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Just thinkin out loud here...
Since he has been here, we have not had a single good OL. We dont get good push, and our guards have looked pretty bad. Perhaps, he is a lynchpin in the badness that we've had? We dont get good push on run blocking, and when teams blitz us and make hay...its always coming in the interior. I agree our guards havent been great, and have been oft injured...but, might it be Mack's line calls? might it be that we arent that stout in the center?
That being said...he's better suited for the ZBO that Shanny will run...but food for thought there...
If he wants to leave...okay. We had a pretty good OL with Faine and with Fraley...We had one tough year in there when Bentley went down and Hallen retired...but again, Fraley shored that up pretty well...Then we got Mack and things have been rocky. I know he is durable and tough...but, idk.
I'm not saying...I'm just saying.
Let him go and lets get another one...John Greco has played center in the past, and so has McQuistan...and theres a whole draft's worth of Centers that will cost less and could quite possibly give us better production.
I also really like the idea of the match n trade. Even if its for something like a 3rd or 4th...
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I get it. They are stupid because they saw the same things I did. 
No, you don't get it again. My point was that you made no coherent argument either way and contradicted yourself in the same post. Topping it off with some whiny victim "m against the world" attitude to round out the patheticness of it all
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so i just read that the jags will make him a a offer neither team can afford....then when we dont match it....they will restructure it the day after......they found the loop hole.....should have used the franchise tag http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...heet-by-friday/
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If Mack really wants to play in J-ville and he calls the Browns and begs them not to match, what do we do? I mean if he really does not want to be here do we just let him go or do we match and hope he does not become a cancer?
Then you tell Jacksonville that we'll drop the tag for a 1st round draft pick. that ought to sour the deal in a hurry..
As for him being a cancer if he is forced to play here,, BOO frickin HOO.., We will have just agreed to pay him millions of dollars, invested correctly, when he leaves the game in 4+ years, he's be set for life, Isn't it a shame what we're forcing on him.. LOL
Anyway, Mack doesn't strike me as a cry baby or any kinda cancer in the locker room kinda guy. I think that's worrying about things with no foundation.
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Mack is just fine staying in Cleveland. Geez I don't believe I even need to say that. He is looking to max his income for him and his family's future. None of us can blame him for this as we would do the same thing. This is his chance to squeeze as much money out of the NFL as he can and he is smart enough to be doing that. I was not a big Mack fan when we drafted him because of personal reasons. I knew that ment the end of Hank and his family in Cleveland, and damnit you just cant find better people than that, not just on a football level but on a personal level. Great people, great family all the way around. But Alex is a great guy as well, and for his sake I hope he gets some great offers, but for our sake I hope this is the top offer he gets so we can match it and keep him in Cleveland.
+1
He's using the system to get the most amount of money as possible. This isn't about wanting to play in Jacksonville over Cleveland, this is about getting cash. All the more power to him. NFL teams have been cutting players left and right for years, it's good to see a player have leverage every once in a while.
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Whatever you say. But, in the end.....................Ward is gone and the FO didn't try to sign him, yet they are doing everything in their power to keep Mack.
Who is whining, Dj?
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....they will restructure it the day after......
That would be highly unethical. Time to get the NFL Head Office involved should it come down to that... 
Last edited by bbrowns32; 04/09/14 08:30 PM.
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Sure. lets pay our center 10 million a year. Just don't complain when we have money troubles later. If center is the most important position on the field then he's worth a lot more than a measly ten mill per. But we've had him for a while now and I don't recall him winning a ton of games for us..... With Thomas and Mack we should be the greatest team in the league.... and yet....
What would be funny is the Browns matching that stupid contract and then Mack really sucking in our new blocking scheme.
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I disagree.
Our line was one of the best in the league two years ago. Warhop is an excellent coach. Chud brought in his own guy. Norv's offense was slower. More pressure, but they still did a pretty good job despite the injuries.
Mack wasn't the problem. Teams did not make hay by rushing us up the middle. Rarely did guys break free. Our calls were excellent.
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Report: Alex Mack agrees to terms on offer sheet with Jaguars
So it seemingly begins...
When it's "reduced to writing" the clock starts ticking. I can't imagine any deal the Browns wouldn't match.
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Damanshot
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Why would it be funny? Don't you want us to win?
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Exactly, the same FO that you deem incompetent. You still don't get it do you?  As for Ward alone, it's still no argument since there was a FO who valued him very much and they happen to be a contender. Now what? Does this make Elway stupid and Farmer smart? It's not an argument for anything
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I don't deem them incompetent. Unlike agenda guys like you, I judge each move independently.
I have liked some of their moves, questioned others, and disliked a few.
I prefer that line of thinking to your line of thinking, which is .........hating or loving every move because I either attack or love this particular FO.
Ward is gone. We didn't want him. You were wrong...........again. Deal w/it.
We want to sign Mack. We valued him more than Whiff.............errr..........Ward. Deal w/that.
