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Just to follow that up, here is an NFL.com article where they make it sound like the Jags are going to offer a contract (offer sheet). We have about 6 million more in cap, so we should be able to match it, but if the agent is so clever (as he thinks he is) it could be worked in such a way as to make it difficult, or just too pricey.
The Jacksonville Jaguars are taking a hard look at Alex Mack.
NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Saturday that the Jaguars hosted the transition-tagged Cleveland Browns center on Friday. The sides continue to talk and an offer sheet is a possibility, according to two sources informed of the visit.
The Browns' decision to use the transition tag as opposed to the franchise tag has given other teams the opportunity to make an offer for the Pro Bowl center in free agency. The Browns can match any competing offer within five days, but get no compensation if Mack signs with another team.
The transition tag lowers Mack's one-year price tag from $11.6 million to approximately $10 million.
According to Rapoport, the Browns and Mack have continued to negotiate since the March 3 tag date, but no deal is imminent. Rapoport reported last month that four teams were in contact with Mack's camp on varying levels, including the Indianapolis Colts and Baltimore Ravens. It's believed that Mack's meeting with Jacksonville is his first with any team.
The Jaguars have a significant void at center following the exit of franchise stalwart Brad Meester, who retired after 14 seasons with the team.
Mack, 28, is an impact player who represents an excellent succession plan at the position. According to official NFLPA records, Cleveland has nearly $31 million in cap space (about $6 million more than the Jags), giving the Browns the financial flexibility to match an offer sheet.
We could soon find out just how badly they want to keep their center around.
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Just to add a bit more...
A league source told the Florida Times Union the Jaguars would likely have to create an offer sheet worth at least $22 million guaranteed over the first three years to lure transition-tagged C Alex Mack out of Cleveland.
Per OverTheCap.com, the Browns currently have $30.78 million in cap space, the most in the league and over $5 million more than the Jaguars. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport tweeted Saturday that there's a "very good possibility" Jacksonville extends Mack an offer sheet, but Cleveland has both the means and right to match. Because Mack was transition tagged and not franchise tagged, the Browns would receive no draft-pick compensation if they declined to match. linker
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I'm half tempted to say let him go. He obviously doesn't want to play here and we don't even know if he fits in our scheme now.... We have more than enough picks in the upcoming draft to find and draft a center. That said, if we match the offer then I presume it means our coaching staff believe Mack fits and is worth that kind of money. We shall see....
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I agree... if he would rather switch to another losing organization - then don't match the offer and let him go. No hard feelings.
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Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
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Quote:
Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
They seem to be trying to address the line on both sides of the ball.... I think they signed an LT but lost their center... I just hope if he's going to sign somewhere he does it soon so we can figure out if we want to match or need to move on
<><
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Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
I thought 10 million was a bit much, but if Jacksonville is willing to tie up 20 million against their cap. Mack TAKE IT! You have no hard feeling from me. Anyone willing to offer that much coin for a Center deserves to pay. Wow 20 million is three years rolled into one!
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Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
Maybe the grass is greener on the other side?
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I thought 10 million was a bit much, but if Jacksonville is willing to tie up 20 million against their cap. Mack TAKE IT! You have no hard feeling from me. Anyone willing to offer that much coin for a Center deserves to pay. Wow 20 million is three years rolled into one!
Agreed. Mack is a decent player, but he's no Joe Thomas or anything. I don't think he's any better than Hank Fraley was that first year he player here. I guess Fraley had better players beside him with Tucker and Steinbach, but I just never have been THAT high on Mack. That interior part of the line seems weak to me. Maybe if we had better RB protection I'd feel better about it, but I'm just not seeing it.
I wanted to let him go and try to keep TJ Ward. Whitner took care of that, but even still, I think I'd prefer TJ and Whitner over Alex Mack and Whitner. I just don't think Mack is that great, probowls or not
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I'm half tempted to say let him go. He obviously doesn't want to play here and we don't even know if he fits in our scheme now.... We have more than enough picks in the upcoming draft to find and draft a center. That said, if we match the offer then I presume it means our coaching staff believe Mack fits and is worth that kind of money. We shall see....
I am tired of reading about the guy. See what the deal is...if it is a crazy deal, just let him go. We have the opportunity to draft a replacement center and I am sure there are several centers still seeking work. Bring in a vet on a 2-3 year deal to help with the process while the rookie learns.
