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lets be real here.
is your name erik?
lets say me and you have the same qualifications.
the employer see's Erik, and then he see's J'Quan.
yea, we all know who's going to get that job.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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The culture has to change, Swish.
You are not going to be generationally successful if you sell drugs. You can be successful throughout generations if you accept education as your savior. It truly is w/out dispute. Those who keep relying on illegal methods to survive will thrive for awhile, but will ultimately fail.
It's about education, Swish. It's about morals. It's about work ethic. Until that changes, nothing will change.
That might sound racist. That may sound like I am a Republican. That may sound like I have never experienced poverty on the front line. None are true.
I have hope for the poor. They can work their way up. The corrupted rich capitalists that CHS spoke of................well...........I have no hope for.
i get what you're saying, but perhaps you not quite getting what i'm saying.
some poor kids, even if their white, sometimes have no choice but to sell drugs to support their family.
poor kids have a much higher rate of single parent homes, mostly mothers. if the father stepped out, the mom is the only provider. what if she can't provide? when the kids get to 14, they are already looking for jobs.
well if theres not that many jobs in the inner city for teens, and if there's openings, you can bet there are other teens trying to get that job, or hell, even full grown adults.
well, the bills aren't going to pay themselves, and mom's already been evicted. there's no telling if the family can recover from another eviction in an already poor hood.
so guess what those teens do? go ahead and slang. go to the inner city, and ask the majority of the drug dealers why they sell, and most of them will probably tell you its because they have to. most don't WANT to.
hell, i was close to selling. for a period of time, both my parents had hard time finding jobs, and they both ETS out the military. i was THAT close to calling a connect to see if i can grind, because i was old enough to know what a eviction notice means.
but i was one of the few lucky kids that actually had both parents. so i had guidance.
others aren't so lucky. yes, there are educational opportunities out there. yes, there's the internet. but a 12-16 year old kid with no dad, a public high school that if the teacher is absent there IS NO SUBSTITUTE to show up, doesn't even know those resources are there. so they might as well not even exist for all the teen knows.
but you know what does exist? selling drugs to help pay rent and the light bill, to have clothes on your back. food on the table.
you also have to remember too, as i'm sure you know Vers, there are some serious shady parents that use their kids SSN to take utilities out in their name, and don't pay the bills.
so when the kid turns 18, maybe needs college loans or other things, he CAN'T get anything, because his credit is already jacked up. and what are you going to do, sue your own mom? lets be real, 99 percent of people aren't going to sue their own parents. and even still, its going to take forever to get it off your credit anyway.
DC's post was pretty much dead on. its 2014, and everybody has equal chance of making it IF they start at the same level, race plays little to no part in it.
but thats not the case with inner city kids. they start from such a hole that its almost impossible to change the trend.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Inner city kids have it bad? Well, yeah. Why?
How about a kid that grew up in a town of about 20,000 people. In a single parent home. (and please know right up front, this isn't me) A kid that, with his 2 older brothers and mom, moved more times than he can count. A kid that, due to utilities being shut off and mom not paying rent, etc - a kid that went to 5 different elementary schools in ONE year.
How about this kid, and his older brothers, that grew up with no food? A step father that literally pulled the kids hair out of their heads? A kid whose stepdad would take off for 2 weeks at a time? A kid that never knew his biological father. A kid that volunteered to be a crossing guard in school, because the secretaries at school brought in hot chocolate for crossing guards. A kid that knew which neighbor to go to, on which day, in order to get some food.....
A kid that got loans to go to college - then got his girlfriend pregnant, and married her.
A kid that, today at age 37, has his masters degree, and is the CFO of a million dollar company (and hold on - total sales are only about 5 million - so we're not talking GE, or GM, or anything like that)
A kid with 2 older brothers, from the same parents, living the same life - well, the 2 older brothers are unemployed, have been for years.
Explain that to me. 3 kids, from the exact same situation - exact same blood line.............1 is a success - the other 2 are sponges. How does that work?
This guy I'm talking about now makes a salary of 80 g, and gets quarterly bonuses of anywhere from $3000 to $8000.
Oh, he, and his siblings, are white. Started off in Adrian Michigan, then Hudson, Addison, etc.
Life handed him a bag of turds, he and his brothers. The brothers accepted the turds, he didn't. The 2 that just accepted the turd sandwich still have nothing (but they do have kids).
