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Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872390 04/13/14 03:21 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	'Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle' http://news.yahoo.com/u-agency-ends-nevada-cattle-roundup-releases-herd-003456278.html?vp=1 Reuters By Jennifer Dobner 4 hours ago BUNKERVILLE, Nevada (Reuters) - U.S. officials ended a stand-off with hundreds of armed protesters in the Nevada desert on Saturday, calling off the government's roundup of cattle it said were illegally grazing on federal land and giving about 300 animals back to the rancher who owned them. The dispute less than 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas between rancher Cliven Bundy and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management had simmered for days. Bundy had stopped paying fees for grazing his cattle on the government land and officials said he had ignored court orders. Anti-government groups, right-wing politicians and gun-rights activists camped around Bundy's ranch to support him in a standoff that tapped into long-simmering anger in Nevada and other Western states, where vast tracts of land are owned and governed by federal agencies. The bureau had called in a team of armed rangers to Nevada to seize the 1,000 head of cattle on Saturday but backed down in the interests of safety. "Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," the bureau's director, Neil Kornze, said in a statement. The protesters, who at the height of the standoff numbered about 1,000, met the news with applause. Then they quickly advanced on the metal pens where the cattle confiscated earlier in the week were being held. After consultations with the rancher's family, the bureau decided to release the cattle it had rounded up, and the crowd began to disperse. "This is what I prayed for," said Margaret Houston, one of Bundy's sisters. "We are so proud of the American people for being here with us and standing with us." A number of Bundy's supporters, who included militia members from California, Idaho and other states, dressed in camouflage and carried rifles and sidearms. During the stand-off, some chanted "open that gate" and "free the people." A man who identified himself as Scott, 43, said he had traveled from Idaho along with two fellow militia members to support Bundy. "If we don't show up everywhere, there is no reason to show up anywhere," said the man, dressed in camouflage pants and a black flak jacket crouched behind a concrete highway barrier, holding an AR-15 rifle. "I'm ready to pull the trigger if fired upon," Scott said. LONG-SIMMERING ANGER The dispute between Bundy and federal land managers began in 1993 when he stopped paying monthly fees of about $1.35 per cow-calf pair to graze public lands that are also home to imperiled animals such as the Mojave Desert tortoise. The government also claims Bundy has ignored cancellation of his grazing leases and defied federal court orders to remove his cattle. "We won the battle," said Ammon Bundy, one of the rancher's sons. The bureau said Cliven Bundy still owes taxpayers more than $1 million, which includes both grazing fees and penalties, and that it would work to resolve the matter administratively and through the court system. Jack Kay, a professor of communication at Eastern Michigan University and an expert on militias, said the federal government did well to step back from the conflict. "These things tend to escalate, someone looks like they're going to pull the trigger and then something happens," he said. Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval, who earlier in the week suggested the federal government had created an atmosphere of "intimidation," said in a statement on Saturday he welcomed the bureau's action. "Given the circumstances, today's outcome is the best we could have hoped for," he said. Hundreds of Bundy supporters, some heavily armed, had camped on the road leading to his ranch in a high desert spotted with sagebrush and mesquite trees. Some held signs reading "Americans united against government thugs," while others were calling the rally the "Battle of Bunkerville," a reference to a American Revolutionary War battle of Bunker Hill in Boston. The large crowd at one point blocked all traffic on Interstate 15. Later, as lanes opened up, motorists honked to support the demonstrators and gave them thumbs-up signs. In an interview prior to the bureau's announcement, Bundy said he was impressed by the level of support he had received. "I'm excited that we are really fighting for our freedom. We've been losing it for a long time," Bundy said. But an official with an environmental group that had notified the government it would sue unless federal land managers sought to protect tortoises on the grazing allotment used by Bundy's cattle expressed outrage at the end of the cattle roundup. "The sovereign militias are ruling the day," said Rob Mrowka, senior scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity. "Now that this precedent has been set and they're emboldened by the government's capitulation, what's to stop them from applying the same tactics and threats elsewhere?" Roger Taylor, retired district manager with the Bureau of Land Management in Arizona, also said the agency's decision to release the cattle will have repercussions. "The (agency) is going to be in a worse situation where they will have a much more difficult time getting those cattle off the land and getting Bundy in compliance with regulations," he said. (Additional reporting by Laura Zuckerman in Salmon, Idaho; Writing by Scott Malone and Alex Dobuzinskis; Editing by David Gregorio, Lisa Shumaker, Robert Birsel) (end)

