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Yep. Still don't get the Dray signing, unless Daniels wouldn't sign with us because we have a losing tradition and no quarterback, but they should have at least made the effort if they wanted a TE.
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Who said he would start. The question is whether or not Daniels is better or worse than the guy we signed? Heck, I can't even remember the chump's name. I do remember Daniels though. The guy is fast. He has very good hands. He makes big plays. He is a tough match-up for a SS, never mind a LBer.
I bet the same can't be said of the chump we acquired.
It really upsets me that Ozzy continues to kick our butts. He should have been our GM, daggonit.
Wow Vers passing judgement on a player you are unfamiliar or have little knowledge.
Owen Daniels battled leg injuries and too many concussions last season. I believe he played five games last year. Owen turns 31. Houston will either play a backup or rookie QB next year one would think a good TE is needed. Daniels was owed 6 million. Ozzy is taking a chance in my opinion. I wonder how much Baltimore is paying?
Jim Dray was underutilized in my opinion at age 27 6' 5". Dray can be a steady underneath pass-catcher and a sound run-blocker like Steve Heiden. You are not going to be wow'd by Dray's stats.
Make no mistake Daniels returning to his 2012 numbers will hurt. Houston dumping Daniels for Zach Potter, from Jaguars, seems odd and Houston's other tight ends: Ryan Griffin and Phillip Supernaw. You think O'Brian can find a place for Daniels. Having Hopkins and Johnson as starting receivers you think coverage on Daniels would be light.
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Good post w/valid reasons.
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Also, Daniels will be 32 in November. (just to add to your points)
I think that he could be an excellent signing by the Ravens, or he could have the bottom drop out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I bet the same can't be said of the chump we acquired.
Two related things I've gotten from reading articles since Shanahan got here. For what it's worth, one is that he likes to use a TE in an H-back role for run blocking and, that the TE we signed is a brutal blocking TE rather than a pass catching, mismatch-making play maker like Cameron. He has caught some passes seemingly as the ignored, forgotten man in play action.
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Mismatches be damned.
It is impossible to run the zone stretch without a good blocking TE/H-Back.Something we didnot have on the roster.If this cat they signed is that,then he will be way more valuable then Owen Daniels.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Who said he would start. The question is whether or not Daniels is better or worse than the guy we signed? Heck, I can't even remember the chump's name. I do remember Daniels though. The guy is fast. He has very good hands. He makes big plays. He is a tough match-up for a SS, never mind a LBer.
I bet the same can't be said of the chump we acquired.
It really upsets me that Ozzy continues to kick our butts. He should have been our GM, daggonit.
Wow Vers passing judgement on a player you are unfamiliar or have little knowledge.
Owen Daniels battled leg injuries and too many concussions last season. I believe he played five games last year. Owen turns 31. Houston will either play a backup or rookie QB next year one would think a good TE is needed. Daniels was owed 6 million. Ozzy is taking a chance in my opinion. I wonder how much Baltimore is paying?
Jim Dray was underutilized in my opinion at age 27 6' 5". Dray can be a steady underneath pass-catcher and a sound run-blocker like Steve Heiden. You are not going to be wow'd by Dray's stats.
Make no mistake Daniels returning to his 2012 numbers will hurt. Houston dumping Daniels for Zach Potter, from Jaguars, seems odd and Houston's other tight ends: Ryan Griffin and Phillip Supernaw. You think O'Brian can find a place for Daniels. Having Hopkins and Johnson as starting receivers you think coverage on Daniels would be light.
Except that Dray didn't drop a single pass (according to one statistical gathering website), so he's got reasonably sure hands.
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Who said he would start. The question is whether or not Daniels is better or worse than the guy we signed?
...
It really upsets me that Ozzy continues to kick our butts. He should have been our GM, daggonit.
Lol okay, so the jist I am gathering here... is that Ozzy and the Ravens are 'kicking our butt' because they signed a better backup/#2 TE with a lot of injury concerns to a one year deal not worth much?
Where is the logic that I am missing here, if any? Give me a backup that can block, stay healthy and when asked to run a route and catch the ball - they can... we have that in Barnidge and the jist I gather from Dray - he's about the same type.
all jmo
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Owen Daniels does have an injury history and he certainly hasn't put up Jimmy Graham type numbers, but where do you get that he's just a backup?
