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The more you type the more you just show that you don't get it.
Weeden didn't prepare the team...that came a week later...and we saw the results then.
I'm saying that the Team practiced all week as if they were going to win and it was a short week. It was a continuation from the Bengal win.
I think Weeden even was quoted as saying that he came in and continued with the game plan set up for Hoyer. There was not much time to sulk after Hoyer left.
That came into effect from every game pretty much on. Again so your point is the NFL is stupid...not your concept. Oh n me I'm stupid to think that Hoyer had anything to do with getting that team that day ready to win. That we would have won it with Weeden there all week...as if we would have won the last two games with Weeden in there. After all it had nothing to do with Hoyer.
I have nothing to add. Enjoyed the one way discussion.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'm sorry but if you're sticking up for Weeden, Brandon has made far more critical mistakes than any other player on this team. Yes, Greg dropped some catchable balls... yes, Davone Bess dropped some catchable balls and I won't disagree with it at all... but how many times was the ball even really catchable? How many times did Weeden throw a floater? How many times did Weeden just not even scan the field to find who was open and etc?
Fact is, when you're inconsistent on both side - then the boat sinks faster. However the biggest driver to the haul of the boat is bad qb play. Good, consistent qb play can get everyone on the same page and all cylinders firing. We've not had that... we've just simply not had that of the dozens and dozens of QBs that have came and gone...
JMO
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All Pro
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Weeden was a bust, period, end of story. Hoyer still has a lot to prove before Pettine names him the starter.
GO BROWNS!
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Quote:
I'm sorry but if you're sticking up for Weeden
What? I don't know how you take that from my comment. I am saying a QBs win loss record is pretty meaningless compared to a pitcher in baseball or a goalie in hockey.
I find it foolish to be debating over a QB about if he had 2 wins or 3 wins. It's a useless number. Wins and losses in football is a team stat or a coach stat. Not a individual player stat.
I hope that doesn't sound like I am sticking up for Tim Couch.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Oh I thought you were directing your comment towards Purple's last comment about Weeden. My bad totally read it wrong 
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The more you type the more you just show that you don't get it.
Actually, this applies to you, not me.
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Weeden didn't prepare the team..
Neither did Hoyer. The coaches did.
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I'm saying that the Team practiced all week as if they were going to win and it was a short week. It was a continuation from the Bengal win.
Ahh, so they practice as if they were going to lose at other times? Dude, you are beyond the point of reaching here.
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Oh n me I'm stupid to think that Hoyer had anything to do with getting that team that day ready to win.
Glad you said it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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There are NO QBs in this draft who are NFL ready...no Andrew Luck or RGIII caliber QBs in this draft. Manziel completed only two seasons in college while Bridgewater and Bortles are juniors coming out early.
I expect the Browns to sign a veteran QB (maybe Grossman) as well as draft a QB, with both competing with Hoyer for the starting job. But after the final pre season game, I would not be surprised if the QB depth chart had the rookie ranked as the #3 QB with the veteran ranked #2 and Hoyer the starter...barring injury.
jmo
Russell Wilson, was he "NFL ready" according to the draft pros?
Look, we DO NOT KNOW what these guys will be able to do. All we can do is project. Why should we categorically say that whoever we draft should sit for a year to "acclimate"? I say NO WAY! You only sit a QB if he isn't ready to play. Go ahead and argue that it is unlikely our drafted QB will be ready to play... fine.. but let's not advocate an approach where we just assume it and then don't even give the rookie a real shot.
IF our drafted rookie is better than Hoyer then he should start. I don't think he needs to be "head and shoulders" better either. Simply, whoever is better (regardless of by how much) should start. The best experience a QB gets is when he plays in REAL games so if he is ready then put him out there.
Some will argue that this could damage the frail emotional state of our rookie QB... if that is truly the case then HE WAS NOT READY and wouldn't have been able to beat out Hoyer in the first place.
The QB should earn his job. Period.
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Yes, one of the biggest pros Wilson had going for him was that he was successful in a WCO in two different college programs.
The ONLY reason he fell as far as he did was because he was short.
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I think Weeden even was quoted as saying that he came in and continued with the game plan set up [by Norv Turner] for Hoyer. There was not much time to sulk after Hoyer left.
Ok, so far so good....
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Oh n me I'm stupid to think that Hoyer had anything to do with getting that team that day ready to win.
... and now the wheels come off. 
Norv Turner set-up the game plan for Hoyer Tab. Hoyer did NOT set-up anything for himself or for the team.