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872391 04/13/14 03:28 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	This is probably the best explanation of what the situation was down there that I've read. It is one of the comments from someone who goes by Mike Yanagita, posted below the article above: Yahoo presstitues are at it once again with their obvious bias corporate suck up reporting. First, it must be acknowledged that the manner in which federal agents and law enforcement agencies have dealt with protesters is atrocious to say the least. Tazing unarmed civilians, manhandling protesters, and violating the first amendment by setting up unconstitutional “free speech zones” is reprehensible. In addition, one could even make the argument that the treatment of the protesters is more of a legitimate reason to start the next American revolution than the actions they are protesting. In addition, the surrounding of the Bundy Ranch with armed agents, military vehicles, and snipers despite the fact that the court order is merely to block entrance to the federal land and round up the trespassing cattle is nothing if not overkill. Such is yet another example of the nature of the police state in which we now find ourselves. The Background According to many media outlets, the entirety of the story is that the Federal government is attempting to confiscate Bundy’s cows and fine him an unreasonable amount of money simply because of the presence of an endangered species of turtle in the area where the cows feed. Other outlets provide different versions of the story, with facts and timelines arranged in different order. The fact is that Bundy’s cows had been grazing on Federal land. This is not disputed by anyone in terms of the location. Because use of public lands for commercial purposes (ranch cattle grazing is commerce), ranchers are required to pay a grazing fee to the BLM. This fee amounts to about $1.35 per animal. Bundy stopped paying this fee in 1993. Bundy contends that the land is not under the jurisdiction of the BLM or the Federal government, but under the state of Nevada. Thus, he also contends that he owes nothing to the Federal government since he claims that the Feds have no jurisdiction. If he owes anything at all, he says, he owes the money to Nevada or Clark County. Since Nevada is not coming forward to claim their money, Bundy argues that he owes nothing at this time. It should be noted that Bundy says he is willing to pay grazing fees but only to Clark County. Nevada is not coming forward to collect the money, of course, because the land is clearly under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government. Bundy, however, continues to claim that because his family has worked the land since the 1800s, he has pre-emptive rights including the right to forage. However, pre-emptive rights are the result of a contract agreement, a contract that Bundy has stated he does not have. Many of Bundy’s supporters also claim that Constitutional rights are being violated in this case because of a clause in the U.S. Constitution (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17), which supposedly restricts the Federal government from buying from states except for the purpose of erecting “forts, magazines, dockyards, and other needful buildings.” However, the land in question belonged to the Federal government before Nevada even became a state, making it impossible to buy land that was not yet even a state. Even so, the interpretation of this particular clause of the Constitution in this manner is tenuous to say the least since it refers to the legislative governance of the stated areas and institutions under the ownership of the Federal government. In regards to the “turtles,” the claims suggesting that Bundy’s fees were a result of the designation of the desert tortoise as an endangered species are fundamentally untrue. Bundy ceased his payments in 1993. The grazing area was designated as off limits due to the presence of the “turtles” in 1998. Thus, the “turtles” played no part in Bundy’s original resistance to the grazing fee. However, it is also true that the BLM has euthanized a large number of the same tortoises they claim as being endangered; but the stated purpose of this euthanasia was to protect the sick tortoises from infecting the healthy ones being released back into the wild. What should be pointed out, however, is that the DTCC (Desert Tortoise Conservation Center) was actually moved to the land where Bundy’s cattle were grazing in 1991 in order to protect the desert tortoise from becoming extinct due to a development in Southern Las Vegas, a money-maker that grossly outweighed any concern for nature in the minds of business and government. The other side of this story is that since Bundy stopped paying his fee in 1993 and refused to accept a grazing permit, in the eyes of the BLM, there were no ranchers on the public land for five years, since Bundy is the only rancher left in Clark County. Furthermore, although Bundy’s assertions regarding the idea that the BLM and other interests wanted him off the land should be given due attention, it should be pointed out that his original claim against BLM was that the Federal government did not have jurisdiction over the land. In fact, Bundy doesn’t believe the Federal government has authority over much of anything. Last year, he told the New York Times, “I've got to protect my property. If people come to monkey with what's mine, I'll call the county sheriff. If that don't work, I'll gather my friends and kids and we'll try to stop it. I abide by all state laws. But I abide by almost zero federal laws." Lastly, it is important to note that the original stated intent of the BLM and associates was to close off the federal land from the Bundy Ranch and remove the trespassing cattle, not to launch an all-out assault on the ranch in Waco fashion. Government Hypocrisy, Collusion, and Private Interests.......... Of course, it cannot go without saying that if the government were truly concerned about the welfare of the turtles, they would have stopped the development in Southern Las Vegas, not Bundy’s grazing cattle. In addition, concerns about the environment and ecology of the federal lands in question were conveniently missing when the land was opened up for Harry Reid’s pet projects with Chinese businesses. This evidence is damning; it shows government collusion in the form of Senate snake Harry Reid and his former senior advisor who had become the director of the BLM, as well as Reid’s son Rory Reid, the chief representative for a Chinese energy firm that was planning to build a $5 billion solar plant on public land in Nevada. Although the facts are still unclear, many analysts are claiming that the Public Lands on which Bundy’s cattle grazed are not only heavy in mineral deposits but are also set to become an oil and gas fracking project. Potential Scenarios While numerous potential scenarios exist in terms of the outcome of the Bundy Ranch standoff, there are at least four that should be considered before American citizens and militias descending on the property take any direct action. The possibility that the Federal agents will initiate violence to be blamed on the protesters or militia members. We have seen in Syria, Egypt, Libya, Ukraine, and Iran, the use of snipers by Western intelligence to initiate violence and outright combat between government forces and opposition groups, both sides with legitimate griefs against one another. If government agencies wanted to initiate a violent confrontation between itself and militias/protesters, what better way than to fire into the crowd of protesters and/or federal agents to begin the process? The possibility that this situation is being used or was created for the purposes of testing militia members and Americans who would actually respond in a real-life situation such as this. Perhaps the Bundy ranch is nothing more than a bellweather? The possibility that violence is initiated through false flag means or through genuine anger. Mainstream media outlets would now have their ultimate opportunity to tout gun control measures as a necessity. They would make claims such as “First, we have street crime, then random acts of shootings and terrorism, and then school shootings. Now, we have open insurrection by right wing extremists who have proven they want to overthrow the government and set up a (insert “racist” “homophobic” “xenophobic” “radical”) government in its place.” A major propaganda push on the scale of what was seen after the Oklahoma bombing would immediately follow. The potential for violence to break out with militias involved in the shooting. An open insurrection could be declared and martial law implemented throughout the entire country resulting in the possibility of combat between those Americans who do not want to be disarmed or relocated as well as the wide-scale crackdown across the country. With this in mind, we cannot ignore the fact that there have been some very questionable individuals who have been behind “calls to arms” over the Bundy Ranch situation, leading this writer to believe that the likelihood is quite high of some kind of trap - physical or propaganda-based. While the protests have remained entirely peaceful from the point of the view of the protesters (only the police have acted violently), we must guard against the potential scenarios mentioned above. The four points made previously are no reason to suspend a protest. They are, however, reasons to consciously think through the next course of action and the potential ramifications of that action. (end)

