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So now it's about Nevada, not his performance. Gotcha. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I didn't watch the video BpG,, and the reason is simple, Unless I"m wrong, it's all one game, Right? Anyone can have a bad game..
I'm saying this to you, but in my heart, I'm not completely convinced that Carr is the man.. I think he could be.. but I don't know it.
Right now I feel better about Teddy and Johnny.. Who I might add, have also had bad games..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If we take Carr before the 2nd round. I won't like it. He's a very raw guy, even more so than Bortles...
If we pass on guys like Teddy and Manziel at 4, so that we can take Carr at 26 or in the 2nd round, I really won't like it...
If we take Carr at 4 I don't even know... We better hit on EVERY OTHER PICK. and Hoyer better start, and they better hope he lasts all season...
If you can't tell, I'm not that big on Carr...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
If we take Carr before the 2nd round. I won't like it. He's a very raw guy, even more so than Bortles...
If we pass on guys like Teddy and Manziel at 4, so that we can take Carr at 26 or in the 2nd round, I really won't like it...
If we take Carr at 4 I don't even know... We better hit on EVERY OTHER PICK. and Hoyer better start, and they better hope he lasts all season...
If you can't tell, I'm not that big on Carr...
Okay!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Unless I"m wrong, it's all one game, Right? Anyone can have a bad game..
Wow. It wasn't a bad game. Not even close. Most would call it a great game. 487 yds. 3 passing TD's, 1 rushing TD and 41 points for the win. And he looked great aside from several drops, trying to do too much once or twice, and a sack he might have been able to avoid. Other than that, he was on target, read the D well, showed great pocket presence and got the win. So now his argument is: It was against Nevada. Such B.S.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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And that's why QB is the HARDEST position to transfer...
If a guy does great against lower competition, how does that compare to a guy who does average against better competition?
I don't think you can look at what they did against who. Just what they did. How they did it, and how you feel it translates to the next level...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You think Oakland wants to burn their first pick on a QB after acquiring Shaub, in which Dennis Allen has already labeled him the starter? Doubtfully...
Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers with Brett Favre at QB. Good teams try to keep an iron in the fire. when they can.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why do you say you need great protection at the line for Carr? He took 11 sacks in over 540 pass attempts.
Have you seen any of his games? Hard to find a guy that gets sacked a lot in a montage of screen passes and short throws.
Do you mean like the ones to Sammy Watkins in Clemson's bowl game vs. the Buckeyes? 
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Unless I"m wrong, it's all one game, Right? Anyone can have a bad game..
Wow. It wasn't a bad game. Not even close. Most would call it a great game. 487 yds. 3 passing TD's, 1 rushing TD and 41 points for the win. And he looked great aside from several drops, trying to do too much once or twice, and a sack he might have been able to avoid. Other than that, he was on target, read the D well, showed great pocket presence and got the win. So now his argument is: It was against Nevada. Such B.S.
Cal, he said he didn't watch it. He was making the leap that BpG was providing a video of a bad performance by Carr. He should have looked before he lept, but that doesn't dispute his statement.
Don't show BpG a montage of Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl last year. BpG will come away with the thought that he's worse than Brandon Weeden.
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And that's why QB is the HARDEST position to transfer...
If a guy does great against lower competition, how does that compare to a guy who does average against better competition?
I don't think you can look at what they did against who. Just what they did. How they did it, and how you feel it translates to the next level...
And I think that's what the Browns did by having a private workout with him.
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You think Oakland wants to burn their first pick on a QB after acquiring Shaub, in which Dennis Allen has already labeled him the starter? Doubtfully...
Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers with Brett Favre at QB. Good teams try to keep an iron in the fire. when they can.
They may also have thought that spending a 6th to make it look like they weren't taking a QB while getting a veteran placeholder was cheaper than trading up in a bidding war.
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I have a question for the the QB gurus:
I know a QB, who throws almost everything 0-10 yards.
Man, last year he threw 15% of his passes behind the LOS, and he threw 52.7% of his passes from 1-10 yards. (in the air)
Yep ..... almost 68% of his passes were behind the LOS to 10 yards.
He completed only 46% of passes 11-20 yards. He completed only 23% of his passes 21 yards and over.
In 2012, he threw 70% of his passes behind the LOT to 10 yards downfield. In 2012, he completed 43% of his passes from 11-20 yards, 34% fro 21-30 yards, and 40% from 31-40 yards. He threw only 68 passes of 31 yards or more. He completed zero of 6 passes of 40+ yards.