I think Baltimore is following the 2 TE set trend in the NFL. I think they quickly realized that, after losing Boldin, Joe Flacco needs bigger targets with more dependable hands who catch balls over the middle.
I think Daniels is one such type of player.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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In Baltimore, Owens is going to be backup behind the stud TE they already have in Dennis Pitta, just like he'd be a backup here behind Jordan. Yes I am aware of the two TE sets as' well.
Not knocking Owen or his talents, I think it was a good move for Baltimore - but I was talking about the fact Vers thinks Baltimore is light years ahead because they signed him to a one year deal and we "didn't" and signed someone like Dray. They won't be much ahead when Owen gets sideline with yet another injury. Likely the bulk load of the reason he was only given a one year deal. Let's not "dog" Owens as a player, but also let's not pretend he's the greatest TE to play the game.
JMO
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That's a decent assessment, although I would still rather have Daniels than Dray.
To be fair to Vers though, I think he just regards this as one "brick" on the pavement of Ozzie's success in comparison to what the Browns have accomplished. I could be wrong though.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Dawg_LB, look at Daniel's numbers in 2012. If he gets anywhere close, he'll be a great pickup for Ozzy. I agree with you I don't think Ravens kicked our butt. I believe neither got the better.
I do like Dray. I think he'll have more of an opportunity in Cleveland. Which is strange, Arians likes a Dray type TE. If you recall, Heath Miller thrived under Bruce. Arizona struggled last year at TE. What little I saw of his play. He did remind me of Steve Hieden.
If this coaching staff and starting QB can figure out how to get Little working consistently, we'll have one heck of receiving corp in my opinion....Gordon/Little/Hawkins/Cameron/Dray...all tall YAC type receivers. I know Vers won't like, but these guys look like an ideal fit for Carr. No, I'm not pimping Carr!!! No, I'm not saying Teddy can't make it work.
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Dawg_LB, look at Daniel's numbers in 2012. If he gets anywhere close, he'll be a great pickup for Ozzy. I agree with you I don't think Ravens kicked our butt. I believe neither got the better.
Look at his numbers in 2013, he lived on IR just as he did in 2009 I believe. As I said, I'm not knocking him as a player or his talent(s)/skill(s) "when" he's on the field - just look at the dude's history. We're talking ACL, back, knee and fibula injuries. The typical hamstring/groin and etc are ALSO on his lovely injury list.
It'll be the last thing I say about Owens, but; *if* he plays, then I'll vote that he'll be a good pickup for Baltimore to go along with Smith, Pitta and etc which sucks cause they're a division rival. If he gets injured, which evidence suggest it's probable - then he's no better than a very average to mediocre player.
Just an opinion on how much of a gambling person you are... do you like the odds of good talent at injury and etc risks, or average/mediocre talent with reliability and etc? Either or, I wouldn't classify the signing as kicking our butts.
/ the end 
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We passed on Owen Daniels and signed "who" at TE?
Let me guess, another brilliant move by Farmer?
I believe both moves happened at about the same time (Daniels' release and Dray's signing) so how was Farmer to know that Daniels was going to be released and willing to sign here?
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Lol okay, so the jist I am gathering here... is that Ozzy and the Ravens are 'kicking our butt' because they signed a better backup/#2 TE with a lot of injury concerns to a one year deal not worth much?
and
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but I was talking about the fact Vers thinks Baltimore is light years ahead because they signed him to a one year deal and we "didn't" and signed someone like Dray.
Where did I say that? Seriously. I said he "continues" to kick our butt. Are you disputing that his record over the past years hasn't been better than ours?
I think Daniels is better than Dray. I bet most of you did not even know who Dray was before we signed him. I didn't either. I sure knew who Daniels was. Thus, he "continues" to kick our butt. My statement was NOT about one single move. Sheesh.
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I don't think Oz has won this year. Heck, I'd take Josh Gordon over Pitta, Steve Smith, and Jacoby Jones combined.
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We acquired Josh Gordon this year?
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We acquired Josh Gordon this year?
I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that. It didn't make any sense to me either.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Where did I say that? Seriously. I said he "continues" to kick our butt. Are you disputing that his record over the past years hasn't been better than ours?
Ahhh gotcha gotcha... yeah if you're speaking in an overall fashion then heck no I am not disputing it. Most GMs out there had and done better than the ones we were use to here.
Read it wrong, my bad.
