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No, but he was the agent that got Elway traded.
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He's a laughable joke. Let the jackass go to Jacksonville
Laughable joke?
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This is true, but there are certain things that you don't do in business. You don't publicly state how you really don't like your employer and then talk with other possible employers to set your pay rate.
Ok, I guess I missed the part where he said he doesn't like the Browns.. When did he do that?
He was interviewed and said that he wanted to go to a winning team and one that was stable where there wasn't so much turnover in the coaching staff every year.
He's a laughable joke. Let the jackass go to Jacksonville.
Ok, I missed where he said any of that,, can you help a fellow dawg out and point me in the direction of those quotes? thanks in advance..
Yes, I would like to see his Quotes as well...The only negative I have heard from Mack is his opinion that Chud was doing a good job and he was expressed surprise that he was let go...
Exact quote:
"Because it's speculation I'm not going to answer,” Mack said about five hours before the franchise formally announced the dismissal of their first-year coach.
"I think he did a good job,” Mack said of Chudzinski, whose team finished 4-12 and on a seven-game losing streak. “(The final total of) wins and losses weren’t what we wanted. In terms of who he brought in and the attitude of the team, I believe we have a very positive group here. I believe in Chud.
“There is something to be said about continuity and having the same guy there. You need to build upon a system. We have a good offense. Our defense is doing good things. I believe if we build upon that after this season, good things will happen.”
"I would be surprised (by a firing), but you’ve got to brace yourself for anything to happen,” he said. “He’s my third coach in four years. He’s a good coach and a great guy and I think he’s done a good job.”
None of that screams at me that he wanted to go to another franchise...If he did, I would like to see it..
Do you want another ACTUAL quote from Mack?
"My time in Cleveland was interesting to say the least,” Mack told USA TODAY Sports. “It was never boring. But there is no guarantee anywhere you go. It’s not a given what happens in Cleveland now or for any other team.
“I like where my future is going. Mr. Haslam, he’s a really good owner. I got a really good feeling about him. He’s a direct person who knows what he wants to do. There’s something to be said of that. It’s now a clean slate.”
The Browns met with Mack over the weekend. Along with Haslam, Farmer and Pettine, offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and offensive line coach Andy Moeller were in attendance.
“That was a cool meeting,” Mack said. “I got to sit down with the new offensive coordinator and line coach. They discussed their scheme, where we’re going and the plans for offense. That went really well. I think they liked what they heard from me or they wouldn’t have tagged me. It was fun to talk to them. Now, we just go from there. It’s nice to possibly play in a system that fits your skill set and sets you up for success. That’s what I got from that meeting.”
THOSE are words from Alex Mack's mouth, not national talking heads writing/saying what he is thinking...
Ok, now show me the QUOTES that you are referring to...
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Alex Mack agreed to terms on an offer sheet with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but that doesn't mean he'll be changing addresses. Once the center signs the offer sheet, the Cleveland Browns figure to match the five-year deal "in no time at all," ESPN reported Thursday morning. The idea the Browns will match is not new. A report last week stated the team would match an offer "in a second" and owner Jimmy Haslam hinted as much earlier this week. The only pause in the discussion came Wednesday amid reports that Mack really wanted out of Cleveland. NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reported that the Browns told Mack when slapping him with the transition tag that they wouldn't hold him hostage if he wanted to leave. One big reveal in the ordeal will be the details of the offer sheet Mack is poised to sign. ProFootballTalk reported the deal would pay out "roughly $18 million to $20 million" guaranteed in the first two seasons. Given that number, it would be a no-brainer for the Browns to match -- they'd be getting him cheaper than if they paid the transition and franchise tag the next two seasons. The report also added an interesting nugget: The offer sheet includes a clause allowing the player to void the deal after two seasons. If true, that is a big indicator Mack's camp believes the Browns will match the offer. The player wants the power to test free agency again in short order if new Browns coach Mike Pettine's regime ends as swiftly as all others have during Mack's time in Cleveland. We could be staring at a rerun of the "Alex Mack Football Saga" in 2016. Can't wait. web page
Joe Thomas #73
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j/c
I think Mack is a very good center...I'd like to have him back.