Anyone want this guy?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You think Oakland wants to burn their first pick on a QB after acquiring Shaub, in which Dennis Allen has already labeled him the starter? Doubtfully...
Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers with Brett Favre at QB. Good teams try to keep an iron in the fire. when they can.
An excellent quote. (I might have to borrow it from time to time!) 
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Unless I"m wrong, it's all one game, Right? Anyone can have a bad game..
Wow. It wasn't a bad game. Not even close. Most would call it a great game. 487 yds. 3 passing TD's, 1 rushing TD and 41 points for the win. And he looked great aside from several drops, trying to do too much once or twice, and a sack he might have been able to avoid. Other than that, he was on target, read the D well, showed great pocket presence and got the win. So now his argument is: It was against Nevada. Such B.S.
Like I said, I DID'T WATCH IT.. but if you listen to who posted that link, you'd think he sucked..
I CHOOSE not to be the guy that makes a determination based on ONE GAME.. GOOD OR BAD...
DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You keep saying that yet you just seem to ignore the reports on Carr that he is blowing people away with his football IQ, maturity and leadership ability. It is just easier to debate the QB I like is a moron with a big arm and that isnt true. You got this hate for Carr that sounds just like Anarchy when he is ranting about Bridgewater.
Carr is a smart kid with a big arm and that is why he is going top 10. Look i like Bridgewater too and he is a smart kid but his arm isnt cut for the AFC North and he is falling like a rock because of a weak arm and a proday performance that was embarrassing.
Mourg, I wasn't being clear. I know he is a smart kid. I heard he is a coaches dream in many ways.
My point is that it all goes out the window when he is pressured. Mourg, QBs who are afraid in the pocket lose their intelligence, their mechanics, their accuracy, and everything else.
That is why I would never want this kid on my team.
And bro, please don't ever compare me to anarchy. LOL
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I'll bite. Probably not. Who is it?
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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OK, so facts aren't important to you, just feelings of wanting to gouge your eyes out, got it.
Look, if you throw screen passes instead of running the ball , you're going to throw a lot of screen passes. That's like saying any of the other QBs in the discussion's offense is predicated on the run.
And exactly how have all these types of QBs fared over recent years? Colt, Bradford, Weeden, etc.
You really don't see the correlation?
Seriously?
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I didn't watch the video BpG,, and the reason is simple, Unless I"m wrong, it's all one game, Right? Anyone can have a bad game..
Try watching the USC game.
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I am warming up to the idea of Derek Carr. But only if it is with pick 26 and only if he isn't handed the starter role.
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Tell us why?
Because of post season workouts? Post season evaluations?
Does it have anything at all to do w/his actual performance?
Do you understand this how we took stiffs like Timid and Weeden?
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I believe he has the physical tools to play the position. I also believe he has the mental ability to play the position if given time to learn the craft.
As clevesteve has pointed out, there is a misconception that he threw mostly screen passes and almost no passes past the line of scrimmage.
Carr's USC game, while horrible, was against a very talented defense. The USC defense is much more talented than the Fresno State offense. He saw blitzes he never saw before and injured his shoulder in the second quarter.
If you asked me at gun point, which would be scary, I would say I do not want Carr. I also wouldn't be upset if we picked him at pick 26. I would take a wait-and-see approach. Unlike with Weeden where I hated the pick the whole time.
Warming up to Carr and wanting Carr are two different things.
My preferred QB is Manziel.
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I'll bite. Probably not. Who is it?
It's Tom Brady. (2012 and 2013)
Brady is the epitome of a short throw QB, but his short area accuracy is exceptional.
I suppose that almost any QB can be competent if he is in the exactly right system. Brady is, obviously, more than competent ...... he's a superstar .... but let's not pretend that he stands in the pocket launching 30 yard strikes. The vast majority of his passes are short, shorter, and shortest, but the team is built to make that scheme work. They take advantage of his exceptional accuracy and ball placement to turn shorter throws into big plays.
Edleman, for example, had 9 pass plays of 20+ yards, and 2 of 40+ yards. Amendola had 8 of 20+, and 1 of 40+. Thompkins had 8 of 20+, and 1 of 40+. Dobson had 6 and 2. Gronkowsli had 10 and 1.