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872392 04/13/14 07:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,370 A anarchy2day Hall of Famer
anarchy2day Hall of Famer A Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,370	I know a few folks that said that they were going (from southern Utah and from near Las Vegas) that likely went to protect the Bundy ranch. One small victory for reclaiming our lost liberties.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle anarchy2day #872393 04/13/14 11:17 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I know a few folks that said that they were going (from southern Utah and from near Las Vegas) that likely went to protect the Bundy ranch. One small victory for reclaiming our lost liberties. I really don't know if that is really what's up or not.... From the story above: "Bundy stopped paying this fee in 1993. Bundy contends that the land is not under the jurisdiction of the BLM or the Federal government, but under the state of Nevada. Thus, he also contends that he owes nothing to the Federal government since he claims that the Feds have no jurisdiction. If he owes anything at all, he says, he owes the money to Nevada or Clark County. Since Nevada is not coming forward to claim their money, Bundy argues that he owes nothing at this time. It should be noted that Bundy says he is willing to pay grazing fees but only to Clark County." What difference does it make who he pays, the Feds/BLM or state of Nevada? If he should pay anyone - and I'm not certain he should - he seems like he just found a bit of a loophole and doesn't want to pay his bill.... I think???? I have a feeling this is not the end of this.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872394 04/13/14 11:20 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	P.S. I'm surprised there is not a few people down there with "Save the Tortoises" signs, protesting!

