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Rotoworld - Morris Claiborne Apparently, Morris Claiborne could be on the trade block. Orlando Scandrick took his starting job last year and Brandon Carr is the other starter. Carr and Scandrick are locked in to long term deals, Claiborne is still on his rookie deal, and the Cowboys have lots of needs. They also have B.W. Webb for depth. We have lots of picks and press corner appears to be a need in Pettine's defense. They tried to get Shields, Revis and Rodgers-Cromartie. Our #4 pick might be too high for Justin Gilbert or Darqueze Dennard and our #26 pick and lower might be too low to get a good press corner. Would any of you be interested in a trade for Claiborne? At what cost?
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Rotoworld - Morris Claiborne
Apparently, Morris Claiborne could be on the trade block. Orlando Scandrick took his starting job last year and Brandon Carr is the other starter. Carr and Scandrick are locked in to long term deals, Claiborne is still on his rookie deal, and the Cowboys have lots of needs. They also have B.W. Webb for depth. We have lots of picks and press corner appears to be a need in Pettine's defense. They tried to get Shields, Revis and Rodgers-Cromartie. Our #4 pick might be too high for Justin Gilbert or Darqueze Dennard and our #26 pick and lower might be too low to get a good press corner. Would any of you be interested in a trade for Claiborne? At what cost?
He's been a huge bust in Dallas - that being said -- Claiborne is a guy who was made for man to man schemes (as is Haden). Given that we were heavily interested in both Revis and DRC (also great man-to-man CBs), I think we would be interested in Claiborne as well. I'd probably give them a 4th along with a 4th next year if he starts at least 10 games.
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I'd consider him. I admit I haven't followed him all that much but remember reading that he wasn't playing man coverage in Dallas-- his strength. Could be wrong.
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j/c
He might be interesting, but admittedly I'm not up to speed on his pro performance to date. A conditional pick might be the way to go should we show any interest...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 03/24/14 07:28 PM.
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It all depends on the asking price.
Fifth round or later I am in.
Claiborne was the 6th overall pick just two years ago. He is worth taking a chance on. It's not like he is a bad character guy.
He can't be worse than Chris Owens, right?
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Kiffin was DC = Tampa 2 Zone Coverage
He's a misfit, although a high pick like him should still do good enough in any scheme, but he's made for man to man.
Really liked him in that class and would pay up to a 4th + a future conditional. He'd be under contract pretty cheap for two more seasons.
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j/c You have to wonder if Claiborne is really that bad. Miami was searching for DB help last year picking up Chris Owens. Didn't Miami waive Owens at year end? If Owens wasn't good enough and looking to dump Claiborne, Browns don't need it. Claiborne appears to be Miami's Weeden. Dang it I got the wrong dang team.  Thanks cfrs for pointing that out! I flipped Claibore with Dion Jordan. Rumors were Miami was dumping Jordan.
Last edited by bugs; 03/24/14 07:51 PM.
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If Claiborne is the Cowboys Weeden then it would make sense if he ends up with us, as they got our Weeden (Weeden).
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He is considered a bust, but he wasn't horrible, just very inconsistent. He may not be the star shutdown CB the Cowboys traded up for, but he can still settle in this league as a solid to good CB2. He has all the tools for that.
Since I don't think the Cowboys want to sell cheap on him, a deal is almost impossible this offseason. Anything under a 2nd/3rd would be a PR nightmare for Jones.
A deal I could see struck is something like our 2nd 4th (#83) and a switch of picks 35 and 47. The net value would be that of a low 2nd/high 3rd. Maybe throw in a conditional 7th next draft that can escalate up to a 3rd depending on playing time and accolades.
Remember, the Ravens paid a 4th and 5th for Monroe in-season and he was in his last year of his deal. That'll be the low end of any offer for the Cowboys who still have Claiborne under control for 2-3 more years
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Use a player like Hughes thats flashed a little something and toss in a 4th and that would allow Jones to save face as he can seel it that he is getting this secret weapon the Browns had stashed behind depth.