However, didn't the Steelers go thru (3) or more Centers last year? Did their OL look and worse with any of the (3). I think I remember one of the backups looking pretty darn good...might even have been the 3rd guy.
Didn't the Chargers backup C maul the Bengals in last year's playoff game?
I want him back if he wants to be here...but it seems as if he does not. I know he isn't saying those words, but he has convinced Jax to jump thru a lot of hoops for maybe nothing. That makes me think he wants out. Maybe it's just him going after the $$$.
It would be weird if it weren't happening to us.
different teams, different situations and different players involved. you can't compare this to any other team.
He's not convinced Jax to do anything. His agents have with the full knowledge that there is probably nothing they can do to stop the Browns from Matching.
This two year thing is not an issue. He'll stay if the Browns are winning and the Coaching staff stays intact.
Let me ask anyone this question. You get drafted by a team that has a rather poor recent history. You go in the first round, they pay you enough to turn you into a millionare. All is good so far right .
But then the team still continues to lose, coaching changes run rampant and now you find yourself to be at the end of your rookie deal.
You do:
a. Buy into what the Browns tell you about stability and honesty and such in hopes that this time, it will be true
or
b. Test the waters to see what your worth to other teams and then let the Browns match the offer.
I take B every single time.
Mack has done his job. So well in fact that he was rewarded with a Pro Bowl. he's a guy that causes NO PROBLEMS. He's a clean and decent human being. Never beats on anyone, doesn't make crazy statements in the press.
What changed? NOTHING. he's just running it like a business. He knows and so do all players, that when the team doesn't want you anymore, they don't hesitate to cut you loose. There isn't much loyalty either way anymore.
So what the hell is wrong with him exercising his options? NOTHING.
The Browns have been a circus for years. All he wants to know is, does it stop being a circus now, or is it going to continue?
That's fair IMO
I don't care about what we have to pay him. I bet that if you look at this 2 or 3 years down the line, you will find that top Centers are getting that much money if not more on a routine basis. Not that they are any better, but the salaries keep increasing.. It's just natural.
Oh, and the CAP increases so it all balances out.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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jc
I went to the Jags board to see if they had any new perspective or any rumors, but man, they're really butt rustled about the Browns. Going over there you would think it was us that will be moving their team.
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Cleveland Browns new front office made its first real mistake with handling of Alex Mack: Terry Pluto Quote:
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Until the final details of Alex Mack's contract with Jacksonville are public, I'm not sure if the Browns should match the offer.
But this much we do know: The handling of the center's contract situation is the first real mistake of the new Browns front office.
Once they failed to sign Mack after visiting him in California with a front office/coaching group led by Owner Jimmy Haslam, troubled loomed.
I don't know all the details of the offer made by the Browns, but it was lucrative -- and Mack rejected it.
At this point, the obvious choices were:
A: Allow Mack to become a free agent and probably leave.
B: Tag him as a "franchise player," meaning he'd earn $11.6 million. But no other team could sign Mack unless they also gave the Browns two first-round picks.
Even if you absolutely love centers, no one trades a pair of first rounders for the right to make Alex Mack the NFL's highest-paid center.
But the Browns made a third choice, and it will cost them dearly -- regardless of what they decide about matching Mack's deal.
They employed the seldom used "transition tag."
That meant they could keep Mack for about $10.1 million -- but he still could sign an offer with another team.
But worse for the Browns -- there is no penalty regarding draft picks attached.
Poor choice
On the surface, it appeared the Browns tried to save about $1.5 million on Mack -- gambling that no team would do exactly what Jacksonville has done.
If the Browns match, they can insist they knew they'd keep Mack.
But if you're the Browns, you don't want Jacksonville or any other team negotiating the contract terms for one of your players.
Early reports of the deal have it at more than $45 million for five years.
But the real issue is about $22 million guaranteed.
Supposedly about $18 million in the first two years are guaranteed -- and Mack can opt out after the 2015 season. So he can take most of the guaranteed cash and become a free agent after 2015.
Not good for the Browns.
None of this would have happened had the Browns simply made Mack a franchise player.
Remember, the Browns had about $30 million in salary cap room when they decided between the franchise/transition tag for Mack.
