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I get where you're coming from...
I'm at the point though where these people who go kill and etc, I don't even want to hear their story anymore. It's getting more and more popular and it's not the type of thing you want in the headlines every week.
Crime is evolving and increasing, I believe our justice system should get renovated some to accommodate the "new type of psycho". The type that can slaughter hundreds and not blink an eye. In TJ's case, he admitted he masturbated at the thought of the dead children he killed. He actually told that to the parent(s) during his trial. With all the concrete evidence, I see no reason for this "thing", this "creature" to still be able to breathe and live their life even if it is in jail. They gave up their right to live when they forcefully took away an innocents right to live and I believe that to be applied to not just TJ, anyone of these killers.
Whether he/she grew up in a bad environment, or whether he/she didn't or whatever their story is/are - the end of the day is innocents having their lives shorted from them just b/c some other person decision, sick decision. I don't need to "get to know" the killer, I don't WANT to "get to know the killer", I want them away from society.
jmo
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 04/14/14 10:29 AM.
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I'm all-in for the idea that these people should die as anonymously as they lived. Reserve the attention and name recognition for:
1. the unfortunate victims
2. responders who administer help, first aid, and comfort
I could get behind that. I have no idea if it would deter anybody but if we reported on the heroic acts and the victims and never even released the criminals name, I'd be good with that. Conduct the trial (if he/she lives) in silence, punish them in silence.. of course the media has a job to do and wouldn't let that happen, but I wonder if would have an effect.
It doesn't seem to me that most people who commit these acts of mass violence at schools are seeking national notoriety as much as they are trying in their own way to indelibly burn their names and faces into the collective subconscious of their communities. It seems like they often have a personal relationship of some sort with their victims, whether it was someone who bullied them, teased, ignored, or some other perceived personal slight. The people who commit these acts are doing so out of revenge. No amount of sheltering from national media is going to change the effects that their actions have on their communities. Ten years from now the average adult in the US will have no idea who TJ Lane is, but nobody in Chardon is ever going to forget that name, and that, I believe, is the real motivation.
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Actually the murder rate in the U.S. is on the decline. Anyone can look at the U.S. Justice Department statistics and it plainly shows this.
It doesn't change mass shootings and the devastation caused by this, but to indicate that murder and violent crime is on the rise is inaccurate.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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When I had said the "Crimes are evolving and increasing" - I should have specified the type of crime. I'm not talking about the gas station robbers, the car thieves and etc - I'm talking about the public murderers. This is a thing that's at least in the headlines x2 a week in some form or fashion.
Military bases, theaters, schools, malls, retirement homes and etc - where can you go now-a-days without wondering if you're going to get shot by someone you don't even know or why? Most these incidents have video, confessions, etc - I just don't understand why we can't dispense of such entities in a quicker fashion? Maybe if others knew they were going to die for what they're planning, they'd think about it twice before carrying out their madness. But no, today's system with a few words - you can ensure you won't be put to death and you'll live, breathe and everything opposite from those you killed are able to.
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 04/14/14 10:58 AM.
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Oh I understand what your saying. But there are, at times, circumstances that may cause me to think that a life sentence is better than hanging them or the needle. I can't think of one so far however.
Overall, when I look at some of the things that have happened like the Chardon shootings, Peducah Kentucky a number of years ago, the Theatre in Colorado, Columbine.. I've had time to listen to or read up on the perps and honestly, there isn't one of them that would escape the hangman if I made the decisions(columbine perps killed themselves anyway)
And probably this kid in PA will be the same. I just don't know that yet..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well when you put it like that... I can definitely respect that point of view a full 100%.
Well said...
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When I had said the "Crimes are evolving and increasing" - I should have specified the type of crime.
Pit is correct and so are you. The murder rate is on the decline but the vast majority of murders used to be between people who knew each other, spouses getting caught cheating, friends getting mad at each other and it got out of control, drug deals gone bad, gang fighting, etc.. .the second largest group was those committed in the act of another crime, robbery, car jacking, etc where somebody would die... All of this has gone down..
What is on the rise and what makes it so appalling, is the amount of killing just for the sake of killing, killing people that the killer has no real connection to and no real reason for wanting them dead.. yet he kills them any way..
So even though the murder rate is on the decline, this random killing is on the rise, which is what makes it so disturbing.. plus they are usually mass killings and they are usually very high profile, so they get a lot of media attention...
yebat' Putin
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Daman, you are homing in on what I was trying to get at.
You think there should be some reason, some excuse for what they have done. You haven't found one yet, and don't think you will, yet you are still looking for one.
I don't think there IS an excuse good enough for murdering multiple innocent people. I don't waste 2 seconds of my time trying to find one.
IMO, a lot of that comes from a need to understand, prevent, and personally avoid such tragedies. Maybe if we just had the right medication, enough social programs, more sensitivity sessions, this could have been stopped and there will be no danger.
IMO there are un-fixable whackos in this world. Always have been, always will be. We as a society need to label their actions as unacceptable, and remove them from the earth as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Instead, we coddle them, make sure they have treatment, comfortable living conditions, we make excuses for them. Most of the captured school shooters will still be alive to talk about their crimes for decades to come. We live in a society that tolerates what they have done.
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Daman, you are homing in on what I was trying to get at.
You think there should be some reason, some excuse for what they have done. You haven't found one yet, and don't think you will, yet you are still looking for one.
