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Here it comes again. Violent video games are being linked to the VAT Massacre. Just saw on Hardball a guy claiming CSH was known to have been involved with the game CounterStrike. Postal2 and the Columbine game were also mentioned. Do any of you play these games or others of the same type? I am seeing potential legislation coming in the future banning on games that have violent content. I have already heard people saying they want to ban guns in movies and tv. Are these legitimate responses?
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No, they aren't, in my opinion. Pretty soon we'll be playing games and watching movies where we watch people walking around smelling roses for three hours.
It's simple in my mind. Teach your kids right from wrong, police what they are playing and watching, and if there are ANY warning signs toward violent bahavior have it checked out.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Legend
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Those are completely absurd and ludicrous responses that will solve absolutely nothing. It is merely more overreacting to a situation from the already overbearing NannyState because people feel they need to have something to blame to feel like they're fixing the problem. They don't want to accept that they can't fix it because there is nothing to fix. They don't want to do nothing because if they do nothing they think that means they don't care.... so people feel they must do something, even if it's not the right thing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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OH NO NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN!
Nothing bugs me more than this. Just cuz I slit someone's throat in GTA San Andreas doesn't mean I'm gonna do it in real life. Quite frankly I'm afraid of weapons.
The only people who are at all influenced by videogames are psychos who would do it anyway.
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This is a very dumb thought. Just because I play violent games that are amusing doesn't mean I'm going to go outside and shoot someone. I mean come on, who doesn't know the difference between that and real life. If you kill someone in real like there are major consequences, in GTA you come back alive from getting killed.
If people are stupid enough to let a game of make believe influence them that much it's their own damn fault. Videogames are not the same as real life wackos.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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I play, and kick ass at Counter-strike
I played, and kicked ass at Halo 2
I played, and kicked ass at Socom 2
I could keep going, but the point is, I like, and am good at violent shooting games, I do not plan on killing ANYONE... Were there murders before violent video games? Yes
Are there murders now that there are Violent video games, yes.
People who try to ban violent video games with have it shot down instantly or there will just be sales from out of the country shipped into the country via ebay or something and just cost americans more money.
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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Someone railing against violence in video games? Could it have been that POS Jack Thompson. 
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I play counterstrike every day. Basically its a first person shooter with real world guns (Ak47, desert eagle, M4A1, etc.) , Counter Terrorists and Terrorists are the two sides, the objectives depend on the map but are usually bomb planting / bomb defusal, and/or hostage rescue.
This game has also drawn some negative attention in Germany. I believe I read an article that German legislators are attempting to ban it.
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Legend
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those fools... don;t they realize that if it's teaching violence, it MUST also be teaching counter-terrorism. I mean, if it's the game doing it, how could it teach one without teaching about it all? How the hell do they plan to counteract terrorism in the future? May God Have Mercy Upon Their Souls 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The guy I saw on Hardball was saying counterstrike trained CSH to kill. He said no one could have killed so many so efficiently without having experience - experience he claimed came from that particular game.
So, just to play the antagonist, I realize most people who play these games will not act out some violent fantasy in reality. But do these games have the potential to effect unstable people, and if they do, shouldn't some action be taken to cut off access to such games? Are you comfortable knowing that a common link between these school shootings is emersion in violent games?
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Legend
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Quote:
experience he claimed came from that particular game.
Why did the kid have aim-bots & wall-hacks?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Can the games have an effect on f'd up people? Sure.
Can bars have an effect on alcoholics?
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
So, just to play the antagonist, I realize most people who play these games will not act out some violent fantasy in reality. But do these games have the potential to effect unstable people, and if they do, shouldn't some action be taken to cut off access to such games? Are you comfortable knowing that a common link between these school shootings is emersion in violent games?
I will repost something for you:
Those are completely absurd and ludicrous responses that will solve absolutely nothing. It is merely more overreacting to a situation from the already overbearing NannyState because people feel they need to have something to blame to feel like they're fixing the problem. They don't want to accept that they can't fix it because there is nothing to fix. They don't want to do nothing because if they do nothing they think that means they don't care.... so people feel they must do something, even if it's not the right thing.
p.s. there is also another common thread in all of these shootings that is being overlooked: Peanut Butter & Jelly Sandwiches. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those kids at Columbine AND this kid has had a PB & J!
I blame the wheat bread.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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No....
I play counterstrike... quake... god of war... metal of honor... and am an avid paintballer...
and I never have picked up a real gun and don't ever plan on picking one up....