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872395 04/13/14 12:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,370 A anarchy2day Hall of Famer
anarchy2day Hall of Famer A Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,370	Quote: Quote: I know a few folks that said that they were going (from southern Utah and from near Las Vegas) that likely went to protect the Bundy ranch. One small victory for reclaiming our lost liberties. I really don't know if that is really what's up or not.... From the story above: "Bundy stopped paying this fee in 1993. Bundy contends that the land is not under the jurisdiction of the BLM or the Federal government, but under the state of Nevada. Thus, he also contends that he owes nothing to the Federal government since he claims that the Feds have no jurisdiction. If he owes anything at all, he says, he owes the money to Nevada or Clark County. Since Nevada is not coming forward to claim their money, Bundy argues that he owes nothing at this time. It should be noted that Bundy says he is willing to pay grazing fees but only to Clark County." What difference does it make who he pays, the Feds/BLM or state of Nevada? If he should pay anyone - and I'm not certain he should - he seems like he just found a bit of a loophole and doesn't want to pay his bill.... I think???? I have a feeling this is not the end of this. I think that it goes further than that. He might be willing to pay the more local entities because they are the actual authorities over which he should be paying the money. The thing about it is that the State of Nevada would have to not only make the claim for how much they are owed, but would have to prove it (that is, unless Mr. Bundy decided to pay it without challenging it). Or the Clark County government would have to do the same. It would have to make the claim just like the State of Nevada. He wouldn't owe both of them and the state or country governments would have to work out an equitable outcome of which he would need to comply. The federal government may still make it's claim, but they will have to do so forcibly. They may try to make these claims elsewhere (other victims) but the precedent for what course of actions to take regarding resistance have been set.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle anarchy2day #872396 04/13/14 12:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204 C CHSDawg ~ Legend
CHSDawg ~ Legend C Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204	JC Good for them. I wish the Occupy Movement would have grown a pair when the Federal Government cracked down on them like the farmers did here.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872397 04/13/14 12:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 75,232 Smyrna, TN. P PitDAWG Legend
PitDAWG Legend P Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 75,232 Smyrna, TN.	Funny how he seemed to be fine with paying it up until 1993 then suddenly had a change of heart. That seems quite disingenuous to me. It sounds like he fully recognized he owed and paid up until he came up with an excuse to rationalize no longer paying it. Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach. #gmstrong

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle PitDAWG #872398 04/13/14 01:03 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Funny how he seemed to be fine with paying it up until 1993 then suddenly had a change of heart. That seems quite disingenuous to me. It sounds like he fully recognized he owed and paid up until he came up with an excuse to rationalize no longer paying it. Yep. That's what I'm kinda thinkin'..... I think? lol. (Not certain.)

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872399 04/13/14 01:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 75,232 Smyrna, TN. P PitDAWG Legend
PitDAWG Legend P Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 75,232 Smyrna, TN.	Yes that's why I qualified it to "sounds like". I'm not sure I have the entire story yet. Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach. #gmstrong

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872400 04/13/14 06:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 42,961 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 42,961 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: What difference does it make who he pays, the Feds/BLM or state of Nevada? The difference might be that if he pays one of them, the others may come a knocking. This way, he's determining who he owes and that's the one he'll pay. #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Damanshot #872401 04/13/14 08:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,577 Hartford, Ohio B bigdatut Dawg Talker
bigdatut Dawg Talker B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,577 Hartford, Ohio	I like that it takes him 21 years - and counting - to "determine". "If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college" GO ROCKETS

