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Wow, that is shocking, to be honest.
Like I mentioned before, my Dad made very good bank while I was growing up, but we were never "those people" that you heard about living really extravagant lifestyles (driving around super fancy cars, living in over-the-top houses, etc).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Wow, that is shocking, to be honest.
Like I mentioned before, my Dad made very good bank while I was growing up, but we were never "those people" that you heard about living really extravagant lifestyles (driving around super fancy cars, living in over-the-top houses, etc).
Which is the exact misconception people have when they protest the 1%. What they are really protesting is the 0.001%... There are a lot of rather ordinary doctors, lawyers, sales executives, etc. in the 1%.
yebat' Putin
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Wow, that is shocking, to be honest.
Like I mentioned before, my Dad made very good bank while I was growing up, but we were never "those people" that you heard about living really extravagant lifestyles (driving around super fancy cars, living in over-the-top houses, etc).
My dad made darn good money - especially for around here. Mom made good money as a teacher. Us kids just never knew it.
Wanna talk about living below your means? My parents were the epitome - and they are now reaping the rewards (have been for a while actually).
Imagine the head of a large business driving a 5 speed plymouth horizon hatchback to work. Imagine the head of a large business - well, imagine his son (me) wearing t-shirts to school from the summer basketball teams I was on. That was pretty much my wardrobe in high school. I didn't know they were rich.
My 7th grade football game shoes were my 12th grade practice shoes (yeah, mom bought them large when I was in 7th grade)
I did get new basketball shoes each year - and the following year, those became my school shoes, from 7th grade through high school. I wasn't allowed to get "Air Jordan" shoes until I was a sr. So, at my summer job, I made my own, with spray paint.
And honestly - growing up was a great time. I learned that living below your means is a good thing. I wish I had remembered that.
I have no clue what my parents are "worth" in money terms - but I do know what they are worth in "real" terms.
I don't remember stuff they bought - I do remember what they taught - and I'm getting back to that.
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Quote:
Quote:
Wow, that is shocking, to be honest.
Like I mentioned before, my Dad made very good bank while I was growing up, but we were never "those people" that you heard about living really extravagant lifestyles (driving around super fancy cars, living in over-the-top houses, etc).
Which is the exact misconception people have when they protest the 1%. What they are really protesting is the 0.001%... There are a lot of rather ordinary doctors, lawyers, sales executives, etc. in the 1%.
No, we know how much they make. It still does not change the facts about income inequality.
Swish, as long as you find something you like that isn't a material possession you should be OK happiness wise. I have a lot a friends who are extremely rich who really just love to travel and to see the history of places and they can't be happier. I also have some friends who are richer than them and spend all their money on clothes and cars and other materialistic junk (albeit cool junk) who just hate their lives and go into some pretty deep depressions.
So don't get caught up in the money if you don't know what you want to spend it on.
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No, we know how much they make. It still does not change the facts about income inequality.
I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that if you asked 100 people on the street what constitutes the 1% that 99% of them would say over $1M. A lot would say even more than that.
To crack the top 10% you just need to go beyond 100k. Hardly anyone would guess that off the top of their head if they just listened to the media.
Each person finds happiness in different ways. Some people like stuff, some people like to travel, others don't care if they have any money at all. The key is to find what makes YOU happy. It always amazes me that people consistently say that people with stuff are unhappy and miserable. I just don't see that; if they are unhappy it is for reasons beyond the stuff they own which would likely be the case whether they are rich or poor. I'm sure there are just as many unhappy poor, middle class, and upper middle class people as there are in the "rich" people.
Bottom line, find what makes YOU happy and don't listen to anyone else because only YOU can answer what happiness is.
#gmstrong
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I didn't even realize those numbers. I should be feeling a lot wealthier than I do. 
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I didn't even realize those numbers. I should be feeling a lot wealthier than I do.
I agree . I knew the numbers weren't as high as most people think, however I would have guessed around 600k to be in the top 1%.
#gmstrong
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No, we know how much they make. It still does not change the facts about income inequality.
I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that if you asked 100 people on the street what constitutes the 1% that 99% of them would say over $1M. A lot would say even more than that.
To crack the top 10% you just need to go beyond 100k. Hardly anyone would guess that off the top of their head if they just listened to the media.
Each person finds happiness in different ways. Some people like stuff, some people like to travel, others don't care if they have any money at all. The key is to find what makes YOU happy. It always amazes me that people consistently say that people with stuff are unhappy and miserable. I just don't see that; if they are unhappy it is for reasons beyond the stuff they own which would likely be the case whether they are rich or poor. I'm sure there are just as many unhappy poor, middle class, and upper middle class people as there are in the "rich" people.
Bottom line, find what makes YOU happy and don't listen to anyone else because only YOU can answer what happiness is.