You wouldn't think that by the throws that Brady most often makes. However, their offense is almost a WCO type in the "throw short, run long" aspect, with concepts instead of long, drawn out calls, and quick reads and throws.
When I sold cars, we had a saying that there is a butt for every seat. While I don't believe that all drafted players will succeed, I do think that the offense and scheme makes a huge difference, especially for the QB. In short, there is a best QB for every offense, and a best offense for every QB. That is one reason why I think that they are looking at Carr.He is used to quick reads and quick throws. We'll run more of a WCO offense, with more verbiage, but the concepts are similar ..... throw a lot of short passes, spread the field across rather than deep, and work timing and pre-snap reads heavily. That all seems to fit Carr's game. The more I think about it, the more I can see why they would, at least, take a look at him. He gets the ball out of his hands quickly, and is highly accurate in the short to middle range.
We'll see what happens.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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OK, so facts aren't important to you, just feelings of wanting to gouge your eyes out, got it.
Look, if you throw screen passes instead of running the ball , you're going to throw a lot of screen passes. That's like saying any of the other QBs in the discussion's offense is predicated on the run.
And exactly how have all these types of QBs fared over recent years? Colt, Bradford, Weeden, etc.
You really don't see the correlation?
Seriously?
What are you talking about? Carr was not a screen thrower. He was an everything thrower PLUS a whole lot of screens. He threw two more games worth of NON-SCREEN passes than Bridgewater did, yet people still call him a screen guy.
I've explained this close to 20 times on this board and you still don't get it?
Seriously?
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I've explained this close to 20 times on this board and you still don't get it?
People hear what they want. If it doesn't sound good they ignore it. Whether it is anarchy with Bridgewater or Versatile with Carr, there is no talking people off their point.
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Whether it is anarchy with Bridgewater ... there is no talking people off their point.
To be fair, I don't like Manziel very much either. I would probably take a flyer on him in the 4th round, maybe the 3rd. I think that his style of play is going to get him laid out in the NFL and the way that he holds the ball when he runs is going to cause lots of turnovers.
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When I sold cars...
You just blew your credibility... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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When I sold cars...
You just blew your credibility...
He had credibility?  j/k YTown.
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Unless I"m wrong, it's all one game, Right? Anyone can have a bad game..
Wow. It wasn't a bad game. Not even close. Most would call it a great game. 487 yds. 3 passing TD's, 1 rushing TD and 41 points for the win. And he looked great aside from several drops, trying to do too much once or twice, and a sack he might have been able to avoid. Other than that, he was on target, read the D well, showed great pocket presence and got the win. So now his argument is: It was against Nevada. Such B.S.
Like I said, I DID'T WATCH IT.. but if you listen to who posted that link, you'd think he sucked..
I CHOOSE not to be the guy that makes a determination based on ONE GAME.. GOOD OR BAD...
DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?
I was positioning the point that it wasn't a bad game, that even though he posted it as a bad game (that both and you admitted not watching) that it was in fact a good game, a decent performance, and I posted why it was a good game. I was also making the point that the tired, overused, cliche' platitude that "anyone can have a bad game" had no relevance in this particular discussion because it wasn't a bad game, there was no bad game in evidence, and using the THAT GAME as an example of a bad game was COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE propagated by those WHO ADMITTEDLY DIDN'T EVEN WATCH IT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Throwing the BS Flag Cal.. Sorry man.. I do indeed respect ya, but Damn buddy.. You read me completely wrong... Sorry you don't get it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I've explained this close to 20 times on this board and you still don't get it?
People hear what they want. If it doesn't sound good they ignore it. Whether it is anarchy with Bridgewater or Versatile with Carr, there is no talking people off their point.
The point is how he panics under pressure. He gets giddy in the pocket when pressure is applied. To the point that it negatively impacts his decision making and accuracy.
Good QB's stand tall in the pocket under pressure. It's a gift that all good QB's have. That in no way describes Carr.
And that's something almost everyone who supports him seems to refuse to hear.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm not a Carr supporter.
But even Brady gets happy feet when pressure is applied to him. He's always been known for that.
If you can get to any QB, you're going to effect the way he throws. Especially if you do it consistently throughout the game.
I feel like we have a better Oline than Fresno State.
I still don't want Carr.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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"And that's something almost everyone who supports him seems to refuse to hear."
