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That's a matter of perspective.
If you're one of the big trading houses, or something with millions/billions to invest... things are certainly slanted in your favor.
If you are a do-it-yourself day trader... you are definitely fighting an uphill battle.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yes. The Fed pumping money into the stock market is setting us up for a huge downfall. They can't keep up the pumping forever, and when it stops, we are most likely to see another huge crash. The stock market is currently being falsely inflated with phony money.
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Much of our economy right now if built on phony money.
GM was "rescued", and "made good" because they got to dump every debt and poorly operating facility. had the government give the unions a huge chunk of cash to take over the pension fund, and then lost $10 billion on the stock sell off that got the government out of GM.
Every business could be "saved" and "made profitable" under those terms and conditions.
We dumped billions into the housing market to try and stabilize it ...... dumped billions into the market .... we artificially deflate interest rates so that the regular guy can't save his way to wealth in his old age .......
This country is really screwed. I am really curious to see what's going to happen when the bottom falls out ...... because when it does, it's going to fall hard.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I guess I haven't followed it closely enough. The UAW DID take over the pension and health care from GM?
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All Pro
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Technology has advanced well beyond the existing statutes that regulate trading. New laws will have to be passed to make the playing field even.
GO BROWNS!
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Quote:
'Is the U.S. stock market rigged?' This story was the first story on 60 Minutes Sunday night (3/30/2014).
Quite an impressive scam of sorts, methinks. Definitely worth watching.
Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/is-the-us-stock-market-rigged/
I watched it last night, along with the story about Elon Musk. I've noticed that almost every time I fill an order that it comes back at different prices - normally only pennies - but this story does help explain that. These are not large lots I am buying/selling - typically 100-200 max shares.
I am more concerned about the phony money being dumped into it though - that is where the crash is going to come from.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I guess I haven't followed it closely enough. The UAW DID take over the pension and health care from GM?
Yeah, it was healthcare that the union took over. I don't know why I thought pension. Thanks for the correction. I need then sometimes with my brain in the shape it's in.  
GM's pension obligations still exceed the value of the new company.At the end of 2011, it was a $20 million shortfall.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/us-autos-gm-pensions-idUSBRE98Q16520130927
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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'Is the U.S. stock market rigged?
Wait you mean there are people out there who think it isn't rigged
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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GM's pension obligations still exceed the value of the new company.At the end of 2011, it was a $20 million shortfall.
You're only 1/1000th correct on this. They're pension obligations exceed the company market value by $20 billion.
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Quote:
Quote:
I guess I haven't followed it closely enough. The UAW DID take over the pension and health care from GM?
Yeah, it was healthcare that the union took over. I don't know why I thought pension. Thanks for the correction. I need then sometimes with my brain in the shape it's in.
GM's pension obligations still exceed the value of the new company.At the end of 2011, it was a $20 million shortfall.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/us-autos-gm-pensions-idUSBRE98Q16520130927
But yeah, lets keep blaming the union workers. lets keep blaming the people make 50-60,000 a year while it is truly the incompetent management who keeps running a crappy company. I guess GMs newest debacle of failing to recall faulty cars that is going to cost them billions in lawsuits is the workers on the floors fault.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
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I guess I haven't followed it closely enough. The UAW DID take over the pension and health care from GM?
Yeah, it was healthcare that the union took over. I don't know why I thought pension. Thanks for the correction. I need then sometimes with my brain in the shape it's in.
GM's pension obligations still exceed the value of the new company.At the end of 2011, it was a $20 million shortfall.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/us-autos-gm-pensions-idUSBRE98Q16520130927
But yeah, lets keep blaming the union workers. lets keep blaming the people make 50-60,000 a year while it is truly the incompetent management who keeps running a crappy company. I guess GMs newest debacle of failing to recall faulty cars that is going to cost them billions in lawsuits is the workers on the floors fault.
KING
There is no way that the union can be absolved from their role in driving the expenses that have crippled American auto manufacturers, and forced 2 of them (so far) into bankruptcy. Unions have helped American workers, but they have also helped destroy American businesses. If it weren't for the US government starting with what .... a $50 or $60 billion infusion of cash ... and an illegal process screwed the previous shareholders out of any of the company's settlement of its debts, in favor of paying off the union.