And no matter what the Browns say if they do match Mack's offer, they'd never have given him this type of contract with a two-year out clause.
Now what?
Yes, the Browns have salary cap room to keep Mack.
If they match the offer, their two highest-paid players would be Joe Thomas ($11.6 million) and whatever Mack receives in the first year (at least $10 million).
That's lot of cash for two offensive linemen. Thomas is a future Hall of Famer.
It's clear Mack wants out of town, as I wrote earlier in the week when he began talking to Jacksonville.
The Browns want to extend Joe Haden's contract. They also may soon want to do the same for Josh Gordon, Phil Taylor, Jordan Cameron and others.
And they want to keep some room on the cap to sign free agents in the next few years.
Yes, they can cut Ahtyba Rubin, who has $6.6 million in the final year of his contract. Haslam has implied he'll match any offer for Mack, but is that wise?
But the Browns do have a problem with Mack's contract offer -- one they could easily have avoided.
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Spin it Terry... 
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I completely disagree with Pluto.... The Browns played it well. They couldn't reach a deal with Mack so they let another team do it for them..If Mack signs that deal he's assured of becoming the highest paid center for a while. Until someone elses contract comes up.
Now we have 2 years and roughly 24 picks to find his replacement (10 picks this year and roughly 7 each of the next two years).
If in that time the Browns turn it around and Pettine shows to be able to stick, then he might look at it differently.
By the way, I've not seen a quote by Mack where he says he doesn't like the browns and wants out...I've read there is one out there, but I can't find it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Two things:
1.) If the Browns don't match, they did poorly. But I think they will.
2.) If the Browns do match, then whether they did well or not depends on weather the contract they sign him to is more or less than the best offer they'd gotten from Mack's agent before the tag deadline. We don't know the answer to that.
~Lyuokdea
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He's not convinced Jax to do anything. His agents have with the full knowledge that there is probably nothing they can do to stop the Browns from Matching.
My point is that JAX will invest a lot of resources into putting together a contract - essentially - so Farmar does not have to do the work.
I think Mack has convinced JAX that he'd like to be there...hence they are doing the work yet at the risk that the Browns will simply match.
I'm not implying that it's sinister or anything like that. I find it telling that Mack really wants to leave..JMO
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I'm not implying that it's sinister or anything like that. I find it telling that Mack really wants to leave..JMO
So what would you have thought if Mack hadn't tried to work a long term deal with any team? That he wanted to leave as quickly as possible under a one year tag?
It seems to me with Mack knowing the ground rules, his job, for his best interest, was to negotiate the best deal possible for himself and his family, knowing the Browns would most likely match the offer.
He wanted a long term deal. He got one. And in doing so, knew the Browns would probably match the offer. That's what the guidelines of the transition tag set out as an option.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Match the offer, then trade him to Jax.
Why? You take a $20 mil cap hit this season (the fully guaranteed salary) and get what in return? Let him sign with Jax outright and retire a wealthy man in 5 years.
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Guess it is just an issue of semantics. I view a counter offer as us saying that contract that you signed is okay but consider this instead (which is not an option) and you are considering a counter offer as we will offer you the same thing. I don't like your use because to me it implies that Mack then has a choice as to which he takes. But he doesn't.
Potay-to/Potah-to
Fair enough point and you're right, it's little more than a semantic difference. 
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Mack wasn't just a rookie, he was a First Round selection. Perhaps the best center to come out of that draft. Are you suggesting we spend a 1st round pick on a center? or are you saying we can get one in later rounds that's as good as Mack?
I'm not suggesting that we use a first round selection on a center, but I certainly would also say that we can get a quality center in this draft without much (if any) drop off in performance. We would also free up a more than $9 mil this season to sign future free agents now so that they don't become free agents next year or the year after.
Do I want Alex Mack at the expense of losing Joe Haden, Jordan Cameron, Josh Gordon, or Phil Taylor, et al? Actually, I don't think that I do.
I've already said that it was the wrong thing to tag him with the transition tag, not for the reason that he can sign elsewhere but because I don't think he's worth the amount of money that he would earn under the tag.
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As for if we won more games with him at center, are you saying he's the reason we haven't won?