Even with his salary and bonuses, living in the far n.w. corner of Ohio (cost of living isn't anything like a city) they (he and his wife - same wife) are raising 2 kids, paying the bills even though with the student loans and the house payment it's a struggle.................
How can this one guy do it, when his siblings raised in the exact same situation can't? They live off the public dole - he doesn't.
Might it be a tad harder if you're not white? I won't argue that. What I will argue is desire, education, and being intelligent have more weight than skin color.
This guy I'm speaking of is one of my best friends. Different times, when he's talking about his childhood - the beatings, the no food, the no electricity, the begging neighbors for food....I can't believe he is where he is. His brothers can't believe it either.
What I'm saying is, all races are included in crappy, poor upbringing. Blacks don't have a corner on that market. Education, and desire, can overcome an awful damn lot.
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i didn't make this a black thing in my last post. i included all, even white. there's a lot of races in the inner city, blacks and hispanics just happen to dominate the majority.
thats an amazing story. but not once did i see where your friend supported his family as a teen. or had his mom use his SSN for bills.
because your friend actually got to get student loans. a lot of inner city kids simply CAN'T.
so while thats a nice story, and he struggled, the odds weren't stacked against him.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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lets be real here.
is your name erik?
lets say me and you have the same qualifications.
the employer see's Erik, and then he see's J'Quan.
yea, we all know who's going to get that job.
I hire lots of people across the country, and that's a load of crap. It would never enter my mind to care about the color of someone's skin in my hiring process, and I am not unique.
If you believe you are a victim, then you absolutely will be one. That statement above cannot be stated as fact. There are MANY, MANY employers who do not care about your race.
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Quote:
Quote:
lets be real here.
is your name erik?
lets say me and you have the same qualifications.
the employer see's Erik, and then he see's J'Quan.
yea, we all know who's going to get that job.
I hire lots of people across the country, and that's a load of crap. It would never enter my mind to care about the color of someone's skin in my hiring process, and I am not unique.
If you believe you are a victim, then you absolutely will be one. That statement above cannot be stated as fact. There are MANY, MANY employers who do not care about your race.
and there are many many employers that DO. two way street. homey.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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i didn't make this a black thing in my last post. i included all, even white. there's a lot of races in the inner city, blacks and hispanics just happen to dominate the majority.
thats an amazing story. but not once did i see where your friend supported his family as a teen. or had his mom use his SSN for bills.
because your friend actually got to get student loans. a lot of inner city kids simply CAN'T.
so while thats a nice story, and he struggled, the odds weren't stacked against him.
Hell no I didn't go into details.
Odds stacked against him? Didn't support his family? (well, as much as a kid can)
Dude, you're the one making this a race thing - the inner city thing. It's completely different in the inner city, right? Every mother uses their kids ssn as a way to pay bills, right? Like, in todays world, the ssn isn't linked up to age, right?
Here it is: Life can be a bitch for anyone - inner city, or suburbs, town of 20,000 (or 4,000).........don't give me this crap about a lot of inner city kids can't get loans.
You tell a nice story about inner city kids that aren't allowed to overcome their surroundings. It's a darn nice "feel bad for them" story.
And yes, the odds were stacked against him. His step dad left for weeks at a time because he made money selling drugs (step dad). His stepdad also died of an overdose of heroin. He never knew his dad, because drugs killed his dad.
You sound like you're making excuses for people to be down and out their whole life's. I'm showing you that it isn't up to the circumstances one is forced into, or born into.
I have another friend - from the "inner city", that is currently serving a 30 year sentence. I knew him as a foster child, starting at about age 5.
He spent most of his years, from 5 on up to 18, here. Graduated h.s. - decided money was a lot easier to get selling drugs. Busted, in prison. 3 years I believe. Got an education in prison, in automotive mechanics........got out, got a job. Decided that work thing wasn't what he wanted, and started selling drugs again.
Prison - again. Got out, got busted again - now he's serving his 30 years in Florida.
Dude had every opportunity to transform himself - but, it took work. He didn't like the work, he liked the easy money.
He's of Mexican descent, if that matters to you.
Save all your "it's different for inner city kids" crap for someone else.