To go along with that, I know people, and am friends with them - that make well over $500,000 a year. Some of them are happy, some arent.
I have friends that make between $60 - 100,000 a year - some are happy, some aren't.
And, I have friends, with a family, that make $30,000 a year. Some are happy, some aren't.
What to take from this? We all have wants, and getting those wants doesn't lead to "happy".
As long as the minimum bills can be paid, money doesn't bring happiness. The more you make, the more bills you have.
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 It's really not.
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That's a neat graph.
Can you post a graph of who pays taxes? That would be neat to see as well.
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Not really sure what that has to do with income inequality, but I'm never one to disappoint. 
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jc.
i don't see why me wanted to afford nice things is such a bad thing. thats MY american dream, it doesn't have to be the same as some of you.
i understand though guys like GM and such who are telling me to make sure its something i love doing over chasing a job just to bring it serious cash. i get that and i hope that i can implement that into my decision.
by i don't see why having a driveway with a lift and being able to buy a small state is such a bad thing.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
jc.
i don't see why me wanted to afford nice things is such a bad thing. thats MY american dream, it doesn't have to be the same as some of you.
i understand though guys like GM and such who are telling me to make sure its something i love doing over chasing a job just to bring it serious cash. i get that and i hope that i can implement that into my decision.
by i don't see why having a driveway with a lift and being able to buy a small state is such a bad thing.
It's horrible!!! It's not fair!!!! It's unequal!!!! Ugh. There is nothing at all wrong with what you want Swish - go for it. America needs people that want to reach for the stars. The wrong people are those who say you shouldn't have it because it is not "equal". The income inequality crap really gets me riled up as I, right or wrong, just see it as jealousy.
#gmstrong
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I'm just saying you most likely will not find happiness in that. Not saying that you should quit consumption all together either. Let's face it, it feels good buying a Rick Owens jacket that costs a car. I'm just saying, if that's your be all end all, then you will most likely have some depression.
Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't do this. I'm all for it, read my first post in this thread. I'm just saying you will be happier if you're spending money on things that aren't just cars and clothes.
Last edited by CHSDawg; 03/18/14 09:13 PM.
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Looks like a whole bunch of people need to be more creative, find some passion, and work harder.
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I'm just saying you most likely will not find happiness in that. Not saying that you should quit consumption all together either. Let's face it, it feels good buying a Rick Owens jacket that costs a car. I'm just saying, if that's your be all end all, then you will most likely have some depression.
I just don't understand that line of thinking. How can you possibly tell what someone will and will not find happiness in? Who says he isn't happy now and will be happier if he gets the material things he wants? You are just as likely to find depression in other ways as well IMO. I believe if you are going to be depressed, then it is going to happen no matter what.
Now, if you are unhappy and feel that money will buy you happiness, then I can possibly see your argument. Money will certainly NOT buy happiness. I guess the thought is that the person wanting more money is unhappy currently?
#gmstrong
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I'm not trying to start an argument here about the income inequality. I posted the graph to show people that the income inequality is worse than what people actually think it is and not the other way around (Like some posters wish it was).
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Quote:
I'm just saying you most likely will not find happiness in that. Not saying that you should quit consumption all together either. Let's face it, it feels good buying a Rick Owens jacket that costs a car. I'm just saying, if that's your be all end all, then you will most likely have some depression.
Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't do this. I'm all for it, read my first post in this thread. I'm just saying you will be happier if you're spending money on things that aren't just cars and clothes.
if not spend it on cars and clothes, than what? a house? i want it. stocks? i'm already invested. savings plan for retirement? already have it.
i get what you mean CHS, and i got you, trust me i do. but i have the life. i have a wife thats working, beautiful woman. i have 2 kids, ages 5 and 3. i had a good run in the military.
but now i just wanna ball out of control. of course i'm going to have enough money to send my kids to college for 6 years so they can get an MBA.
but after all the "important" stuff is financed, i wanna do donuts in the wal mart parking lot with a ferrari and have mall security chasing me down. nothing wrong with that.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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How is that graph showing it is worse? If the top 10% is around 100K, and that graph is measured by 20%, well the top 20% isn't that much money at all. Most professional career type jobs are going to put you in the top 20%. That graph illustrates nothing. It's a reach at best.
No Craps Given
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I'm not trying to start an argument here about the income inequality. I posted the graph to show people that the income inequality is worse than what people actually think it is and not the other way around (Like some posters wish it was).
I think most posters you are referring to just don't CARE that there is "income inequality". I don't give a darn how much someone makes. If they make more than me fine, if they make less than me, fine. I'm not going to think any more or less of them.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not trying to start an argument here about the income inequality. I posted the graph to show people that the income inequality is worse than what people actually think it is and not the other way around (Like some posters wish it was).