=======================================================
That is the case on more than the Carr topic. It seems people will listen to what supports their point of view and ignore anything that goes against their opinion.
To the point that defies logic. You can back up every point with links to film, examples that demonstrate, articles written to support; and still people will refuse to be swayed.
When I hear vast swings in who rises and falls on the mock drafts from the combine and pro days I doubt that it really happens inside the organizations. Unless it is injury related or criminal arrests.
The game tape does not change. What did the prospect do on the field over the course of their college careers?
How can a 20 minute workout in shorts against air change a prospect?
Film and trying to get inside the head of the prospect is the key. What does the tape say and how bad does the prospect want it?
Albert Haynesworth a physical force. His true character was later revealed.
I think it would be a good idea for teams to tape all interviews then have them reviewed by professionals. There are many "tells" that the human face can not hide. Interrogation professionals can do amazing work.
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I honestly think the Mel Kipers of the world draw up what they think will happen... Then completely move people around, and slowly just move back to where they started...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I've explained ths close to 20 times on this board and you still don't get it?
People hear what they want. If it doesn't sound good they ignore it. Whether it is anarchy with Bridgewater or Versatile with Carr, there is no talking people off their point.
The point is how he panics under pressure. He gets giddy in the pocket when pressure is applied. To the point that it negatively impacts his decision making and accuracy.
Good QB's stand tall in the pocket under pressure. It's a gift that all good QB's have. That in no way describes Carr.
And that's something almost everyone who supports him seems to refuse to hear.
No, the discussion was first about how BpG said Carr in particular would need Greg Robinson to give him the protection he needs to avoid getting sacked a lot, so I showed him how Carr aalmost never gets sacked, then he said some nonsense about how it was because he only throws screen passes, so I showed again about how he threw more non screen pass es than anyone but was still sacked the least, to which BpG said he doesn't care about facts he knows what he saw, and proceeded to post a "crapfest" game of Carr's to which almost everyone who watched the link said was actually a pretty good game by Carr, to which BpG said "yeah,but it's against Nevada", then vers chimed in comparing him to "those kinds of QBs" apparently completely ignoring that Carr is not a screen guy, puncuating it with his go-to rhetorical condescention for those who disagree with his opinions of "Seriously?"
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I really liked your post. To me, the actual game footage over the course of a players career is what sets their draft status with NFL GM's. Character issues being the other dominating force.
People seem to forget or overvalue the media who make their living trying to get you to buy into the hype. They try to make you believe the combine and pro day defines a player. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If you can find a QB that played in an NFL style system who was highly effective, you have the signs of a successful NFL QB. Once you get to QB's who played in the spread, the water becomes murkier.
A work out in shorts, with no pressure on the field, tells you a guy can play run and catch very well. Nothing more.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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My point really had nothing to do with BPG.
My point was what I consider to be the real issue with Carr. He simply crumbles under pressure. He seems scared under pressure.
Someone brought up Tom Brady. Brady may seem scared under pressure, but he delivers in the face of adversity. NFL QB's will receive pressure. Those who can escape the pocket and deliver passes on the move work well. Those who can step up into the pocket and can deliver with pressure in their face work well.
Those who play scared under such a scenario do not fare well. To me, that's the main issue with Carr.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Dude you have taken so much of what I said and made it into something to suit what your argument is, I won't continue to debate it with you. It's seriously embarrassing how far you took things I said and twisted them.
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OK so your point in the post where you responded to my post saying "the point is..." was not about the conversation going on, but about a point you wanted to make that was not part of the discussion. I didn't understand that.
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I am not an expert .... don't play one on TV ...... and am not going to pretend to be one .....
I have not spent enough time examining this draft class at all.
However, it seems to me that Carr has a skill set that should fit the WCO. He's smart, gets the ball out quickly, and is accurate in the short field with solid placement. (again, from what I have seen, in limited examination of his vdeos) He looks like a QB tailor made to play in the WCO.
What weaknesses would make him a bad fit for a WCO style offense, largely horizontal vs vertical, with screens and slants and quick hit pass pays as the staples of the offense, as opposed to a lot of deep passing? He seems to make quick decisions, and gets rid of the ball quickly. (and appropriately quickly .... not in a panic) He hits hit receivers and allows them to make plays. To me, this seems to be what a team would want in a WCO style QB.
What am I missing?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
What am I missing?
His brother sucked.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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