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A third round pick for a 32 year old guard is quite a lot. I wouldn't do it. I would think about a fourth round pick, but probably wouldn't do that either. I would probably do a fifth round pick. There were no guards that started more than 12 games last year that were the same age as Mathis will be ( Link). And we will have to re-sign him. Just because we have a need does not mean we should panic. The cost is too high.
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Mathis is not just a "good" OG, he's elite. He's at OG what JJ Watt is for DL. He's been on another tier/level even compared to the other top guys at his position. A player like that is well worth a 4th and you guys know that I normally don't value OG too much, but I would throw away my 4th rounder any draft for elite players at any position execpt FB and ST....even if just a one year rental.
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His age doesn't worry you at all? The fact that no guards his age started more than 12 games worries me a lot.
Fifth round pick, yes. Anything earlier, no.
We are not a team that is in position to rent a player.
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I really don't know players outside the Browns like I use to.
what is his Pro-Bowl history? just curious.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
I really don't know players outside the Browns like I use to.
what is his Pro-Bowl history? just curious.
Last year was his first. His last 2 seasons have been the only time he's played in all 16 games. Before he went to the Eagles in 2011 he was considered a bust.
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FWIW, but PFF has rated him highly and pimped him since 2009. He has graded as their top OG the past 3 seasons I think. They like to use him as their validation of their analysis work.
Geoff Schwartz is a similar player as Mathis was in 2009/10...too bad we didn't sign him to play next to his brother...
Age and durability are always a concern with 30+ players, but OGs age well imho. T.Wharton is the same age. They both were top 5 OGs in 2013 and have played in all 16 games the past two seasons. Together they started 60 of 64 possible games. I think Pinkston and Lauvao have missed way more games the past two seasons although being in their mid 20s
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Don't know what they saw back then cause in '09 and '10 he was with the Bengals and he only started 7 out of 32 games and he couldn't beat out a just getting started Nate Livings or the aging Bobbie Williams.
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I'd love to send our high 4th to Philly for Mathis (and then sign him to a 4 year $30M deal with an out after 2 years $15M) - and then send our low 4th to Dallas for Claiborne.
At that point we'd only have QB, WR2, ILB, FS as holes going into the draft. We could do (Trade 26+ second 3rd round pick to get up to 20)
4 - Bridgewater, QB
20 - C.J. Mosley, ILB
35 - Davante Adams, WR
73 - Terrence Brooks, FS
That's a pretty complete team there.
That would look very nice.
I like Ladler the safety out of Vandy a little better than Brooks myself. But either is fine by me.
I am a big fan of Adams and Bridgewater.
Mosley would fit in perfect.
How do I start a petition to make you the Browns GM?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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We do have holes on the OL. We are switching schemes. We need guards who are more athletic. We are going to be in trouble w/slow-footed guards.
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We do have holes on the OL. We are switching schemes. We need guards who are more athletic. We are going to be in trouble w/slow-footed guards.
I agree. Looking to the fairly recent past. We need a Steinback type guard over a lead footed Zuk type guard.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
We do have holes on the OL. We are switching schemes. We need guards who are more athletic. We are going to be in trouble w/slow-footed guards.
I agree. Looking to the fairly recent past. We need a Steinback type guard over a lead footed Zuk type guard.
It's funny you mention that, because the whole time I'm reading this thread, I keep thinking "man, what I would give to have 2007 Steinbach back for this season."
Part of me feels like Pinkston won't have much of a chance in this system either. I never had the impression that he was necessarily quick on his feet.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
We do have holes on the OL. We are switching schemes. We need guards who are more athletic. We are going to be in trouble w/slow-footed guards.
I agree. Looking to the fairly recent past. We need a Steinback type guard over a lead footed Zuk type guard.
It's funny you mention that, because the whole time I'm reading this thread, I keep thinking "man, what I would give to have 2007 Steinbach back for this season."
Part of me feels like Pinkston won't have much of a chance in this system either. I never had the impression that he was necessarily quick on his feet.
Those were two good posts, guys. Pinky is NOT light on his feet. I think he has been a good value, but I don't see him as a zone blocking guard. Grecco is questionable. He is so tall. His feet are okay, but I think he would have to play RG in this system and even that is not a given.
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~ Legend
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I think our best bet is to draft a guard and hope it works out. I don't think spending money on guards are in our best interest. There's always great ones that hit the market every year, because they're not a valuable investment.
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Yeah, I worry about Greco as well. Even though it's an outside zone blocking system, do you really think he'd have the power necessary to man the RG spot?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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They are never valuable until you can't run the ball and everyone complains about the lack of a running game.
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I think he is strong enough, but his height worries me. Hard to get leverage when you are that tall and playing inside.
What do you think?
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~ Legend
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And that's why you need to draft high and draft often. Well, until you find the one.
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Quote:
I think he is strong enough, but his height worries me. Hard to get leverage when you are that tall and playing inside.
What do you think?
I'm still trying to formulate an opinion since I'm not the best judge of guard play. I do think he's all right at getting down the field. I never really had the impression that height was a problem for him since he's 6'4" and guys like Steiny were 6'5".