I think most posters you are referring to just don't CARE that there is "income inequality". I don't give a darn how much someone makes. If they make more than me fine, if they make less than me, fine. I'm not going to think any more or less of them.
basically.
i guess the bleeding heart part of me, i really only start caring about the income inequality when it comes to those who stack money to buy their politician votes. its almost like the little guy has a very little chance to succeed.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not trying to start an argument here about the income inequality. I posted the graph to show people that the income inequality is worse than what people actually think it is and not the other way around (Like some posters wish it was).
I think most posters you are referring to just don't CARE that there is "income inequality". I don't give a darn how much someone makes. If they make more than me fine, if they make less than me, fine. I'm not going to think any more or less of them.
If you didn't care about income inequality then why did you post about how it was blown out of proportion (which it's not)?
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It looks like we're on the same page, but I'm just crap at explaining myself. Just spend it on what makes you happy.
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It looks like we're on the same page, but I'm just crap at explaining myself. Just spend it on what makes you happy.
i get what you mean. make sure the life supporting stuff is paid for before i start acting like i'm in a Diddy video.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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If you didn't care about income inequality then why did you post about how it was blown out of proportion (which it's not)?
I don't think I used those words, but I really don't care. What I care about is people moaning and complaining about it. It is just plain irritating to me. I thought I was pretty clear that I don't really care what anyone makes, how does that make me care about income inequality? I prefer to call it "some people make more than others", or "some people are smarter than others", or "some people are just plain luckier than others", or "some people work harder than others". It's not inequality though. That is a fabrication by politicians and media types to rile people up.
#gmstrong
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I can assure you income inequality is real and not just a made up thing.
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How is that graph showing it is worse? If the top 10% is around 100K, and that graph is measured by 20%, well the top 20% isn't that much money at all. Most professional career type jobs are going to put you in the top 20%. That graph illustrates nothing. It's a reach at best.
Exactly.
According to IRS documents here
Wage Earner AGI Floor percentiles for 2010:
Top 0.1 - $1.6 million ($1.4 million in 2001)
Top 1.0 - $370k ($306.6k in 2001)
Top 5.0 - $161.5k (132k)
Top 10 - $116.6k (96k)
Top 25 - $69k (59k)
Top 50 - $34k (31k)
AGI Share:
Top 0.1 - 9.24% (8.05 in 2001)
Top 1.0 - 18.87% (17.41 in 2001)
Top 5.0 - 33.78% (31.61 in 2001)
Top 10 - 45.17% (42.50 in 2001)
Top 25 - 67.55% (64.31 in 2001)
Top 50 - 88.26% (85.60 in 2001)
Total Income Tax Share:
Top 0.1 - 17.88% (15.68 in 2001)
Top 1.0 - 37.38% (33.22 in 2001)
Top 5.0 - 59.07% (52.24 in 2001)
Top 10 - 70.62% (63.68 in 2001)
Top 25 - 87.11% (81.56 in 2001)
Top 50 - 97.64% (95.10 in 2001)
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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Oh. Well it's scientifically shown that Diddy Bopping can cure any disease 
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I can assure you income inequality is real and not just a made up thing.
I am being serious here. Can you please explain it to me or give me a link? I guess I'm just dense. Why is it not equal if someone makes more than someone else? I just don't get it.
I'm sure you are going to show some graph of CEO's making more in relation to workers that is growing over time. Again, so what? It certainly isn't as if people can't make a comfortable living anymore.
#gmstrong
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It's really not.
He's talking about income, your graph is about net worth.
So if you take Mark Zuckerberg (Age 29), his income is about $1 billion per year. His net worth is approximately $30 billion.
Now take Joe Schmoe, who is an engineer (Age 29), his salary is $60K per year. His networth, since he is paying on his car, just bought a house, and just recently started contributing to his 401K, is negative, we'll say -$150,000.
Joe, who has a nice professional income and has started a nice career and is on the road to doing fairly well, is in the bottom 20% of your graph for networth.
Now let's take Sally, Sally is a nurse, she's age 29 also, she hasn't bought a house yet, has diligently saved and contributed to her retirement so in her 6 years of working, she has amassed a networth of $20K.
If you are looking at networth, it takes 1.5 million Sally's to equal 1 Mark Zuckerberg on your graph.
There are, according to Forbes, 442 billionaires in the United States, what a graph like yours attempts to show is that anybody in red or blue is destitute, when that is not even close to the truth. Joe and Sally are both doing pretty well for themselves but your graph puts them at or near the bottom of the spectrum...
yebat' Putin
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The graph is a representative of real numbers and facts. It doesn't show anything, we make assumptions off of it. What the graph shows is that there is a severe income inequality.  There's one that doesn't focus on net worth, but on after taxes revenue. These numbers are important because in society's that have a large income disparity have revolutions.
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Are you asking me to explain to you that income inequality is a real thing or why income inequality is bad?
