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Seriously... I like Hoyer but it really bothers me when peeps try to say Hoyer was 3-0. No he wasn't. He barely played in that 3rd game and we were losing when he got hurt! It's cheap to try to give him credit for that win. Even if it's technically accurate to say "we won all 3 games that Hoyer started"..... it's just significantly misleading to anyone that doesn't know the truth.
That bothered me too until I was convinced that the reason the team played so well in that 3rd game is because Hoyer was with them all week in practice and had them ready and believing they could win.
Even the defense. Yes, even the defense. Hoyer brought the energy level of the whole team up and even the defense went into that 3rd game on a high.
The evidence for all this is to look at how they played when the practices were led by a QB other than Hoyer.
Hoyer had the team prepared, excited and believing they could win. That's the big difference. I'll give him that 3rd game due to the way he had them so prepared even Weeden couldn't screw it up. 
#gmstrong
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"Even the defense. Yes, even the defense. Hoyer brought the energy level of the whole team up and even the defense went into that 3rd game on a high"
Hoyer gave our play makers a reason to believe. It even surprised me to watch the "team" play better. I see no reason why he won't bring it again this year. Seems like he even has a chip on his shoulder to prove the doubters wrong. I look forward to the quarterback position to get better, including the draft!
If I only knew then what I know today...
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I think the single biggest thing that made Hoyer look so good is Weeden.
Granted, Hoyer's quick release really helped things, but man, I can't help but feel that so much of the hype & hope attached to him is simply the result of the stark comparison between his play and Weeden's
Weeden made average look great. That's exactly what we saw.
I think you guys are right, but I believe there is more to it.
Hoyer did some things well that you really like seeing in a qb.
--He played up-tempo and it helped keep the defense off-balance.
--He was accurate w/most of his throws.
--He made very good reads for the most part. He did make two horrible reads against Minni in his first game, but you could see his disgust as soon as he threw them. He actually knew what he did wrong. The third pick was not his fault, his arm was hit while throwing after someone on the right side whiffed.
--The kid made big throws when we most needed him to do so.
--He instilled energy into the entire team and much of the fan base.
--He scored at the end of halves and at the end of games.
Hoyer was impressive. More impressive than his stats indicate. The shame of the entire thing is that his body of work is way, way too small. For this reason, we must draft a QB high. I really feel bad for the kid. I root for underdogs and he is certainly that. What a bad freaking break.
I do think he can succeed because of some of the things he displayed last year, but we simply can not count on that to come to fruition.
Oh...........and as far as the number of wins go.............who really cares?
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I dont disagree with you on a lot of that-- but again, i dont think those things you mentioned about hoyer show up in camp.
Sorry man, but this doesn't make any sense to me. If BH can't impress anyone in camp then what makes you think anyone else can? Unless I'm missing something, BH has the bigger edge on any comp. simply by being here last yr. and having pretty good tape to go by. I have to agree with Daman that you just knew we are a better Team with BH in there than anyone else. It's gonna be hard to replace that with a Rookie. Like you said, It's gonna be hard to impress anyone unless you go head to head and no one is going to get to do that until pre-season.
because i think the front office and coaching staff decides they need to draft a QB who can be our franchise QB.
just because brian hoyer inspired hope in a desperate fanbase, doesnt mean he did the same thing to guys paid millions of dollars to ensure the best players are on the field and winning games, or else they get fired. I dont see guys like that riding the low percentage hope train, i dont see them handcuffing themselves to hoyer. He played in 2 games, where, statistically, his QB rating was lower than weedens the following two games. and as we all know, weeden sucks.
Stats arent everything, i know that, but the fact is, these guys are unbiased. i mean seriously, people here are saying hoyer uplifted the entire team, even the guys who were in different rooms than him, he inspired them enough to win.
im sorry but thats just not enough for the people in charge to say "yeah he is our guy."
seriously, he had two consecutive games, 92 pass attempts, plus one scramble that resulted in an ACL TEAR.
theres no way thats the guy they put all of their eggs into the basket for.
so if we can agree on that, my next point relies on the front office drafting a QB high.
once in camp, i think again, hoyers strengths dont show up as much as during real games.