He does struggle with leverage, though. I'm not sure if he plays too high or what...but I often saw DLmen getting their arms underneath him and pushing him back. If he lets that happen when he's trying to zone block, it could throw a lot of things off.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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And that's why you need to draft high and draft often. Well, until you find the one.
Funny in a way....I have been as big a guard pimp on this board as ever.....going back to Hutcheson.
The standard reply was that Guards weren't worth a early selection.
Just saying
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I believe we should have signed either Asamoah, Beadles, or Schwartz----in that order.
This guy Philly intrigues me because we need help at guard and I am not sure relying on the draft for this year is wise.
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You are one of the better OL guys on the board. That is why I asked you.
I thought Grecco was 6'5". I have never been a fan of tall guards and did not realize Steiny was that tall.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Thanks man. I'd actually like to know what Mourg has to say. He has some good thoughts on OL.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Probably going to get a talking to for that one.
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~ Legend
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I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Haslam hears that report.
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He probably doesn't care. Like Josh Gordon has some sort of inside information?
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He probably doesn't care. Like Josh Gordon has some sort of inside information?
Beat me to it! Players have less knowledge, since they are not reading everything posted, than your average fan. If I'm not mistaken, based on the new CBA they have little to no contact with the organization during the off-season.
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Outside of Beadles, who was close to being an asset as a FA OG?
Why I cooled off of my curiosity of Schwartz coming here. I just didn't see him as a good investment in our And Beadles might be good but maybe not worth the money are he just didn't want to come here.
I don't see our lack of FA participation as a negative. We got a good Utility OLman.
But I see us as players in this draft. This is one of the fasted group of OGs I've ever seen as a draft class. Same with the OTs especially the smaller OTs that will be asked to move to OG.
Peen got to get that Zuk needle in huh...lol 
I was real high on the kid Long from Oregon last year. I wanted him and likened him playing LG as a Bigger stronger Steinbach. Of course the draftnicks over sold him as a potential LT (like Steinback was said to be) but he played OG last season.
He will be one of the best around.
I see us drafting one or more of these quick strong OL coming out. Maybe more.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Haslam hears that report.
Wouldn't surprise me if he was told to say these things. I think Sammy Watkins is our target at #4.
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Exactly, this is the silly season. Don't believe anything you hear. If someone is being specific, they're just blowing smoke.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I don't think we're that diabolical, but who knows.
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I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Haslam hears that report.
Wouldn't surprise me if he was told to say these things. I think Sammy Watkins is our target at #4.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Farmer is doing a good enough job of keeping everyone guessing but the sentiment the past week is that we're not going to draft QB at 4, just maintaining the ebb and flow of the guessing game. They'll do whatever they can to keep it a mystery til close to draft day... Then there will be some rumors about other teams courting our pick so that anyone interested will ante up. We make that pick more valuable if other teams that covet it think that we might be the team taking the player they are targeting.
Okay, maybe I'm being a little too analytical here, but that's what I would do. lol
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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It's funny, when you actually read the link, it seems Josh isn't even close to being sure. LOL Quote:
Browns General Manager Ray Farmer is keeping everyone guessing about whether Cleveland will take a quarterback with the fourth overall pick in the draft. But Browns receiver Josh Gordon says he has talked to Farmer and believes he knows what the team is doing.
“There’s no telling,” Gordon told ESPN. “I talked with Ray, I talked with [owner Jimmy Haslam]. The choice is really up in the air right now. I’m pretty sure it’s a quarterback and I just really can’t say which one. I’m not real sure.”
Gordon named two quarterbacks in particular that he thinks might be throwing him passes this year.
“There’s plenty of guys on the list right now,” Gordon said. “Blake Bortles is definitely one of those guys that just may do it for us. Teddy Bridgewater is a great talent. But there’s no telling.”
We’ll find out for sure six weeks from tonight.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Outside of Beadles, who was close to being an asset as a FA OG?
Why I cooled off of my curiosity of Schwartz coming here. I just didn't see him as a good investment in our And Beadles might be good but maybe not worth the money are he just didn't want to come here.
Everything's perfect. No concerns at all. Que Sera Sera.
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How stupid is Gordon? Seriously?
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How stupid is Gordon? Seriously?
why does he have to be stupid now? he released about as much speculation as we do on the board. jeez...
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
How stupid is Gordon? Seriously?
why does he have to be stupid now? he released about as much speculation as we do on the board. jeez...
It was not smart. If the Browns are targeting either Bortles and Bridgewater they could be using all of the Watkins talk to smoke screen teams willing to mortgage the farm to the Rams to get ahead of the Browns if Houston takes one. That comment being made public may end up forcing Farmers hand to trade up to secure a QB.
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i guess i just don't see it that way.
everything he said was speculation. but its still nothing remotely new or a clue.
everybody knows we need a QB. fans want the QB position solidified, hell, the players on the team do.
i just don't see anything he said as remotely damaging.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Do you really think Farmer is going to tell a 20 year old kid that has a twitter account exactly what he plans to do on draft day?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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