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I have no problem w/you liking Teddy as a QB or not. Of course, everyone has a right to their opinion. But, saying a guy stinks because he was the highest rated qb before the season is not a valid reason for why he sucks.
Not sure what is so hard to understand about that????
Mourg and steve don't like Teddy that much, but at least they have valid reasons.
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Farmer expressed something a long time ago. There was one QB that has stood out for him and who they will target. He then put some yaba dabe doo in there about it might not be who we expect it to be.
My point is - if that is true. There is a guy he is sold on as THE GUY for us. He will not risk the chance of that QB being available at 26. Whoever it is he will take them at #4.
jmho of what is the plan
Maybe. If Garappalo is that guy, I doubt he takes him at #4. I think Farmer has a pretty good idea where guys will be slotted.
No doubt he isn't going to wait for some guy to fall a whole round to get back to us, but if his guy is slated as a 2nd rounder, we could use #26 to get him.
When he said that he also said something about he might be a guy not many really think about. I took that to mean a guy most might think of as a 3rd round type guy.....I don't think Farmer would elevate him to the #4 pick just to get him.
I do see what you are saying. Much like when we drafted Weeden. Heck and crew thought we could get him in the 2nd but Homie didn't want to take the cance of waiting. I think Farmer will do that. He is going to take whoever it is before he has to sweat it out unless someone simply breaks the mold.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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As of yesterday, he has him as his 3rd best QB, behind Mettenberger and Bortles. Take it for what it is worth.....
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Boy, that Roosevelt had some jacked-up teeth, didn't he?
That's probably what led to his philosophy of speaking softly and carrying a big stick 
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actually i like Teddy a great deal and think he has Drew Brees potential but I dont think Drew would be worth much in the afc north in nov and dec either lol. I think dome teams and warm weather teams suit him best. I think he stock with the cold weather teams is nonexistant at this point but he would have high value to say the titans, jags and even the vikings in their dome and they have AP for days when its gonna be difficult throwing it.
I am a firm believer in environment. Now the funny thing is, with all these QBs, i still had Mallett rated higher than any qb in this draft.
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actually i like Teddy a great deal and think he has Drew Brees potential but I dont think Drew would be worth much in the afc north in nov and dec either lol. I think dome teams and warm weather teams suit him best. I think he stock with the cold weather teams is nonexistant at this point but he would have high value to say the titans, jags and even the vikings in their dome and they have AP for days when its gonna be difficult throwing it.
I am a firm believer in environment. Now the funny thing is, with all these QBs, i still had Mallett rated higher than any qb in this draft.
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I like Mallet a lot too, but I think that was more a result of how horrible I thought that class was. Cam turned out to be good which saved it, otherwise you're looking at Andy Dalton and Kaeprnick being the best from that class.
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Now you can make an argument for other factors but Dalton and Kaepernick are 5 for 5 in making the playoffs as starters. Throw in Cam's playoff appearance and after 3 years, this class is every bit as good as the Eli, Rivers, Big Ben draft in making the playoffs..... So if that's your argument for why this QB class is horrible then I can only imagine what you think of some others...
yebat' Putin
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I thought the class was horrible going into the draft, not necessarily now. I do think both Dalton and Kaep are over rated given how good their teams are.
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Now you can make an argument for other factors but Dalton and Kaepernick are 5 for 5 in making the playoffs as starters. Throw in Cam's playoff appearance and after 3 years, this class is every bit as good as the Eli, Rivers, Big Ben draft in making the playoffs..... So if that's your argument for why this QB class is horrible then I can only imagine what you think of some others...
Really?
Because what I see comparing those two draft classes is this:
2011 4 playoff wins (All Kaepernicks 49ers), Dalton and Newton 0-4
2004 4 Super Bowl wins, All of the QBs mentioned (+Schaub) have at least 1 playoff victory
We have a ways to go to see the class comparison I think...
BTW, 2004 also has Matt Schaub with 4 playoff games and 2 wins...
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I like Mallet a lot too, but I think that was more a result of how horrible I thought that class was. Cam turned out to be good which saved it, otherwise you're looking at Andy Dalton and Kaeprnick being the best from that class.
