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Pick Analysis: The most polished receiver in the draft falls to the Browns at No. 36. The former Buckeye is an exceptional route-runner with outstanding hands and ball skills. Though he isn't a classic deep threat, Robiskie is a big-play threat capable of being a productive No. 2 receiver in the Browns' offense.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/brian-robiskie?id=80682
We need to draft that guy!!!
He's the guy we've been missing since Jurevicius left!
Please stop ....... you're making me feel sick. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Who would have thought that 2 of the best picks in that draft would be Maiava and Carey? (Both of whom are still in the NFL)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just to make you feel better... Round 1: Clay Matthews LB Round 2: Jarius Byrd FS Round 2: LeSean McCoy RB Round 4: Brian Hartline WR Round 6: Captain Munnerlyn CB Round 6: Julian Edleman WR Also had we not traded our 09 3rd for a 08 4th to pick Martin freaking Rucker, we could of had a pick from Michael Johnson (DE, Cincy) Louis Vasquez (OL, SD) and Mike Wallace (WR, Pitt) 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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What sucks is that was the PERFECT draft to trade down as we did. The players that went between those picks left a lot to be desired. Monroe, Crabtree and Orakpo are the only ones who have been worth the pick we traded away and Crabtree was the only one really that was being considered. Mack and Clay Mathews are the two most dominant players at their positions from that 1st round and I think their equal though I wouldve taken the bloodline and kept Fraley. Even who I wanted at the time wasnt bad in Clay Mathews, Rey Mauluga, Lesean Mccoy, Phil Loadholt and Mike Wallace.
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A time machine is very useful in the draft 
There was a reason why Kokinos was fired in 6 months. I know many blame Mangini for the draft but he trusted Kokinos in that first year as he was busy putting a staff together and revamping the entire infra structure of the Browns.
jmho...I know an excuse but fact is its the Truth 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I know this is water well under the bridge but Koko I think gets a bad rap on some things. When he first got here there was a S, I think, that he called the guys agent and the agent, not liking Genie, said he was not gonna send his guy over unless he could assure him that they would sign him. Koko said that Genie loved him and they would sign him. Genie found out about the visit and went bonkers because it was not his idea to bring in this guy. Well, he would not even meet with him and Koko had to send him away. The agent was miffed. I think it was Genies ego that made it impossible to work with him more than it was Koko. Think about it. Would you work for somebody when everything you did was not good enough unless it was their idea?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I don't think Kokinis had very much say in that draft, or much power in Berea at all.
That second round is still painful to look at.
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What you think and what is logical are two different things. Fact is don't you remember Mangini rebuilding the offices and some of the workers were changing over. Moving the Mural from the Front Lobby to the Players side. Bringing that up cause it was in the press. Assembling a staff, creating a schedule of transitioning their scheme and philosophies on the team. Looking at film of all existing players on the Roster. Forget about Logic, HOW BOUT FACT - is is stated as fact that the new HC is at a disadvantage his first year in the draft cause he is not able to put the time he can into it. As his time is placed on other things that has to be done THE FIRST YEAR.
Kokinos wasn't involved pfft.
I'm sure an incident happened regarding a safety. Possibly in that matter to commit to "SIGNING A PLAYER" that there was some friction to begin with either with the player or agent. You see no fault in Kokinos in NOT TALKING TO MANGINI in signing a FA safety? Btw I don't Safety was our hole that year. So personnel wise (they went and got Elam) it was not a problem. A turn off to Kokinos...just Fiction written by the BOZOS who hated Mangini and would turn anything he did into a negative.
That draft had Kokinos all over it. I'm sure he made the board cause - quite frankly logically Mangini did not have the time to do so.
I will try not to answer too much on this so if I don't - do not feel insulted - its past history and is a Dead horse. But I do know some inside stuff about the matter and Kokinos. Mangini - covered Kokinos' butt big time. But Randy still found out and had to fire him...why would RANDY fire him that quick. Not Mangini demanding it. There are other reasons.
jmho n logic behind it.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Got to be a slow news day to be discussing that and actually putting some effort in to the conversation. Just think how much better off we would be had John Collins prevailed and Randy told Savage to leave. Collins has done a wonderful job with the NHL since leaving the Browns.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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What you think and what is logical are two different things.
I really don't think you're an expert on logic when it comes to Mangini.
We've done this merry-go-round before. The last time, you called me ignorant because I said that Mangini didn't really instill discipline. You said it was so obvious that anyone could see it. I asked for obvious examples. You pointed to training camp drills Mangini ran, which led to lower drops, fumbles, mental penalties, etc.
I showed that this wasn't true, and that in most cases those things increased. You came back with, 'well, we probably had more fumbles because we ran more'. I showed that this, again, was not the case.
You then resorted to 'well, I know what I saw'.
Logic to you appears to be creating a plausible scenario that fits your views and adopting it as fact because it's logical.
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Fact is don't you remember Mangini rebuilding the offices and some of the workers were changing over. Moving the Mural from the Front Lobby to the Players side. Bringing that up cause it was in the press.