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Mack is just fine staying in Cleveland. Geez I don't believe I even need to say that. He is looking to max his income for him and his family's future. None of us can blame him for this as we would do the same thing. This is his chance to squeeze as much money out of the NFL as he can and he is smart enough to be doing that. I was not a big Mack fan when we drafted him because of personal reasons. I knew that ment the end of Hank and his family in Cleveland, and damnit you just cant find better people than that, not just on a football level but on a personal level. Great people, great family all the way around. But Alex is a great guy as well, and for his sake I hope he gets some great offers, but for our sake I hope this is the top offer he gets so we can match it and keep him in Cleveland.
+1
He's using the system to get the most amount of money as possible. This isn't about wanting to play in Jacksonville over Cleveland, this is about getting cash. All the more power to him. NFL teams have been cutting players left and right for years, it's good to see a player have leverage every once in a while.
Sure, it's awesome. I hope he eats up every last cent of our salary cap. We can go 5-11 every year and have the best damned center in the NFL. Oh wait, he's NOT the best center. But he sure will be PAID like it.
If they really did craft a contract that pays him 10 mill a year for five years then Farmer should take all of about 2 seconds to bid him a fond farewell and start looking at centers in the upcoming draft. NO center is worth that. Even if he was the best in the league. Which he isn't. That's medium range quarterback money. That's left tackle money. It sure as hell isn't center money.
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Who is whining, Dj?
No one, games don't start till August...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah I can't read apparently...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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No biggie..................it's all BS anyway. 
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I don't deem them incompetent. Unlike agenda guys like you, I judge each move independently.
I have liked some of their moves, questioned others, and disliked a few.
I prefer that line of thinking to your line of thinking, which is .........hating or loving every move because I either attack or love this particular FO.
Ward is gone. We didn't want him. You were wrong...........again. Deal w/it.
We want to sign Mack. We valued him more than Whiff.............errr..........Ward. Deal w/that.
One of those guys on fox sports 1 made a joke about Ward lighting up Gordon in the probowl and the other guy said jokingly and thats why the Browns didnt offer him a contract. I know he was joking but I had forgot about that but it doesnt make you think.
As for Mack, draft a center in the 3rd and call it a day. he is average at best anyway.
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So... Why didn't we just Franchise tag him?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Why would it be funny? Don't you want us to win?
It would be funny because so many not only want us to pay a center 10 million a year, they state "more power to him" like it won't drastically cut in to our ability to sign others....
Do I want us to win? Of course. Do I think paying a center 10 million a year will aid in that? Not hardly. How many games has Mack won us the last couple years? Is he a good center? Yes. Is he a Hall of FAME center? Not even close. He's not even the best center in the league. Top five maybe. Maybe. Top ten certainly. Yet he's about to be paid a LOT more than any other center EVER.
I'm really hoping our new front office can stick around a while and make a go of it. Paying Mack that kind of loot isn't a good way to accomplish that IMO. But we shall see. Maybe he is worth ten milly. Maybe he'll excel in our new scheme and Tate will score 20 TD's this year..... running right behind Mack.... but I doubt it. Peace
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....they will restructure it the day after......
That would be highly unethical. Time to get the NFL Head Office involved should it come down to that...
perhaps.....but this is business....and im sure unethical things happen daily in the business world. As far as the nfl goes...i doubt they help us...in fact i have a feeling they will point their finger right at us and say"well, you were dumb enough to use the transition tag instead of the franchise tag, so its your own fault."
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Mack is not average. Sheesh.
He is one of the best---if not the best---centers in the league. There is a reason we are working so hard to keep him.
As far as Ward goes..............nothing to do w/tackling Gordon. It had more to do w/game tape and game plans. He is a liability in coverage, which leads to our ILBers having to cover guys they should not. He also whiffs way too much. I also think he is as dumb as the day is long and that he was one of the primary reasons our defense was so mentally weak.
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j/c
I wonder, should we decide not to match, how that would impact our "big board" in reassessing priorities...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Again wrong. I simply disagree with the value or lack thereof they put on Ward and said so many times. I think it was a mistake, especially long term as Whitner won't be worth his contract for more than 2 seasons and then we have a need there again. The fact that you judge it as "right and wrong" tells the whole story of who the agenda poster on this is. You make a pissing match between me and you out of it because I happen to disagree with our decision makers and you do agree with them for once. Problem is: it has nothing to do with us and no right or wrong has been proven so far since no down has been played yet....and you want an apology on top of that? You're truly the king of your modest brain, aren't you? lol Since when has "who the Browns want" become the new AllPro voting? Both Mack and Ward were ProBowlers and I think Ward was an AllPro too, which carries more weight anyway...and that's AFTER games played. Guess we have to wait for your "apology" that you were "wrong" about Ward/Gipson?
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As for Mack, draft a center in the 3rd and call it a day. he is average at best anyway.
I wouldn't go THAT far man. He's a quality center and I wish we could keep him. He's top ten for sure. But no center is worth 10 million(IF that is the crazy number the Jags actually offered him and not some BS a scribe pulled out of his ass). If the number is more reasonable then I have no problem with them matching.... But for ten million? That's insane in the membrane....
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Again... Whitner is only a year older than Ward... So by your logic, Ward will be done in 3 seasons...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
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....they will restructure it the day after......