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i JUST said i didn't make this a race thing, since i CLEARLY said all races live in the inner city, including whites, who go through the same situations living in the inner city...which if you don't know what i mean..is ghetto.
and you're trying to tell me i'm making this a race thing on this particular part of this thread.
until you learn how to read and realize what i'm saying, this discussion with you is over.
jesus....
we can have a discussion. a debate, thats fine, but don't sit their and tell me MY experience is wrong because YOUR experience is different. its MY point of view.
some of you guys...
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Convenient excuse for some. You are obviously quite one sided on this topic. It's a waste of time discussing it with you, but I will add one more example. As I mentioned earlier, I believe in this thread, I have a colleague and she and I do the same type of work. We often are both considered for the same job in the consulting world. We have almost identical education and experience. I'm white and she is black. Sometimes I get the job and sometimes she does, there is absolutely no disparity in the number of jobs we get hired for. As I travel across the country, I have yet to run into anything like what you describe. And I ain't your homey. 
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side note.
i can tell some peoples political alignment just off the post they make. there's always a way out. post like that.
if there was always a way out, there wouldn't be poor people all over the damn planet. its a SERIOUS problem. especially in 3rd world countries.
but because a select few had the stars align for them, that means everybody can get out of a crap life, right?
tell that too the poor people all over the world. sometimes, there ISN'T a way out. man...some of you guys act like you live in a different universe where unicorns and rainbows are in high supply.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Convenient excuse for some. You are obviously quite one sided on this topic. It's a waste of time discussing it with you, but I will add one more example.
As I mentioned earlier, I believe in this thread, I have a colleague and she and I do the same type of work. We often are both considered for the same job in the consulting world. We have almost identical education and experience. I'm white and she is black. Sometimes I get the job and sometimes she does, there is absolutely no disparity in the number of jobs we get hired for. As I travel across the country, I have yet to run into anything like what you describe.
And I ain't your homey.
i'm not one sided on this topic at all. see, your problem is you think cause you know a few people that goes against what i'm saying, that my experiences must not exist. seems to me you're the one who's closed minded...homey 
i already know there are ways out, to grind it out for some, hell...I made it out.
but you're problem? you think i'm talking about grown adults.
i'm talking about KIDS. they didn't ask to be born to poor parents, or parents who put themselves in the situation from the jump. they don't know any better.
THATS who i'm talking about. the influence and guidance for the kids. the teens.
so you're right, its a waste trying to talk with you about our experience when you're one sided. good point, brah.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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lets be real here.
is your name erik?
lets say me and you have the same qualifications.
the employer see's Erik, and then he see's J'Quan.
yea, we all know who's going to get that job.
I hire lots of people across the country, and that's a load of crap. It would never enter my mind to care about the color of someone's skin in my hiring process, and I am not unique.
If you believe you are a victim, then you absolutely will be one. That statement above cannot be stated as fact. There are MANY, MANY employers who do not care about your race.
and there are many many employers that DO. two way street. homey.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Consequently, it seems you are looking to use that as an excuse - maybe not for you, but for others.
I seem to remember you stating you have used, or are using, the military to get an education - and you want to turn that into you being in the top 1%.........and then deciding the top 10% would be okay,,,,,,,,,,,,,but then saying your wife already almost puts you in the top 10%.
I also seem to recall you saying you should be able to be in the top 10% by only working 40 hours a week. Because, as you said "if I can do in 40 hours what someone else can do in 60 hours.............." That's all well and good. I know many ex military people that put their time to good use.
Hey, homey, just calling it as I see it. You aren't any better or worse than me, or anyone else.
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and there are many many employers that DO. two way street. homey.
While I've disagreed with a lot you've had to say in this thread Swish (like your assessment on some kids HAVING to sell drugs, yet the ridiculously high majority of inner city kids don't have to. They do it because it's easy money and an opportunity they don't have to work/look for), this part is true. There are some jobs that prefer hiring white people over black people.
And one of the major reasons why, is because i've seen it. Now I've seen it work the other way too as well, where specific jobs are easier to get if you're a minority, simply because of pressure for more diversity from outside places.
But in my experience, one place I recently worked at hired it's first black person may be 3 or 4 years ago. I only worked for them for a year after that. It was a club of sorts, and years before this I remember the manager saying that he "doesn't hire black people because he knows what the members want". I always thought this was ridiculous and part of the sad ignorance in the town this is in (wealthy, suburban community, near a major city). But in this case, it's true. If you were an african-american, you probably wouldn't get hired.