Once competing in camp against THEIR GUY, i think we see camp happen like all camps seem to happen. Its sloppy, sloppier than preseason. They allow guys more time to sit in the pocket and wait for the play to develop since there is no pass rush. One of hoyers greatest strengths is he seems to find the first man open and get it to him. thats cool, thats works, but when the guy he is competing against is spending too long in the pocket for week 1, but long enough in the pocket for july and august----- i think he hits more big impressive plays. Meanwhile, hoyer is making a lot of smart plays that will will in regular season, but get overlooked by the fact that theres a greater tolerance for patience in the pocket during camp.
its just a hunch, i dont know any better than anyone else, but its what i saw this past summer while i was at browns camp. Hoyer seemed more like the intelligent back up who was efficient but not spectacular. Meanwhile weeden and campbell looked more explosive because they took longer to make the passes, but the completions were more down field.
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good post versatile^^^
I agree. It's a shame he ignores me, as recently I've been agreeing with him on a fair amount. But, my opinion is just that - opinion. In other words, my agreeing with him doesn't make him, or me, right......but I agree with him here.
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J/C
Anybody who watched those games and couldn't see the leadership on display, has no clue.
Good players elevate those around them. I can honestly say that I can't think of another player since '99, who lifted the team like he did. There was confidence all over the field, and he was the one who inspired it. Great QBs have that ability. I don't know if Hoyer can be great, but if he can raise the play of the players around him, that makes him a leader, and that is what you want from your QB.
I really think sitting all those years and learning helped him immensely. You can tell it helped being in the room with Brady. It used to be young QBs got time to learn, IMO, that is what is missing today. Good college QBs are not being afforded the time to learn what to do at this level. I think it has ruined some that could have been good if given time to grow into the pro game.
Hoyer has gotten to do this, and it is not out of the question that he could end up being very good because of it. Last year, he never took reps with the starters until the week he was named starter, yet, he overcame that and after his missteps in the Minny game, corrected things and produced very well the following week.
I got a feeling that he is going to come back and surprise all the naysayers. I truly believe that the light has come on for him, and he is going to be a good player.
The problem we have as Browns fans, is we never see things like this happen. That causes many to poo poo away his performance. He most likely will never be a top 5 guy, but with the pitiful play of the QBs that have been here, a competent QB can be very satisfying. If we had competent play last year from the position, I truly believe things would have been different.
That being said, the defense was every bit as responsible, if not more, than the offense. When you are leading in the 4th quarter, it is the defense that has to be able to hold the lead.
#gmstrong
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I never put you on ignore. I just stopped replying to you because I was afraid I would say something to get me suspended. LOL
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...and the myth of Saint Hoyer keeps being spread  He never came close to being a 60% passer at any level, College or NFL. He barely threw more TDs than INTs, College or NFL Sub 6.5 yds/PA the past two seasons The D gave up 30+ points to Ponder in his first start, but yeah, his "appearance" made them play better Aren't you the poster who reminds everyone of non factual stuff being posted again and again and again and people start believing it? Because that's exactly what you're doing when it comes to Hoyer. Pit is right, Weeden sucking has more to do with anything Hoyer "flashed". I'd add the timing of Gordon coming back from suspension too and facing banged up DBs. Gordon made Hoyer along with him being smarter and more experienced than Weeden. Hoyer is also more likeable...all lot of off field stuff went into this what now has become an overestimation of his skill level
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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He hit receivers in stride, made quick decisions, and didn't make too many blunders.
None of those are things we could say about Weeden after 3 NFL starts.
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Jc
Quickly----- we can't pass on a qb if they feel one is their guy. Love Hoyer, but 2 game is NOT enough to hope for.
I will say I had goosebumps walking into the game Hoyer got hurt. The place had a buzz about it like we knew we were gonna win because of Hoyer. Less than hr later place goes silent while they drag Hoyer over a few feet off the field.....