Unions have had, and still do have a role to play in worker safety and protection. However, they have driven wages and benefits up past the point of reason, and past the ability of business to carry.
Right now GM has every possible advantage. They have been handed an additional $10 billion that they will never pay back to the taxpayers. We'll see how they handle this prosperity. The first thing GM did was give out huge bonuses to their workers, while taxpayer paid the bill. We;ll see what happens as the taxpayer's role in funding the company (hopefully) ends.
One of, if not the single biggest expense at the auto manufacturers is legacy costs. That expense if the result of the company and union working together to bankrupt these companies, and they both need to take responsibility for fixing the problem. The union cannot claim to be blameless in this mess, any more than inept management can.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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You cannot blame Unions for the fact that GM does not have good car designs.
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You cannot blame Unions for the fact that GM does not have good car designs.
Nope. That part is on GM's management.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You cannot blame Unions for the fact that GM does not have good car designs.
When you can't invest any money into R&D because you have to pay an average factory worker $30 an hour ... then yeah, you can blame the unions.
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How so? Either GM management didn't forecast correctly on their income to accept $30/hr or they are terrible negotiators. I don't see where it's the unions fault if GM management is shown to be incompetent.
#gmstrong
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How so? Either GM management didn't forecast correctly on their income to accept $30/hr or they are terrible negotiators. I don't see where it's the unions fault if GM management is shown to be incompetent.
It goes a little deeper than that, really, but the $30 an hour - while it didn't HELP GM, it didn't hurt them as much as the legacy costs did, and do.
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How so? Either GM management didn't forecast correctly on their income to accept $30/hr or they are terrible negotiators. I don't see where it's the unions fault if GM management is shown to be incompetent.
You seriously think GM management wanted to pay them $30 an hour??
The problem is when unions get greedy and treat their workers like hostages. They demand any ransom they want out of a company, because they know the only alternative is close shop and produce nothing.
Sure the company can afford it in the short term, but the legacy costs become crippling quickly and rarely do these big unions agree to timely paycuts when the company needs to reign in spending.
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Whether you think I'm serious or not the bottom line is GM signed on the dotted line with the union. It has been demonstrated that the union has better negotiators than GM had for a long time.
Shoot, Michigan is a right to work state, GM could just have their employees relinquish their union badges or they can strike permanently. It's even easier in their other plants like in Arlington TX. Ohio would be a tougher state since it's probable the union says you must be union to work at the Ohio plants. But if GM was smarter they'd start shutting down plants and moving them into more business friendly states over time; then the next time you negotiate you play hardball. Either way, a group of C suite executives worth their salt would have been able to put a plan in motion to bring the balance of power back. The schmucks at GM for the last two decades do not fit this criteria.
No one put a gun to the CEO of GM's head when they signed off on the pay rates and if anything their lack of foresight and resignation to the status quo is a big reason they are in trouble. The unions only fault is grabbing as much as they can for their workers.
#gmstrong
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Whether you think I'm serious or not the bottom line is GM signed on the dotted line with the union. It has been demonstrated that the union has better negotiators than GM had for a long time.
Shoot, Michigan is a right to work state, GM could just have their employees relinquish their union badges or they can strike permanently. It's even easier in their other plants like in Arlington TX. Ohio would be a tougher state since it's probable the union says you must be union to work at the Ohio plants. But if GM was smarter they'd start shutting down plants and moving them into more business friendly states over time; then the next time you negotiate you play hardball. Either way, a group of C suite executives worth their salt would have been able to put a plan in motion to bring the balance of power back. The schmucks at GM for the last two decades do not fit this criteria.
No one put a gun to the CEO of GM's head when they signed off on the pay rates and if anything their lack of foresight and resignation to the status quo is a big reason they are in trouble. The unions only fault is grabbing as much as they can for their workers.
You say that, like it's easy to just shut down a plant overnight and open it somewhere else ... which by the way, many companies have been doing slowly overtime and the unions and employees have been crying about it non-stop.
