" happy.
dj...about showing the rest of the NFL how smart our GM is...I don't get that sense with Farmer one bit.
About wanting a Ozzie or Reese as GM...they had to start somewhere and this is Farmer's beginning...his start.
Some of us forget where the Browns management and coaching staff are starting from 2014. They are young and inexperienced and we are going to have to live with that. They will make mistakes, but you hope that they learn from their mistakes.
I look at Farmer and Pettine and realize this is a new beginning...again. If our owner, the media and our fans have the fortitude to endure the process...the process of starting over...but this time, allowing our young GM and Coaching staff to mature and grow into their jobs, this could be the best shape the football side of the franchise has been in, since 1999.
I don't wish for anyone else's GM or HC...I just want to see everyone give these guys the time needed to turn the Browns into a winning franchise. I'm happy with what we have and the job they have done so far.
Give it time..
I agree Mac....I think we have it right this time. I didn't feel that way a few months ago.
This is a new start, but boy, I think it might be one hell of a start.
I think we have a owner who is engaged and demands results. I think we have a GM who is a solid talent evaluator. I think Pettine is exactly the type of coach that was needed in Cleveland....a tough, defensive minded guy who isn't going to take crap or allow slack results out of players or coaches. I think we have a front office on the business side who will keep the team healthy from a contract/cap standpoint and a partnership standpoint that will make/keep the team very profitable for the owner and league.
Look at what has happened in the year and a half since Haslam took over. Two total shake-ups. The first was expected, the second not....but hey, the guy wants it right. He didn't have it right in his mind. A lot of owners would have sat on their hands. I give him credit for making a unpopular change. Dumping those guys wasn't cheap, so at minimum that shows that Haslam isn't simply here to put out a crappy product and collect big profits. That money comes off his profit line. It isn't easily absorbed by some other line item on the P&L statement.
We are having major renovations at the stadium. We are active and signing players above and beyond 2nd/3rd team type guys. ...and signing multiple players.
I am liking what I see!
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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... we have 6 major holes we need to fill ...
I see only 1 that is "major"...QB. I do agree however, that the rest of your list requires upgrading before we could be considered a serious contender...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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What mistakes have they made?
I'm so angry with the Browns right now!
The only thing the Browns stand for is changing their minds, they've built a short history of only standing for changing their minds.
With Dqwell, and Ward, and even Lauvao gone, ... it is official, NOBODY can retire a Cleveland Brown. Not Robiskie, not Cribbs, not Hillis, not Dawson, nobody. They just don't get it yet !
You forgot to mention Peyton Manning a Colt.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Very well said, 'peen... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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QB - Yep
WR2 - Probably a need
OG - We have Pinkston and Greco, Gilkey should progress, and I have to wonder how Faulk is rehabbing.
ILB - Probably a need as well. We don't really know what the thoughts are on Robertson.
CB2 - more of a need than OG or ILB, can't have enough of them.
FS - Probably at the bottom of the list.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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What mistakes have they made?
I'm so angry with the Browns right now!
The only thing the Browns stand for is changing their minds, they've built a short history of only standing for changing their minds.
With Dqwell, and Ward, and even Lauvao gone, ... it is official, NOBODY can retire a Cleveland Brown. Not Robiskie, not Cribbs, not Hillis, not Dawson, nobody. They just don't get it yet !
The only one on your list that should have been kept is Dawson, but I think it was mor Dawson wanting to leave vs the browns not wanting him....robiskie, cribbs, and hillis I have no problem getting rid of when we did... I do wish we kept dq and ward, but again, they have to want to stay... Maybe they were ready for a change...
<><
#gmstrong
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What makes it especially amazing is that each time it's a different set of people making the same mistakes the last guys made.
just what mistakes are we making let alone same as others.
I see us losing some starters - and not wanting to go into the draft with an urgent need. I see possible upgrades or lateral in what we lost and gained. Hawkins will put us over the top in losing Bess and gaining him. Whitner probably a small gain regarding the fact that we are not going to have the SS primarily attacking the box. We improved on ILB/MLB coverage. We got some CB depth not UDFA. The only loss I see we had where we didn't make a counter move was Lava at RG - the pickings are slim in FA and they went fast. We must have Pinkston penciled in there so we got a starter there and could upgrade in the draft but not by URGENT NEED.