But honestly we are only a qb away from being a good team. Average qb play brings hope to us. That's what Hoyer played, average. Draft one four, I don't care anymore. Hoyer might get beat by rook cause of knee. If not fine. Let's see what hoyer has. Then when he goes down (cause our qbs always do at least a few games) throw in rook. That's our best shot at a playoff team. Tired of settling when we know what we need
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He hit receivers in stride, made quick decisions, and didn't make too many blunders.
Having a 12 mnth subscribtion to NFL GamePass I have watched last seasons Browns games over and over. And imo as a passer Hoyer was not that great. I think a lot of fans are looking through rose coloured glasses. Hoyer missed a lot of receivers (59% completion if you need stats), yes he made some nice passes but slightly above average at best. What he did bring was 2 things:
1. He motivated the team (now i agree this is huge). When Weeden or Campbell played it just seemed like someone let the air out of the Browns. Its why I think people over rate Hoyer.
2. He was a huge improvement over Weeden and Campbell (glad we got rid of both).
IMO Hoyer is not the answer (although will be happy to be proven wrong.. go Browns), and boy do we need a QB. My only question is, does this years group of QB provide the answer? This is the dilemma I have this year. I am not sure any QB this year will be an improvement (lol maybe I am setting too high a standard).
Everyday I seem to change my mind whether we should take a QB in the 1st round.
Last edited by Dawg_down_Under; 04/01/14 03:12 AM.
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I think we have to take a QB. Simply not enough material on Hoyer to put all our eggs in his basket. If both work out, trade one. But at least we have a QB at that point.
Btw my antipodean dawg where in Aus you at? ;-)
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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"When Weeden or Campbell played it just seemed like someone let the air out of the Browns. Its why I think people over rate Hoyer." Nail on the head! 
GO BROWNS!
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never mind Vers...
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 04/01/14 06:22 AM.
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For those who believe Hoyer is not the answer...do you believe he will get better as he gains experience?
...and how can we say he is not the answer, based on just 3 starts?
IMO, Hoyer is an unknown...we need to see more before trying to label him, one way or the other.
I know what I saw and I liked it...now show me more.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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J/C
Anybody who watched those games and couldn't see the leadership on display, has no clue.
Good players elevate those around them. I can honestly say that I can't think of another player since '99, who lifted the team like he did. There was confidence all over the field, and he was the one who inspired it. Great QBs have that ability. I don't know if Hoyer can be great, but if he can raise the play of the players around him, that makes him a leader, and that is what you want from your QB.
I really think sitting all those years and learning helped him immensely. You can tell it helped being in the room with Brady. It used to be young QBs got time to learn, IMO, that is what is missing today. Good college QBs are not being afforded the time to learn what to do at this level. I think it has ruined some that could have been good if given time to grow into the pro game.
Hoyer has gotten to do this, and it is not out of the question that he could end up being very good because of it. Last year, he never took reps with the starters until the week he was named starter, yet, he overcame that and after his missteps in the Minny game, corrected things and produced very well the following week.
I got a feeling that he is going to come back and surprise all the naysayers. I truly believe that the light has come on for him, and he is going to be a good player.
The problem we have as Browns fans, is we never see things like this happen. That causes many to poo poo away his performance. He most likely will never be a top 5 guy, but with the pitiful play of the QBs that have been here, a competent QB can be very satisfying. If we had competent play last year from the position, I truly believe things would have been different.
That being said, the defense was every bit as responsible, if not more, than the offense. When you are leading in the 4th quarter, it is the defense that has to be able to hold the lead.
This is what I'm hoping for as well. Hoyer was very exciting to watch.
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He hit receivers in stride, made quick decisions, and didn't make too many blunders.
Having a 12 mnth subscribtion to NFL GamePass I have watched last seasons Browns games over and over. And imo as a passer Hoyer was not that great. I think a lot of fans are looking through rose coloured glasses. Hoyer missed a lot of receivers (59% completion if you need stats), yes he made some nice passes but slightly above average at best. What he did bring was 2 things:
1. He motivated the team (now i agree this is huge). When Weeden or Campbell played it just seemed like someone let the air out of the Browns. Its why I think people over rate Hoyer.