My biggest fear is that we like this QB or that QB simply because they are the best in this class.. Not the best...
There was none of that when Luck came out.None
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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There was none of that when Luck came out.None
But that was the exception to the rule...an anomoly. How many drafts have a generally acknowledged franchise QB available? Let's simply do our "homework" and go get our guy...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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If you don't draft a QB because they aren't Andrew Luck... Then you won't be drafting a QB for another 10-15 years.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If you don't draft a QB because they aren't Andrew Luck... Then you won't be drafting a QB for another 10-15 years.
you would think after last season, we would all know how big of a difference it makes between having a competent QB (Hoyer's 2 games) vs. an incompetent QB (Weeden!!!)
#gmstrong
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Well, before Peyton it was Aikmen then before that it was Elway. Before that it was Plunkett. That was 71. So about 5 per 33 years. So every 6-7 years more or less.
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If you don't draft a QB because they aren't Andrew Luck... Then you won't be drafting a QB for another 10-15 years.
I'm not saying to NOT DRAFT a QB.. Where did I say that?
Go read what I responded to...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You said... Quote:
My biggest fear is that we like this QB or that QB simply because they are the best in this class.. Not the best...
You can only draft the best of the current class...
So if you don't want them to draft a guy because he's the best of a specific class. Then you obviously don't want them to draft anyone...
You want a guy like Luck.
Guys like Luck only come around every 10 years...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You said...
Quote:
My biggest fear is that we like this QB or that QB simply because they are the best in this class.. Not the best...
You can only draft the best of the current class...
So if you don't want them to draft a guy because he's the best of a specific class. Then you obviously don't want them to draft anyone...
You want a guy like Luck.
Guys like Luck only come around every 10 years...
No, that's not true..I'm sure there is a guy in there somewhere that they feel can be a starter..Whoever that is, that's who I want them to draft.. I just don't have a name.
Name one person that doesn't want a guy like Luck...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Name one person that doesn't want a guy like Luck...
The current starting QB of any of 15 or 16 different NFL teams ...... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Name one person that doesn't want a guy like Luck...
The current starting QB of any of 15 or 16 different NFL teams ......
I would say that's true
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hi ThatGuy, Thank you for your comments. They all made a lot of sense, and I appreciate the time you took to thoughtfully address my obvious confusion. I do have my fingers crossed re: Draft Day. I agree that we have 5-10 years of team structure and strength on the line, so we need to avoid a Darko Milecic/Len Bias type of draft. (I hate to jump on a guy when he is down, but the Weeden pick sort of fits into that category. I hope he makes it somewhere...) Anyway, my favorite hobby, even before football, is fishing, and we, at heart, are all optimists. I guess that's why I remain a Browns Fan! Thanks again!
#gmstrong
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I think Dalton stinks. If I were in charge of the Bengals' draft, I would trade everything I had to move up and take Teddy.
They have the most talented offense in the entire NFL, other than an erratic qb.
You know...................I have a really bad feeling about this draft. I think history repeats itself yet again. We will pass on a top qb and draft a stiff----------namely Carr. He'll have his apologists, just like Timid, BQ, and Weeden did..........and we'll blow another 3 three years.
I will say this.............I won't be sticking around this time.
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Hey Versitale Dog just curious what your thoughts are on Zach Mettenburger!
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I wrote a couple of detailed reports earlier this year when I was studying him.
I was excited about him at first because of his big numbers and his arm. However, after studying him, I wouldn't draft this guy until round 4 or 5.
He does have a good arm. He can be accurate at times. He spreads the ball around. He sometimes looks like Tom Brady. All are positives.
On the other hand, he is erratic w/his accuracy, especially after being pressured. He makes some really dumb decisions and doesn't look off the safety.
My biggest issue w/him is his set-up. He has a very stiff front leg. He doesn't move in the pocket. I predicted he would suffer a knee injury and I predict he'll suffer more of them.
I wouldn't draft him.
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Dalton is a warm weather QB. Halloween is considered the beginning of winter football and from halloween to playoffs Dalton had 2 decent games and 7 crap fests. before halloween he easily had 6 or 7 good games where he looked like a pretty damn good QB.