I know what you are struggling trying to say but you aren't saying it very well. You're trying to say that the team simply didn't believe in Weeden and so they just "went through the motions" preparing for the game. They believed in Hoyer though so they practiced hard and really "tried" when he was the QB. While I think the team definitely "checked out" later in the year I completely disagree that they checked out during the first half of the season. Just don't buy it. The team was practicing and playing hard. Simply put... Weeden was terrible while Hoyer was average.
We beat Buffalo, by the way, because they were TERRIBLE. Their QB got hurt just like ours only their backup was worse than Weeden. Tuel was awful and actually threw a pick 6 interception! Our defense was great against the run and Tuel was a terrible QB so Buf couldn't move the ball on us. THAT'S how we won that game. I give the win to our defense more than anything else.
But it's just funny people wanting to give the win to Hoyer. I mean, really!?!? Here are our QB stats for that game:
Hoyer 2/4 for 25 yards
Weeden 13/24 for 197 yards and a TD
But ya, Hoyer won it lol. Weeden was awful as a QB overall but NOT in this game... he did "ok" but some peeps just can't give him anything. Whatever man... whatever.
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So Weeden played 2 good games in his entire career, and you're upset no one giving him credit for that?
...ok...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yes, one of the biggest pros Wilson had going for him was that he was successful in a WCO in two different college programs.
The ONLY reason he fell as far as he did was because he was short.
... and because he was short he'd need time to try to acclimate to the NFL... learn how to find throwing lanes and such. No guarantee he'd even be able to acclimate... hence his fall in the draft. Well, he acclimated pretty fast which was my point.
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No, I'm upset at people trying to give Hoyer credit for a win he didn't actually earn. I'm upset because people are trying to pump up Hoyer to be more than he actually has been for us. He did NOT win 3 games for us. This shouldn't even be debatable which I guess is why it's so upsetting to me. I mean.... COME ONE!
lol
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I would think that the team would be deflated when Hoyer was hurt, more than anything else. Any lift they got from him starting would have been gone at that point. Several posters even spoke of how the team's body language changed when Hoyer was hurt.
I don't see how that win could be attributed to Hoyer, but, in the end, it's a really minor argument. Bottom line is that we only won 4 games last year, and we have a whole new front office and coaching staff this coming year.(and 2 of our QB from last year are gone as well) I se whether we "give" the win to Hoyer or Weeden to be as close to unimportant as is humanly possible.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Translation: There is WAY too much time left before the draft. 
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I'm accepting of the fact that Hoyer may be the starter this year...
But I will say if we grab one of those 3 QBs at 4, they could easily beat him out...
Hoyer played acceptable being thrown in from the #3 spot, logic would tell me if you give him an entire TC with reps with the #1s, he should do better...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I am officially going on the record with a prediction:
If Hoyer gets the starting QB role, he will succeed and be our QB for the next 5 years. Why? Because I believe what I saw in Hoyer was the illusive "IT" factor. Only time and the starts will tell, but I think he has it.
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Man what burr is up your saddle there???
Ahh, so they practice as if they were going to lose at other times?
See here is where you just are Angry Elf or Brownie 
You know that is not what I said. Let me get this straight - and unlike you I'm not going to MAKE up a ridiculous synopsis like you did above. 
Are you saying this game of Parity and built around a lot of emotions The execution of the game plan through preparation had nothing to do with the QB that it was the coaches. That if Weeden started those games or Campbell we would have won. With a straight face you didn't see a different intensity with the team during those games. Never to be seen again.
You never heard of the term COMFORT ZONE or LEVEL.
You never heard of the term the team plays how it practices.
You never hear of the use of the phrase...NOW HE HAS CONFIDENCE. or He played with confidence.
Or how bout this one I'm sure you never heard of. The team is good - "THEY JUST HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO WIN"
So again - I'm telling you the Earth is really Oval not flat.
These are all variables leading up to the game a YOUNG team like the Browns Built on and believed in Hoyer.
I do hope he Starts for us - I am curious on how good he is.
I have never said. HE IS THE GUY, draft another position by QB. I have stated that in my eyes he is a good BRIDGE QB - good enough to start while they develop and ready the Drafted Franchise QB.
Just cause I said he was 3-0 I am this LOVER OF HOYER and all these other choice insults laid upon ONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME OPINION as you...and that is so NOT PPE...I am wondering if you have some latent beef with me or something. If so PM me.
I even explained my evolving consideration on Hoyer in that record.
I always would state. He played 2.25 games for us and we won the last with Weeden finishing up most of the game.
