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Part of the reason I think they should abolish the one-and-done rule and make them choose either entering the draft straight from high school or playing three years of college ball.
I really think it's a joke that a kid can't enter from high school. I can understand the NFL, because of the brutality of the game. Grown men vs young men still growing, I get that.
I don't think it's beneficial to a young kid's game to enter right away, but I think he should have the right to do that.
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People say LeBron had no benefit going to college. Physically I agree.
But I've always wondered about the mental side of it.
The Decision happened because he wanted to be "courted" by teams. That would of happened.
And then say his team is in the tournament. And in the 4th quarter he starts going 2010 Boston style? I feel like being part of a team, and hopefully learning to listen to a HC would of helped him in the long run.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Back to Cavaliers news. Anderson Varejao is in Atlanta, but will he play for Cleveland Cavaliers tonight? | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/04/anderson_varejao_is_in_atlanta.htmlATLANTA -- Anderson Varejao walked down the hall toward the Cavaliers locker room at Philips Arena here on Friday morning, at least one step closer to returning from the sprained right AC joint he suffered on Sunday against Indiana. He missed Wednesday's game at Orlando, but it's possible he could play in tonight's key game against the Hawks. He's officially listed as questionable, and his status likely won't be determined until game time. "We don't know if he'll be able to play or not,'' Cavs coach Mike Brown said before the team's shootaround. But, the coach admitted, having Varejao rejoin the team here was a good sign. "It's always good anytime somebody gets hurt to see them around having the possibility of playing,'' Brown said. "It gives everybody a little more confidence and juice.'' Cavs at Hawks Probable starters: Cavs -- F Luol Deng, F Tristan Thompson, C Spencer Hawes, G Dion Waiters, G Kyrie Irving. Hawks -- F DeMarre Carroll, F Paul Millsap, C Pero Antic, G Kyle Korver G Jeff Teague. Injuries: Cavs -- Anderson Varejao (sprained right AC joint) is questionable. C.J. Miles (left ankle sprain) and Carrick Felix (left patellar stress fracture are out. Anthony Bennett is excused for personal reasons. Hawks -- Al Horford (right pectoral muscle surgery), Gustavo Ayon (right shoulder surgery) and John Jenkins (lower back surgery) are out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Cavs: The Blog Interview with Brian Windhorst that is very interesting to read, especially on Kyrie. Good stuff.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Good stuff. I agree with him about hawes and tristian. Dont overpay them. Didnt know lebron didnt like kyrie that much. Huge summer for gilbert this year. If he whiffs on gm, and players, were screwed.
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Quote:
People say LeBron had no benefit going to college. Physically I agree.
But I've always wondered about the mental side of it.
The Decision happened because he wanted to be "courted" by teams. That would of happened.
And then say his team is in the tournament. And in the 4th quarter he starts going 2010 Boston style? I feel like being part of a team, and hopefully learning to listen to a HC would of helped him in the long run.
I know Michael Jordan credited a lot of his growth to Dean Smith.. Lebron had to learn the hard way... He took his lumps, it's just that unfortunately he took them the entire time with us.
I have a good feeling for Kevin Durant this year. I think the taste of a bad finals 2 years ago, combined with the disappointment of last year, and I think this time around we're going to see one hell of an effort. I really hope we get Spurs/Thunder at some point. What a great series that would be.
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If I overpay for a player at this point, it's Hawes. He fits, and you can't teach 7' and athletic.
I am almost thinking that trading Kyrie might be a good idea, but it would have to be for comparable talent back. It can't be for a draft pick.
I dunno. Gilbert has a lot of difficult decisions coming up, and his biggest, at GM/President/whatever is the biggest.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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the series I most want to see in the playoffs:
East:
Bulls v. Pacers
Pacers v. Heat
Raptors v. Wizards - see which young team is ready for the next step
West (besides just saying ANY series):
Spurs v. Grizzlies - please, pretty please
Blazers v. Rockets
W's v. Thunder
Spurs v. Thunder
Finals
Pacers v. Spurs - w/ Pops/Duncan getting one for the thumb.
#gmstrong
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Depends how much hawes wants. If he wants a favors type deal, not sure i would give that much. Depending if they sign kyrie, dion, and a max player, not sure if the money would be there. I do agree about kyrie. I would want a young all star player. Would be pointless to go through the growing pains of another young player.
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I am almost thinking that trading Kyrie might be a good idea, but it would have to be for comparable talent back. It can't be for a draft pick.
I think it can be a draft pick if it's this year's #1... (on the flip side, who would trade the top pick for a smallish point guard who's always hurt and has yet to play in the playoffs?)
Other than that, you probably aren't getting equal value in return. It's almost impossible. Anyone who wants Irving, wants him because they are going to pair him with other good players. You aren't going to do star for star...