I think you need a big arm, big hands and good accuracy to be successful in the north. I like Carr but like Bridgewater he doesnt have the biggest hands and that worries me with the fumblitis as the ball gets cold and is harder to grip.
I really think there is no better fit than Johny Football for the Browns. I have been going over each of these QBs over and over and he is just above everyone else in providing everythign we need in a QB other than size.
I think the only question left for me, is do you trade above the jags for him?
Last edited by Mourgrym; 04/16/14 09:37 PM.
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.............I won't be sticking around this time.
I believe that I understand where you are coming from, but you know that Farmer & Company will do their very best for our team...their continued employment depends on it. While we obviously have no control over their selections, we do have the option to either get on board, or not. I trust it will be the former...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I believe that the three FO's who chose Timid, BQ, and Weeden all thought they were making the right move.
I was extremely opposed to all three moves for precisely the same reason[s] that I do NOT want us to draft Carr. I don't want to watch the same crap unfold yet again.
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You can only draft the best of the current class...
So if you don't want them to draft a guy because he's the best of a specific class. Then you obviously don't want them to draft anyone...
I don't believe that's the point. The point is WHERE do you draft him. If you have a very strong belief that Clowney is going to be the next Bruce Smith or Reggie White but only a glimmer of a feeling that any of the QBs can be near that good, then at 4 you take the DE.. every single time. So maybe you don't get the best QB of the draft class... oh well.
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You want a guy like Luck.
Guys like Luck only come around every 10 years...
Actually guys like Luck come along far more often than that.. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisburger, etc all drafted within a 10 year window... it's only once every 8-10 years that it's OBVIOUS that a guy is going to be like Luck. Almost none of those guys were considered the best in their class but now they are the best in the NFL ... There is no obvious choice this year so while you may consider the best of the class to be Bridgewater or Manziel (not sure who you like at the top) the simple fact is that there is a strong possibility that 5 years from now the most successful QB from this draft will be Bortles or Garoppolo or McCarron... So take the surest thing at 4 and take a QB later..
yebat' Putin
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Actually guys like Luck come along far more often than that.. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisburger, etc all drafted within a 10 year window... it's only once every 8-10 years that it's OBVIOUS that a guy is going to be like Luck.
yes and in 10 years Two of those are ready to ride off into the sunset closing in on 38 years of age...
Leaving Drew Brees 35
Ben Roethlisberger 32, injuries mount with every year of beating he takes
and finally the only one that will stick around long enough to play against this draft class in their prime
Aaron Rogers 30
So, when this class is in their prime in 3 years, 2-3 of these guys will still be here and you will be comparing these QBs to the RG3s and Matt Ryan's of the NFL...
Where do they compare to THESE QBs? That's what you have to look at..
You had 5 examples in a TEN year window, yet there are 32 teams in the league.
It only magnifies the fact, if you can find a QB that excels above his peers (not the possible HOF 5% of the NFL), then you have to relegate that talent accordingly.
When looking to take Greg Robinson, you aren't looking to draft him to replace Joe Thomas, who is the top 5% in the NFL...You are looking to replace Mitchell Schwartz...
When those of you are talking about drafting Sammy Watkins, it isn't to replace Josh Gordon (who may or may not even be in the top 5% in the NFL), it is to replace Greg Little...
You are arguing that there are 5 QBs drafted over a ten year period that these QBs probability is they won't live up to...Are you applying that same standard to every other player you are evaluating?
So why are you looking for Teddy Bridgewater to replace the Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's of the NFL?
I will argue till I am blue in the face, based on tape, Teddy Bridgewater coming out of college shows me more than Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, etc...that is his peers, not the ones who have had a HOF career.
Johnny Manziel only has a couple of comparisons, because his skill set is vastly larger than JUST a typical QB. Based on his throwing skills alone, I put him behind Bridgewater, but on par with many of those mentioned in the previous paragraph. Take his other skills into account and his peers become Cam Newton, RGIII and probably Colin Kaepernick...With the film study I have to compare, Manziel is ahead of RGIII and Kaepernick and on par with Cam Newton...