It was after a while and deep thought - you know what - the kid was 3-0 and there has to be more credit to the way the team play and MOST telling the way the team DID NOT PLAY after Hoyer was down for the season. Hey maybe he had more to do with that win that I originally thought.
You and others can have a different opinion...go right ahead but to DEMAND THAT I AM STUPID n the Most blatant Lover of Hoyer and some FANTASY Dreamer and blah blah blah...as your football argument btw.
I've heard the Uh-Uh argument and now the Pee Wee Herman - I know you are but what am I argument.
I've seen you make up stuff like me saying the team practice to lose. That actually might be the most football statement that you have said in your entire argument and we both know you were being sarcastic.
That is pretty much in the realm of the - They got to learn how to win. It starts in practice.
That is why Vers gets so upset when he sees a guy who drags his feet. This team has to learn how to win and it irks him so when he sees this.
Yes we all wish there was a larger data base. No I don't think Hoyer will be 16-0.
I do think he has to have something. Was it just a right place right time thing? Or is it the Homer in him and love for the Browns catches on with the rest of the young players??? They carried Weeden on their backs and played to WIN. Why did they not do that in just ONE of Weeden's starts?
Did you not see them get the life sucked out of them with every ill time INT or Fumble? Well if it can be sucked out...it can be Put in there too. Just one is more visible than the other.
I'm done. If you wish not to contemplate that I am not be just an idiot and trying to actually open a door of at least a thought process. Do what you must.
I'm done.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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What I Saw, when Hoyer was at QB, was an ENTIRE TEAM that believed it could win. It reminded me of the Kardiac Kids days. Now, it is possible that this had nothing to do with Hoyer, it just happened to occur when he was in and ended after he went out.
But, when he was in, we were a better team all across the board. Maybe this can be sustained, maybe it can't. I for one am all for finding out.
It could be something as simple as self-confidence, coupled with a quick release and a few decent skills. That would make him the best QB we've had in over a decade. That may just be good enough, and then again it may not. If it's a choice between an unknown rookie and Hoyer, I take Hoyer all day every day.
As for the rookie winning the "camp battle", BeWe was clearly the best QB, in camp. Real games are a whole nother animal.
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I'm a firm believer that if the team was up when Hoyer was playing, nothing would knock them down more than his injury.
I believe you have totally dismissed the opposition and the QB for Buff. The injury disaster that plagued the Bengals secondary.
There are other factors to consider when you look at things big picture. I believe our D holding our opponent to six points was huge too.
IMO, the picture you're painting is far too simplistic.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The QB should earn his job. Period.
+1
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I hope that doesn't sound like I am sticking up for Tim Couch.
Oh but it does and you are. 
What I took from your comments is that it's a team sport so much more than those others. Like you said about baseball, a pitcher can single-handedly shut down the other teams offense. Or single-handedly allow them to knock the ball all over the house. There is no position in football like that. It takes a team. The win loss shouldn't go to one guy like it can in baseball. In football it's always a team win or loss.
What tabber is saying, and I agree, is that the team was uplifted by Hoyer's play in his two wins and they rode that into practice vs. the Bills. They were on a high and believed they could win. When Hoyer went down you could see the air let out of their tires but they quickly recovered and played well enough to win. Even with Weeden.
The next week with Weeden running practice the team was brought back down to earth. It wasn't the same as when Hoyer was in there. What was the same was the lack of believing they could win with Weeden.
IIRC even the players were publically coaching Weeden to just "trust what he sees" and to throw the ball and let the receivers make a play. They saw how Hoyer did it and wanted Weeden to play the same.
When Campbell was forced into action I think the team perked up simply because it wasn't Weeden. Then Campbell plays great vs. KC. Then he plays well again and we beat the Rats. Then Campbell came back down to his earth, lost his confidence and took the team down with him.
That's my story.
#gmstrong
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I agree with that. I like Hoyer and wouldn't mind if we just went with him if that is what the team decides to do. I just got tired of seeing people bickering over who was credited with a win and seeing 900 word posts that for the most part aren't going to be read by most. This isn't the place to be a blogger. Keep it short and sweet, like you did.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j/c:
I can't believe you guys are still arguing about who won the Buffalo game.
You might want to revisit it and look at what the Special teams did. You might want to look at the turnovers.
Hoyer didn't win that game. Weeden didn't win that game. The Special teams won that game and the defense got a huge pick 6.
Oh, and for those of you quotign 2-4 from Hoyer, did you happen to forget about the perfect pass to Gordon that would have went for an 80 yd. TD if Gordon didn't drop it?