You're talking about a billion dollars of infrastructure, property and employees that you can't just uproot right away. The unions realized they had GM by the airbags and held a gun to their employee's heads. Whether GM felt they needed to have a loyalty to the area they started in or were just reluctant to bite the bullet and pay a bunch of upfront costs to completely relocate and HOPE they can recoup the cost later ... it's not like they had much of a choice.
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Whether you think I'm serious or not the bottom line is GM signed on the dotted line with the union. It has been demonstrated that the union has better negotiators than GM had for a long time.
Shoot, Michigan is a right to work state, GM could just have their employees relinquish their union badges or they can strike permanently. It's even easier in their other plants like in Arlington TX. Ohio would be a tougher state since it's probable the union says you must be union to work at the Ohio plants. But if GM was smarter they'd start shutting down plants and moving them into more business friendly states over time; then the next time you negotiate you play hardball. Either way, a group of C suite executives worth their salt would have been able to put a plan in motion to bring the balance of power back. The schmucks at GM for the last two decades do not fit this criteria.
No one put a gun to the CEO of GM's head when they signed off on the pay rates and if anything their lack of foresight and resignation to the status quo is a big reason they are in trouble. The unions only fault is grabbing as much as they can for their workers.
Interesting.
So, when things were going great for gm (and the other companies), and they rewarded the employees - that's gm's fault. But, when things got tough, gm wasn't allowed to do anything about it, and that's gm's fault as well?
I think you've just made the point that companies should play hardball with employees - and you don't even realize you made that point.
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You say that, like it's easy to just shut down a plant overnight and open it somewhere else ... which by the way, many companies have been doing slowly overtime and the unions and employees have been crying about it non-stop.
You're talking about a billion dollars of infrastructure, property and employees that you can't just uproot right away. The unions realized they had GM by the airbags and held a gun to their employee's heads. Whether GM felt they needed to have a loyalty to the area they started in or were just reluctant to bite the bullet and pay a bunch of upfront costs to completely relocate and HOPE they can recoup the cost later ... it's not like they had much of a choice.
Oh absolutely. Many foreign car companies have plants in North Carolina or other parts of the south like BMW, Honda, Toyota, etc. They didn't want to deal with the UAW so they picked their factory locations accordingly 
If GM mortgaged their future for area loyalty then they are dumber than I thought. But I agree with your second opinion, that being inaction. It's far easier to do nothing than to stick to your position and fight it out. This inaction led GM down the slow but inevitable road to bailout-ville.
#gmstrong
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If GM mortgaged their future for area loyalty then they are dumber than I thought. But I agree with your second opinion, that being inaction. It's far easier to do nothing than to stick to your position and fight it out. This inaction led GM down the slow but inevitable road to bailout-ville.
I agree with you there ... they should have been left to fail. Union heads are just as dumb and greedy though. Is it really smart and a "victory" for trying to negotiate a deal that's either going to cause a company to pack up shop and leave you or inevitably bleed it dry? I mean I was back in Cleveland last year, driving around the old manufacturing areas and I could see all kinds of "great union negotiation" on display.
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Interesting.
So, when things were going great for gm (and the other companies), and they rewarded the employees - that's gm's fault. But, when things got tough, gm wasn't allowed to do anything about it, and that's gm's fault as well?
I think you've just made the point that companies should play hardball with employees - and you don't even realize you made that point.
If GM wants to reward their employees that is something to be celebrated, but that's not what happened. Really GM mortgaged the future for the convenience of now. But GM bending over for the UAW is just one of many examples of ineptitude they demonstrated from the 1980s up to the bailout. If GM signed a dumb contract then it's their fault, not the UAW for being "sneaky" or "opportunistic." I don't think it was GM being taken advantage of so much as GM's hubris of thinking they are so big that nothing would take them out.
I did make the point that companies should play hardball with employees, especially unionized ones. Since collective bargaining affects your entire workforce failing to bargain correctly with a union can be very damaging. For most businesses human resources take the most cost. Cost is the enemy of Profit. Businesses that don't value their cash flow fail. GM should have failed but the government propped them up.
#gmstrong
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If you hand-pick companies and hold them... the "rigging" impact will be much, much, smaller.