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We acquired Josh Gordon this year?
I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that. It didn't make any sense to me either.
No, but this idea that Oz has kicked our ass recently (past 3 years) is still far-fetched.
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There's a difference in looking at an isolated incident over the big picture.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So their other moves of getting rid of Anquan Boldin and lucking into Elvis Dumervil and trading for Eugene Monroe still doesn't change the fact that we've done a lot better than them in terms of acquiring talent in the past 3 years or so.
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I don't know anything from our W/L record that you could possibly point to that indicates we've done better. You may try to portray it on paper, but as long as they win more than we do, they have a better team that has been assembled entirely by Ozzie.
We won 4 games last year and our D couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. We may have some fantastic paper lions, but they aren't bringing it on Sundays.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well, we had Weeden and DQ, they had Flaccoo and Ray Lewis. I'd obviously say long term that Oz has kicked our butt, recently no.
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No biggie. You just misread me. I probably wasn't clear. We're cool.
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Still don't get the Dray signing
1. Well as you can see we don't have a real FB on the team - I do know the Texans used Casey as an HB over a FB including Vick.
2. Possibly that is our FB type of acquisition.
3. We can presume he is smart being a Stanford player (???)
4. On top of that the few times he was asked to catch the ball he did so without a drop (pretty sure I read that).
So we were not looking for a TE to take reps away from Cameron or compete for his spot...heck his first year as the starter he made it to the Pro Bowl. Sometimes a team is just that...we went for a guy to fill a role. Play maker TE was not the role we were searching for.
I don't see why you would not "GET" it???
jmho - btw I know Tate asked that we sign Vickers - is he still out there. But I'm pretty sure we are not going I formation - More an H-Back.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I agree. The guy is a great blocker by all reports and he looks to have good hands.
We can go 2 TE sets and other teams won't really know if we are going big along the line or if we are going to use Cameron more or less as a 3rd wideout. The other team might have a hard time deciding on what type of line-up they want on the field.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Well ... no surprise there. He didn't have a choice.
Hopefully we can find a replacement for him in the draft ..... but maybe Pettine figures out how to make a passable ILB out of him. Who knows?
He looked like he had potential in 2012, then kinda fell apart last year. Maybe he bounces back to continue his development this year ...... or maybe he's fodder.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Craig looks OK against the run and the pass, as long as he is not put in single coverage against a fast TE or RB, and lets face it NO LB looks good in that role.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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How DARE we sign a TE that compliments our current starter...
...Epescially when there was a 32 year old one that's spent the last year on the IR just waiting for us!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Browns re-sign Craig Robertson
Blah... why? He failed in coverage beyond often. Let's hope he's a special team first, then depth at ILB later type player as I really don't have much confidence in him.
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I like Craig Robertson.. I think he's a good LB.
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I felt like his stock was really high at the beginning half of last year, then I felt like it dropped dramatically after his poor performance in the Lions game.
I think he's good depth to have at the ILB spot, but I do think, given Pettine's history, that the Browns are going to target a force at ILB in the draft.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Opposing QB's like Craig too, cause all they need to do is pass it to the person he's covering/assigned lol... 
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This guy couldn't cover my grandmother, every time he was in coverage on a back out of the backfield, he was at least 3 steps behind them. I hope we address LB early in the draft.
GO BROWNS!
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My best hope is that eh will take a leap forward like Skrine did last year.
I'm not counting on it though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This guy couldn't cover my grandmother, every time he was in coverage on a back out of the backfield, he was at least 3 steps behind them. I hope we address LB early in the draft.
Like Mack at #4?
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I like Craig Robertson.. I think he's a good LB.
The other two guys in the middle of our defense - guys touted as being 'leaders' - were allowed to walk without being made an offer.
Robertson was re-signed.
I think we will be better when he is depth rather than a starter. I also think he will benefit tremendously from having a true 3-4 ILB standing beside him for a change.
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I like Craig Robertson.. I think he's a good LB.
The other two guys in the middle of our defense - guys touted as being 'leaders' - were allowed to walk without being made an offer.
Robertson was re-signed.
I think we will be better when he is depth rather than a starter. I also think he will benefit tremendously from having a true 3-4 ILB standing beside him for a change.
What makes you think that he was signed to be a starter? It seems apparent to me that the ILB position will be addressed fairly early in the draft and possibly with more than one selection.
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