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Hawkins IS a 4 year contract. That's the point there. The deal was structured so that the Bengals couldn't match, and so the Browns would have an ascending player with a descending contract, and afford to keep him for all 4 years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hawkins also IS 28yo and never had back to back healthy seasons, not even one completely healthy season. You should also list all of the NFL's slot WR and their age and see how many play at above AVG level at 31+....Wes Welker aaaand who? I see little to no chance that he'll even stay healthy for the next two years. We should thank god if he does.
If you think it's smart to pay up front for "potential" then you're easy to fool. The biggest joy people take out of it is that we "fooled" the Bengals, but the joke is on us. Imagine you're skinny Hawkins. Why even play hard beyond this season? You'll get two high dollar years and then? Who cares? He'll scream "I'm a millionaire" from the rooftops. Same happened to us with that dumbass contract extension for Bess. Paying up front more often than not is bad business.
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A lot of slot receivers get hurt.They are typically smaller guys, who go up against the big boys in the middle. Moore has never started, and has played 7, 16, 14, 15, and 13 games in his last 5 years in New Orleans. He has had anywhere from 157 yards receiving, to 1041. He also has had a truly great QB throwing to him. Moore will be 31 when the season starts. Hawkins will be 28 until next off-season. Let's look at Hawkins, and compare him to Moore. Moore is 5'9" and 190#. Hawkins is 5'7" and 180#. Hawkins is probably built to better withstand impact. He has a denser body. He also seems to know how to avoid damaging contact. He was largely healthy his 1st 2 seasons, and had an ankle injury last year, It's not like he got destroyed by someone. He hurt an ankle, which can happen to any player, and missed some time. I am not worried about that. I hear people complaining because we signed an older OLB, and got very slightly older at SS ....... but who are upset because we signed a younger player at WR and RB.  I'm not saying that this is necessarily you ...... but I think that some people are complaining just to complain. We aren't going to "win" free agency. As I noted above, the Broncos won free agency the year they signed Peyton manning .... won it hands down ..... and still haven't won a Super Bowl. This past year who did they lose to? A team that has drafted quite possibly better than any other team over the past 3-4 years. We filled 4 spots this off-season, plus the backup TE spot. We'll probably add another player or 2 for depth before the season starts. However, I suspect that we will see the majority of our action in the draft. This is as it should be. We cannot build a winner by spending like fools in free agency. Specific players to fill specific holes, and those players being players who fit are the way to go. I think that's what we have done so far this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. 
GO BROWNS!
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My point was Moore + Asamoah/Schwartz > Hawkins + Need at OG...simple as that. Winning the cap contest in 2016 or 2017 is not a convincing argument to me, sorry.
For the same money, I'd still consider it a toss up between Hawkins and Moore. One has more flashy upside left, the other is a known, dependable commodity. Given our situation at QB, WR and Offense in general, I'd probably still take Moore for similar money, but would have been ok with Hawkins.
...and btw, the "going older at one position and younger/upside at other positions" is part of why I don't see a plan. If we sign Dansby and Whitner who are older, then a Moore and going for a Revis or Byrd and even Schaub would have made more sense...win now, right? We have the young AllPros, we have the cap, go for it...complement them with proven vets, right? why not? I'd be on board, we have the cap and the deals would not have killed future seasons...
Instead, we have sniffed around Schaub, wasted valuable early FA time on Revis while being cheap to pay a 3rd day pick for a trade....signed an older Dansby over DQ (which, again, I liked), swapped 4-6 years of prime years of Ward for 2-3 of Whitner, THEN turned around and signed some younger backup hopefulls (not even proven starters) who can start/contribute in Tate and Hawkins. Signed a backup blocking TE we didn't really need for way too much money, although we already had a pretty good one and a handful of developmental projects for TE3 (Gray, Smith, Milton etc)...
It just makes ZERO sense. My money is on "they're in over their heads", sorry....it reeks of it imho
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It just makes ZERO sense. My money is on "they're in over their heads", sorry....it reeks of it imho
I think it makes more than zero sense. Although I would feel a lot better about things if we signed one of the better guards.