I don't see any SAME mistakes. The only one I saw happened in December when we fired our HC n subsequently the coaching staff.
jmho - FA just is not the place to build the OL...maybe a depth guy. Look to the draft.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think with a good enough QB the rest of the team becomes pretty irrelevant.
If we had Manning/Brady/Brees and did nothing to upgrade those other positions we would be a definite contender to win it all.
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I'm not even sure it exists at all. Who in sports history since the 80s played their entire career on one team and retired?
Steve Yzerman, Niklas Lidstrom, Mario Lemieux and probably Martin Brodeur? I realize hockey's a different animal, but this shows that keeping your stars long term can lead to success.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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QB - Yep
WR2 - Probably a need
OG - We have Pinkston and Greco, Gilkey should progress, and I have to wonder how Faulk is rehabbing.
ILB - Probably a need as well. We don't really know what the thoughts are on Robertson.
CB2 - more of a need than OG or ILB, can't have enough of them.
FS - Probably at the bottom of the list.
Pinkston's injury situation is still a bit of a danger and I really think Greco is a stopgap.
I think we'll make a strong play for Schaub if he is released - I think we are the favorites if we want him, given his history with Shanahan. I think there are a number of solid, if not spectacular guards available. Guys like Eben Britton and Davin Joseph.
Dominique Rogers Cromartie is interesting as a CB2 -- though I think he might want more money than he's worth. Chris Clemons could end up being a bargain at S, I'm surprised he hasn't been signed yet. Don't see much at ILB, at least for 3-4 ILB.
At WR there are a ton of high talent (but troubled) options, Kenny Britt, Santonio Holmes, Darrius Hayward-Bay? Lots of big names and underwhleming production there.
~Lyuokdea
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Pinkston's injury situation is still a bit of a danger
Any news on his health??? or is that just speculation...please share cause I haven't read anything negative or positive about his health.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Pinkston's injury situation is still a bit of a danger
Any news on his health??? or is that just speculation...please share cause I haven't read anything negative or positive about his health.
I guess speculation - which I probably shouldn't do.... since it's not a sports injury, the team can't really release much.
~Lyuokdea
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Pinkston's injury situation is still a bit of a danger
Any news on his health??? or is that just speculation...please share cause I haven't read anything negative or positive about his health.
I guess speculation - which I probably shouldn't do.... since it's not a sports injury, the team can't really release much.
I thought he recovered fine and was cleared to play football. Then the next battle was to get into true football shape. I think that last portion may have been a struggle in 2013 whether you think he's good or bad.
I would be interested to see what people think about Pinkston and his chance in zone blocking?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I'm not even sure it exists at all. Who in sports history since the 80s played their entire career on one team and retired?
Steve Yzerman, Niklas Lidstrom, Mario Lemieux and probably Martin Brodeur? I realize hockey's a different animal, but this shows that keeping your stars long term can lead to success.
Barry Sanders, Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman, Johnathan Ogden, Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, Michael Strahan, Walter Jones, Marvin Harrison, Will Shields, Terrell Davis. Does John Elway or Marino count?
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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I'm not even sure it exists at all. Who in sports history since the 80s played their entire career on one team and retired?
Steve Yzerman, Niklas Lidstrom, Mario Lemieux and probably Martin Brodeur? I realize hockey's a different animal, but this shows that keeping your stars long term can lead to success.
Barry Sanders, Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman, Johnathan Ogden, Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, Michael Strahan, Walter Jones, Marvin Harrison, Will Shields, Terrell Davis. Does John Elway or Marino count?
Yes. Of course it's smart to keep HOF level talent through their career. DQ and TJ are not HOF'ers.
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I'm not even sure it exists at all. Who in sports history since the 80s played their entire career on one team and retired?