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We need to keep Hughes around for next season when Rubin's contract is up.
Too bad we cut Weeden, we could have traded him for Claiborne.
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I admit that I really liked this kid coming out of college. It appears I was dead wrong about him.
I am reading about the man/zone stuff, but I really don't know if that is why he has sucked or not.
This is a topic I want to research further. If anyone has information, please share.
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everyone liked him out of college it seemed and I am no different. but, man, has he looked bad for Dallas. I'm not giving him a pass on that for scheme because he should have been fine and tackling was supposed to be good for him (and that is one of his chief responsibilities where he has failed).
all that said, for a cheap price, I would consider him as he's got the talent and maybe we can milk it out of him. I wouldn't go higher than a 6th this year and a sliding scale conditional for 2015 based on number of starts (maybe even all the way up to a 3rd but probably 4th).
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If Claiborne is the Cowboys Weeden then it would make sense if he ends up with us, as they got our Weeden (Weeden).
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I would definitely be interested. Not sure what would give up to get him. I am horrible at that. Players get traded for a 7th round pick that I would give up a forth or fifth for. While others get a 1st and wouldn't give a forth or fifth.
If we trade a player, I think it would definitely be a defensive lineman. Dallas needs some stoutness and we have depth. I suspect with his contract that Rubin would be the guy we look to offer. Then maybe sign Carrington to replace him.
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I was a HUGE Morris Claiborne fan. I thought if we paired him with Haden... we were set. I was wrong.
I would like to get him in here for a while Haden can teach him how to be a better player and maybe he will BLossom.
sometimes it takes three years for the lights to really come one. I think Dallas was a little hard on him his rookie year. He's only 24 (same age as Haden) and would be a great reclaim project. We can also easily get another 6 years out of both of them.
What's the worst that happens?
He ends up being the 4th DB on the team or converted to S... I'll take that for a 5th round pick.
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What's the worst that happens?
He ends up being the 4th DB on the team or converted to S... I'll take that for a 5th round pick.
+1
Add in that a change of scenery and being traded away might make something click (see Brandon Phillips).
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not 100% sure but I think his development has been slowed down by some injuries and also they went from Rob Ryans 3-4 D to Monte Kiffin's Cover 2.
He might not be the brightest bulb but He might not be a bad pick up. Keeping in mind he'd have to beat out Skrine who has improved every season. So he would be the #3 or #2 which would put us 4 deep w/Trufant. Of course right now its just board speculation but of all the guys that we go - got to get this guy...I wouldn't mind pursuing it
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not 100% sure but I think his development has been slowed down by some injuries and also they went from Rob Ryans 3-4 D to Monte Kiffin's Cover 2.
He might not be the brightest bulb but He might not be a bad pick up. Keeping in mind he'd have to beat out Skrine who has improved every season. So he would be the #3 or #2 which would put us 4 deep w/Trufant. Of course right now its just board speculation but of all the guys that we go - got to get this guy...I wouldn't mind pursuing it
JMHO
This - remember he supposedly scored a 4 on the Wonderlic. And his ability to pick up playbooks had been challenged.
Of course, in college he could stay on any man like glue.
I think you stick him into a man scheme opposite Haden, and we could have a very good defense. Maybe you take him out on 3rd and long when you want to play a soft zone (and don't want a mistake).
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In that case, wouldn't it be better to have a guy that's average in man-2-man and zone instead of having someone that can play only one very well.
By trotting him on and off the field, wouldn't the opposing team know what defense you're about to run?
I thought NFL QBs daydream about knowing when the defense is playing man-2-man because they're normally smart enough to figure out who is in single coverage quite quickly.
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In that case, wouldn't it be better to have a guy that's average in man-2-man and zone instead of having someone that can play only one very well.
By trotting him on and off the field, wouldn't the opposing team know what defense you're about to run?