I am still at the "wait and see point" as I usually am because pretty much none of our front offices get to prove themselves.
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I have disagreed w/DJ a lot since I was permitted to rejoin the board, but come on, YTown............what has Hawkins done to deserve that much money?
And are you really denying that Moore and Asamoah wouldn't have been a better value than Hawkins? Sheesh!
I wanted Asamoah or Beadles over any other player out there. I was arguing against Schwartz, but that was only because I was convinced we would grab a guard and I preferred the other two. I would have much rather had Schwartz than Hawkins. I wanted Vedlheer, too. Instead, we go WR and RB.
Frustrating.
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Asamoah was gone the 1st day of free agency. Who is to say that we didn't call him up and say that we would love to make him an outrageously overpaid member of the Browns, only to have him say "Thanks, but no thanks"? He went to the Falcons, a team with recent success, and to Atlanta, a much warmer climate than Cleveland, and a city with a far more bustling night life than Cleveland.
Who knows if we ever had a shot at him?
As far as Dansby and Whitner vs DQ and Ward ...... it is obvious that they felt that the guys they signed fit the defense, and those they let walk, did not. As I have said before, Ward (and/or his agent) had spoke about making him the highest paid Safety in the NFL, and a number of $8 million/year was thrown around in some reports. If they stayed on that number, then why wouldn;t the Browns look elsewhere? Ward is not worth $8 million/year, and they found a comparable to better (for this defense, especially) Safety in Whitner, for less than Ward was demanding.
Further, I think that Whitner will bring a leadership aspect sorely missing in Ward and DQ. He, and Dansby, have been part of the leadership of teams that have turned things around in recent years. It is hard to overestimate how important that is.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have disagreed w/DJ a lot since I was permitted to rejoin the board, but come on, YTown............what has Hawkins done to deserve that much money?
And are you really denying that Moore and Asamoah wouldn't have been a better value than Hawkins? Sheesh!
I wanted Asamoah or Beadles over any other player out there. I was arguing against Schwartz, but that was only because I was convinced we would grab a guard and I preferred the other two. I would have much rather had Schwartz than Hawkins. I wanted Vedlheer, too. Instead, we go WR and RB.
Frustrating.
Again, did we ever have a shot at Asamoah ..... or Beadles? (and I had some concerns about Beadles, given that Manning makes any OL look good) These guys were gone before day 1. Who is to say that we didn't invite them only to be turned down? Same thing with Veldheer. You cannot make someone visit and/or sign with your team. OL tend to stick together, and maybe Mack wanting to leave had an impact on other OL. Who knows?
Further, you are taking one signing and assuming that it precludes us making a signing at a different position. Why would that be true? If we really wanted to sign another player right now, is there any financial reason we couldn't? (Unless they wanted to be the highest paid player in the NFL .... maybe)
As far as Hawkins, the Browns wanted him, have the cap room to accommodate a contact that the Bengals would not match, and could sign him to a contract that was completely front loaded to preserve cap space in years 3-4 of the deal. You are looking at the money, but the money is really irrelevant at this point. They structured a deal that the Bengals would not match, one that we could easily handle under our cap, and one that preserves financial flexibility for the Browns in future seasons. They got the player they wanted, and they will not be hamstrung in future seasons because f his contract. To me, that's well done.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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One other thing to consider is that the Browns kept extra OL last year to develop.
I wonder if we have anyone that the front office likes to take a step up.
Reid Fragel is supposed to be a fit for a zone blocking team, though he is very inexperienced. I don't know much about Jeremiah Warren or Martin Wallace. Other teams develop OL out of nowhere. Could we? Do we have anyone who has promise?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Asamoah was gone the 1st day of free agency. Who is to say that we didn't call him up and say that we would love to make him an outrageously overpaid member of the Browns, only to have him say "Thanks, but no thanks"? He went to the Falcons, a team with recent success, and to Atlanta, a much warmer climate than Cleveland, and a city with a far more bustling night life than Cleveland.