That article with the interview with Windy is interesting... He seems to be flip flopping on a lot of stuff. Said forever that LBJ was opting out this summer. Now he has said that possibly he could do this for another year...
Now Kyrie and Lebron have drifted apart? I don't understand that. I think those two have mutual respect for each other, but I really don't think they're that close of buddies to the point of where they could drift apart...
I can't see how LBJ doesn't opt out. That gives him all the power. It may actually force Miami's hand, and make them improve, instead of sitting on their hands with the big 3...
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I can't see how LBJ doesn't opt out.
it all depends on how he and his people see this offseason compared to next offseason. he can pick and choose when he wants to test the waters dependent on what other situations are out there.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
I can't see how LBJ doesn't opt out.
it all depends on how he and his people see this offseason compared to next offseason. he can pick and choose when he wants to test the waters dependent on what other situations are out there.
What happens if the Heat don't win the title this year, and Lebron feels like he's being left out to dry with Ray Allen and Battier past their prime, Wade hobbling around, and the team not getting younger?
Whereas, Lebron opts out, becomes a free agent, and Miami has to retool some things...
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If I'm the Heat, I tell Bosh and LeBron and Wade to opt out, go into FA and sign a bunch of good players, then resign the 3 of them with their Bird Rights...
Things NBA2k have taught me...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I can't see how LBJ doesn't opt out.
it all depends on how he and his people see this offseason compared to next offseason. he can pick and choose when he wants to test the waters dependent on what other situations are out there.
What happens if the Heat don't win the title this year, and Lebron feels like he's being left out to dry with Ray Allen and Battier past their prime, Wade hobbling around, and the team not getting younger?
Whereas, Lebron opts out, becomes a free agent, and Miami has to retool some things...
I can see that. I also can see them either winning or almost winning the title and LeBron giving them one more year if he likes the landscape of potential teams next summer better.
#gmstrong
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Does the luxury tax apply to Bird rights contracts?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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As far as I know, Luxary tax is based on your teams salaries, regardless of what kind they are?
By the way, Miami only has like 4-5 million currently on the books for next season...
Assuming they have the Big 3s Birds (don't know why they wouldn't) how do you not tell them to decline their options, then go into FA, sign either ANOTHER max player, or multiple key pieces, and then resign the Big 3...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
If I'm the Heat, I tell Bosh and LeBron and Wade to opt out, go into FA and sign a bunch of good players, then resign the 3 of them with their Bird Rights...
Things NBA2k have taught me...
It doesn't work like that. If you want to dip into Free Agency, you have to first renounce the Bird Rights on anyone eligible for it (basically releasing them into free agency) and then sign new Free Agents only up to your cap limit. Once, that's done, you can't go back and sign your old Free Agents.
Bird Rights are only meant for giving your existing players a max/big deal, and not having to worry about going over the cap to keep them. You can't use it to get around the cap and sign a bunch of free agents.
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2k14 Disagree with you  
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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As far as I know, Luxary tax is based on your teams salaries, regardless of what kind they are?
Luxary tax is only the penalty for going over the cap, but there are still plenty of rules in place that prevent you from going over the cap.
For the most part, you can't sign free agents if you're already over the cap. The main exceptions are:
1) You can sign a "Bird Rights" player to a max contract BEFORE you enter free agency, even if you are already over the cap.
2) There is a mid-level exception, and some sort of bi-annual exception that allows you to sign a player for whatever the mid-level exception value is. Something like $5-$6 million. So you usually can't get a great player for that value, but you could theoretically do it every year.
3) You can sign a Vet to the vet's minimum without having to worry about going over the cap.
4) Draft pick exceptions. You can sign your draft pick to their slotted value without having to worry about going over.
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2k14 Disagree with you
I'll submit a bug report to 2k sports then.
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I think the key to them would be somehow convincing Wade to take a lower deal.
That was the hole problem with them teaming up. If it was to work, they can't all be max contract guys. Because then that's all you have.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Looks like "Bad Cavs" showed up tonight ... so much for the playoffs.  Quote:
I think the key to them would be somehow convincing Wade to take a lower deal.
That was the hole problem with them teaming up. If it was to work, they can't all be max contract guys. Because then that's all you have.
Even if Wade were to take the Vet minimum, they would only get about 9 million in cap room. You aren't getting anyone that great for that much, and no way would Wade pass up a PLAYER option for $20 mil to make vet min.
You're right about the salaries though ... each of those big 3 are making $20 million each, so that's their entire cap. They've only got 8 guys on the roster for next year, so other than a mid-level exception and some late draft picks, they aren't going to be able to restock much.