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Are you asking me to explain to you that income inequality is a real thing or why income inequality is bad?
That it is a real thing, and therefore why it is bad since I don't believe in it whatsoever. Of course you can show some people make more than others, to me that isn't inequality - I just don't understand the premise of this. To me it should be called "I'm jealous that I don't make as much as someone else". There is plenty of opportunity to make a comfortable living IMO. In fact, there is plenty of opportunity to make an outstanding living. The income inequality is just a way to divide the people even further; the hatred of "rich" people in this country is just ridiculous.
#gmstrong
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Well, you have the numbers right there. It's obviously real. Do you just have a problem with the name of "income inequality"?
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Well, you have the numbers right there. It's obviously real. Do you just have a problem with the name of "income inequality"?
I guess I don't understand the perceived problem with it. And yes, I absolutely have an issue with anything around the name income inequality. To me it should be called income jealousy. I'd be OK with that.
Like I said above, you'd attach a pretty graph that shows that some people make more money than others. Neat. It has been that way since the beginning of time. The nice thing about our system is that anyone can make it if they have the drive and want to take a risk (the risk is the tricky part). You are likely one of the people that do not believe that is possible anymore, but I have seen first hand many times people who came from nothing become very successful.
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Well, the problem isn't the fact that you're making more. It's just how much more. In an idealistic society the rich would become x amount richer over time, but everyone else would be getting richer by ~x. To make this into a simple math problem as I don't believe I'm explaining this well it'd be something like this:
Rich growth = 2+1=3
Rest growth = 1+1=2
Instead it's more like
Rich growth = 2^2 = 4
Rest Growth = 1 +.5 = 1.5
Over a long enough period it becomes a problem.
That's not really true though. There are a lot of opportunities presented to just a few people. That's the way capitalism is built. That said, people need to take advantage of the capitalistic system until they want to change it.
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Well, you have the numbers right there. It's obviously real. Do you just have a problem with the name of "income inequality"?
Income inequality. What is it based on? So, columbus makes more money than I do? Does that make it unfair? Hey - he does something I can't do. Is that unfair? Not at all.
The surgeon in town that has a million dollar house, with a building for nothing other than a pool, and another building that has nothing but a full size basketball court in it - is that unfair? Hey, he does something I can't do.
Me making more than my neighbor - is that unfair? Hey, I do something he can't do.
Income inequality.........blah. Perhaps I should be upset, or columbus, or the surgeon........perhaps we all should be upset that we don't get as much from the gov't. as some others do. Gov't. inequality. It's not fair. People that don't earn as much as me get reduced prices or free stuff. I don't. It's not fair.
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Quote:
Well, the problem isn't the fact that you're making more. It's just how much more. In an idealistic society the rich would become x amount richer over time, but everyone else would be getting richer by ~x. To make this into a simple math problem as I don't believe I'm explaining this well it'd be something like this:
Rich growth = 2+1=3
Rest growth = 1+1=2
Instead it's more like
Rich growth = 2^2 = 4
Rest Growth = 1 +.5 = 1.5
Over a long enough period it becomes a problem.
That's not really true though. There are a lot of opportunities presented to just a few people. That's the way capitalism is built. That said, people need to take advantage of the capitalistic system until they want to change it.
Take another look at the graph you posted. It seems to me the "less than rich" consistently increased their income since 1979 while the "rich" had highs and lows.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
So now you're problem is that the rich don't have steady growth despite still being in a better place than everyone else by far? Also that really doesn't change what I said at all despite a few years where they have a sizeable drop they quickly recoup that money and come back stronger.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,932 Likes: 114
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,932 Likes: 114 |
Quote:
Quote:
Well, you have the numbers right there. It's obviously real. Do you just have a problem with the name of "income inequality"?
Income inequality. What is it based on? So, columbus makes more money than I do? Does that make it unfair? Hey - he does something I can't do. Is that unfair? Not at all.
The surgeon in town that has a million dollar house, with a building for nothing other than a pool, and another building that has nothing but a full size basketball court in it - is that unfair? Hey, he does something I can't do.
Me making more than my neighbor - is that unfair? Hey, I do something he can't do.
Income inequality.........blah. Perhaps I should be upset, or columbus, or the surgeon........perhaps we all should be upset that we don't get as much from the gov't. as some others do. Gov't. inequality. It's not fair. People that don't earn as much as me get reduced prices or free stuff. I don't. It's not fair.
i look at as more of a tax equality issue. If most middle class workers are taxed at or near 15% on personal income. I would expect people making more personal income to pay the same percentage. You know to be fair. Nothing wrong for asking for a fair shake on how we are taxed on personal income is there? We all should be taxed at the same percentage rate on our personal income. And not allow for the top 1% earners to hide their earnings off shore to avoid paying their fair share in taxes.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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