I don't think there IS an excuse good enough for murdering multiple innocent people. I don't waste 2 seconds of my time trying to find one.
IMO, a lot of that comes from a need to understand, prevent, and personally avoid such tragedies. Maybe if we just had the right medication, enough social programs, more sensitivity sessions, this could have been stopped and there will be no danger.
IMO there are un-fixable whackos in this world. Always have been, always will be. We as a society need to label their actions as unacceptable, and remove them from the earth as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Instead, we coddle them, make sure they have treatment, comfortable living conditions, we make excuses for them. Most of the captured school shooters will still be alive to talk about their crimes for decades to come. We live in a society that tolerates what they have done.
The key to all of this is, ARE THEY INNOCENT VICTIMS? See, what if one of those kids that were injured in the attack last week in PA instigated the events and kinda got what he deserves. Now, that doesn't mean the other 20 or so folks deserved anything, but maybe one of them did and it opened the flood gates.
Barring that, There isn't a good reason to injure or kill people. Just no excuse for it.
So, it's not just looking at the Perp, it's also looking at those injured or killed. If it comes to light that none of them did a thing to deserve this action, then yeah, I'm of the same belief as others when I say it's time to put the rabid dog down.. JMO of course.
Just check ALL the facts, then make an informed decision. It's not football, something that isn't life or death... This is serious business.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
The key to all of this is, ARE THEY INNOCENT VICTIMS? See, what if one of those kids that were injured in the attack last week in PA instigated the events and kinda got what he deserves.
I see what you are saying and I agree, we have to look at the why of these things if we want to have any hope of keeping them from happening in the future...
It might just be semantics but "deserved it" is a pretty harsh term... Even if one of them has bullied this kid for years, do they deserve to be stabbed? I would agree they need to be considered as instigators and they deserve some pretty harsh discipline because I have no sympathy for bullies "getting what they deserve" but stabbing is a bit much for me.
yebat' Putin
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"deserved it" is a harsh phrase and perhaps not fitting. But I think it expresses what I meant...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If what you meant was to display an almost desperate desire to blame the victim, then, yes, it was appropriate.
Simple probability would indicate that it would be nearly impossible for all 22 victims to have "deserved it". Just exactly how many times does a kid have to steal another kid's fruit cup at lunch, or call him a doo-doo head, to deserve getting your throat slit?
Here is proof positive that there are twisted, damaged human beings with evil intent. They are often impossible to positively identify until they carry out some heinous act. We as society cannot protect ourselves from them in any practical way.
So, some will look for some other cause, one that can be identified, prevented, a way to solve the problem. IMO there isn't one. It is not the victim's fault, it is the fault of the whack-job. Whatever failed inside their brain is not something we can currently fix, or even identify.
The one thing we can do is make very clear to all that such behavior will be punished swiftly and severely. I asked the following question the last time this came up, and got no response, and that's sad. A number of these mass murderers have been captured alive. Has anyone read about any serious, severe, negative consequences for any of these perpetrators? I've heard their names, seen their pictures, and listened to multiple commentators discuss what treatment they should receive and who else might be at fault. Haven't heard a single report of lengthy prison sentence, execution, guilty verdict or even a trial having been Started.
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The one thing we can do is make very clear to all that such behavior will be punished swiftly and severely. I asked the following question the last time this came up, and got no response, and that's sad. A number of these mass murderers have been captured alive. Has anyone read about any serious, severe, negative consequences for any of these perpetrators? I've heard their names, seen their pictures, and listened to multiple commentators discuss what treatment they should receive and who else might be at fault. Haven't heard a single report of lengthy prison sentence, execution, guilty verdict or even a trial having been Started.
The justice system is flawed and I've been saying it all along. IMO, the "insanity plea" is an easy way out for these perpetrators. Easy for lawyers to obtain, easy for judge to slam their gavels and so forth.
It needs re-worked, re-written, re-constructed... it needs SOMETHING changed.
Let's talk turkey here for a second. Drug dealers, simple pot dealers even, who sell their product closer to schools get a harsher judgement passed on them due to being close to school. Why can't we have similar, harsher rules for gunmen who go into schools, or really any "common place of public gathering"? As often as public shootings are and have been getting - why hasn't anything changed in terms of the justice system? When there is no to minimal fear of justice and consequences, then what's going to make criminal/perpetrators think twice or detour them from engaging in criminal actions?
We got murders getting less penalty than the adults who's selling pot because they are trying to survive in some cases. It's completely mind boggling to me. 
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Years of propaganda have convinced the general public that a drug dealer is clearly evil and deserving of severe punishment. With pot becoming legal in more and more states, and bringing in mountains in tax revenue, this attitude is changing.
The mentally-disturbed murderer, however, is just misunderstood by society and we have failed them by not getting them proper treatment. We have also passed laws that allow even the most mentally defective to refuse treatment.
It is usually less than five minutes after hearing about one of these events that I will hear someone trying to make excuses for their actions, or blaming the victims.
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As often as public shootings are and have been getting - why hasn't anything changed in terms of the justice system? When there is no to minimal fear of justice and consequences, then what's going to make criminal/perpetrators think twice or detour them from engaging in criminal actions?
I honestly think most of them don't care what the consequences are, in fact I think it is probably the farthest thing from their mind when they are plotting and planning and doing these things.. I doubt they spend 2 minutes thinking "What if I get caught?" Many of them plan on dying during the commission of the crime any way.
yebat' Putin
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