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle bigdatut #872402 04/13/14 08:34 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I like that it takes him 21 years - and counting - to "determine". Yep. It sounds like he was just hoping it wouldn't surface again, but it did.... many, many years later. Now this extended timetable may very well coincide with THIS (rolls ominous music): http://nstarzone.com/NEWS7/182.html - I don't know what to think about this anymore.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872403 04/14/14 07:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 15,015 F FloridaFan Legend
FloridaFan Legend F Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 15,015	jc Quote: A Nevada county commissioner whose fighting to find a way to bring public land under state control said Sunday that the land involved in a dispute between rancher Cliven Bundy, 67, and federal agencies does indeed belong to the U.S. government, but he said he supports the veteran rancher in his opposition to government overreach. He also thinks the government’s response has been excessive. “The land that he’s talking about, that he has been using, that’s land that belongs to the federal government,” Elko County Commissioner and rancher Demar Dahl — who added he’s a personal friend of Bundy — said on Sunday during a phone interview with TheBlaze. “That’s been part of what this fight is about.” Along with being a rancher and an extremely active member of his community, Dahl chairs the Nevada Land Management Task Force, a group formed in 2013 by the state legislature and charged with developing a legal means to transfer control of public lands from the federal government to the state. “That’s part of what we do,” Dahl said. “We have been working to develop a process to bring control of those lands to the state. So [Bundy] is on government land, but we want to find a process to have those lands controlled by the state.” The task force consists of 17 members, each from a different county in Nevada. The group has already held four meetings to discuss plans to transfer control of the public lands to the state. The task force has eight more meetings scheduled for this year and hopes to present its plan for the transfer to the Legislative Committee on Public Lands by September 1, 2014. “We’re looking for ways to afford this and see if we can manage it,” he added. “Once we transfer the control, nothing would change about the land. It’ll still be public. People can still use them; they can still visit them.” The land being fought over by Bundy and federal agents, some 600,000 acres in Gold Butte, Nev., belongs to the U.S. government, according to a 2013 U.S. District Court ruling. “[T]he public lands in Nevada are the property of the United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when Mexico ceded the land to the United States,” the court said, adding that the federal government lawfully acquired ownership of the land under the Treaty of the Guadalupe Hidalgo. Claims that local ranchers should have more rights to the public land, Dahl said, is why the state formed the Nevada Land Management Task Force. The group aims to offer what the federal government offers, but at a local level that better understands the needs and concerns of Nevada’s ranchers. Meet the Pro Bundy Nevada Official Who Wants to Transfer Control to the State and Halt Govt Overreach Embattled Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy, left, and his son Dave Bundy talk to a reporter on the corner of North Las Vegas Boulevard and East Stewart Avenue in downtown Las Vegas Monday, April 7, 2014 (AP) The county commissioner added that he thinks the federal response to Bundy’s refusal to vacate public land has been “unprecedented.” “They send in armed guards. They send in trucks and they take over the area,” he said, noting the size and scope of the federal response. “Look, if this were you and me, we could’ve sat down and figured out a way to figure this out that wouldn’t have involved what the federal government did. That wasn’t necessary and didn’t need to happen. Here’s a man who works hard, runs a large operation — about 900 heads of cattle. And this wasn’t a solution.” “This is government overreach,” the Elko County Commissioner said. Dalh said he had heard that Bundy tried to pay Clark County for grazing rights after the federal government cancelled his permit in 1994, but he could not confirm the validity of this story. “I don’t know why he hasn’t mentioned this more often,” Dahl said, “but when he had his permit cancelled, when he stopped paying the federal fees, he actually tried to pay the county. Obviously, they couldn’t accept his money.” TheBlaze will contact the Clark County clerk’s office on Monday to confirm whether Bundy tried to render payment to local officials. “The problem here,” Dahl said of the recent escalation of hostilities between federal agents and the Bundys, “is that these situations involving the federal government are usually figured out and directed by people who are thousands of miles away.” That, he said, is part of the reason why Nevada is working to secure control of the public lands. Things tend to run better when they’re controlled at the local level, he said. Citing safety concerns, Federal agents from the Bureau of Land Management and the National Parks Services pulled out of Gold Butte Saturday and ceased their roundup of Bundy’s “trespass cattle,” releasing approximately 389 impounded cattle. “Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public,” Neil Kornze, the Director of the Bureau of Land Management, said Saturday in a statement. “We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner.” http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/13/meet-the-pro-bundy-nevada-official-who-wants-to-transfer-land-control-to-the-state-and-calls-the-feds-action-unprecedented/ /> We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle CHSDawg #872404 04/15/14 10:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518 R Riley01 Dawg Talker
Riley01 Dawg Talker R Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518	Sorry but the occupy movement that consisted of bums lookin for freebees were totatally backed up by the dems in congress and their unions cause thats was the lib voter base it was the local people that put a stop to their animalistic behavior that their phony protest against honest hard working americans not the fed govt shame on u for using that excuse