I thought NFL QBs daydream about knowing when the defense is playing man-2-man because they're normally smart enough to figure out who is in single coverage quite quickly.
Doesn't have to be every time - I just mean in times that it is obvious you are going to be in a zone anyway (like 3rd and 15).
And - no, our defense is set up to have CBs play in man frequently. At least in college, Claiborne was an elite CB in press coverage and man. I'd love to have him on the team for that skill alone.
Finally, it's not like its an either/or - you can put your CBs in press/man - and still have a safety on a deep zone over the top, or having the ILB play zone across the middle.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 03/25/14 05:33 PM.
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remember he supposedly scored a 4 on the Wonderlic.
Ouch!
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Wow... I was pimping this guy hard out of LSU... Eeeeekk
I'd also take him for a 5th rounder at minimal.
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yep as stated I didn't think he was the brightest bulb...didn't realize his score was that low. Oh well hopefully he got a point for spelling his name right 
Oh and In my previous post I forgot to add McFadden. I know he had a slow rookie season. I still like his potential and I am a believer in players developing some slowly some go bang zoom.
Right now we have 4 players in Skrine, Haden, McFadden and Trufant. I still like the prospects of adding Claiborne. Let him compete and learn slowly if need be. Usually a score of 4 is a sign of just not caring about the test. As in they start and then its like - Why bother. Not saying he would have scored big time just probably he would have been over 10 if he applied himself.
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If he said "why bother..." than it is even more of a red flag.
Again, I actually liked the kid coming out of college. I can admit when I was wrong.
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I would take him for our late 3rd round or 4th ... He has the talent.. use him man on man... huge talent.. get him
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http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id...erlic-test-says"I mean, I looked on the test and wasn't nothing on the test that came with football, so I pretty much blew the test off," Claiborne said. When asked Thursday if he regretted not taking the test more seriously, Claiborne said he did. "If I knew there was going to be this much heat about it ... Yeah," Claiborne said. Claiborne said he knew the test score would not affect his draft stock, but he admitted that he was bothered by some of the public mocking he endured after the score was reported. "When it came out, some of the things that were said ... I'm human, so I had a problem with some of it, but I didn't let that get me down," Claiborne said. "I know what type of person I am. I know that test doesn't reflect on how I learn or what type of a person I am." ---- I think those are the most important quotes/pieces in the article. The fact that we don't know anyone's Wonderlic scores and can't make a correlation between that and good play makes it hard to credit the Wonderlic as a useful test. We also don't know how it's graded or who its graded by; I believe that JP Lossman (or some QB that played for the Bills) was told that he was told he had two different scores told to him. Though honestly, if the Wonderlic could predict anything then the GM/HC's/Scouts who have all turned media personalities would be dying to get these numbers and make a talking point out of it. I mean, if the Wonderlic was big, we'd pay attention to it like we do the 40 and the Bench Press.
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So, your point is that it has absolutely no value and his poor play in the NFL thus far has nothing at all to do w/a lack of intelligence, but he's just been unlucky?
And are you saying that blowing a test off that you know NFL teams use is okay?
I'm not following the logic?
I am not saying that test is all that important, but when a guy scores that low because he is really that dumb or because he doesn't care and then stinks in zone coverage in the pros because he doesn't understand his assignments........well.......there might be something to the story.
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Quote:
not 100% sure but I think his development has been slowed down by some injuries and also they went from Rob Ryans 3-4 D to Monte Kiffin's Cover 2.
He might not be the brightest bulb but He might not be a bad pick up. Keeping in mind he'd have to beat out Skrine who has improved every season. So he would be the #3 or #2 which would put us 4 deep w/Trufant. Of course right now its just board speculation but of all the guys that we go - got to get this guy...I wouldn't mind pursuing it
JMHO
This - remember he supposedly scored a 4 on the Wonderlic. And his ability to pick up playbooks had been challenged.