I'm not saying that he's the reason that we lost those games, but I'm saying that he isn't a difference maker whose performance won us any games.
Let's assume he is the best center in the league, he has been the center on a team that have had 5-11, 5-11, 4-12, 5-11, 4-12 win-loss records. So, to me, it appears that he's not making ANY difference at all. Let him go to Jacksonville and maybe he can help them win 4 or 5 games a year.
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Two things:
1.) If the Browns don't match, they did poorly. But I think they will.
2.) If the Browns do match, then whether they did well or not depends on weather the contract they sign him to is more or less than the best offer they'd gotten from Mack's agent before the tag deadline. We don't know the answer to that.
If the Browns don't match, then I'll agree that they should have done it differently. Hind Sight is always 20/20 vision
Assuming they match (and I agree with you, they will) then it's a good deal no matter what.
They got their Center for at least 2 more years and that gives them a chance to back fill the spot somewhere down the road. In the meantime, they have a Pro Bowl Center,.
Again , I don't care about money. Two years from now, we may find that some other center is getting 11 million a year then Mack at 9 mill will look like a Steal.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You don't know that Mack didn't offer them essentially the same deal (or possibly a better one, as a sort of hometown discount) - and that the Browns rejected it.
Maybe Mack's agent offered 5yr - $45M (8.5M/yr in the first three years) and the Browns turned it down?
If that happened, then it's a bad move. We don't, and won't, know if that's true though.
~Lyuokdea
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This is true, but there are certain things that you don't do in business. You don't publicly state how you really don't like your employer and then talk with other possible employers to set your pay rate.
Ok, I guess I missed the part where he said he doesn't like the Browns.. When did he do that?
He was interviewed and said that he wanted to go to a winning team and one that was stable where there wasn't so much turnover in the coaching staff every year.
He's a laughable joke. Let the jackass go to Jacksonville.
Ok, I missed where he said any of that,, can you help a fellow dawg out and point me in the direction of those quotes? thanks in advance..
I know I've read it somewhere but now (with all the clutter about Mack) it seems to have been lost in the interwebs inner workings. I'm not going to spend a month trying to dig them out.
Also, his agent has said some very nasty things about the Browns and Mack didn't correct the statements. Anything his agent says that goes uncorrected is as good as if it came out of Mack's own mouth.
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My point is that JAX will invest a lot of resources into putting together a contract -
Like what? What will the invest in this. Review the contract Macks agents give them, tweak it and sign it.
Not a big investment of anything but dollars really.
It does make it easy for Farmer, but the only thing that make these contracts hard is arriving at the number and terms. After that, it's typing and signing. And by the way, getting to the number and terms is nothing more than a couple of guys sitting in a room or on the phone, hashing it out.
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I think Mack has convinced JAX that he'd like to be there...hence they are doing the work yet at the risk that the Browns will simply match.
Of course his agents did and he did as well (I need to concede that point) but in the end, if he wanted to get a deal done somewhere, anywhere, ultimately, he and his agents need to convince the teams that he is interested.
How come only ONE team came up with an offer?
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I'm not implying that it's sinister or anything like that. I find it telling that Mack really wants to leave..JMO
Oh I know you aren't thinking anything sinister is going on. It's just business and nothing more.
As for him wanting to leave, I've asked now several times for a quote where HE says he doesn't like the Browns and wants to leave.
Until I see that, I'll chalk it up to speculation by reporters and fans.. I really did take a few minutes to look and honestly, I can't find a quote by him or his agent saying anything like that.
In fact, I can find quotes where he wants to remain a Brown. I'm a little confused.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Just saw this and I apologize if it's already been posted...
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Browns reportedly to match Alex Mack offer sheet
By Kevin Patra
Around the League writer
Published: April 10, 2014 at 07:55 a.m.
Updated: April 10, 2014 at 08:36 a.m.
Alex Mack agreed to terms on an offer sheet with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but that doesn't mean he'll be changing addresses.
Once the center signs the offer sheet, the Cleveland Browns figure to match the five-year deal "in no time at all," ESPN reported Thursday morning.
Free-Agent Tracker
Follow all the developments on the NFL's open market with our up-to-the-minute tracking of 2014's free agents. More...