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Riley01 #872405 04/15/14 11:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518 R Riley01 Dawg Talker
Riley01 Dawg Talker R Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518	Why does the liberal media refer to the people that happen to agree with Mr Bundy militia ? I didnt see any acts of violence, threats , or any things that a union strike usually has and their not refered to as militia

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Riley01 #872406 04/15/14 11:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,126 S Squires Hall of Famer
Squires Hall of Famer S Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,126	Quote: Why does the liberal media refer to the people that happen to agree with Mr Bundy militia ? I didnt see any acts of violence, threats , or any things that a union strike usually has and their not refered to as militia The liberals have gone off the deep end with this one. I've seen articles calling this guy a domestic terrorist and comparing him to Timothy McVeigh. It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Riley01 #872407 04/15/14 11:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204 C CHSDawg ~ Legend
CHSDawg ~ Legend C Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204	Quote: Sorry but the occupy movement that consisted of bums lookin for freebees were totatally backed up by the dems in congress and their unions cause thats was the lib voter base it was the local people that put a stop to their animalistic behavior that their phony protest against honest hard working americans not the fed govt shame on u for using that excuse I think you need to re-examine the Occupy Movement and some that are still going on (Like Oakland's).

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Riley01 #872408 04/15/14 11:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994 PerfectSpiral Legend
PerfectSpiral Legend Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994	When a group of civilians show up to a dispute with guns and military style assualt weapons, they are a militia. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Riley01 #872409 04/15/14 11:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399 DCDAWGFAN Legend
DCDAWGFAN Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399	Quote: Why does the liberal media refer to the people that happen to agree with Mr Bundy militia ? I didnt see any acts of violence, threats , or any things that a union strike usually has and their not refered to as militia Guns. These folks were armed with rifles and side arms... while union people leave their guns in the car. That's the difference. yebat' Putin

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle DCDAWGFAN #872410 04/15/14 12:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248 ExclDawg Legend
ExclDawg Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248	Quote: Quote: Why does the liberal media refer to the people that happen to agree with Mr Bundy militia ? I didnt see any acts of violence, threats , or any things that a union strike usually has and their not refered to as militia Guns. These folks were armed with rifles and side arms... while union people leave their guns in the car. That's the difference. Not quite the difference. I know which side has a much bigger history of violence and property damage.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle ExclDawg #872411 04/15/14 12:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204 C CHSDawg ~ Legend
CHSDawg ~ Legend C Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204	And it's the farmers.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle CHSDawg #872412 04/15/14 12:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248 ExclDawg Legend
ExclDawg Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248	In the last 50 or 100 years?

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle ExclDawg #872413 04/15/14 12:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204 C CHSDawg ~ Legend
CHSDawg ~ Legend C Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 18,204	Most likely, just due to the amount of farmers there are. But certainly once you expand your time frame.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle CHSDawg #872414 04/15/14 12:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248 ExclDawg Legend
ExclDawg Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248	Quote: But certainly once you expand your time frame. ... then unions aren't a part of the historical picture? Besides, farmers of 100+ years ago were just today's unions without the lawyers.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle ExclDawg #872415 04/15/14 12:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 8 Butler Co., Oh. Dawghouse Rookie
Dawghouse Rookie Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 8 Butler Co., Oh.	It is BLM land, always has been. That makes it our land, yours and mine. The rules say he pays a certain price to use our land for commercial use, meaning he is making money from the use of our land. I say he pays or gets off the land. When I go out west for vacation, I use a bunch of BLM land and enjoy it. I don't think he gets to spit in my eye or any of yours without penalties. Many are buying into this Clint Eastwood western movie scenario that is building around this, but it's crap. He just doesn't want to pay his fair share for using our land to make his living.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Dawghouse #872416 04/15/14 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,643 A Arps Hall of Famer
Arps Hall of Famer A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,643	Quote: I say he pays or gets off the land. I agree.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Dawghouse #872417 04/15/14 12:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248 ExclDawg Legend
ExclDawg Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248	Quote: It is BLM land, always has been. That makes it our land, yours and mine. The rules say he pays a certain price to use our land for commercial use, meaning he is making money from the use of our land. I say he pays or gets off the land. When I go out west for vacation, I use a bunch of BLM land and enjoy it. I don't think he gets to spit in my eye or any of yours without penalties. Many are buying into this Clint Eastwood western movie scenario that is building around this, but it's crap. He just doesn't want to pay his fair share for using our land to make his living. I actually agree with you for the most part ... although the way the media covers this, versus other protests, is sort of funny. I'm not sure we know the whole story though, as I've heard some other things too ... but who knows what all is true.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Arps #872418 04/15/14 12:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,558 West Central Ohio dawg66 Hall of Famer
dawg66 Hall of Famer Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,558 West Central Ohio	I agree too. He has says that he shouldn't have to pay the Federal Government but that has always been Federal Government land. The article states that his family has used that land since the 1800's and I will bet that most if not all that time his family has been paying some kind of amount to the Federal Government to use it but then in 1993 he just decides to stop paying. My guess is that when all the other ranches that were using that land disappeared that he thought he would try to get away with not paying. #gmstrong Live, Love, Laugh