Out of the "Peer Group" you have Manning, Stafford, Bradford and Newton who are #1 overall picks in the same time period discussed, ten years...2 more are top 4 picks, then you have Kaepernick..
Would any of you take Matthew Stafford at #26 in 2014? Of course you would...Do any of you think he would be available at #26 based on his NFL career? Of course not...Do you think if you could erase his NFL career, would he be the #1 overall pick? With Bridgewater's body of work, I would argue the decision would be MUCH more difficult, but at the end of the day Bridgewater will not make it past the top 3 draft picks because his film shows a QB that played at the highest levels of his position...PERIOD.
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I do see what you are saying. Much like when we drafted Weeden. Heck and crew thought we could get him in the 2nd but Homie didn't want to take the cance of waiting.
Well kinda sorta...There is no way on Earth Weeden was THE GUY above all else for the 2012 draft. It was in their eyes the best runner up to THE GUY they were trying to get. Luck (not much of a try cause no chance) but we tried hard for RG3 as well as Bradford (not draftee but trade). Weeden was a desperate move.
This would be a little different in the sense...It would be their FIRST CHOICE of all in this draft. The guy above all. Let me give a for instance. What if its Carr and we pass up on him at 4...will he get buy the Vikings? or some other teams...there are a lot of teams between 4 and 26. Those who passed on QB 1 n 3..will they move ahead of us to get him. What I'm saying is they are all a reach...outside of the few NO BRAINERS like a Luck or a Payton...every QB taken is a reach and should not be slotted 1-10. Was Tannehill a #7 - NO WAY but if he turns out the be THE GUY...who cares. This is not a Weeden situation as in a desperate move after the guy we really wanted we could not get him. QB should never be a guy INSTEAD OF...
So again I'm not saying its right or wrong. I'm saying if there is a guy they are SURE OF above all others as THE GUY. You don't want to JERK around and play games of slotting so you can get a good grade by KIPER and the rest of the DRAFT BOZOS. If this is the guy and the best of the class. GET HIM! If that is at 4 for a Garapolo...I don't care as long as they are sure of it. AS A FAN I'm with them! Who cares if you can get him at 26...MAYBE? You don't jerk around with THE GUY!!!
Not predicting here. Just if its me and I KNOW ONE OUT THERE IS THE GUY...I don't care who judges me...I make sure I walk away from this draft with him on my roster!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Weeden was a desperate move.
Yup he was. My biggest fear is that happens again. I mean, you still gotta try.. But I hope we choose wisely this time.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Irish, let me try to explain it a different way and why I posted that list and this is it... Quote:
It only magnifies the fact, if you can find a QB that excels above his peers (not the possible HOF 5% of the NFL), then you have to relegate that talent accordingly.
I totally agree with that.. but the reason for the list I posted, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, heck add Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Tony Romo.. these are all somewhere between good and great NFL QBs.. and none of them were considered the best in their class coming out of college yet they have excelled above most of their peers.
When I chimed in it was about the point that we should take the best of the class even if it's not the best the same way Andrew Luck was the best.. and my point is that the best of the class frequently is NOT the guy with the best long term success... when that choice isn't obvious ala Peyton, Aikman, Elway, Luck...
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Would any of you take Matthew Stafford at #26 in 2014? Of course you would...Do any of you think he would be available at #26 based on his NFL career? Of course not...Do you think if you could erase his NFL career, would he be the #1 overall pick?
See the way I'm thinking is, if you did NOT erase Matt Staffords NFL career, would he be the #1 pick in the draft this year? I seriously doubt it. He's pretty good, he's above average, but has he shown enough in the NFL to say yes without a doubt he'd be the #1 pick again? I don't think so. Would I take him at #4? I'd consider it but it wouldn't be a lock.
Sometimes I think as Browns fans, we have suffered through such horrible QB play for so long that we would be ecstatic just to see average QB play...
yebat' Putin
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See the way I'm thinking is, if you did NOT erase Matt Staffords NFL career, would he be the #1 pick in the draft this year? I seriously doubt it. He's pretty good, he's above average, but has he shown enough in the NFL to say yes without a doubt he'd be the #1 pick again? I don't think so. Would I take him at #4? I'd consider it but it wouldn't be a lock.