Who knows if we ever had a shot at him?
Good point ... just because we didn't land someone, or even had them in for a meet, doesn't mean we didn't reach out.
Also, just because there was someone I thought would be a great pick-up doesn't mean that the FO agreed. Maybe they thought it over and decided the guy was not a good fit. That doesn't necessarily make them stupid.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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I just believe with 3 to 4 legit. G's on the FA market, trying to say "Maybe none of them even wanted to listen to us" is a bit of a reach. Which is what was suggested.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We have to agree to disagree on the FA narrative. I don't believe for a second that those players never even listened to our offers. Agents would be foolish to advise that, if only to gain leverage elsewhere. Beadles went to JAX of all places after playing for a ring in Denver. I think he is overrated and cost too much, but he too would have been an upgrade.
The other point you're trying to sell is that Asamoah and the other OGs were gone quickly and we had not enough time to move on them...well, FA is about priorities too. We wasted day one on Revis and moved quickly on an RFA in Hawkins which is stupid on many levels and a dead giveaway that noobs were at work, as those guys can wait since they won't go anywhere....see Mack, he's an AllPro, did he get an offer yet?
I just fail to see how "it takes two to tango" or even "right player, right price" are viable arguments, because of its inconsistencies. We got Dansby and Whitner and threw a ton of money at Hawkins. Again, as far as I can see we could (and did) have gotten any player we wanted....and that's the problem part: what we DID and thus wanted and what we didn't...
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Just clicking but I'd like to add one more FACT.
Assume its fact - Polian had stated it as a fact on ESPN Mike n mike show.
For the last 5 years running. The team DEEMED as the big winner in the FA signings. DID NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!! Not did not make it to the SB...did not make it to the PLAYOFFS.
Just thought I'd bring that fact up. Of course it doesn't mean the 6th time will not make the playoffs. Just stating - you don't build a team via FA market - Its all about the draft. For teams like us we are filling holes to go into the draft pretty much on a BPA basis and not urgent need. For teams like NE and Denver they got QBs who have a window of prime play left the odds of them filling Brady's and Manning's position with equal prowess are well slim to none. So they both are going for the SB and piling on talent as long as they got the cap space. Both are going for broke...at LEAST ONE OF THEM will fail...
jmho - someday I hope we are in that place.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Yeah, and another fact is that 20+ FA started in last year's SBowl...now what?
Fact is also that the Ravens and Giants had much less cap money and less needs and still filled most of their needs with starter caliber guys in this FA...I trust Ozzie's and Reese's expertise more than Farmer/Kuharchick (sp?)
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Where I see the big difference in the debate as it stands, is some feel we filled holes that were created and not one's we already had going into the off season. Tate, Hawkins and an unknown TE are all needs that were filled. But many see Dansby and Whitner as only mild upgrades to positions that were "chosen" to upgrade rather than a need per say going into the off season. Just a gauge of what I'm sensing in reading the thread. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Mild upgrades or big upgrades? Upgrades are upgrades... so isn't that a good thing?
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Yeah, and another fact is that 20+ FA started in last year's SBowl...now what? I stated that SB ready teams invest. signing Manning in FA was the key reason Denver went there. Sorry don't see a Manning there. you can give then 19 more FA n take away Manning - they ain't going anywhere.
Seattle built their team through the draft. I see two trades in Harvin and Lynch...so I'm wondering just what big investment did they make in FA??? You know the SB winners. Can only assume a lot of 2nd tier investments and some depth.
I have no idea why you are actually gloating like you proved something. We are neither Denver nor Seattle. We actually are at Seattle around 3 years ago - we need that Wilson to get us over the hump. NOT A LOT OF FA expenditures.
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Mild upgrades or big upgrades? Upgrades are upgrades... so isn't that a good thing?
I don't see it as a bad thing. My comment was just the sense of what I was getting from what I had read in the thread.
I still say that people trying to say that of the top 3 or 4 G prospects, none would listen to us is a weak argument though.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Given the Brown's track record in terms of Free Agency and the nature of how we've stocked piled picks for this draft - one can only bank the true success of this upcoming season and seasons thereafter on this draft.