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle Dawghouse #872419 04/15/14 12:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399 DCDAWGFAN Legend
DCDAWGFAN Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399	I don't think anybody is arguing that he should get to use public land for free.. it's the difference in the way this protest is being covered compared to others... I think that if everybody who takes a stand in a rural setting is referred to as a militia, then everybody who takes a stand in an urban setting should be referred to as a gang. yebat' Putin

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872420 04/15/14 12:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 75,232 Smyrna, TN. P PitDAWG Legend
PitDAWG Legend P Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 75,232 Smyrna, TN.	j/c Quote: A number of Bundy's supporters, who included militia members from California, Idaho and other states, dressed in camouflage and carried rifles and sidearms. It doesn't seem to me they're calling this incident as being a militia per say. It only says that some of the supporters were militia members. seems that it could very well be that some of those who came were actually from known militias. Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach. #gmstrong

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872421 04/15/14 02:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 742 Oregon D DonCoyote All Pro
DonCoyote All Pro D Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 742 Oregon	jc Awesome. let's all show up with 1000 cattle on this spot. Per capita that's only 300 Billion cows. I'm sure there's plenty of grass for all of them. The Bundy Family obviously wants us all to share the land. Then, we can all show up at a corporate logging site on Federal Land and take our share of trees. Or a Federal Oil Lease Site. Hand over the pump, Exxon. We are here to get our free barrels. FOX would certainly support us

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle ExclDawg #872422 04/15/14 02:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994 PerfectSpiral Legend
PerfectSpiral Legend Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994	Quote: Quote: It is BLM land, always has been. That makes it our land, yours and mine. The rules say he pays a certain price to use our land for commercial use, meaning he is making money from the use of our land. I say he pays or gets off the land. When I go out west for vacation, I use a bunch of BLM land and enjoy it. I don't think he gets to spit in my eye or any of yours without penalties. Many are buying into this Clint Eastwood western movie scenario that is building around this, but it's crap. He just doesn't want to pay his fair share for using our land to make his living. I actually agree with you for the most part ... although the way the media covers this, versus other protests, is sort of funny. I can't remember any protests with armed civilians (militia) showing up and wanting a fire fight with federal authorities. This was a powder keg waiting to go off. Thank god it was avoided, for now. Most media outlets have an agenda. If folks can't read between the lines then it's their issue, not the media's. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle DonCoyote #872423 04/15/14 02:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994 PerfectSpiral Legend
PerfectSpiral Legend Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994	Quote: jc Awesome. let's all show up with 1000 cattle on this spot. Per capita that's only 300 Billion cows. I'm sure there's plenty of grass for all of them. The Bundy Family obviously wants us all to share the land. Then, we can all show up at a corporate logging site on Federal Land and take our share of trees. Or a Federal Oil Lease Site. Hand over the pump, Exxon. We are here to get our free barrels. FOX would certainly support us That reminds me. Most ski slopes are on BLM lands. If they don't pay their lease fees, they lose the use of the lands. If you want to walk up the hills and ski down, it's free to do so. Hence the term "lift ticket". A ticket to ride on the ski lifts are what you pay for, not the use of the ski slopes themselves. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle PerfectSpiral #872424 04/15/14 02:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248 ExclDawg Legend
ExclDawg Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,248	Quote: Most media outlets have an agenda. If folks can't read between the lines then it's their issue, not the media's. Well I guess that makes it okay then. We shouldn't hear any complaining about Fox News again.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle PerfectSpiral #872425 04/15/14 03:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399 DCDAWGFAN Legend
DCDAWGFAN Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399	Quote: armed civilians (militia) showing up and wanting a fire fight with federal authorities. If they had wanted one, they could have had one... Quote: Most media outlets have an agenda. If folks can't read between the lines then it's their issue, not the media's. I disagree.. in general it is the medias job to report the news and draw a clear distinction between what is factual reporting and what is opinion and I think they do a horrible job of that. I don't begrudge anybody for having an opinion and I don't begrudge Fox or CNN or MSNBC or the NY Times for having opinion talk shows and columns but as a viewer, as a citizen, it should be easier for me to tell which is which.. Your comment is a perfect example of something that would appear in a news article.. that they showed up WANTING a fire fight with federal authorities.. that is something that would appear in a news article that should be strictly left to those who want to opine an opinion.. yebat' Putin