I do remember that, and I think it was an example of what was wrong with Mangini, and also with last year's F.O. - too much talk, not enough walk.
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Forget about Logic, HOW BOUT FACT - is is stated as fact that the new HC is at a disadvantage his first year in the draft cause he is not able to put the time he can into it. As his time is placed on other things that has to be done THE FIRST YEAR.
Again, you're just listing plausible scenarios and stating them to be fact.
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That draft had Kokinos all over it.
How so?
To me, I see Mangini all over it...a bad BB impersonation that also happened to net us a bunch of his former players.
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I'm sure he made the board cause - quite frankly logically Mangini did not have the time to do so.
If you look at that draft, you could logically argue that the selections were made by someone who hadn't put much time into it.
You can make any number of logical arguments...but merely doing so doesn't prove anything, or serve as fact.
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why would RANDY fire him that quick.
Maybe because he didn't do anything?
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That second round is still painful to look at.
Ain't that the truth!
I was on the Official Board posting in real-time with that draft, and all of us armchair quarterbacks were screaming in rage. So many quality guys out there and we were just whiffing. No hindsight required on that draft.
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As was I.
Kind of funny to remember all the blowback I got for that. But that was a long time ago.
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I really don't think you're an expert on logic when it comes to Mangini. Well actually what you think really don't matter to me. I spent a lot of time studying Mangini...prior to him coming here.
My apologies on making my case of bringing discipline to this team. I was never the guy with the clipboard and taking stats. So I don't know how to use them well.
All I know is there we were throwing the ball NINE times and winning. All I know is that we gained 18 yards in the air and won. All I know is that we did not have the talent...but evidently we had the "DISCIPLINE" - The only bad thing I saw was that in winning those games at incredible odds, we lost out on Bradford.
Again, you're just listing plausible scenarios and stating them to be fact.
I see so if this is stated as FACT by the Polians and Casserly about new regimes and a cross effect of their first season regarding the draft. According to you it don't count....after all it wasn't put on a clipboard. I see.
What does the draft have to do with Mangini getting veteran players who knew the system in a tier fashion to instruct the younger players. The fact you bring this up as some sort of negative sort of substantiates your remembrance of my claim to your football ignorance. Yep that was what was wrong with the team. And for you to use that as some sort of LOGIC that it had Mangini all written on that draft with some useless statements like him trying to be BB... you're full of it.
That draft had Kokinos written all over it cause evidently we were ill prepared and as you stated yourself about Kokinos getting fired. Maybe because he didn't do anything?
So lets review. You acknowledge the fact that Mangini was rebuilding the infrastructure as well as building a staff and new program along with reviewing the players on the roster and having a heavy hand in the acquisition of veteran players to help in the transition.
there is one of us who is blinded by bias...in your case the hatred of the man/coach.
Cause then you make up this almost impossible scenario of Mangini taking over the entire draft process and leaving Kokinos out in the cold...blameless sucking his thumb. So I admit you got a lot of "STATS" up your sleeve. But in this case there are no receptions, no rushes, no penalties. just football logic and you are left totally helpless and your hatred of Mangini has shown through.
Later dawg. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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How do you study Mangini? Is there a book I missed?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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How do you study Mangini? Is there a book I missed?
No, just the Napoleon complex article on wiki.
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Painful, not nearly as painful as trading up w/Minni [who had Peterson] for TRich and then drafting Weeden in the first. To top it off, they reach on Schwartz and Hughes after that. 
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Painful, not nearly as painful as trading up w/Minni [who had Peterson] for TRich and then drafting Weeden in the first. To top it off, they reach on Schwartz and Hughes after that.
?? at least hughes and Schwartz still play on this team, fairly well.
do we even still have players on this team that mangini drafted/brought in?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Painful, not nearly as painful as trading up w/Minni [who had Peterson] for TRich and then drafting Weeden in the first. To top it off, they reach on Schwartz and Hughes after that.
Well, we traded up with Minni because the Jags were going to trade up and take TRich. Why in the world did Holmgren think that a team who had MJD would trade up to draft TRich, I have no idea. But I also don't know why someone would spend a first round pick on a 28 year old QB.
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Haden was drafted by Heckert
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Are you trying to be difficult or simply missing the point? This place is really starting to suck.
If you think that missing on a couple of second round picks is way worse than missing on two first round picks, including trading away picks to move up from 4 to 3 w/a team that had no interest in a RB, than more power to you.
I disagree. I think missing on the 3rd overall pick and the 22nd overall pick is worse than missing on the a couple of second rounders. JMO
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And Joe Haden.
that was heckert pick. the only one left from 2010 draft?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Mangini had a top 10 pick and converted it into a Center and then nothing. Yes, TRich+trade alone was worse in a vaccum, but any draft class is not only one pick. Drafting 3 other players in the top 50 and not one of them getting a 2nd contract in this league is beyond pathetic. Veikune was out of the league after one and a half seasons I think.