2. He was a huge improvement over Weeden and Campbell (glad we got rid of both).
IMO Hoyer is not the answer (although will be happy to be proven wrong.. go Browns), and boy do we need a QB. My only question is, does this years group of QB provide the answer? This is the dilemma I have this year. I am not sure any QB this year will be an improvement (lol maybe I am setting too high a standard).
Everyday I seem to change my mind whether we should take a QB in the 1st round.
I think Hoyer is credited with being "accurate" because of his BALL PLACEMENT on those 59%.
I specifically remember a few of his incredibly perfect passes, in stride, to a WR who was running at full speed. Its pretty sad, but it was like it was the first time we saw a QB place a ball IN FRONT of the receiver, allowing him to make the catch without adjusting his body at all, and it allowed for better YAC than we saw with our other QBs.
Also, he threw the prettiest fade i have seen a QB throw in cleveland in a long long time.
So yeah, his accuracy wasnt overly impressive to me, but i do think that he had better ball placement on those 59% receptions than the other QBs had on their 54% completions. So not only did he jump up 5% in completions per attempt, he was putting a few of those balls in really well placed spots. So between the increase in %, the ball placement, and having his body of work compare to the other QBs on the team-- i can see why Hoyer is looked at as "accurate."
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Also, i remember having a conversation mid season with my brother, trying to understand why the offense and team looked so different under hoyer.
I started thinking about gameplanning with QBs. When you have a guy like weeden, he has a big arm, can make all the throws, but he doesnt have it between the ears, and he is inconsistent at best. Conversely, Hoyer appeared to be more accurate, more cerebral, and more efficient.
Knowing that, going in to games, you have to make some very different game plans. You only have X many offensive drives, so you have to establish "how can i best score, per drive?"
With Hoyer, you may design your offense to march down the field with small chunks at a time. You know he is more efficient, more accurate, and appears to take what the defense gives him, not waiting for a huge play to develop, but quickly finding your open man and moving the chains. Thats cool, that works a lot of the time. With that kind of QB you keep at the small stuff and try to score by repeatedly making it down the field each scoring drive, stacking first downs. If you dont make it, you punt it off or maybe a FG, and keep let your defense hold them down.
With weeden, on the other hand, you have a guy who probably will not be able to play that kind of game. You dont see him making quick reads, passing it, moving the sticks, setting up, and doing it again. Instead it seemed more like you recognized that in order to score, you were going to need a few big plays. Low percentage stuff, yes, but big enough gains that while he may only hit on 10% of throws of that type, they make for gains that are 5x as many yards compared to a play that is 4x more successful as far as being completed, but doesnt end up yielding as many yards.
So between those two types of game plans, you have a very different look, as well as attitude.
With Hoyer, i felt like the game plan gave the rest of the offense the feeling that every single play counted, and every single play meant something. With Weeden i felt as if the offense knew it was in a less efficient offensive system, and that the success was reliant more upon weeden having a random stretch of good plays, surrounded by a number of offensive drives that turned out to be pointless because the good work you did at the beginning of the drive ended up meaning nothing without the low percentage big play saving any drive that was to have success.
Now this is entirely speculation. I have no idea if that was true, it just seemed to be the case to me, and made sense to me. It would be like if a basketball team was shooting only 2 pointers or only 3 pointers, yet arriving at the same score. The team shooting 2 pointers would have had a lot of passing and team work, and make more of their shots for a higher %. That team would look more like a team, more like everyone was in to it, than if you were to look at a team shooting only 3 pointers. That team would have less team work and passing and all that, and instead be relying on the bigger scoring shots. I imagine the 2 point team would look like a much better cohesive unit than the 3 point team. (this is obviously a super simplified analogy..)
so yeah, just my opinion. I think the team looked more like a team in that kind of offense, and i think thats why people feel Hoyer lifted up the team so much. I believe this is more likely the case than those who believe he was in the classroom and some how just uplifting the whole team. We dont have cheerleaders in cleveland, and i dont think hoyer did his best impression of one. i think he was just more efficient and it got the team more involved.