In terms of collapse, I don't know where "The Market" is headed. but I don't see a fundamental reason for collapse with any of the companies I hold. Panic is still the most likely reason for a "collapse." But that usually ends with the panic crowd kicking themselves, not the people that stay the course.
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...usually ends with the panic crowd kicking themselves, not the people that stay the course.
Yup 
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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Quote:
I agree with you there ... they should have been left to fail. Union heads are just as dumb and greedy though. Is it really smart and a "victory" for trying to negotiate a deal that's either going to cause a company to pack up shop and leave you or inevitably bleed it dry? I mean I was back in Cleveland last year, driving around the old manufacturing areas and I could see all kinds of "great union negotiation" on display.
The union being greedy didn't help matters but it wasn't the only catalyst of failure. I know unions are love/hate but they are a business just like GM. Their business makes money by collecting dues from the worker in exchange for collective bargaining support. Yes it was dumb of the UAW to be so greedy but it was even dumber for GM to put ink to paper on the deal. GM made so many dumb decisions I'm surprised they lasted until 2008...
As you alluded to, the dumbest party in the game was the US Government sending taxpayer money to "sort out" this cluster.
Last edited by gage; 04/01/14 03:47 PM.
#gmstrong
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jc
GM lost $51 billion in 3 years. Plus, Ford survived without a bailout. You can only put so much on their obligations to unions.
Then there's GMAC. Their failing finance company got $16.3 Billion in Bailouts. On top of that, they had sold 51% of GMAC in 2006 to Cerebrus. The company that agreed to buy Chrysler in 2007! Then imagine, at the bailout hearing that Cerebrus had "cash flow problems."
GMAC had a huge role in both GM and Chrysler's failings. Can't put that on the union, and you can't ask union workers to pay for those losses.
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How so? Either GM management didn't forecast correctly on their income to accept $30/hr or they are terrible negotiators. I don't see where it's the unions fault if GM management is shown to be incompetent.
It goes a little deeper than that, really, but the $30 an hour - while it didn't HELP GM, it didn't hurt them as much as the legacy costs did, and do.
You are correct on that, that hourly wage is a drop in the bucket. I don't have the energy to to look up all the numbers, but someone claimed if all GM floor employees should take a $5 per hour pay cut. We did some numbers and it was a tiny drop in the overall bucket. The problems are legacy costs. Those legacy costs are just as much the fault of inept management as it the unions. I have worked at plenty of union places that there was a nice balance. The union and the company worked together for a common good, and all benefited. We didnt get everything we wanted, and either did they. If management was inept(as GMs is) the union would have been able to run all over them.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Quote:
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I guess I haven't followed it closely enough. The UAW DID take over the pension and health care from GM?
Yeah, it was healthcare that the union took over. I don't know why I thought pension. Thanks for the correction. I need then sometimes with my brain in the shape it's in.
GM's pension obligations still exceed the value of the new company.At the end of 2011, it was a $20 million shortfall.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/us-autos-gm-pensions-idUSBRE98Q16520130927
But yeah, lets keep blaming the union workers. lets keep blaming the people make 50-60,000 a year while it is truly the incompetent management who keeps running a crappy company. I guess GMs newest debacle of failing to recall faulty cars that is going to cost them billions in lawsuits is the workers on the floors fault.
KING
There is no way that the union can be absolved from their role in driving the expenses that have crippled American auto manufacturers, and forced 2 of them (so far) into bankruptcy. Unions have helped American workers, but they have also helped destroy American businesses. If it weren't for the US government starting with what .... a $50 or $60 billion infusion of cash ... and an illegal process screwed the previous shareholders out of any of the company's settlement of its debts, in favor of paying off the union.
Unions have had, and still do have a role to play in worker safety and protection. However, they have driven wages and benefits up past the point of reason, and past the ability of business to carry.
Right now GM has every possible advantage. They have been handed an additional $10 billion that they will never pay back to the taxpayers. We'll see how they handle this prosperity. The first thing GM did was give out huge bonuses to their workers, while taxpayer paid the bill. We;ll see what happens as the taxpayer's role in funding the company (hopefully) ends.