But see, there-in-lies the issue with 20/20 hindsight argument...You get to take all the good and the bad to make your decision...
Now, take away his NFL injuries, would that be the same conclusion?
I would say if you were told his accolades, without disclosing his injuries, each and every one of you would take Matthew Stafford #1 overall and there would be no debate.
You can't factor in injuries...can't do it because every player in this draft is subject to the same exact exposure to injuries.
That is why I get so sick of hearing, we can't take Johnny Manziel because he might get hurt...There have been "can't miss" prospects at every single position in football who have failed due to injuries. His abilities actually make him less subject to injuries if you watch the tape, simply because he isn't a statue that sits and takes a hit. Rarely does he not see a hit coming and he is able to shift slightly to get hit with much less of a "boom" than someone like Carr is going to do.
Now, shifting this theory, to say Robinson or Matthews...They are getting hit on every single play they are lined up for...Every play, they are exposed to injury..Linemen are relegated to mediocre every year based on injury alone, yet these two are at the top marked as near can't miss despite this.
Which is a more realistic view in evaluation? You must take the injury argument out of your evaluation unless that player shows a history of injuries pre-draft.
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I would say if you were told his accolades, without disclosing his injuries, each and every one of you would take Matthew Stafford #1 overall and there would be no debate.
You tell me a QB has been in the NFL for 5 years, had one of the best WRs of all time on his team and has had 1 season over .500 and his record is 24-37 and I guarantee you there would be debate. His yards are great, he slings it for a lot of yards... his TD/INT ratio isn't great, his completion % isn't great... but for the record, I wasn't even thinking about his injuries when I used his name.
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we can't take Johnny Manziel because he might get hurt...There have been "can't miss" prospects at every single position in football who have failed due to injuries. His abilities actually make him less subject to injuries if you watch the tape, simply because he isn't a statue that sits and takes a hit. Rarely does he not see a hit coming and he is able to shift slightly to get hit with much less of a "boom" than someone like Carr is going to do.
Not arguing for or against Manziel but don't most serious QB injuries come from plays outside the pocket? Isn't that when they get concussions because they duck their head? or get their knee rolled up on the wrong way when they are in traffic? All of the rules put in place to protect QBs are designed to protect them when they are IN the pocket.. once they scramble outside they become more like football players.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,984 |
Quote:
once they scramble outside they become more like football players
Is that like a drummer almost being a musician? 
Joe Thomas #73
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
j/c...
one last thing before the thread locks up and starts anew. Before this Draft stuff all started...it was said several times after last years draft that this draft class for QB was going to be a strength...now as it gets closer to draft day - its a weak class. I just think that is kinda odd.
jmho 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
j/c...
one last thing before the thread locks up and starts anew. Before this Draft stuff all started...it was said several times after last years draft that this draft class for QB was going to be a strength...now as it gets closer to draft day - its a weak class. I just think that is kinda odd.
jmho
That always happens. Everybody is always great. Then when people either start actually looking at them, or just get bored and want to write an article, everyone isn't as great as they were...
It's media driven.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Quote:
You can't factor in injuries...can't do it because every player in this draft is subject to the same exact exposure to injuries.
Again....I agree. If a guy is cleard as healthy, then that is the starting point.
You can't plan for or expect injuries. You just play the game and deal with it if it happens. If you allow that fear to dictate what you do in the draft, etc., you are probably going to put a bad team on the field.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
So Mel Kiper has Teddy as the highest rated QB on his board..
But now has Teddy as the 4th QB taken.. in the second round to Houston..
I don't even know how that makes sense.
Last edited by ThatGuy; 04/17/14 07:05 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Quote:
So Mel Kiper had Teddy as the highest rated QB on his board..
But now was Teddy as the 4th QB taken.. in the second round to Houston..
I don't even know how that makes sense.
I know....I saw some of that bit and it had some of Teddy's workout...it looked like the kid was tossing a picnic ham around the field. It wasn't pretty.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Teddy Bridgewater Redux
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