<><
#gmstrong
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1st String
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There must be something to blame with everything that goes wrong and unfortunately people will continue to blame anything that resembles violence in the real world versus violence in video games, if that makes any sense. 
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I have also played God of War, Medal of Honor, GTA, and many other first person shooters, I have also went hunting and shoot target practice but I have never envisioned myself going on a killing spree at a local school or university just because i had gotten upset with someone or something.
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Quote:
Why did the kid have aim-bots & wall-hacks?
hehe....brings me back to medal of honor 
imo this kind of thinking is b.s.
video games don't cause people to kill....they used to make the same argument with D&D
the fact of the matter is people want to point blame at something, so they can assure it won't happen again...they want to feel safe...cause fear sucks...
one wacko out of millions...why does it have to be anything....i guess there was no wackos before videogames....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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I don't think the issue here is violent games cause this kind of thing. I think that is absolutely ridiculous. And there are plenty trying to make that same argument and they WRONG.......However...what I do see is practice in treating another human being as nothing better than a target. I see equating another human as an object. Now if a child is taught from an early age to hate a specific race as many kids were, and are, raised in a KKK sort of environment. They begin to take that as normalcy. And many follow in the same footsteps.
Now I am not saying that because they are playing violent video games that they will become terrorists and lone rogue gunmen....but as they keep playing these games...it is sort of like watching action movies all the time...it sort of numbs you...Now action movies have to do it bigger, badder, and more exciting. So as a young kid continues and continues to treat people as objects...it is not unconcievable that it could be easier for he or she to cross that line if they so choose to.
The biggest proponent to this happening or not happening has to lie with the parents. As a parent you need to know what games your kid is playing...and just because your 6 year old is scereaming at the top of his lungs because he wants an MA rated game, doesn't mean you buy the game for him to shut him up.
Violent games are not the CAUSE...but they can have an influence....Banning these types of games does not solve the problem. Nor should it be attempted to try an solve the problem. The problem lies with the upbringing of the child. Because if they ever do choose to cross that line...there is more wrong with the kids than they played violent video games.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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you know there was no crime or murder before video games right? Throughout all the time man has been on the planet there was never a violent crime up until pong. It was all down hill from there.
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I should add that as a responsible parent you should choose at what age the child is mature enough to play the game....Banning the games completely is just stupid....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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I think we would be much better off in society banning all forms of news media ... after all they're the ones giving this kid all the attention that he was so desperatly looking for. 
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
The biggest proponent to this happening or not happening has to lie with the parents. As a parent you need to know what games your kid is playing...and just because your 6 year old is scereaming at the top of his lungs because he wants an MA rated game, doesn't mean you buy the game for him to shut him up.
i agree with ya totally its the parents job to teach there kids morals and values....
i guess some people just lose it...cause i have no explanation for what could make someone kill someone.....
i have played all sorts of d&d, tons of first person shooters....good guys, bad guys....head shots...you name it, and never once did i ever want to do it for real....
there are bad things that parents can teach....and i agree with you somewhat about us becoming numb to violence...but there is a difference between being able to stomach it, and doing it...
bottom line is that dude had some issues...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Legend
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I truly believe video games influence us, I mean when I was younger I went around chasing yellow dots and blue ghosts, and often would shoot at flying rocks, or I would climb a poorly build building in an attempt to save this girl from a monkey throwing barrels at me. /sarcasm off
I REALLY want someone to do a study on aggressive, hyper kids and their interests. I'd be willing to bet you find a link between kids like that and violent video games. I believe kids like that are drawn to those games, more than the games bring out the behavior.
Athletes aren't athletic because they play sports, they play sports because they are athletic and enjoy them.
People don't buy sports cars THEN decide to drive fast, they are drawn to the car by a personality trait.
Because I liked playing paintball, I should probably be a war monger with a cache of weapons and a survival plan ready? I don't even own a real gun.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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All Pro
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Maybe Gerrard Warren should have played Madden. It would have turned him into a football player.
How in the world can you fix something...
If you don't know how it's supposed to work?