My guess is all three players will keep their player option. It pays them the most money. There's a very slim chance that Lebron or maybe Bosh could force a sign-and-trade, by threatening not to pick up the player option. They could risk a huge pay-cut if they did that ... because Miami doesn't HAVE to sign-and-trade, and Lebron would be back to signing a significantly less max-deal with another team as a free agent. It might be in Miami's best interest to do the sign and trade though as it would give them some much needed cap flexibility, plus they would get assets back rather than nothing.
I'm not even sure that a team would be willing to sign-and-trade for Bosh at a max deal, and I really don't think Bosh wants to leave anyway. Double-so for Wade. He's almost certainly staying with Miami.
Lebron is the wild card though. He can pretty much dictate where he wants to play, and it's in Miami's best interest to re-sign him at Bird Rights salary level, and then trade him for some expirings and assets back. It's still all on Lebron though. If he wants to stay, he'll stay ... and I think that's probably the most likely option.
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nrtu This is why you don't make promises you can't keep. Where are the playoffs? Heck, where is our championship? This is also why you don't go trading future picks when you're team is 11-23... possibly as a panicked move due to making promises you can't keep. This is why you cannot build a contending team when your best player is a me-first point guard who doesn't play defense. This is why you don't pass on centers 3 straight years when you need one. At least we got a unique 7 footer who can hit open 3s. That's a nice piece (no sarcasm)... now how about a guy who can dominate and defend the post and get rebounds? But hey, at least the Cavs are 31-45 in the East... that's exciting right? All they really had to do was play the young core. Let them figure out how to win themselves and give them time to develop. So we win 10 less games and are likely to get a top 3 pick in a loaded draft..... what was wrong with that plan??? 
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well I'm glad that season's over with...I really hope but know it won't happen. But Brown needs replaced or most of his staff does..Horrible game plan..For mike brown being this defensive guru, he still can't figure out how to defend teams that shoot the 3.. Waiters or Irving need traded...bottom line they can't coexist. To be this bad year after year...getting old.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Who were Hawes and Deng taking playing time from? Bennett was starting to get more time, but got injured. Did you really want to see Alonzo Gee, or Tyler Zeller? We gave up 2nd rd picks for them players, no big deal if you ask me.
This team doesn't need more young rookies, it needs proven all star talent that could help them win now. We have enough young talent in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins isn't going to make us a championship team in 3 years anyhow. Guy scored 4 pts against Stanford in an elimination game. They still will own a top 10 pick, plus they have enormous cap space, and enough assets to make plenty of moves. Gilbert just has to make the right moves.
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Not surprising that when Andy and Kyrie are back we start losing again.
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Quote:
Who were Hawes and Deng taking playing time from? Bennett was starting to get more time, but got injured. Did you really want to see Alonzo Gee, or Tyler Zeller? We gave up 2nd rd picks for them players, no big deal if you ask me.
This team doesn't need more young rookies, it needs proven all star talent that could help them win now. We have enough young talent in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins isn't going to make us a championship team in 3 years anyhow. Guy scored 4 pts against Stanford in an elimination game. They still will own a top 10 pick, plus they have enormous cap space, and enough assets to make plenty of moves. Gilbert just has to make the right moves.
Of course this team needs all-star talent. And Deng was elected to an all-star game, but he is not all-star talent lol.... not from what I've seen. Not even close. He's just a guy out there. Maybe Chicago knew exactly what they were doing when they wouldn't go above 3 years/$30m or whatever. Here's the funny part... he was just a 1 year rental in a hopeless season. And he's probably less likely to re-sign here now than he would have if he were a free agent.
So where do the Cavs get all-star talent? The majority of all-stars in this league are drafted in the top 5. And there is basically no chance that an all-star in his prime is going to sign in Cleveland. If you can come up with some past examples that disprove that, I'm all ears. So you either draft all-stars or you swing a trade and hope like heck that the re-sign here.
Of course now we're drafting 10th or so and carelessly shipped out a bunch of the assets we had acquired over the last few years. It's funny how it was such a big deal when we had that "war chest", but during the trades they were 'just' second rounders. Well second rounders get things done in the modern day NBA, as evidenced by those trades themselves. They were just the wrong trades at the wrong time. They jumped the gun as a desperation play so they could make the playoffs and get swept in the first round.
I know it gets old with me harping on this same old thing over and over again but I'm telling you, this team as constructed is never going to go anywhere and will probably have to be torn down again some years down the road to have any realistic chance of contending. We're looking at mediocrity treadmill at best.
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We still have quite enough trade pieces...
One of them being Kyrie...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I hate JR Smith. Dude is chucking 3's up at an insane rate. Good thing is that his shots are falling down, but damn I'd be pissed if I was Melo.
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Time to play "Let's Freak Out the Cavs Fans!":
Player A through his first three years - 17.9 PPG, 8.4 APG, .417 FG%, .333 3PT%, 17.4 PER, horrible defense.