If Mack does go, I might rethink my draft and look at Matthews with the #1 pick and play him at RT and move Schwartz over to guard. That makes the O-line strong than just keeping Mack would make it.
That also gives us a legit back-up for Joe if needed. That would be like money in the bank. Bookend tacjles and a stronger guard. Also, maybe some of the football guys will be able to answer with some authority, I am not even sure if line calls is as important in a zone blocking scheme. From what I gather is you get a hat on a hat and move laterally along the line and let the backs pick their running lane.
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I am not even sure if line calls is as important in a zone blocking scheme. From what I gather is you get a hat on a hat and move laterally along the line and let the backs pick their running lane.
No, that's not correct. In fact, zone blocking is way more complex than man or base blocking.
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1. Mack is playing here...if he signs the contract I am thinking it is good for us. There is no poison pill in there for us...only thing possible is a down right Stupid contract offer for a team that needs money to spend on the OL Edge not Center.  But a good solid contract we will match. As for Mack wanting to leave Cleveland...lol  I don't think his first choice is the JAGS we are on the move up...Jags I think are worse off than we are.
2. Peen make that Robinson and I'm in there with ya - no QB at 4 that is my #1 alternative!
3. Vers...Zone blocking is different but not that hard. Like anything once you get use to it and comfortable it becomes easy. I have no doubt we will be getting into a good groove by August.
If they can't handle it - we will have drafted players coming in with the skill set to do so. As stated before I'm amazed at the speed of the OL prospects coming in. Weed out the pretenders and get some mean SOB's we are there!
I'm going zone blocking this year as we put in a stretch run series. You double up in In Line blocking as well w/one peeling off to the 2nd level so that is pretty much there now it the scoop steps and getting use to the angle.
jmho - Mack ain't going anywhere and signing a contract w/Jags don't mean he want to leave us for them... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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No offer yet, but Browns center Alex Mack visited Jaguars
Posted by Darin Gantt on April 5, 2014, 5:11 PM EDT
Alex Mack AP
The Browns bought themselves the chance to match any deal for center Alex Mack when they used the transition tag on him.
Now, they might have to see how much they value him.
According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Mack visited the Jaguars last night.
He hasn’t signed an offer sheet yet, but it’s an obvious display of interest.
The Browns would have the opportunity to match any deal for Mack, though they’d get no compensation if they didn’t.
The Jaguars have had an aggressive offseason so far, but this would be their boldest move yet.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...isited-jaguars/
 The Jaguars making a play for him?
And Mary Kay is wrong. We wouldn't get any compensation for him this year, but we might next draft season. He would still be a free agent loss.
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Looks like the Browns have 10 million more in CAP space then the Jags.. At least if this info is up to date http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nfl/2014/Not sure what that means really. The only number that matters is what it would take to match any offer..
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/06/14 10:24 AM.
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I think we should keep Mack. I think it's been proven that we want Mack. You don't fly the owner, GM, and HC out to California to visit a guy you don't want.
Zone blocking is harder. It takes much more intelligence. It asks the players to make more reads. They have to work together much more than in man blocking. They also have to be more agile. I prefer the system, but you need smart guys. Thus, losing Mack would hurt.
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I know that it used to be that a team could match a contract, and then alter the terms of the deal to help with their own cap situation. In other words, maybe they match a deal with a $5 million signing bonus and a $10 million 1st year salary, and they change those 2 items so the contract instead has a $10 million bonus and a $5 1st year salary.
I wonder if that's still the case.
If so, we could match a deal is we wanted to, and front load it dramatically. (with Mack's approval, of course, but why wouldn't he allow that once we matched a deal?) We could change his deal so that we use up a chunk of our cap space to allow us to recoup future cap space immediately. Let's say that his deal has a $20 million signing bonus and a $5 million 1st year salary. Maybe we change the terms so that the signing bonus is reduced to $10 million, and the 1st year salary is increased to $15 million. That way instead of only $5 million of the total deal being off the books in year one, $15 million is. (plus whatever the pro-rated signing bonus is, based on the number of years for the contract)
It could be a potential strategy.
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John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would assume that Mack is eventually going to sign a Darelle Revis style contract. In the first year you play the player whatever he was going to make, in Mack's case 10 million. Then in the second year you make it a non-guaranteed 20 million dollar cap hit so the team is forced to cut him and therefore cannot tag him again ensuring his free agency. That's what I would do if I were the Jags or Colts.