Steve Yzerman, Niklas Lidstrom, Mario Lemieux and probably Martin Brodeur? I realize hockey's a different animal, but this shows that keeping your stars long term can lead to success.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the most obvious example:
Ray Lewis.
I also expect Tom Brady to make that list. Aaron Rogers, as well.
It doesn't happen nearly as often as in the old days, that's for sure.
However- I can see TL's point about "grow your own"... a successful team will always need fresh blood at various positions, but the whole idea of 'build through the draft' implies that a good number of your valued vets have come up through the system. A balance of vets, FA's and young'uns seems the smart way to go, imo.
Our problem has always been sticking with a system- ANY system.
On a side note: Haslam has shown a willingness to jettison quickly... but I'm not yet worried that he'll continue down that line. He's gotten counsel from some pretty successful bigwigs, and I'm sure many have told him about patience being a virtue where excessive turnover is concerned. The 2 big dumps were a shock, but I really do think we'll see things calm down for a few years now.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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"OG - We have Pinkston and Greco, Gilkey should progress, and I have to wonder how Faulk is rehabbing."
Those are just names,not football players.Pinkston will do well in a zone scheme,if he's healthy,the others,hell fill in the blanks with any name you choose.
If we go into the season with 2 of those 4 starting,we're going to stink at running again.
Oh,we forget Cousins,might as well start his rather large behind,he'll do as well as any of the above.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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It's amazing how many times this franchise repeats the same mistakes over and over and over again.
What makes it especially amazing is that each time it's a different set of people making the same mistakes the last guys made. 
And that is exactly why it keeps happening, bro. We never have the same people in place to learn from their mistakes.
I really thought we were going to buck the trend w/Banner. He wasn't about drafting WRs high. He knew we needed a QB and edge rusher. Of course, we fired him. Now, we are stuck w/another genius who overvalues RBs and WRs.
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I don't wish for anyone else's GM or HC...I just want to see everyone give these guys the time needed to turn the Browns into a winning franchise. I'm happy with what we have and the job they have done so far.
Give it time..
LMAO..............like you were willing to give Banner time? 
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I could have sworn people were complaining about our run blocking last year. Did I imagine that? We pass on guards and RTs and we focus on a WR, a RB, and a TE. Freaking brilliant.
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I thought he recovered fine and was cleared to play football. Then the next battle was to get into true football shape. I think that last portion may have been a struggle in 2013 whether you think he's good or bad.
I would be interested to see what people think about Pinkston and his chance in zone blocking?
My view is that he'll be cut during in the preseason.
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I thought he recovered fine and was cleared to play football. Then the next battle was to get into true football shape. I think that last portion may have been a struggle in 2013 whether you think he's good or bad.
I would be interested to see what people think about Pinkston and his chance in zone blocking?
My view is that he'll be cut during in the preseason.
Because of his overall talent or scheme fit?...or both?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Pinkston is the only guard we have on this team that has even a snowballs chance in hell of converting to a zone scheme.
In that light,he may get cut in preseason.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Gilkey sucked last yearbut from the college tape i saw on him, I liked his lateral movement but I still wouldnt mind one of those tackles from Tenn for a guard. I like both
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Pinkston is the only guard we have on this team that has even a snowballs chance in hell of converting to a zone scheme.
In that light,he may get cut in preseason.
So using your thinking, Greco, Gilkey, Faulk, etc are sure cuts and Pinkston is the only one who stands a small chance?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I thought he recovered fine and was cleared to play football. Then the next battle was to get into true football shape. I think that last portion may have been a struggle in 2013 whether you think he's good or bad.
I would be interested to see what people think about Pinkston and his chance in zone blocking?
My view is that he'll be cut during in the preseason.
Because of his overall talent or scheme fit?...or both?
Probably a little of both. My guess is the talent level will be the final determining factor. I think that if a player has talent then most times they are versatile enough that they can be fit into just about any scheme. I'm not sure that Pinkston has the level of talent needed.
Pinkston would also be a free agent after next season anyway and he's costing more than the other (perhaps more talented) players at the position already on the team.