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Seriously... I like Hoyer but it really bothers me when peeps try to say Hoyer was 3-0. No he wasn't. He barely played in that 3rd game and we were losing when he got hurt! It's cheap to try to give him credit for that win. Even if it's technically accurate to say "we won all 3 games that Hoyer started"..... it's just significantly misleading to anyone that doesn't know the truth.
That bothered me too until I was convinced that the reason the team played so well in that 3rd game is because Hoyer was with them all week in practice and had them ready and believing they could win. ...
Saddest thing is, we get all excited about ANY QB who can win two or three games in a row for us.
We need a QB who can routinely win seven or eight games in a row for us and it not be a big deal, just business as usual ... 
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...and the myth of Saint Hoyer keeps being spread
He never came close to being a 60% passer at any level, College or NFL.
He barely threw more TDs than INTs, College or NFL
Sub 6.5 yds/PA the past two seasons
The D gave up 30+ points to Ponder in his first start, but yeah, his "appearance" made them play better
Aren't you the poster who reminds everyone of non factual stuff being posted again and again and again and people start believing it? Because that's exactly what you're doing when it comes to Hoyer. Pit is right, Weeden sucking has more to do with anything Hoyer "flashed". I'd add the timing of Gordon coming back from suspension too and facing banged up DBs. Gordon made Hoyer along with him being smarter and more experienced than Weeden. Hoyer is also more likeable...all lot of off field stuff went into this what now has become an overestimation of his skill level
I can't say I disagree with your assessment. And considering the horrific play we've had at QB for so long, I'm OK with Hoyer until the next great thing comes along. We all know we'll draft a QB this year. Hoyer knows his time is now. Of course he's going to say he's ready to play now. If he isn't then he's as good as gone. We'll just see how it plays out. Either Hoyer keeps the new guy on the bench or he can't.
I'll contribute to building his statue if he wins us a Super Bowl. Until then he's just another player.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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I belieive that if BH stays healthy, a decent coaching staff, a decent defense,and some help from their new aquired fa,s and a little help from the draft we will make the playoffs or come close next year. ....book it dawgs
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I belieive that if BH stays healthy, a decent coaching staff, a decent defense,and some help from their new aquired fa,s and a little help from the draft we will make the playoffs or come close next year. ....book it dawgs
I agree. We underperformed last year as well as got hit by injury.
I think we see a BIG turnaround this season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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For those who believe Hoyer is not the answer...do you believe he will get better as he gains experience?
...and how can we say he is not the answer, based on just 3 starts?
IMO, Hoyer is an unknown...we need to see more before trying to label him, one way or the other.
I know what I saw and I liked it...now show me more.
The problem, IMO, is what we've seen from so many back-ups before. When the opposing D has no game film to break down on a QB, they have a tough time game planning against him.
That's what makes "the three starts" a two edged sword. You can say that is something to build on, or you can say this gives your opponents film with which to game plan against him. More times than not, we've seen the latter happen.
I do like what I saw from Hoyer but I do believe it has been overstated by many. I've simply seen it far too often that a back-up QB comes in and looks good until your opponents get some film on them. They use that film to look at his strong points and weaknesses and then in turn game plan to capitalize on what they've learned.
Maybe that won't be the case with Hoyer. But my experiences indicates that's more likely than not.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I am not sure how anyone can say with any degree of certainty if Hoyer is or isn't the answer.. Right now, I don't know.. I only know one thing, the team looked better with him behind center.. That is all I know for sure.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Hoyer was impressive. More impressive than his stats indicate. The shame of the entire thing is that his body of work is way, way too small. For this reason, we must draft a QB high. I really feel bad for the kid. I root for underdogs and he is certainly that. What a bad freaking break.
I do think he can succeed because of some of the things he displayed last year, but we simply can not count on that to come to fruition.
Oh...........and as far as the number of wins go.............who really cares?
Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, this quote seems very much like a contradiction in terms.
You state that his body of work was too small. That we can't count on some of the things he had shown last year to come to fruition, then ask who cares how many games he won.
To me they're directly connected. Had Hoyer remained healthy and done well, we wouldn't have any of these questions. His body of work wouldn't have been small and he would have won more games.