Heckert deservedly got fired for that last draft, but at least he had two decent to good one's before that, which delivered the talent base of our current roster btw, even with some of his failed draft. Mangini never came even close to any of that. All he has to show for out of 4 top 50 picks is a freaking Center. He pretty much committed every value-sin imaginable. His 2009 draft should be a text-book example of how to NOT run a draft.
#gmstrong
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Mangini had a top 10 pick and converted it into a Center and then nothing. Yes, TRich+trade alone was worse in a vaccum, but any draft class is not only one pick. Drafting 3 other players in the top 50 and not one of them getting a 2nd contract in this league is beyond pathetic. Veikune was out of the league after one and a half seasons I think.
Heckert deservedly got fired for that last draft, but at least he had two decent to good one's before that, which delivered the talent base of our current roster btw, even with some of his failed draft. Mangini never came even close to any of that. All he has to show for out of 4 top 50 picks is a freaking Center. He pretty much committed every value-sin imaginable. His 2009 draft should be a text-book example of how to NOT run a draft.
Mangini got one try while Heckert got a couple. Heckert was able to purge Mangini's mistakes. How long would Weeden and Richard be here if Haslam/Banner/Lomabardi never arrived. Don't forget Marecic and Hardesty too. I believe Heckert traded up for Hardesty. Sometimes your first draft is not your best but two missed ques and you have to take note. Heckert was the GM where as Mangini played the roll when his GM fell asleep.
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Alex Mack is still with the Browns.
Robiskie, Carey, and Maiava are also still in the league with other teams. (though Robiske is barely hanging on)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Tampa was the team we traded up to prevent jumping us
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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How do you study Mangini? Is there a book I missed?
Duh! Yes it's called "Get to know your Mangina!"
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J/C - are we really rehashing all of this crap? Seriously?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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J/C - are we really rehashing all of this crap? Seriously?
It's almost better than talking about that draft at this point..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Tampa was the team we traded up to prevent jumping us
Yes. I don't know how many times people have tried to explain this but others ignorantly argue the Minnesota angle for some reason.
Don't get me wrong, although I was fine with the trade when it happened, it's now apparent it was a very bad move. But it had nothing to do with Minnesota "wanting" an RB that sparked the trade, it was Tampa making a similar trade with the Vikings to grab Richardson.
Oddly enough, Tampa moved back into the first round and drafted the Muscle Hamster....sometimes not making the desired trade ends up working out....kinda like Ozzie not able to get Quinn back in 2007.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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And Joe Haden.
that was heckert pick. the only one left from 2010 draft?
And we should have kept the other Pro-Bowler from that draft as well.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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And Joe Haden.
that was heckert pick. the only one left from 2010 draft?
And we should have kept the other Pro-Bowler from that draft as well.
I prefer Whitner. Had he not been available, I would of kept Ward. Unless I could of gotten Byrd. But the fact that Byrds DC didn't apparently want him makes me wonder..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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And Joe Haden.
that was heckert pick. the only one left from 2010 draft?
And we should have kept the other Pro-Bowler from that draft as well.
I prefer Whitner. Had he not been available, I would of kept Ward. Unless I could of gotten Byrd. But the fact that Byrds DC didn't apparently want him makes me wonder..
I don't know for sure if Pettine didn't want Byrd,, it might have just been a money thing.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I understand that people like Whitner and I understand why, last year he was better in coverage than Ward. My only concern is that Whitner has had one good year in coverage-- his contract year. Prior to that he was pretty bad, maybe even worse than Ward. Also, I think people underrate Ward's coverage ability on here greatly...but that's not really relevant anymore.
I've seen Ward get better in all aspects of his game every single year, he's younger (roughly two years), and ended up costing less.
Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for Whitner because he's on our team and he's a Glenville kid. I love the Cleveland ties to this signing, and if his coverage skills mirror what he did in 2013, that's wonderful. He seems to want to take on the role of a leader and I like that too.
I'm just afraid we opted to let a guy loose who was really coming into his own as a top, overall safety in the NFL. Time will tell.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Here are the 10 picks from 49 to 58 out of that 2009 draft, shade your eyes:
49 OT/C Unger
50 WR Massa
51 OG Levitre
52 LB Veikune
53 RB LeS.McCoy
54 OT P.Loadholt
55 SS W.Moore
56 DL F.Moala
57 DE/OLB P.Kruger
58 OT Vollmer
It's like playing "which is (ARE) the odd one(s) out"? That's 7 very good to PB talents, one "meh/decent" (Moala) and two out of the league busts. Mangini had two picks to boot and he managed to pick the busts.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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and ended up costing less.
I would really like to nail down the numbers we offered him.
He claims we offered him "Nothing"
However his agent says negotiations were ongoing through the combine.
I wonder (IMO) if we offered him what Denver did, if not more, and he thought he was worth more than that. Then went to FA, and found out he wasn't. By that time we had already signed Whitner. So he found his old buddy Heckert in Denver and got a deal done..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Tampa was the team we traded up to prevent jumping us
My mistake, I could have sworn I heard Jacksonville on ESPN a few years ago.
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