The idea the Browns will match is not new. A report last week stated the team would match an offer "in a second" and owner Jimmy Haslam hinted as much earlier this week.
The only pause in the discussion came Wednesday amid reports that Mack really wanted out of Cleveland. NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reported that the Browns told Mack when slapping him with the transition tag that they wouldn't hold him hostage if he wanted to leave.
One big reveal in the ordeal will be the details of the offer sheet Mack is poised to sign. ProFootballTalk reported the deal would pay out "roughly $18 million to $20 million" guaranteed in the first two seasons. Given that number, it would be a no-brainer for the Browns to match -- they'd be getting him cheaper than if they paid the transition and franchise tag the next two seasons.
The report also added an interesting nugget: The offer sheet includes a clause allowing the player to void the deal after two seasons.
If true, that is a big indicator Mack's camp believes the Browns will match the offer. The player wants the power to test free agency again in short order if new Browns coach Mike Pettine's regime ends as swiftly as all others have during Mack's time in Cleveland.
We could be staring at a rerun of the "Alex Mack Football Saga" in 2016. Can't wait.
Anarchy,, is this part of what you are talking about about him wanting out of Cleveland?
Anyway, if you have him quoted as saying he want's out, I'd really like to read that.. Thanks
There were some excerpts from an interview that he had done. Maybe it was with Baltimore or Indy media, where he said that a team such as that makes you pay attention.
What you posted isn't it. This was earlier in the free agency process.
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This is true, but there are certain things that you don't do in business. You don't publicly state how you really don't like your employer and then talk with other possible employers to set your pay rate.
Ok, I guess I missed the part where he said he doesn't like the Browns.. When did he do that?
He was interviewed and said that he wanted to go to a winning team and one that was stable where there wasn't so much turnover in the coaching staff every year.
He's a laughable joke. Let the jackass go to Jacksonville.
Ok, I missed where he said any of that,, can you help a fellow dawg out and point me in the direction of those quotes? thanks in advance..
I know I've read it somewhere but now (with all the clutter about Mack) it seems to have been lost in the interwebs inner workings. I'm not going to spend a month trying to dig them out.
Also, his agent has said some very nasty things about the Browns and Mack didn't correct the statements. Anything his agent says that goes uncorrected is as good as if it came out of Mack's own mouth.
If you run across it, let me know,, and thanks a bunch.
In case you hadn't noticed, Mack doesn't say much in the media. Almost nothing and he's smart to do that. As for what his agent says, if I were his agent, I'd spread things like that in a heartbeat. Maybe another team sees that and says,, hey, maybe we can get a trade or something. You gotta remember, Macks agent is out there beating the bushes trying to drum up interest in him.. that's his job. I take none of it to heart.
If Mack says, I WANT OUT, then hey, I think it's wise for the Browns to sign him and trade him to a team he wants and that way we get something in return. Who's to say that won't happen still?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Match the offer, then trade him to Jax.
That makes no sense. The article says 18-20M guaranteed. We trade him and the whole 18-20m would hit our cap this year.
If you match, then match and keep him. Otherwise, don't match.
Exactly.
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There aren't any quotes where Mack says that which is why they haven't been provided by now.
The closest thing someone could try to reference is where his agent was quoted as saying he was confident they could put together an offer that the Browns couldn't match. One could infer that means Mack wants out but that would be a faulty inference. I really means he was confident that if another team worked with Mack on creating a contract it wouldn't just be a waste of time (since Browns likely would just match it).
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If we really want him then we shouldn't worry about the two year opt-out clause. We can have him for two years, franchise him in the 3rd if NEEDED, and then let him go afterwards ... he'd be much older by then
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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There aren't any quotes where Mack says that which is why they haven't been provided by now.
The closest thing someone could try to reference is where his agent was quoted as saying he was confident they could put together an offer that the Browns couldn't match. One could infer that means Mack wants out but that would be a faulty inference. I really means he was confident that if another team worked with Mack on creating a contract it wouldn't just be a waste of time (since Browns likely would just match it).
If that's where it's coming from then yes, Faulty inference indeed.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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A trade is unlikely because the cap hit wouldn't be worth the trouble.