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Quote:
Quote:
Why did the kid have aim-bots & wall-hacks?
hehe....brings me back to medal of honor
Medal of Honor:Frontline, now those were good times. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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I grew up in the country. I shot everything from high powered rifles to muzzle loaders as a kid. I grew up around guns, they were in the house, often unlocked. My stepdad taught me a healthy respect for firearms, but also bestowed the knowledge that his wrath would come down hard if I ever messed with one while he wasn't around to supervise. I respected his rules, the weapons were left alone. When he was home I got to fire the real deal, while he was away I blasted the life out of my video game enimies (Contra on the Nintendo). Never did the two get blended into a highschool bloodbath. And believe me I caught a lot of hell from a lot of real arses while in high school. While I will admit I fantisized about "taking out" a few of the bigger jerks... NEVER, I repeat NEVER did I actually even consider folowing through with it.
So added all up...
I grew up with access to and knowlege of weapons + I was tormented in high school for my size (or lack there of at the time) + I played violent video games = Yet I'm a Hospice nurse not a homicidal maniac. What gives?
The problem now a days is not the weapons but lack of respect. Poor parenting with a lack of discipline leading to the lack of respect... respect for their parents, their teachers, their peers, and then in some cases, life in general.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/PortlandDawg/banner.jpg)
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If you saw the video from the VT killer, it is clear that games were not the reason that this happened.
He is so anti-wealthy people and anti-christ it seems.
If not, youtube search Virgina Tech Killer video, and you will see what I mean, he must have either been treated poorly or something in history really ticked him the hell off.
PRO-BOWLER!
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Legend
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there is a columbine game? that's weak...
in 1966, charles wittman, a student at the university of texas, climbed a tower and opened fire, killing a bunch of people, i'm sure most of you heard about this because they've brought it up recently
there weren't video games in 1966, so what's the reason for that one?
the outcry for video games is because people are way too pc these days... way too sensitive about everything...
where's the outcry for violent movies and television shows?
video games are presented with a rating system similar to movies... and you can't buy certain movies unless you're of age...
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Quote:
there weren't video games in 1966, so what's the reason for that one?
Duhhh.... it was rock n roll's fault then... Probably black sabbath lol
#gmstrong
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I don't blame anyone for what happend. Let's face it, some people are just screwed up regardless.
Counter strike has sold more than 2 million copies and only 1 person has shot up his school for it?
I do, however, turn on the news and see 24 hour coverage of the war in Iraq and suicide bombings. When they finally go to commercial you see a recruitment ad for our nations military. Could that be the cause? hmmm.
Throughout my school days I learned how we slaughtered Indians, fought off the evil British to gain our Freedom , read about the holocaust, how we considered an entire race of people second class citizens and sold them like commodities and later had our own war over this, how we lived in fear for decades thinking the russians would attack us.
Maybe I would stop teaching kids some of these injustices and prejudices before I took away the video games modeled after some of these events.......... just my opinion....
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Legend
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Quote:
I don't blame anyone for what happend. Let's face it, some people are just screwed up regardless.
Counter strike has sold more than 2 million copies and only 1 person has shot up his school for it?
I do, however, turn on the news and see 24 hour coverage of the war in Iraq and suicide bombings. When they finally go to commercial you see a recruitment ad for our nations military. Could that be the cause? hmmm.
Throughout my school days I learned how we slaughtered Indians, fought off the evil British to gain our Freedom , read about the holocaust, how we considered an entire race of people second class citizens and sold them like commodities and later had our own war over this, how we lived in fear for decades thinking the russians would attack us.
Maybe I would stop teaching kids some of these injustices and prejudices before I took away the video games modeled after some of these events.......... just my opinion....
i don't blame video games either, but if there are really games modeled after things like this, i think there is a problem there...
someone mentioned a columbine game, i'm a pretty big gamer, but have never heard of it, if there is, that's just flat out wrong... there's a difference between gta or counterstrike, and a columbine game...
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Someone railing against violence in video games?
Could it have been that POS Jack Thompson.
Fox News had that joker on while information about the shooting was still coming out. It wasn't 2 hours after the whole thing began before they had this clown on and he started on his video game rant.
Said that games like Counter-Strike, Grand Theft Auto, Super Columbine Massacre allowed these kids to "rehearse" these killings.
Like others have said, that's an absolutely ludacris suggestion and banning them is just as stupid. I've played them all... Doom, Duke Nuke'em, Counter-Strike, Grand Theft Auto, Socom, Resistance: FoM, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield: Vietnam, Battlefield 2, Quake, Halo, Far Cry.... You name it, if it's a shooter, I've probably played it extensively.
I've never killed anyone, don't plan to, don't want to. Let's quit blaming everyone else and put the blame squarely where it belongs...on the actual shooter.