He'd continue hiring the local high-school/college/out of college white kid. Now recently this trend changed, but the point being, this was a job where you stood a much better shot at getting it if you were white because of who the manager preferred to hire. Besides this whole part, the manager was a fine guy to work for. Although I haven't found many jobs where I hated my boss. Only student teaching, but that's it.
But this is a case, Jules, which goes against what you do
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Quote:
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lets be real here.
is your name erik?
lets say me and you have the same qualifications.
the employer see's Erik, and then he see's J'Quan.
yea, we all know who's going to get that job.
I hire lots of people across the country, and that's a load of crap. It would never enter my mind to care about the color of someone's skin in my hiring process, and I am not unique.
If you believe you are a victim, then you absolutely will be one. That statement above cannot be stated as fact. There are MANY, MANY employers who do not care about your race.
and there are many many employers that DO. two way street. homey.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Consequently, it seems you are looking to use that as an excuse - maybe not for you, but for others.
I seem to remember you stating you have used, or are using, the military to get an education - and you want to turn that into you being in the top 1%.........and then deciding the top 10% would be okay,,,,,,,,,,,,,but then saying your wife already almost puts you in the top 10%.
I also seem to recall you saying you should be able to be in the top 10% by only working 40 hours a week. Because, as you said "if I can do in 40 hours what someone else can do in 60 hours.............." That's all well and good. I know many ex military people that put their time to good use.
Hey, homey, just calling it as I see it. You aren't any better or worse than me, or anyone else.
if you're going to quote me, you better not do it out of context.
you damn right i wanna be part of the 1 percent, or atleast aim too.
but that last part, you took it out of context completely. i was talking to mill talking about how americans are overworked, and the process of getting something down quick and efficient and then just being at work to pretty much brown nose.
don't quote me out of context. it ruins your credibility.
i never ONCE said i was better than anybody else. i never even alluded to it. i've said mulitple times that some poster are straight up better than me because i have exactly ZERO civilian experience, unless you count best buy when i was 16-18 as a job. i made post to specifically ask HOW guys on this board got sucessful, multiple guys PM'ed me, and yet you wanna through out that crap statement saying i'm not better than anybody. well DUH.
there's a difference between making an excuse and telling people the reality of the world around us. if you wanna debate the advantages between inner city/poor kids and suburban raised kids, lets do it, thats what this thread is about.
but if you wanna dismiss MY experience cause you had a different lifestyle, then thats where this discussion ends, because i'm not telling you you're wrong with your experience, cause i don't know you.
common sense....
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Convenient excuse for some. You are obviously quite one sided on this topic. It's a waste of time discussing it with you, but I will add one more example.
As I mentioned earlier, I believe in this thread, I have a colleague and she and I do the same type of work. We often are both considered for the same job in the consulting world. We have almost identical education and experience. I'm white and she is black. Sometimes I get the job and sometimes she does, there is absolutely no disparity in the number of jobs we get hired for. As I travel across the country, I have yet to run into anything like what you describe.
And I ain't your homey.
Being condescending is not good for discussion.
However you're not incorrect because obviously it's your own personal experience. However, sample size. You and your female friend are just one example. Race absolutely plays a factor for some places. It goes both ways. Companies won't hire minorities and some will hire people because they ARE minorities.
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Again, I have no real interest in discussing this with someone so hostile and who has their mind so made up on a topic. But, I don't just know a few people. I work with thousands of people across the country in lots and lots of states. Please stop trying to trivialize everyone who doesn't agree with you. You might also stop taking political pot shots at those who differ from you. It's a real turn off. Carry on....as I know you will. Oh, and I believe that's about the 5th time you have assumed I'm a guy. That would be just one more thing you are wrong about, brah. 
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Please read my post above I am not just talking about the two of us, and please don't lecture me on how to post. You of all people talking about condescension. Hysterical.
And please read the post I was quoting of his, he made an across the board post about who would get hired in that situation. Which is crap.
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i don't care if you're a guy or a woman or both. the point still stands. don't dismiss my experience as false, since i'm not doing it to yours.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Please read my post above I am not just talking about the two of us, and please don't lecture me on how to post. You of all people talking about condescension. Hysterical.