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I don't believe there are any "more talented G's on the roster" with the possible exception of Greco. And that isn't saying much.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Why would you ask such a stupid question?
There are what we have.If,and that's a big if,they don't get replaced they can't be cut.
And your next question would be why can't they be cut?
Because every team keeps two guards on the field at the same time,therefore we will need to keep at least one of them.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I don't believe there are any "more talented G's on the roster" with the possible exception of Greco. And that isn't saying much.
Okay. But it isn't you that determines who is more talented, is it? 
My guess, and that's all it is, is that Pinkston is cut before the season starts.
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QB - Yep
WR2 - Probably a need
OG - We have Pinkston and Greco, Gilkey should progress, and I have to wonder how Faulk is rehabbing.
ILB - Probably a need as well. We don't really know what the thoughts are on Robertson.
CB2 - more of a need than OG or ILB, can't have enough of them.
FS - Probably at the bottom of the list.
Pinkston's injury situation is still a bit of a danger and I really think Greco is a stopgap.
I think we'll make a strong play for Schaub if he is released - I think we are the favorites if we want him, given his history with Shanahan. I think there are a number of solid, if not spectacular guards available. Guys like Eben Britton and Davin Joseph.
Dominique Rogers Cromartie is interesting as a CB2 -- though I think he might want more money than he's worth. Chris Clemons could end up being a bargain at S, I'm surprised he hasn't been signed yet. Don't see much at ILB, at least for 3-4 ILB.
At WR there are a ton of high talent (but troubled) options, Kenny Britt, Santonio Holmes, Darrius Hayward-Bay? Lots of big names and underwhleming production there.
I saw someone posted on another board tonight if we picked up Schaub and Rogers Cromartie and with our first 2 picks get Sammy Watkins at 4 and CJ Mosley at 26 then we could fill most of our pressing needs and then look at our last 8 draft picks to fill bottom up depth and maybe one of the other QBs and offensive line help and we should be ok.
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3B) QB- A.J. McCarron
2B) WR2- Brandin Cooks
1B) OG- Xavier Su'a-Filo
3A) ILB- Yawin Smallwood
1A) CB2- Darqueze Dennard
2A) FS- Calvin Pryor Quote:
We can probably fill 4 of these in the draft (both first round picks, the second round pick, and probably one of the third round picks, can start).
Who do you pick up to fill the others?
Using the "First Pick" NFL Mock Draft I decided to trade down with Atlanta for their 1st & 2nd @#6 & 37, then with TB for 7 & their 3rd rounder @# 69). I would have wanted their 2nd but the computer only offered the 3rd. Anyway, using the trades I was able to go BPA and fill all the needs. In addition I garnered the following:
3C) RB Ka'Deem Carey
4A) DT Ego Ferguson
4B) OLB Adrian Hubbard
5) DE Aaron Lynch
6) C Corey Linsley (Developmental insurance)
7) SS Vinnie Sunseri
Several people on the board are talking about taking Watkins at 4, but if you want to really build for the long term, you need to use a draft, that is deep like this, to try working trades back and get extra picks, like Belichick did with the Pats. That helps us keep our finances lower (Smaller contracts) so we can re-sign these guys down the road. You keep staying pat you have a team of pro-bowlers that will cost to much to keep. You may still have problems if you can draft a group like this. I see a lot of potential here.
Just my ramblings though, as always, go BROWNS!
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
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My view is that he'll be cut during in the preseason.
Why is that? He was playing very well before that blood clot.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not even sure it exists at all. Who in sports history since the 80s played their entire career on one team and retired?
Steve Yzerman, Niklas Lidstrom, Mario Lemieux and probably Martin Brodeur? I realize hockey's a different animal, but this shows that keeping your stars long term can lead to success.
Derek Jeter, Chipper Jones, Craig Biggio, Mariano Rivera, Kobe Bryant, Cal Ripken, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki (I realize some of these guys aren't retired, but they will retire with their only teams).
The list goes on and on.
I just can't believe something THROW LONG brought up is garnering so much discussion.
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