To me those are all connected.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I am not sure how anyone can say with any degree of certainty if Hoyer is or isn't the answer.. Right now, I don't know.. I only know one thing, the team looked better with him behind center.. That is all I know for sure.
I don't know either. I'm just going from my experiences. Matt Flynn, Kelly Holcomb and the list goes on. So many back-ups have elevated the hopes of fans only to be far less than expected after their opposition gets game film on them.
That's not a prediction on my part. Just a more than likely scenario given the evidence I've seen concerning back up QB's who come in looking impressive to start out.
Hopefully that's not the outcome here. But I certainly don't feel we have the evidence to say one way or the other at this point. It's just a scenario I believe many fans either hadn't thought of or have simply dismissed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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we need a QB hat actually knows the correct way to slide.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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The problem, IMO, is what we've seen from so many back-ups before. When the opposing D has no game film to break down on a QB, they have a tough time game planning against him.
You see that with every QB. Backup or #1 overall pick. The difference is that the good Qb's make adjustments and after a slight dip in production do well again whereas the backup aren't able to adjust to the changes made by defenses.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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PPE ....you fixed absolutely nothing. You just did not read...I said WHY 3-0 without your fix with out any logic. I stated he prepared the game plan throughout the week which after he went down the team was well prepared and rallied.
Why 3-0 a starter...without some 2-0 BS...can you counter my statement logically so I can at least see your point. and please don't do that sorry butt correction thing on a quote unless I made an honest mistake. All that told me was that you skimmed and read the NUMBERS 3-0 without any football took it upon yourself to say I'm wrong without saying I'm wrong. PO'd you did that as PPE  ...as the owner of this board... HEY GREAT JOB 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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At least have the balls to refer that post to me 
I can see if you have a difference of opinion. I explained why I state 3-0 - There is a part of the game called preparation. I use to refer to him as 2.25 - but I have since went back to that game and realized it wasn't WEEDEN who won that game. The team was ready to win. A big credit goes to Hoyer and his preparation and having the team going into the game with the WILL TO WIN...with the BELIEF that they will win. A little credit goes to Thursday National football to keep the life going to.
But the fact also to see how they deflated after the realization kicked in that Hoyer was out for the season. The following week told me a lot of that fight was Hoyer leadership!
It really bothers me Peeps ignore what I wrote and put me down without a discussion or a counter to their position except for the fact that you can count up to 1 quarter. Come on Man!
and before you get PO'd I'm not saying you have to agree with me. But don't put me down and insult my intelligence when I stated why I think what I think - without some counter logic besides he played one quarter and we were behind 7-0.
???
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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PPE ....you fixed absolutely nothing. You just did not read...I said WHY 3-0 without your fix with out any logic. I stated he prepared the game plan throughout the week which after he went down the team was well prepared and rallied.
So no matter who the QB was, the team being prepared was the key? To me that just makes no sense.
Holcomb was 2-0 no matter what the stat sheet said. And if the team was so much more prepared when Hoyer was starting, to me that's more a reflection on the players and coaching staff than anything.
A team prepares every week for the entire week to face their opponent. Nothing new in that revelation.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't see what is to argue Tab. You have some lofty belief that the entire team was simply lofted up on high because a career back-up was starting. That's not something of substance but rather some belief based on personal feelings. Some people simply don't buy that theory, which is exactly what it is, just like some don't buy into evolution. It sounds more like the stories dreams or movies are made of.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I am not sure how anyone can say with any degree of certainty if Hoyer is or isn't the answer.. Right now, I don't know.. I only know one thing, the team looked better with him behind center.. That is all I know for sure.
I don't know either. I'm just going from my experiences. Matt Flynn, Kelly Holcomb and the list goes on. So many back-ups have elevated the hopes of fans only to be far less than expected after their opposition gets game film on them.
That's not a prediction on my part. Just a more than likely scenario given the evidence I've seen concerning back up QB's who come in looking impressive to start out.
Hopefully that's not the outcome here. But I certainly don't feel we have the evidence to say one way or the other at this point. It's just a scenario I believe many fans either hadn't thought of or have simply dismissed.