We've seen teams go all-out in free agency and the creations of so-called "dream teams" that really never amounted to much of the hype.
I am 100% okay with the splash they've made in free agency. Going around and throwing a bunch of money out is more risk than reward, especially for 'our' team! jmo
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Quote:
Mild upgrades or big upgrades? Upgrades are upgrades... so isn't that a good thing?
I don't see it as a bad thing. My comment was just the sense of what I was getting from what I had read in the thread.
I still say that people trying to say that of the top 3 or 4 G prospects, none would listen to us is a weak argument though.
Not sure how they would know if we even tried to talk them let alone if they listened to us.
That's just talk. Meaningless talk..
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That's exactly my point.
I'm not asking Farmer to fill every need with Dansby-like players. I just want most of them addressed BEFORE the draft with smart, solid, AVG talent...it's not like we didn't need the depth anyway, so it would not alter our draft board, but lessen the urgency for panicked need picks or uptrades.
Signings/trades like Zuttah, M.Manningham, L.Moore are smart moves. Buying low with good reward chances and no risk. We did mostly the opposite.
Ozzie spent a couple of mid rounders for a top 10 LT in Monroe, that's why the Ravens are the Ravens and the Jaguars are the Jaguars. One team has improved a core position tremendously while buying low, the other has done a lateral move by drafting another OT just when the former top pick LT has developed into something good. There in a nutshell you have a smart and a stupid team. We're more like the JAX with our plethora of lateral moves and tendency to re-load every freaking year through the draft although we're already the youngest team....that's not smart roster management, and yes, that's my opinion and just that.
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Signings/trades like Zuttah, M.Manningham, L.Moore are smart moves. Well the Zuttah guy I think we tried - if not successful I don't think its a matter of Oziie vs Farmer - I think it to be more Ravens stability vs. our Instability.
The thought process was there.
WR - I don't see it as a NEED area as I guess you do by complaining that we didn't try for Manningham nor Moore. Of course like Zuttah there is an outside posibility that we did show interest just that we were not a team either WR wanted to talk with.
Manningham is not as good as you think. And Moore is basically Cooper 5-8 years down the road. The only position is ILB that is the only need I see us not filling and I think we tried for Moats don't know why we didn't seal the deal???
I do expect the serious investments to be in the draft and we still can pick up depth FA after the draft its not like they are going like hot cakes now. Decent depth guys will have to lower their expectations. If they have not signed yet. I doubt many will get signed without lowering.
Also It is pretty clear as a choice many FA with one will not do so until we show some stability. With some success in the season as well as no firings - I expect the mood towards us to change...and gosh what if we do that 2 years in a row 
We are not at a Chinese auction with a bundle of cash. We are building a team I'm sure there are several guys we approached that stated - Thanks but no thanks. Just like we just heard of the Zuttah - not a breath of air regarding we were interested. I'm sure we at least listened. Its not like we are talking about Schaub and a 10 mil contract. He would have to beat out Greco or Pinkston and we wouldn't probably pay him the kind of money to signify he is inked in as a starter. Good depth. Chance to compete for a starting interior position. If I was him and not a Browns fan. Sadly I'd probably say yes to the Ravens who are a year away from a SB and a No thank you to the Browns who just upheaved and put in their 4th regime since 2009.
jmho maybe not everything exactly how I would want it or do it. But all the moves make sense and seem to have us in a good place heading into a draft where we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds!
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Zuttah was traded and that means that Ozzie and Farmer talked with the Buccs GM about a compensation. Ozzie beat out Farmer by paying a 5th, which in turn mean it was too rich for Farmer. Zuttah, I think, had little to no say where he was traded to. Maybe he was willing to take more of a discount for Ozzie, but I doubt it, as he was sitting on a good contract and his agent had leverage.
Ozzie was willing to pay more for his services, that's the deal breaker.