That would be highly unethical. Time to get the NFL Head Office involved should it come down to that...
perhaps.....but this is business....and im sure unethical things happen daily in the business world. As far as the nfl goes...i doubt they help us...in fact i have a feeling they will point their finger right at us and say"well, you were dumb enough to use the transition tag instead of the franchise tag, so its your own fault."
More like it's the NFL's fault for a stupid franchise scale. ALL linemen are counted as the same. Stupid would be franchising a center for over 11 million a year which is based off left tackle money not the value of a center.
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It's 17 months to be exactly, but that's not the point. Wear and tear is, I thought that was clear enough, but here's confirmation. I'd be excited if Whitner even has 2 more above AVG seasons after just having signed his retirement contract with us. We bought high on Whitner after he had a career season in a contract year. Ward has improved every season and just eneterd his peak. Totally different career settings. Ward has one more good contract to play for, Whitner just signed his last significant one. Huge difference in monetary motivation too.
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I think the difference is... I don't think Ward will ever be as good as Whitner is now...
That's obviously my opinion... But that's how I feel...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You could be right, but remember that Whitner was considered a bust by some in Buffalo at the same experience level in the league and that he had a much more up and down development than Ward, who gradually got better with every season, which speaks for his consistency and that he's about to peak. Whitner was total garbage in coverage until last season, he admitted that himself. It sure makes me wonder why suddenly the light came on in his contract season....expect regression. Ward was still going up. I expect 2014 to be more or less on the same level again and then go in ward's favor from 2015 on. I think it was a mistake
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Whit was not considered a bust.
I lobbied that we should sign him as a FA when he was available. The Heckert crew defended that stupid move. Brilliant.
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I watched the games. Ward was continually out of position. He was a huge liability in coverage. He whiffed on too many tackles. Stat boys like you did not see it. I did. The Browns did, as well. Apparently, the rest of the NFL did, too...........because TJ Whiff did not get nearly as much money as his agent was hoping for. He was actually acting like Whiff was an elite player.
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When you're getting 5-6mil a year, you ARE valued in this league, especially as a SS. You won't find more than a handful of SS that make that kind of money.
A bunch of NFL people and analysts watched the games too, not just you. And they happened to vote him into the AllPro Team and gave him all kinds of accolades. Those aren't stat boys, those are considered experts. A couple could be wrong I guess, but are they all stupid then?
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If he has a 5-year deal with Jax, I let him leave and laugh at him on his way out. I don't even counter an offer.
Not sure if I am understanding you correctly but there is no counter offer. If he signs a contract with Jacksonville, we either match that contract and he plays for us under that contract or we decline to match and he plays for them under that contract.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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For those talking about a wink-wink deal to renegotiate, I am pretty sure that the NFL would call shenanigans on something like that.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Just clicking...
I am reading on some websites how if we don't match we'll have egg on our face. I don't see how that makes any sense. The Jags will be just a stupid as anything we could have done here because they are breaking the bank for a center. So, in my opinion, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of another. Can't be both ways there...
Now, on to the real crux of this, how do we justify paying Mack the money when we have some key FA coming up in the next few years? Haden, Taylor, Gordon and Cameron all have a higher priority than a guy we can find a replacement for in this particular draft. Chewing up that money for Mack makes no sense to me, even if it is front loaded. He's a great center, but certainly not worth that percentage of our cap. I say let the London Jaguars take him.
Finally, on a personal level this sucks. I had the priveledge of talking with Mack a few years back (during the Shurmur tenure) and he's a cerebral guy, and he talked about how awesome it was playing in front of Cleveland fans. He seemed genuinely impressed by our dedication and love for the team. It's hard for me to reconcile that conversation with a guy who has been silent through all of this and allowing his agent to paint it as him wanting to get out of dodge. If that is truly how he feels, I can't say or do anything, obviously, but it still is garbage. As much as I used to respect him, I have no respect for how he has let his agent make it appear that he's so sick of Cleveland and wants out as bad as it appears.
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J/C...
This team has stunk with him - I'm convinced they can't stink worse without him.
If you moan about losing and whatnot in Cleveland then sign with Jacksonville, you're a loser. Check ya later, enjoy your cash and the weather.
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J/C
After thinking about this more, I think they let him find the best deal, which was a courtesy to him. I look at it as a sign of respect for the player.
Sort of, you want this much for long term, and we think it is too much. So, we will let you have the choice of finding the deal you want and we match it, or we give you a big pay day this year so you can decide if the new system is in your liking.
I can't see how Mack is losing in any way. And I truly believe that it is the agent that is putting words in his mouth.
Look, Mack has been here, and is fully aware of the fanbase and how it reacts to players. That is why I feel it is not him with the "I want out" attitude, but more the agent working other teams to see if he can get a bidding war going..
Continuity on an Oline is needed. Having major pieces together for years is how you build a great line. I hope he signs and we match, and we keep two very good pieces on the Oline for a few more years.
I have to laugh at those poo pooing having a top five player at a position. We have waited years for talent, now many think you can replace it in a whim. Those folks need to look at teams with good Olines. Most have years playing together. Breaking up an Oline is just as damaging as changing the scheme every couple years.
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