Difference is that I try to not be codescending on a sensitive subject such as this. I know it's "your thing" to be pretentious and condescending whenever you can then try to act like someone else is the problem. However it would be nice if you didn't on this thread. However I don't expect you to. I expect some emojis as well like "  "
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i don't care if you're a guy or a woman or both. the point still stands. don't dismiss my experience as false, since i'm not doing it to yours.
I never said it doesn't happen, don't put words in my mouth. I said your post above, which came across as a global statement on what would happen in your scenario, is absolutely false. It does not happen everywhere, and it does not happen all the time. Not even close.
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i get what you're saying and why you disagree.
but kids who don't have money, can't buy a car, can't get across town if thats where the jobs are.
now to get to the other side, there are a few kids who sell just long enough to get some cash for a car, then grind out going across the city to work.
i had a home boy that did that. he grinded enough to get a 98 honda civic. he found a job at the mall...all the way in parma heights, and we lived on 147th and Kinsman. but once he got the whip, he stopped selling and went legit.
i wish more kids did that, but you know what money does to people. get cash coming in like drug money, people get hooked. they don't want their lifestyle to change.
but remember, its all they know for the most part.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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You don't have to read my posts if I'm so offensive to you. Please stop derailing this thread with your little attacks. Nobody is interested in your opinion of me.
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Quote:
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i don't care if you're a guy or a woman or both. the point still stands. don't dismiss my experience as false, since i'm not doing it to yours.
I never said it doesn't happen, don't put words in my mouth. I said your post above, which came across as a global statement on what would happen in your scenario, is absolutely false. It does no happen everywhere, and it does not happen all the time. Not even close.
"I hire lots of people across the country, and that's a load of crap. It would never enter my mind to care about the color of someone's skin in my hiring process, and I am not unique.
If you believe you are a victim, then you absolutely will be one. That statement above cannot be stated as fact. There are MANY, MANY employers who do not care about your race. "
THATS what you said. so you take my post out of context, then get mad when i do the same thing to yours by accident.
maybe you and i should work on being clearer in our post.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I thought I made myself pretty clear. Making a statement like you made is simply not true. That's what I said.
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Quote:
I thought I made myself pretty clear. Making a statement like you made is simply not true. That's what I said.
and once again, you made it seem like it NEVER happens, because it never happened to YOU.
i'll just stop if you still can't see what i'm saying for whatever reason.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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Legend
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Nope, I said there are many, many places who don't do what you described. Many does not mean all. You made a blanket statement that you apparently didn't mean to come across that way. If that's the case, then this was more of a wasted conversation than I initially thought. Haha.
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lets be real here.
is your name erik?
lets say me and you have the same qualifications.
the employer see's Erik, and then he see's J'Quan.
yea, we all know who's going to get that job.
I'd say that employer is a moron. As I stated before, I worked with a guy that sounded like he was right out of worst neighborhood of DC, because he was. He even described himself as a DC 'n-word', born and bred. This guy was one of the best engineers I've ever met. He was able to get himself to the position he was in because he worked hard for it, and he made no bones about that fact. He was also not one to say he had it harder because he was black. Life is hard because life is hard. It's what you do with yourself that makes it harder. Someone's name does not make them a thug, stupid, or a loser. One of the worst people I've ever worked with was a NYer that lied about his abilities, and told bull about everything, and he was white.
I've worked for straight, lesbian, gay, black, white, men, women, arabs, muslims, etc, etc, etc. I couldn't care less about that stuff, as long as they don't care about that stuff. Thank you for your obviously biased opinion.
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Dawg Talker
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The fact that there are non-white male workers in all kinds of employment doesn't erase the point that discrimination still exists. I completely understand and agree that if someone is persistent and works hard they can do well. The point is there are advantages and disadvantages which cause certain people to need to put in the extra effort, while on the other hand I've worked with and for white guys who I wondered how in the world they got the jobs. 
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Hall of Famer
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I've worked with and for white guys who I wondered how in the world they got the jobs.
And I've worked with plenty of minorities where I said the same thing. That's generally more of a case of who you know, in my opinion.....
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Legend
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Legend
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And?
I never said you were wrong. I simply stated 2 cases from MY experience. For you to discount MY experience is rather juvenile.
It's a big world - going into it with a chip on your shoulder makes it even tougher for you.