Of course, in college he could stay on any man like glue.
I think you stick him into a man scheme opposite Haden, and we could have a very good defense. Maybe you take him out on 3rd and long when you want to play a soft zone (and don't want a mistake).
Reminds me of the movie, The Waterboy.. Hell, if he can play tough and effectively, he can be as dumb as a rock LOL
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I remember hearing his answer to that and it came off as someone trying to make people think he didnt care more than him actually having trouble reading. I am not certain but didnt he have dislexia or something like that?
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Well, Clairborne has NOT played effectively. He has been a "bust." It's been well-documented about his failures in Dallas and there is a reason they might deal him for a mid-round pick.
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I don't know, Mourg.
I took it as him making an excuse for his low score, but I could be wrong.
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well, i kinda agree with the overall point.
but then i have to think of all the 1st round players that scored high on the test and still bombed out when it actually came time to start in the NFL.
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I'm sure he doesn't have the "stupid" market cornered in the NFL.
For the right price I'd give him a go.
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Yea I dont think rocket surgery is in his future anyway you slice it. Our interest will depend upon Rob Ryan. There is a strong connection between Pettine and the Ryan brothers so if we dont show interest its very telling.
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If Jim O'niel is going to dial in a lot of man press, which he'd be dumb not to with monsters like Haden and even Skrine - I'd possibly consider him in that regard. A low possibly...
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Yea I dont think rocket surgery is in his future anyway you slice it. Our interest will depend upon Rob Ryan. There is a strong connection between Pettine and the Ryan brothers so if we dont show interest its very telling.
What do the Saints have to do with this?
 
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So, your point is that it has absolutely no value and his poor play in the NFL thus far has nothing at all to do w/a lack of intelligence, but he's just been unlucky?
And are you saying that blowing a test off that you know NFL teams use is okay?
I'm not following the logic?
I am not saying that test is all that important, but when a guy scores that low because he is really that dumb or because he doesn't care and then stinks in zone coverage in the pros because he doesn't understand his assignments........well.......there might be something to the story.
My point is that the wonderlic provides no real foundation to judge a player on, so discussing it as an actual tool of worth is irresponsible to us. I also believe that doing an aptitude test that shows no correlation to success is useless and should be treated as such if one wishes. I highly doubt that NFL teams use the Wonderlic test as a real way to grade players.
I would say that Claiborne has a host of problems that could be affecting his play, he's often injured, the Cowboy's defense sucks, and that bend-but-don't-break defenses do more harm than good. That's just the on-field reasons, he could be Bessing it off the field as well, but I doubt that.
He had to sit out the whole offseason because he got wrist surgery his rookie year. Then on he played as a nickel and showed some promise with Ryan's defense, but not what you want out of the 6th pick.
This year he sat out 5 or 6 games and probably played most of them injured. That said, Monte Kiffin is an old man who the game has gone past. As a result his defense was horrendous. No one was getting pressure on the QB, the DB's were playing scared, letting up a lot of intermediate to short gains + YAC. I believe you could throw in Sherman this year and the Cowboys would still have a lot of trouble. It's just not a good defense or defensive philosophy anymore. Granted Claiborne really sucked, but I don't think all of it was his fault, he did bite on some plays and make some bonehead mistakes, but all 2nd year players do that.
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And he is currently the fourth cb on their roster behind the legendary Orlando Scandrick. Sometimes, I get the feeling that people on the boards don't value intelligent people and like guys who are not intelligent. I have no idea why that is, but it seems to be a theme.
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And he is currently the fourth cb on their roster behind the legendary Orlando Scandrick.
Sometimes, I get the feeling that people on the boards don't value intelligent people and like guys who are not intelligent. I have no idea why that is, but it seems to be a theme.
I agree with you Vers... and thats why i want Bridgewater. But in Claibournes case i think his natural talet is worth a late 3rd 4th round pick. Just put him man on man so he doesnt have to think.
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