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle PerfectSpiral #872426 04/15/14 04:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 742 Oregon D DonCoyote All Pro
DonCoyote All Pro D Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 742 Oregon	Quote: That reminds me. Most ski slopes are on BLM lands. If they don't pay their lease fees, they lose the use of the lands. If you want to walk up the hills and ski down, it's free to do so. Hence the term "lift ticket". A ticket to ride on the ski lifts are what you pay for, not the use of the ski slopes themselves. Really? I never knew that. I'm all for giving The People the benefits of public lands. I think citizens should get royalty checks for public leases (including oil, gas, timber). Instead, its all fuel for corporate profits and Gov't coffers. That said, its impossible for all of us to do what this guy is doing. He is the reason we need an agency to manage this.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle #872427 04/15/14 04:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518 R Riley01 Dawg Talker
Riley01 Dawg Talker R Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518	So the scumbag Marc Rich and Wife [a huge clinton donor]got pardoned from owing 75 million in fed taxes guess they didnt send armed fed officers brandishing weapons to his homes, but some here are preaching ,"The law is the law" for a hardworking american that disagrees with the govt and wants to be heard, i dont know if he is rite or wrong and i wont pretend to know ,maybe we should try to get our 500 million back from solyndra while were collecting debts

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle DCDAWGFAN #872428 04/15/14 04:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994 PerfectSpiral Legend
PerfectSpiral Legend Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 15,994	Quote: Quote: armed civilians (militia) showing up and wanting a fire fight with federal authorities. If they had wanted one, they could have had one... Quote: Most media outlets have an agenda. If folks can't read between the lines then it's their issue, not the media's. I disagree.. in general it is the medias job to report the news and draw a clear distinction between what is factual reporting and what is opinion and I think they do a horrible job of that. I don't begrudge anybody for having an opinion and I don't begrudge Fox or CNN or MSNBC or the NY Times for having opinion talk shows and columns but as a viewer, as a citizen, it should be easier for me to tell which is which.. Your comment is a perfect example of something that would appear in a news article.. that they showed up WANTING a fire fight with federal authorities.. that is something that would appear in a news article that should be strictly left to those who want to opine an opinion.. There is nothing to disagree with. Every media outlet has their own agenda whether you like it or not or wether we agree with it or not. We know what their job is, and we all should know they stretch and twist things to fit their liberal or conservative agendas regardless. We need to filter that BS on a daily basis. If we don't it's our issue. The media outlets aren't going to change the way they report the news. I didn't hear any news article or media outlet stating they showed up WANTING a fire fight. I read between the lines when I saw an armed militiamen with a sinister smile saying he was ready for a fight, while proudly holding his military style assualt rifle in full camo gear. I'm betting I'm not too far off base. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

Re: Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle PerfectSpiral #872429 04/15/14 06:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518 R Riley01 Dawg Talker
Riley01 Dawg Talker R Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,518	an im bettin dirtbag liar HARRY REED is the real culprit in this with some kind of agenda to enrich himself and his family by using his office and the silent mainstream media .

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