I told you about a white guy that had everything going against him - yet he succeeded not because of what he came from, but because of what he wanted to be. His brothers? Hey, they fell in line with the whole "the world is against me, so why should I try?"
I told you about a guy from the inner city that moved out to a place with fantastic parents..........he decided the easy way was selling drugs.
I told you where both of them are right now.
And, I don't believe I ever once said anything about my lifestyle, or my upbringing.
The chip you have on your shoulder can be an ally, or an enemy. It is YOUR choice. Not mine, not any future employer - it is YOUR choice. Go into a job interview with a bad attitude - a "I'm owed, but since I'm X race I won't get this job".........that's exactly what you'll get.
I would guess it happens frequently......dude goes in to an interview, doesn't get the job, then says "Damn, homey didn't get a chance, brah. I was just as qualified as the chump that got it.."
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,368 |
Quote:
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I've worked with and for white guys who I wondered how in the world they got the jobs.
And I've worked with plenty of minorities where I said the same thing. That's generally more of a case of who you know, in my opinion.....
That does seem like the case a lot of times. I am amazed at the people who get promoted to management jobs who have absolutely no management skills or knowledge at all. It's a mess to go in and clean up after them.
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
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There have been many, many researches done on the topic of name alone and you're wrong. I'm glad that you're an exception though.
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Legend
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OP
Legend
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nobody is discounting your experience.
but just like i told jules, you fail to realize that i'm talking about teens. kids. not adults.
in both situations, your experience with your friends, they were able to make it to college, to be in a situation that they could get to a job interview.
thats awesome. seriously, no sarcasm. i'm glad they made it out.
but they were adults when it happened.
and in MY experience, a lot of my friends never made it that far.
you guys keep saying theres always a way out, but you're treating the situation as though kids should be acting like adults. and the world simply doesn't work like that.
they need guidance, a positive influence. with out that, they RARELY make it out. yes, there are exceptions, but the statistics speak for themselves.
if a teen is the child of a mother that had him at 17-18 years old, no father, and the grandparents are rarely there,
who's fault is that? THATS my whole point. we keep saying there's always a way out, when the root of the problem is kids who don't know any better.
and thats a society problem. we as a society keep trying to put bandaids on the problem instead of getting knee deep in surgery to fix the root of the issue.
some say the education system is fine because we throw money at it.
let me tell you how crap excuse and dodging of the problem that is. in high school, i went to JFK, cleveland municipal school district.
we weren't allowed to bring books home because there wasn't enough for all the students. we had to sit in class in 4-5 man groups because of the lack of books.
if a teach missed a day, like a sick day, there was NO substitute. we sat in class unsupervised.
and watch, somebody reading this post is going to say or think "well, you should've been reading instead of doing whatever in class".
once again, we need to stop this unrealistic idea that kids need to act like adults. then my parents found a job, and went to a private school my junior and senior year.
i was shocked. we have books to take home? we have homework? hell, the classroom was clean?
once again, i got lucky.
look, all i'm saying we all got stories of somebody who made it out, but that doesn't mean its possible for the majority, or even a few more. in 2014, it isn't so much about race anymore. but if your family is poor living in the inner city, you start off in a massive hole before you are even old enough to take a cell phone out in your name.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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I would guess it happens frequently......dude goes in to an interview, doesn't get the job, then says "Damn, homey didn't get a chance, brah. I was just as qualified as the chump that got it.."
I don't think anyone uses the word 'homey', even infrequently.
And I'm pretty sure the odds of 'homey' 'brah' and 'chump' being consecutively are zero.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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i didn't make this a black thing in my last post. i included all, even white. there's a lot of races in the inner city, blacks and hispanics just happen to dominate the majority.
thats an amazing story. but not once did i see where your friend supported his family as a teen. or had his mom use his SSN for bills.
because your friend actually got to get student loans. a lot of inner city kids simply CAN'T.
so while thats a nice story, and he struggled, the odds weren't stacked against him.
I believe that anyone who wants a student loan qualifies. (at least for federal loans)
Further, low income students (and/or students with parents with little or no income) qualify for tuition assistance, and assistance for other costs like books and such. Some pay nothing to attend college.