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You hit the nail on the head, Portland. I followed the same trajectory as you, was involved with hunting and fishing from an early age, given a pellet gun around age ten, and was taught to respect and use firearms properly. Going hand in hand with that, I also have had a life-long love of playing video games. In high school, I was picked on occasionally and had my share of detractors.
My feeling on issues like this is we, as an entire global community, are raising children too weak-willed to hanlde the reality of the real world. I was always told growing up that the real world is a place that is harsh and unforgiving. Real world experience in my thirty years has taught me that. Every single human being on this earth has struggled with SOMETHING or ANOTHER in the course of their lifetime. I'm not going to pretend that I have the answers, but it really annoys me when people look to take the easy way out. From the jagoff that comitted this heinous act to the politicos and hand-wringers searching for answers, the easy path seems the right one.
Just two weeks ago, rap music was being made an example as a conveinient way to explain how far our society is falling down, according to some in the media. Movies and music have been held to blame in the past as well. Yet, none in power ever stop to think that POPULAR CULTURE IS A DIRECT REFLECTION OF OUR SOCIETY!!!! Turn on the news any given night and the negatives lead off any broadcast. Ten soldiers killed in Iraq! Car crashes on the highway! Burglary on the rise! Civil unrest in the country of your choosing! Bad weather headed this way! When does that feel-good story get reported? At the very end of trudging through all of that crap.
I bear no ill will towards our media because I readily consume it. However, I do toss in this caveat... Those of us that choose to wake each day and carry out our lives without intentionally harming each other do so because we have the power to think rationally and for ourselves. Crime and violence are very selfish acts that usually belie some greater feeling of inadaquacy. And everything I've read about this situation leads me to believe that this case is no different.
"If you need two yards, I'll get you two yards. If you need four yards, I'll get you two yards!" Ron Wolfley, Special Teams Madman
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Quote:
i don't blame video games either, but if there are really games modeled after things like this, i think there is a problem there...
There is a problem in making a columbine game, but the problem is more of a poor judgement than being responsible for what happend at virginia tech.
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I could have swore there were more bleeding hearts running around on the old board. They must have gotten lost on their way over here. Let's back up just a little to try and find common ground. Do you guys agree that prolonged exposure to violent video games has the effect of desensitizing a person to violence?
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Legend
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Quote:
I could have swore there were more bleeding hearts running around on the old board. They must have gotten lost on their way over here. Let's back up just a little to try and find common ground. Do you guys agree that prolonged exposure to violent video games has the effect of desensitizing a person to violence?
no, i don't..
it's all about the person, in my opinion...
i've been playing violent games for a pretty long time, and i'm still very aware that violence in life is wrong... i play grand theft auto, but i know it's wrong to steal cars and murder people, and have not once thought about doing anything like that...
a killer is going to kill, regardless of what video games they play, if you took away video games from some of these past killers, like the columbine kids, they still probably open fire on that day, there is no doubt in my mind...
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
i don't blame video games either, but if there are really games modeled after things like this, i think there is a problem there...
There is a problem in making a columbine game, but the problem is more of a poor judgement than being responsible for what happend at virginia tech.
yeah, that's a completely different kind of wrong...
it's just stupid, and unnecassary...
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Quote:
Do you guys agree that prolonged exposure to violent video games has the effect of desensitizing a person to violence?
Not really. This guy's problem wasn't that he was desensitized to violence, it was that he had an active fascination with violence and wanted his people to suffer. He made sure the people he thought wronged him suffered whereas a person who was desensitized to violence wouldn't care either way if someone got hurt.
You have to have violent tendencies to act upon your ideas. Add this to his obvious mental disorders and you have yourself a school shooter.
If you want to blame something for his actions, blame the system that didn't recognize his mental issues. AOL had some of his plays he wrote in college posted. I'm no english major, but I could recognize his writing comprehension and sentence structure was no higher than a middle school student.
This should have tipped off someone that something wasn't right with his mental development and he needed special attention.
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a killer is going to kill, regardless of .......
You could add almost anything to that quote and it would still be true.
Before video games they blamed television/movies, before movies they blamed games like dungeons and dragons, before d&d they blamed drugs, etc... etc... etc...
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I didn't ask if seeing violence makes a person more likely to do violence. I asked if it desensitizes a person to violence. I think it is well established in psychological studies that it does. Where you go from there is up to you, but I don't see how anyone can disagree with that basic premise.
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