I also see that YTown mentioned how banged up Cinci was against Hoyer. Well, Buffalo was the same way. Did we forget that or are we playing favorites?
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Quote:
Quote:
The QB should earn his job. Period.
+1
Who said otherwise...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Practice Squad
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Hoyer is now apparently the best QB, Head Coach, and Cheerleader we have ever had in cleveland.
"Hoyer prepared the team to win!"
im done with this discussion, things are getting ridiculous...
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Quote:
Quote:
The QB should earn his job. Period.
+1
When was the last time that honestly happened? Has it even since we got back?
Detmer was given the job.
Couch was given it.
Holcomb was given it after the 02 playoff game.
We signed Garcia and gave it to him.
Traded for Dilfer and gave it to him.
Frye took over for Dilfer and we gave it to him.
Romeo flipped a coin and picked Frye, then went to Anderson.
Anderson got the job to start the 08 season and then we moved to Brady.
Brady started the 09 season.
We signed Delhomme in 2010 and gave him the job.
Then gave the job to Colt in 2011.
Then drafted Weeden and gave him the job.
So yeah... We've always had a guy set to be the starter. And never really made him earn it...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Anderson and McCoy earned the job based on their play the previous season. Other than those two, you are right.
Although QB is the one position where if you are the clear cut starter then you usually don't have to worry about job security. Aaron Rodgers isn't going into next season thinking he has to beat out Matt Flynn.
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I agree w/those two, but Holcomb beat Timid out. And I know for a fact that if Butch wouldn't have named him the starter, the players were ready to mutiny. The "gut feeling" thing was Butch protecting Timid. There was never a "gut feeling."
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Quote:
Hoyer is now apparently the best QB, Head Coach, and Cheerleader we have ever had in cleveland.
"Hoyer prepared the team to win!"
im done with this discussion, things are getting ridiculous...
Who said that?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I agree w/those two, but Holcomb beat Timid out.
Based on what, the one playoff game? Couch started 14 games that year to Kellys 3. If Holcomb doesn't throw for 400+ in Pitt does he ever start another NFL game?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Based on the regular season games that he starter the year before and the couple of years of performances in camps.
I really don't care if you believe that story or not, but at the time, I knew two players and one coach. It's not BS.
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Quote:
I agree w/those two, but Holcomb beat Timid out. And I know for a fact that if Butch wouldn't have named him the starter, the players were ready to mutiny. The "gut feeling" thing was Butch protecting Timid. There was never a "gut feeling."
I agree...Holcomb beat out Timid....my coinage . 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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So it's ok to judge Kelly on 4 games, but not Hoyer on 3?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Not sure I am following? I said that the word "mutiny" was used if Kelly wasn't named the starter. That wasn't MY opinion. That was the opinion of the players and coaching staff and Butch had no choice. It was NOT a gut feeling. That is what I said.
Now, you can say that I am making that up. I get why you would not believe my story. No problem. I am just putting it out there for those who know me and especially for those who knew me at the time, as in regards as to how I reported things way before the media ever did.
Oh, and I haven't had any inside information for years.
I know one guy who does, though. It's GM. He doesn't divulge a lot and that is smart, but when he speaks of the Brown's plans, you should probably listen.
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I'm not saying you're BSing. I've just never heard that before. And the idea that Coaches and players were all for Kelly after 4-5 games seems weird to me.
But thats just me. I never preferred either guy, as Holcomb was a career backup, and Couch was ruined by that time...
I'm all for hypotheticals, Browns fans live their lives on them. But that's one of those ones that's probably best left alone...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Again, I can understand why people will think that is BS. That's fine w/me. I get it.
I should have ignored that one post. I was just adding to it and didn't really think about he consequences.
Just remember, it was more than games. Practices were huge. One guy goofed off. The other did not.
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Jc
What else would Hoyer say? Don't all injured players say they will be ready to play?
I feel kind of meh on him. He did some good things, sure. But seems he is fragile. He got injured running/falling out of bounds. Nobody even touched him.
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Just clicking
Keep one thing in mind, if Tim Couch doesn't play as well as he did for the season, we don't even make the Playoffs. He's the reason we got there. Well, at least he was one of them.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,137
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,137 |
I can't frickin' believe it's 2014 and people are still discussing Couch vs. Holcomb. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
[Hoyer] got injured running/falling out of bounds. Nobody even touched him.
Huh?
That is neither running/falling out of bounds nor not getting touched.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hoyer says he'll be ready
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