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Zuttah was traded and that means that Ozzie and Farmer talked with the Buccs GM about a compensation. Ozzie beat out Farmer by paying a 5th, which in turn mean it was too rich for Farmer. Zuttah, I think, had little to no say where he was traded to. Maybe he was willing to take more of a discount for Ozzie, but I doubt it, as he was sitting on a good contract and his agent had leverage.
Ozzie was willing to pay more for his services, that's the deal breaker.
I missed something, I just know I did. How do we know that Farmer was seriously in the mix for Zuttah?
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beat out Farmer by paying a 5th, which in turn mean it was too rich for Farmer.
1. couldn't find the original announcement - but I could have sworn that part of the deal was reworking the last year of his contract??? Would that not have his, Zuttah's, willingness to come here over the Ravens involved?
2. Did you even think that the Ravens are in more need of an Interior OL man than us. Do you think Shipley and Gradkowski are a better combo than Greco n Mack.
The Ravens have a bigger need than we do.
Oh this from the Ravens sight. btw its a 2015 draft pick.
He is signed through the 2015 season, and reportedly carries a $4.5 million salary cap hit this year. However, the Ravens and Zuttah plan on working out a long-term contract extension, which would lower the cap figure for 2014, according to The Baltimore Sun.
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I just believe with 3 to 4 legit. G's on the FA market, trying to say "Maybe none of them even wanted to listen to us" is a bit of a reach. Which is what was suggested.
How many of those free agent OL agreed to terms on, or before, the official 1st day of free agency? The top guys made one visit, and were done. (just like the guys we signed immediately did) For us, Whitner had a strong desire to play for his favorite team. Maybe other players had a similar desire ..... maybe some possibly had a former coach in place, family in the area, and so on. Some want to win. Some want to win while also making the biggest paycheck they can, and their agent calculates the team that gives his player the best opportunity for this double play.
Players have a ton of reasons for not signing with a particular team, and it's not always "The team never reached out to, or pursued them". In fact, that might not even be the case with most free agents. With so many top free agents going one and done in trips, it is obvious that many have a preferred destination in mind from the get go, and when there if mutual interest, that's where they wind up.
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NRTU Eo, I wanted to chime in on the "mild" upgrades comments. isn't "mild" upgrades what we really needed on our defense? How many games did we lose in the 4th quarter when our defense couldn't hold the lead, I can think of 2 right off the bat......NE and JAX. I am not saying that Ward and Jackson were the reasons, but IF Whitner and Dansby are considered mild upgrades..........doesn't that improve what many would consider a pretty decent defense and make it even better? FA'gency is not the end all be all.......we need help in more positions obviously, but it is a bonus. Isn't FA'gency supposed to be used to push something that may already be good, into the "better" category? Don't Whitner and Dansby arguably do that? The draft is were we will become contenders or not. Whitner and Dansby should make our defense better. Tate (if he can stay healthy) should make our running game better. The draft should make our future better. I guess I am jus tired of the doom and gloom, its the end of the world talk. We are not going to be a superbowl team this year. Hopefully the draft treats us better than it has in the past and our talent evaluators have their ducks in a row. If we make the right choices then it is a real possibility that we could at least stay in the playoff conversation this year and make a real leap next year. And guess what, Whitner, Dansby, and Tate COULD/WOULD all still be young and talented enough to make that jump next year with us! I am not asking for everyone one to agree with how we have approached FA'gency this year, that would be silly. But because we have not handled it the way you would, does not mean that it wont work. Let it play out, lets see how things work out....... I love this site for its insight and football talk. When someone disagrees with you, its OK. Hell, they may even be right!!!   Sorry for my rant.........
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Hall of Famer
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#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
jc
Moats signs a one year deal with the Steelers...
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/448159630146158592
I assume Pettine knew whether we wanted Moats on this team or not -- that he didn't means I'm not too worried.
~Lyuokdea
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,997 Likes: 368 |
Quote:
jc
Moats signs a one year deal with the Steelers...
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/448159630146158592
So?