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I would assume that Mack is eventually going to sign a Darelle Revis style contract. In the first year you play the player whatever he was going to make, in Mack's case 10 million. Then in the second year you make it a non-guaranteed 20 million dollar cap hit so the team is forced to cut him and therefore cannot tag him again ensuring his free agency. That's what I would do if I were the Jags or Colts.
Could be ..... but what good would that do for the Colts or Jags?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Could be ..... but what good would that do for the Colts or Jags?
Ensure he's a free agent next year and buy some good will for practically doing nothing.
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Quote:
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I would assume that Mack is eventually going to sign a Darelle Revis style contract. In the first year you play the player whatever he was going to make, in Mack's case 10 million. Then in the second year you make it a non-guaranteed 20 million dollar cap hit so the team is forced to cut him and therefore cannot tag him again ensuring his free agency. That's what I would do if I were the Jags or Colts.
Could be ..... but what good would that do for the Colts or Jags?
But the Browns could match that anyways.
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Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
Exactly my thought.
All the speculation on this board about him being tired of losing ... Jacksonville sure would be a cure for that.  It's obviously about the cash.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
Exactly my thought.
All the speculation on this board about him being tired of losing ... Jacksonville sure would be a cure for that. It's obviously about the cash.
I think you should give him a pass on this visit before we scream simply greedy. It is after all his first dance request, how do you turn that down?
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Quote:
Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
According to my train of thought all along, nothing makes me wonder about this. I've never thought any of this was about not wanting to play here. Or that he had a preference about playing on a possible SB team.
I've felt all along his goal was to get the best deal possible for the security of himself and his family. The same way all of us wish to do in terms of our respective careers.
I simply feel he wants to get "what the market will bare" for his services. The best possible deal he can get. Some may see this as not being a high character guy. Although to me, I see any person who values the best possible security for themselves and their family first, as being of very high character.
JMHO
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My thoughts too Pit.
I don't think its so much of a matter of not wanting to play here. I think his agent has him convinced he's worth more then what the Browns have been offering. I know we tagged him at 10 mill for next year but maybe the Browns are only offering 7mill a year in a long term deal and his agent thinks he's worth 8mill plus a year and that is why we gave him the opportunity to seek a deal on his own and as long as its not outrageous the Browns will match it.
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I think you should give him a pass on this visit before we scream simply greedy. It is after all his first dance request, how do you turn that down?
You turn it down when the words 'constant change' and 'tired of losing', etc. come out of your mouth.
But, I digress. If the Jaguars offer him the money, let him walk.
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I look at it as more than just wanting money.
I think that for Mack...he wants two things. To be wanted and to have a long term deal. This may be more just posturing. At the same time, this is exactly what the Browns want. If he agrees to a deal, they get what they want. They want to negotiate a deal, but haven't been able to come to one, but they don't want him to walk free...So they get their long term deal...and they get Mack. And Mack gets to feel wanted, and he gets his long term deal.
I think it's all fine. If they give him a deal that's too rich for us...which means we would've created an acrimonious situation trying to get him signed, and we don't overpay for him either. It all sounds gravy to me.
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It has to start somehow
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really? of all teams.. the Jags? c'mon son!
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really? of all teams.. the Jags? c'mon son!
You'd think that if he wanted to leave in order to improve his chances for success and winning, the Jags would be a team he'd avoid right?
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really? of all teams.. the Jags? c'mon son!
You'd think that if he wanted to leave in order to improve his chances for success and winning, the Jags would be a team he'd avoid right?
And Cleveland can't be too far behind. Either he simply wants to leave or he is seeking the biggest payday possible.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If he wants Revis type money do you think a lineman is worth $10+mil per year in a zone blocking scheme?
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so its not about winning-- its about the money..... who would've guessed....
I hope this thing comes to some sort of conclusion before the draft, otherwise we could get stuck in kind of a tough spot. It almost forces the browns to be aggressive in the draft and find a center- and i'm sure that would sit well with Mack. It seems ridiculous to spend $10 mil on a center, if the jags want to, so be it.