If they were going to trade him, why not just franchise him and start accepting offers?
It seems like each side had it's hands tied and did what they could. We won't ever know what they wanted to do, just what they were forced to do within the current system.
If we can retain him for big money for 2 years...sure. As long as we don't need that cap space, and we probably won't, then what does it matter if we're spending $5-15-25 for a pro Bowl center? It's not my money or yours.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
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Do I want Alex Mack at the expense of losing Joe Haden, Jordan Cameron, Josh Gordon, or Phil Taylor, et al? Actually, I don't think that I do.
We currently have around $30 million left in cap room. The Mack deal takes away $10 million. That leaves us with $20 million. We sign all of our rookies, that takes the cap down to about $13 million. We then roll that $13 million over to next year and the cap increases another $10 million.
We will have plenty of room again next season.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887 |
-JC-
I don't think it was a bad move on the Browns at all. They wanted Mack long term, the only way they could get it was to do the transition tag. Franchise tag would of guaranteed him this year only but he would be gone next year and we would be in the same boat.
Our only shot to lock him up was to use the transition tag and hope no one would offer him a stupid contract. 5yr/45million = 9 mil/year overall. Is that too rich??
If it is then we can move on this year and draft a new center, if we Franchise tagged him we would have done that next year anyways.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
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Match the offer, then trade him to Jax.
Why? You take a $20 mil cap hit this season (the fully guaranteed salary) and get what in return? Let him sign with Jax outright and retire a wealthy man in 5 years.
Why would you take a 20 mil cap hit? You trade him with contract intact. Jax assumes it. If you let him walk you get nothing, trade him to Jax and you get something even if it's not much it's better than we'd get now. If Jax doesn't want to trade, you have him for two more years at least. If he wants out I'd rather let him go but get something for a former 1st rounder.
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Quote:
A trade is unlikely because the cap hit wouldn't be worth the trouble.
If they were going to trade him, why not just franchise him and start accepting offers?
It seems like each side had it's hands tied and did what they could. We won't ever know what they wanted to do, just what they were forced to do within the current system.
If we can retain him for big money for 2 years...sure. As long as we don't need that cap space, and we probably won't, then what does it matter if we're spending $5-15-25 for a pro Bowl center? It's not my money or yours.
I don't think it's impossible. As long as there is a Lawyer in the room, it can get done 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Do I want Alex Mack at the expense of losing Joe Haden, Jordan Cameron, Josh Gordon, or Phil Taylor, et al? Actually, I don't think that I do.
But those guys, by your philosophy, have also done nothing to help this team win more than 4 or 5 games a year since they've been here. Why shouldn't we just let any of our players go? Where do you draw the line? If you don't want to pay our PB center, why do you want to keep our non PB DT, Taylor? Has he helped us win?Haden hasn't helped us win more than 5 games. Why do want to keep him at the expense of losing Mack?
I'm not getting your 'dump our players because they don't help us win' philosophy.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Don't you know that no bad teams have good players?
J.J. Watt stinks, his team only won two games last year.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
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Match the offer, then trade him to Jax.
Why? You take a $20 mil cap hit this season (the fully guaranteed salary) and get what in return? Let him sign with Jax outright and retire a wealthy man in 5 years.
Why would you take a 20 mil cap hit? You trade him with contract intact. Jax assumes it. If you let him walk you get nothing, trade him to Jax and you get something even if it's not much it's better than we'd get now. If Jax doesn't want to trade, you have him for two more years at least. If he wants out I'd rather let him go but get something for a former 1st rounder.
Yup, I've been asking about this all along. What happens if we match any offer from team X.. Then, if he really wants out, we trade him to team X, they already made the offer so they had to have the CAP room and were prepared to take him at those numbers if the Browns don't match, so why not nab a 2nd round this year and a 2nd rounder next year. That way, Team X gets their guy, we get a couple of picks and Mack gets out of town if that's what he wants.
I just don't see a problem with that except we still need to find a Center.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 409
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 409 |
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I know I've read it somewhere but now (with all the clutter about Mack) it seems to have been lost in the interwebs inner workings. I'm not going to spend a month trying to dig them out.
No offense, but the "clutter" didn't hinder me in the least in finding actual Alex Mack quotes on this subject.