I was never all that excited about the possibility of us signing him. What does he really do particularly well? He hasn't had a sack in 2 years. He has exactly 1 pass defended in his career. In 4 years, he has forced 2 fumbles, and recovered 1. Hie next INT will be his 1st. He's OK ...... but hardly a superstar. He got a 1 year deal. He wasn't highly sought after. He's a body ...... but hardly an impact player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,103 Likes: 1365 |
Every team had the same opportunity to deal with the agents prior top the FA signing periods. I still find it a silly assumption that none of the top 3 or 4 G's on the FA market and their agents would turn down legit. offers from us had we been in the mix. Say what you will, but one signed with the Jags. Hey if you truly believe that, more power to you. But we seemed to sign guys they had targeted both this yaer and last. It's just that none of them have been G's. Maybe all of the G's in the NFL have their own deal that "they refuse to talk with the Browns? Or is it that all of the OLB's and DL players on the FA market have been lining up just waiting to get here? The math just doesn't add up there to me. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
jc
Moats signs a one year deal with the Steelers...
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/448159630146158592
hey Steelers, rdo not be concerned at all that it was a cheap 1 year deal, his former DC is now HC of the Browns and he STILL wanted nothing to do with the guy
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Pit...I really think we are budgeting ourselves for all starting positions even looking into the near future for new contracts to our young successes.
We figure we will have to pay for Mack. We have all intentions of signing him long term but also know we will be paying him more than likely 10 mil for this season.
I don't think we went with any HIGH PRICED FA average OGs...maybe a couple who are a little above average. Also how many were Code breakers for our Outside Zone Scheme? Do we really want to over pay for some OGs that will not be great in our system? Look at Greco and Pinkston and they at the worst would put up a good fight for the starting positions. but we would have had to pay somewheres to 4-7mil a year for the FA. Note some might have signed with the Giants or whoever but to get them here...we would have to over pay. Unless they grew up a Browns fan they will have to be enticed here via $$$$.
jmho - I'm confident we will do it in the draft and not a 7th round pie in the sky pick like Gilkey who is very raw and still needs to be developed.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I think you and Vers. are having a "Mcfly" moment when it comes to the G's. Both you guys have done nothing but complain since the start of FA about OG's. Ever hear of the draft? I'm sure it is cheaper to pay a rookie G than over spend for a FA G. Now if we did throw $$$ at a G in FA both of you guys would have been jumping up and down mad about how we over spent for a G. Vers has already stated that he likes to argue the other side of a debate so I can see why he's never happy, does not matter what we've done he's going to debate the other side. But you, like to nit pick anything and everything. You guys are two peas in a pod. Never happy and never will.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
We are not at a Chinese auction with a bundle of cash.
In all of my (long) life, I have never heard that expression! Good one, eo... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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Yeah, the Bills played a lot of 4-1-6 and 4-2-5 to keep Moats and their other linebackers not named Kiko off the field. Hopefully he starts for the Steelers.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
jc
Moats signs a one year deal with the Steelers...
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/448159630146158592
I assume Pettine knew whether we wanted Moats on this team or not -- that he didn't means I'm not too worried.
Or he did but farmer said no. In any case i have a feeling we will be drafting a inside linebacker early in this draft...probably with the 26th pick. Besides dambsy we have no real depth there....if he gets hurt we are screwed big time
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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Posts: 742
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Quote:
Assume its fact - Polian had stated it as a fact on ESPN Mike n mike show.
For the last 5 years running. The team DEEMED as the big winner in the FA signings. DID NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!! Not did not make it to the SB...did not make it to the PLAYOFFS.
How could Polian (of all people) look at Denver signing Peyton Manning and not consider them the big winners?
If you go from Tebow to Peyton Manning you won. Period.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Vers is more fixated with OG whereas for me it's one of MANY neglected need positions. Not signing an upgrade at FS, WR2, CB2 or ILB2 is as bad for me as missing out on an OG.
I am disappointed because I was excited about the possibilities in this FA. If they made more good moves (they had some), I'd be the biggest homer around.
I'm sorry if my opinion upsets you, but I see little reason to change it
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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