Comparing him to Kelly Holcomb or Matt Flynn is just like comparing Colt McCoy to Drew Brees...
I understand it as an argument when people would say Colts too short. Height hasn't affected the ability of Brees. So it's a valid argument. The problem with McCoy was he didn't have the arm or the brain of Brees.
Short guys can win a Super Bowl...
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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It is this reason I think he will be the starter going in....regardless of #4 or 26 or 35 pick...Can he be beat out by the rookie? Sure but I doubt it. At least not the first several games. Maybe somewhere down the road and Hoyer is doing shaky results.
jmho
And that's exactly what we shouldn't do. Take a guy at #4 and sit him down for four years never getting anything out of that pick. We aren't good enough to afford that.
If Hoyer is the guy we need to get him some HELP. Not help sitting on the bench year after year, but an on the field player. This notion that it would be great to draft a QB and never let him play seems ludicrous. If we take a QB at #4 they need to do everything in their power to get him on the field ASAP. If Hoyer starts game one that is a big fat FAIL for the staff and every game he's under center is another fail.
Should the Colts have sat Peyton Manning? Andrew Luck? You want a QB to bring along slowly while Hoyer gets his chance, you do so later in the draft. That's for second round QB's. Not top five picks.
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For those who believe Hoyer is not the answer...do you believe he will get better as he gains experience?
...and how can we say he is not the answer, based on just 3 starts?
IMO, Hoyer is an unknown...we need to see more before trying to label him, one way or the other.
I know what I saw and I liked it...now show me more.
The problem, IMO, is what we've seen from so many back-ups before. When the opposing D has no game film to break down on a QB, they have a tough time game planning against him.
That's what makes "the three starts" a two edged sword. You can say that is something to build on, or you can say this gives your opponents film with which to game plan against him. More times than not, we've seen the latter happen.
I do like what I saw from Hoyer but I do believe it has been overstated by many. I've simply seen it far too often that a back-up QB comes in and looks good until your opponents get some film on them. They use that film to look at his strong points and weaknesses and then in turn game plan to capitalize on what they've learned.
Maybe that won't be the case with Hoyer. But my experiences indicates that's more likely than not.
JMHO
Pit...Defenses will adjust to Hoyers game...Hoyer, with the help of the coaching staff, will adjust our offense accordingly. I'm not concerned about opponents game planning for Hoyer.
I view all the negatives being brought up, for what they are...folks playing the what if game or simply relying on our (the fans) past experiences concerning the QB position, since 1999. Concerning the QB position, I believe Browns fans have experienced so many negatives, it's difficult to view any QB in a positive way.
I don't blame any of the fans for feeling the way they do about the future of the team or the QB situation...I'm just a guy who prefers to look at the present situation viewing the glass as half full... rather than half empty. Hoyer's surgery was a success and he worked his butt off rehabbing...and he is ready to go.
I know what I saw from the offense with Hoyer at QB last season...he made everyone on the offense look better when he was QBing. I believe he is capable of being the Browns QB of the future...he appears to have the necessary tools....now it is up to Hoyer to prove it.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Legend
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Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Practice Squad
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Some people simply don't buy that theory, which is exactly what it is, just like some don't buy into evolution.
Im pretty sure you were JK and just attempting to rustle peoples jimmies, but man this is one of my biggest pet peeves in the world because so many people believe it.
People think a SCIENTIFIC THEORY is the same thing as a random supposition heard in their every day life. Like the argument creation should be taught in schools alongside evolution "I think its only fair for students to hear both sides, evolution is after all only a theory."
Its like, holy hell, this isnt the same thing as your "theory of whos been taking your newspaper."
/rant
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2nd String
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lol. Sorry bro, Hoyer doesn't prepare the game plans. I guess I understand the love affair with Hoyer given how bad our QBs have been but I'm sorry, you're not going to tell me that Hoyer somehow played the offensive coordinator role too lol. Hoyer did NOT win that 3rd game. Truth is it doesn't matter though. Either Hoyer will step up and become the guy... or not. While Hoyer certainly has a shot I think many of you guys are setting yourselves up for heartbreak yet again.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hoyer says he'll be ready
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