Does it count as a poison pill if its a two year deal, 10 mil guaranteed first year and then a Revis style 20 mil the second year. Or if it is a 10 mil guaranteed one year with no option to franchise at expiration of one year deal??? I would say yes- the intent is to be a poison pill but how would the league see it???
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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...eet-in-a-secondThe Jaguars threw a little extra spice into the annual free-agency stew over the weekend, as CBS Sports NFL Insider Jason La Canfora reported Jacksonville could be "in play" for Browns center Alex Mack. Mack was given the transition tag by Cleveland, giving them the opportunity to match any offer sheets presented by other teams. Mack met with the Jags, La Canfora reports, and Jacksonville, who's sitting on plenty of cap space, could attempt to structure an offer in such a manner that Cleveland would have difficulty matching it. It might not matter, though. A source tells Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio the Browns will match a $22 million guaranteed offer -- that is, as of now, only a reported number -- "in a second." The same source tells Florio it's "nuts" ... essentially pointing out how quickly the Browns would match $22 million. The bigger kicker here is the Browns have $5 million more in cap space than the Jags. Despite Mack's agent Marvin Demoff believing he can craft an offer that Cleveland can't match, they can, theoretically, match any offer the Jags put out there. Certainly there's a breaking point somewhere on what they'll pay, but we don't what that is yet. Cleveland's already coughing up $10 million in guaranteed money for their center in 2014 alone. It sounds like they'd be fine with spending even more over a longer stretch.
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I'm kinda on the wagon of move greco to center and draft a guard or just draft a center. Mack is good, but Center might be the least important worry for us in our scheme. I know Centers usually make the line calls etc, but if i remember right, macks first year or so we had steinbach making the calls? Maybe i remember that wrong. I don't think with all the extensions we should be taking care of we should be sinking 10+ a year into a center. Esp one thats not the best in the game.
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Actually I am of the opinion that Center has become more and more important as defenses have realized that in order to consistently get to the QB, rushing right up the middle is vital. So many good QB get rid of the ball so quickly that they almost have to commit to a rush right up the middle to get there as quick as possible, and the Center is where the protection starts in that case.
We have one of the best, as well as one of the most durable, and letting him walk away makes no sense to me whatsoever. Greco is untested at Center, and this doesn't seem to be a great draft fr the position from what I have read. Further, if we draft a franchise QB in this draft, Mack would be a huge security blanket for him. No sense setting a rookie QB back from the start when we don't have to.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Is Hank Fraley available?
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I'm fine with paying Mack but I'm not that happy about it. Center isn't where i'd prefer to have a stud on the line, actually the spot I care least about. But it isn't the worst thing in the world to have a good, if not slightly overpaid center.
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This was all inevitable from the start. Free agency dies down, a team now has time to sit down and negotiate with Mack, and then we match whatever offer they make.
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Quote:
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Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
According to my train of thought all along, nothing makes me wonder about this. I've never thought any of this was about not wanting to play here. Or that he had a preference about playing on a possible SB team.
I've felt all along his goal was to get the best deal possible for the security of himself and his family. The same way all of us wish to do in terms of our respective careers.
I simply feel he wants to get "what the market will bare" for his services. The best possible deal he can get. Some may see this as not being a high character guy. Although to me, I see any person who values the best possible security for themselves and their family first, as being of very high character.
JMHO
LOL............I don't mean this in a negative or harsh way, but it sure seems as if it did indeed make you wonder.
Don't read too much into my original comment, bro.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89 |
Quote:
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Jacksonville? They might be one of the couple of franchises that are more inept than ours.
Makes you wonder, huh?
Exactly my thought.
All the speculation on this board about him being tired of losing ... Jacksonville sure would be a cure for that. It's obviously about the cash.
I think you should give him a pass on this visit before we scream simply greedy. It is after all his first dance request, how do you turn that down?
Never said he shouldn't go and visit. But to say him looking at Jax for something other than money is absurd. He is looking for the best deal he can get, I get that. But don't say he is "tired of losing" as a reason to consider Jax. All they can offer is no state income tax ... and that goes back to the money.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Well I didn't say he said he was tired of losing and Jacksonville has nicer weather more like a California kid is used to and of course there is the ladies on the beaches. However, all I was saying was someone has finally asked him to visit and he took the opportunity. I think we should give him at least one place to visit before we vilify him for being a greedy scum sucking pig.
#GMSTRONG
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack Transition Tag in FA
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