Is THIS what you are talking about?
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Sports Illustrated's Peter King tweeted Monday that Mack's agent (he didn't specify whether it was lead agent Marvin Demoff or his partner Tim Younger) is "confident" he can structure pact w/a "reasonable likelihood" Browns won't match.
Peter King, tweeted this, but it is all I ever saw from what might have been Demoff, whom everyone is calculating as being the author of a Mack deal.
Here's a quote from one of Mack's other agents:
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"With a player of Alex's caliber, we're very confident that other teams will want to speak with him,'' Younger said. "It's an opportunity for Alex to look around, and he plans on taking advantage of that.''
Another was
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Younger also told cleveland.com last week that he and Demoff are confident Mack will have suitors. If nothing else, teams can bring him in to do their due diligence for next season, when he's likely to become a free agent again.
Still not seeing any negative remarks against the Browns from Mack directly or his agents...
What about the "non-negative" ACTUAL quotes from Mack that I listed, nothing to add?
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 409
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 409 |
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Do I want Alex Mack at the expense of losing Joe Haden, Jordan Cameron, Josh Gordon, or Phil Taylor, et al? Actually, I don't think that I do.
We currently have around $30 million left in cap room. The Mack deal takes away $10 million. That leaves us with $20 million. We sign all of our rookies, that takes the cap down to about $13 million. We then roll that $13 million over to next year and the cap increases another $10 million.
We will have plenty of room again next season.
Actually, the $30M in cap space includes Mack's transition amount of $10.038M...so IF they do not match an offer, then we will have $40M in cap space that needs to be spent somehow and no free agents left to spend it on besides our own.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Okay, so by my rough estimate we would have around $33 million in cap room next year with Mack's contract. That is plenty to re-sign our own guys.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 409
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 409 |
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Okay, so by my rough estimate we would have around $33 million in cap room next year with Mack's contract. That is plenty to re-sign our own guys.
Yes sir, as you stated, PLENTY of cap space...even with Mack in house.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582 |
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He's not convinced Jax to do anything. His agents have with the full knowledge that there is probably nothing they can do to stop the Browns from Matching.
This two year thing is not an issue. He'll stay if the Browns are winning and the Coaching staff stays intact.
Let me ask anyone this question. You get drafted by a team that has a rather poor recent history. You go in the first round, they pay you enough to turn you into a millionare. All is good so far right .
But then the team still continues to lose, coaching changes run rampant and now you find yourself to be at the end of your rookie deal.
You do:
a. Buy into what the Browns tell you about stability and honesty and such in hopes that this time, it will be true
or
b. Test the waters to see what your worth to other teams and then let the Browns match the offer.
I take B every single time.
Mack has done his job. So well in fact that he was rewarded with a Pro Bowl. he's a guy that causes NO PROBLEMS. He's a clean and decent human being. Never beats on anyone, doesn't make crazy statements in the press.
What changed? NOTHING. he's just running it like a business. He knows and so do all players, that when the team doesn't want you anymore, they don't hesitate to cut you loose. There isn't much loyalty either way anymore.
So what the hell is wrong with him exercising his options? NOTHING.
The Browns have been a circus for years. All he wants to know is, does it stop being a circus now, or is it going to continue?
That's fair IMO
^ This.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,164
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,164 |
j/c
Sorry, I did not read many prior posts, 100+ since I last read, if someone already posted this idea.
If this goes down as reported, you have to wonder if Khan and Haslam are not working together. I'd keep on eye on the Jags come draft time. Did the Browns agree not to jump Jacksonville in the drat? Jacksonville and this Mack deal seems to easy.
One other point why are a few so hard on Mack for wanting to sigh with Jacksonville? Mack is negotiating top dollar. He is taking advantage of a situation that a year ago may not have developed. Why would he not try and get top Center salary? I sure as heck want a smart guy on my team. If he does come to Cleveland, I may very well buy his jersey. Kudos Mack!
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
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If this goes down as reported, you have to wonder if Khan and Haslam are not working together.
No you don't.
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Did the Browns agree not to jump Jacksonville in the dra[f]t? Jacksonville and this Mack deal seems to easy.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack continued...
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