I always had to fill out tons of forms for employees each year as school started. Some were for the employee himself, and sometime so an employee's child could get assistance. I managed one store that drew heavily from the inner city. I have had tons of experience with this kind of thing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I believe that anyone who wants a student loan qualifies. (at least for federal loans)
Further, low income students (and/or students with parents with little or no income) qualify for tuition assistance, and assistance for other costs like books and such. Some pay nothing to attend college.
I always had to fill out tons of forms for employees each year as school started. Some were for the employee himself, and sometime so an employee's child could get assistance. I managed one store that drew heavily from the inner city. I have had tons of experience with this kind of thing.
I definitely agree with this, but it's not always that easy.
One thing I will say is that those forms are ridiculously complicated. When you have to file, what you have to file, all that stuff. It's pretty difficult.
Honestly, my mother did it for me during my undergrad years, and when I went back to school a year later (and did it myself), I couldn't believe how complicated it was. May be I'm just bad with forms, but I'm a straight A student. Give me the materials, the test, I'm fine.
But that darn financial aid is complicated as heck. It's one step easier than dealing with health insurance folks and finding out how much procedures cost.
May be that's just me though. I just knew that I was always confused, and I was always at the financial aid office trying to figure out what I had to do, and what type of loans I wanted. And I thought to myself, that at 23 or 24 years old, it being such a pain in the butt, I dunno what I would have done when I was 18. lol
But, that's what financial aid advisors/coordinators are for at college. And the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so you just bother a financial aid person until you get your answers/figure out what you want
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't know how it is in other schools, but when I went to YSU, they had tons of advisors who would all but fill out the paperwork for young students.
I went back as an adult, and had to get by on my own for the most part, but the kids got a ton of help.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,968
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,968 |
Quote:
they need guidance, a positive influence. with out that, they RARELY make it out. yes, there are exceptions, but the statistics speak for themselves.
if a teen is the child of a mother that had him at 17-18 years old, no father, and the grandparents are rarely there,
who's fault is that? THATS my whole point. we keep saying there's always a way out, when the root of the problem is kids who don't know any better.
Just wanted to highlight this.
Yes, I think that is the root of the problem. JMO (and your's too, I think)
Now, if you, me, or anyone else can SOLVE that problem...................
The question is: How?
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Legend
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Legend
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You are acting like I'm arguing every point with you. For the hopefully last time, I was responding to a comment you made, referencing names that would indicate race, that a white person would get the job over a black person. If you are switching this whole conversation over to whether poor children have the same advantages that more wealthy children have, then it's a completely different discussion. Lack of education is a huge factor, and even more importantly, some of these children are not emotionally nourished. Somebody that comes from bad parenting and lack of education, is most certainly likely to have all kinds of trouble succeeding. You blame society. I'm one who likes to place responsibility where it needs to go, and that is with the parents, and their parents, and so on. In order to make a dent in this problem we have to face some hard realities on all sides of the argument. One of those realities is that a good number of these people are in the predicament they are in because of their own choices and decisions. Also, short of taking these kids away from their parents, it can be very hard to influence, educate, and give them what they need. These types of parents are unlikely to involve their kids in any type of social program that might help them. It's a really difficult situation. I'd love to see more support and funding put into some of the programs I've seen work, like involving kids with music or caring for animals. Those types of programs can and have changed lives. I think blaming and trying to make people outside of these situations feel guilty about what is happening in some segments of society is completely counterproductive. The government, as usual, is not the answer. These ideas and programs need to come from grass root individuals and groups. They do a much better job and cut away the ridiculous red tape. It's always been my dream, and I've talked about it on here before, to have a farm where the whole animal and farm experience interact with kids in need. These places work great, but there aren't near enough of them. Now, if people like me would actually follow their dreams instead of flying around the country doing things they would rather not be doing, then we might make some progress on these issues.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
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lets be real here.
is your name erik?
lets say me and you have the same qualifications.
the employer see's Erik, and then he see's J'Quan.
yea, we all know who's going to get that job.
I hire lots of people across the country, and that's a load of crap. It would never enter my mind to care about the color of someone's skin in my hiring process, and I am not unique.
If you believe you are a victim, then you absolutely will be one. That statement above cannot be stated as fact. There are MANY, MANY employers who do not care about your race.
and there are many many employers that DO. two way street. homey.
You're right. It is a two way street.
There's also some employers who will hire J'Quan over Erik because they feel some sort of obligation to.
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