One of, if not the single biggest expense at the auto manufacturers is legacy costs. That expense if the result of the company and union working together to bankrupt these companies, and they both need to take responsibility for fixing the problem. The union cannot claim to be blameless in this mess, any more than inept management can.
You and I are in agreement. I wasn't one or the other, but I feel like inept management was what allowed the situation to occur.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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NY Attorney General Issues Subpoenas To High-Speed Trading Firms ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — An official familiar with the investigation said the New York Attorney General's Office has issued subpoenas to six firms and sent a letter to another for details about split-second stock trading and any unfair advantages. The official told The Associated Press Wednesday that the subpoenas went last week to trading firms including Chicago-based Jump Trading LLC and Chopper Trading LLC and Tower Research Capital in New York. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to publicly discuss the subpoenas. He said he did not know the names of the other companies. Jump Trading, Chopper Trading and Tower Research did not immediately respond to requests for comment. Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has said advantages in computer hardware and placement enable some traders to get millisecond timing advances to make "rapid and often risk-free trades before the rest of the market can catch up." His office, with authority to investigate securities fraud under New York's Martin Act, is seeking details about trading strategies and special arrangements with trading venues including exchanges and so-called "dark pools" for buying and selling securities. At a New York Law School symposium last month, Schneiderman discussed some concerns. "Rather than curbing the worst threats posed by high-frequency traders, our markets are becoming too focused on catering to them," he said. According to the attorney general's office, advantages include extra computer network bandwidth, ultra-fast connection cables and special high-speed switches to computer servers. Some traders are allowed to place their computer servers within trading venues. The millisecond timing advantages let those traders make "rapid and often risk-free trades before the rest of the market can catch up." The attorney general last year reached an agreement for Thomson Reuters to stop selling to high-frequency traders a two-second peek at some market-influencing consumer survey results, followed by agreements in February for several financial firms to stop cooperating with analyst surveys that favored some elite clients. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/16/subpoena-high-speed-trading_n_5162451.html
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Hey, if CBS says its rigged it is after all its those rich greedy repubs that are to blame,guess they gotta find someway to keep the libs in power Quote:
'Is the U.S. stock market rigged?' This story was the first story on 60 Minutes Sunday night (3/30/2014).
Quite an impressive scam of sorts, methinks. Definitely worth watching.
Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/is-the-us-stock-market-rigged/
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~ Legend
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Are you posting just to troll?
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Dawg Talker
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No brother just keeping it real thats all, its their agenda imo, after all the dems are the party of the poor ,or that what they want you to believe.
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~ Legend
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No one said anything about Republican or Democrat until you posted about it. No one is surprised that democrats are rich and so are Republicans. All the same corporate puppet.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518 |
Oh,please bro you actually think that wasnt a politically bias headline? Ill put it like this CBS knows when wall street greed comes up the low info voters [that they are playing like a fiddle] automatically think white,christian repubs ,but at least you get the fact that both groups are guilty of greed and thats why I always respect your opinions even when I disagree with you at times .
Last edited by Riley01; 04/19/14 10:43 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Oh,please bro you actually think that wasnt a politically bias headline?
I don't.
Quote:
Ill put it like this CBS knows when wall street greed comes up the low info voters [that they are playing like a fiddle] automatically think white,christian repubs
I'd bet if you asked 100 people to put a name or a face to Wall Street greed, over 75% would cite Bernie Madoff, a Jewish Democrat.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Quote:
Oh,please bro you actually think that wasnt a politically bias headline? Ill put it like this CBS knows when wall street greed comes up the low info voters [that they are playing like a fiddle] automatically think white,christian repubs
I saw the same headline on FOX News. FOX is going after white, Christian, Repubs. Playing their audience like a fiddle.
http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/03/31/us-stock-market-rigged
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518 |
Well i guess you two proved that there is no lib bias by all the major networks and FOX is the only unfair news outlet,but if you read my whole post , that both dem and repubs were complicit in greed.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
but if you read my whole post , that both dem and repubs were complicit in greed.
That's all well and good, but I don't see how that bolsters your claim that "Is the U.S. stock market rigged?' is a politically charged headline biased against Republicans.
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