Player B through his first three years - 20.9 PPG, 5.9 APG, .449 FG%, .383 3PT%, 21.0 PER, horrible defense
Player C first three years as a starter - 15.2 PPG, 5.4 APG, .459 FG%, .307 3PT%, 18.6 PER, horrible defense.
Player A - Stephon Marbury
Player B - Kyrie Irving
Player C - Devin Harris
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Josh Gordon vs Dion + Kyrie
Awesome, just fanfreakingtastic
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We've had 4 top 5 draft picks in the last 3 years. So far we have one all star, and a potential all star in Waiters. I don't think Tristan will ever be one, and Bennett didn't even play much, so the verdict is still out on him. They probably will have to make a decision on kyrie/dion. I don't have a lot of faith they could play together. Irving is only 21, so there is room for improvement, but if he doesn't want to sign the max deal, you have to deal him. I would be ok even if he signed a 3 yr extension with a player option. It would be hard to get a great deal, if teams knew he wanted out. But if he signs, it's imperative they get a player that could be the first option. Kyrie needs to be the 2nd option, and be more of a point guard.
I have no idea what happened to Deng. I think he's a good player, he just hasn't fit in. He came from Chicago where they played team basketball, and it might have been easier for him to get better shots. Too many times he's been given the ball asking him to beat guys off the dribble. He's more of a spot up shooter. I would still be open to him signing a short term deal, but I highly doubt he takes. He will probably go to LA. Lakers.
There should be no reason why the Cavs can't get a good player in the top 10, but I believe Gilbert will try use that pick to get a max player. There have been plenty of great players selected in that range.Dirk, Paul Pierce, DeRozan, Drummond, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard. I'm sure there are others I missed.
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Kyrie isn't willing to be the 2nd option, and isn't worthy of a max deal.
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Seems as if the Cavs win more when Kyrie is out with injury. Seems as if Duke won more when Kyrie was out with injury. I don't have exact numbers but I remember thinking that when he was at Duke.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
Kyrie isn't willing to be the 2nd option, and isn't worthy of a max deal.
I'm coming around on this as well. We're 3 years in, and as fans, we have nothing. No playoffs, no late season run.
I don't know if writers are just making things up about Kyrie, or at least stretching the truth, in terms of his future, but as we've learned, where there is smoke, there's fire.
I like Dion Waiters. I think he's tough. I think he still has a very long way to go in his development, but I like his attitude. But if you're going to tell me that he's our best player 4 years removed from the decision, wow. That is a horrible job from the top on down.
I would trade Kyrie only because I think his stock is still very high right now. If there was a top 3 pick up for grabs, I would trade for that pick. Hopefully newer management goes the route of more physical players with a better work ethic.... Guys built for the playoffs, not all-star games.
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It cant be much of a surprise that we havnt accomplished much. Waiters and irving are 21 yr old kids. these guys could still be in college. Kevin love is a good player, and he still hasnt sniffed the playoffs. Waiters and irving was just a horrible idea. Both have game, just have no idea how to play team ball consistently. This team desperately needs a veteran guy to take over, or a dominant head coach.
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Unless you could get a haul for him, you have to offer a max deal. He will get one regardless. You cant just give him away. Just have to hope he learns to play with others better.
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Quote:
It cant be much of a surprise that we havnt accomplished much. Waiters and irving are 21 yr old kids. these guys could still be in college. Kevin love is a good player, and he still hasnt sniffed the playoffs. Waiters and irving was just a horrible idea. Both have game, just have no idea how to play team ball consistently. This team desperately needs a veteran guy to take over, or a dominant head coach.
You're right about all that. I just expected a little more, especially with the Cavs being in the eastern conference.
Man do I miss having playoff basketball. That infamous Cavs/Celtics series seems like ages ago.
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Unless you could get a haul for him, you have to offer a max deal. He will get one regardless. You cant just give him away. Just have to hope he learns to play with others better.
I agree that you have to get something, but there's absolutely no sense in handicapping the team by giving him a ton of money on a max deal. Three years into his career, he's immature, he's not a leader, he's regressed as a player and the team plays better without him. He will likely never be successful in Cleveland but we can't worry about what he'll do somewhere else because he's not going to do that here. I don't want to handcuff this team for another five years hoping that he stops being a petulant kid and blossoms into a team player.
Like somebody said shortly after the All-Star Game…plenty of accolades, zero accomplishments.
Much like I wanted to unload Andy after his first injury-riddled season post-Lebron, I think it's imperative that the Cavs move him while other teams still see some upside. Eventually teams will recognize that he's a tremendous talent but does not have the mentality of a winner, and that's when his value will really tank. The NBA is filled with guys who have tons of talent, but talent is just one part of the equation.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
I could agree with that. Will be interesting to see what they do.
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