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I agree. Not wearing the glove was a lame ass excuse.
On the other, search all you want and try and find even one time I used that excuse.
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Dude, it was just a joke. Talking football is supposed to be enjoyment. if the browns take the guys you want, hope you are right. If they take the guys you dont want, hope you are wrong. Hell if they take someone i actually want in the first, that will be a first lol.
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Hell if they take someone i actually want in the first, that will be a first lol.
Yea, I could count the times on one hand they have actually taken the guys that I wanted or thought they would take over the last 10 years... but then again we haven't been very good, so maybe I was right. 
yebat' Putin
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It comes out a couple weeks before the draft? It was obvious in the game. He got hurt on a hit by George Uko that sent his shoulder into the ground funny in the first quarter on a play that was nullified by a penalty.
funny, i don't really recall him being looked at by the training staff???? Anybody else recall that??? The only thing i remember is how poorly he played against a top tier defense (and USC was down last year).
If they go Carr, i just hope they have done their homework- i have some serious doubts about him. But hey, i'm just an arm chair qb, so what do i know.
Just watch the clip on draftbreakdown.com, they kept that image of him getting up off the ground afterwards in the video. He was seen messing with his shoulder a couple more times in the broadcast (not included in the cut-up) including just before halftime. It's not something I just made up.
Last edited by clevesteve; 04/24/14 09:29 AM.
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It's a lame excuse. He was overthrowing guys by a mile right off the bat. Check out his footwork. The guy played scared.
Hmm, right off the bat (first play of the game) he dropped a perfect teardrop over Davante Adams' shoulder after seeing the blitz coming from the right pre-snap. He didn't miss any of those three throws deep until after he hurt his shoulder. He was still accurate with the hard throws after he was banged up but completely lost his touch after that.
Last edited by clevesteve; 04/24/14 09:32 AM.
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I certainly hope "many in football" are wrong, because while Carr looks like a world-beater when throwing passes in drills, he looks like Mark Sanchez when there are actually players playing defense against him.
Couch, Frye, Quinn, McCoy, Weeden...I've liked none of them and view Carr in the same ilk.
I don't know...I hadn't paid much attention to him but from what I have seen it looks like he throws just fine. Really fine for that matter. I saw him pressured and he wasn't falling apart in the clips I saw.....but you guys know more about it than I.
I agree. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, which I think is what's going on here.
I can assure you that isn't the case, at least as it pertains to my views of Carr.
His 2012 games showed a guy who was a one-read-and-throw QB who never took a snap from under center and panicked under pressure. More critical are his 2013 games, so that's what I've been watching in recent months. So what did I see?
I saw a guy in 2013 that was a one-read-and-throw QB who panicked under pressure. Often when he wasn't under pressure he'd make throws right into coverage. To me that suggests a mind that cannot process information quickly enough, and QB's who cannot process information quickly enough don't make it in the NFL, aka Brandon Weeden.
IMHO Carr is a 3rd round QB with 1st round tools who'll take several years to show whether or not he's going to be an NFL-level passer. That isn't something I want in the 1st round because we all know it's just a very short matter of time before a 1st round QB is thrown into the mix.
Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel are in a tier than Carr. I hope this regime doesn't make the same mistake as the last one, reaching for a developmental QB in the 1st when the player isn't in that class.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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What puts Bortles in that top tier?
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2nd String
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What puts Bortles in that top tier?
^^^^This^^^^
I don't see Bortles as anything different than Carr and Savage. They will all be projects.
For that matter, an offense will have to be developed for Manziel, simply because he is so much different than anyone else in this draft. (or any other draft for that matter)
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Bortles has the highest upside, that's why they call them prospects.
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Bortles has the highest upside, that's why they call them prospects.
Could anyone elaborate on this with some content?
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Bortles has the highest upside, that's why they call them prospects.
Could anyone elaborate on this with some content?
He's big. Duh.
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average at best arm with the wind blowing with him, poor accuracy to all levels, often throws from the hip with a windup, if the ball is wet he is a nightmare to watch. I still dont see why he is considered a first.
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I still dont see why he is considered a first.
See the answer above.
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He is mobile, he is 6-5 230 (like it or not, it matters), he goes through his progressions well, he isn't afraid to stand in there and take hits, he improved each season.
His accuracy isn't great, his arm is good but not elite.
He has very high upside. A lot of the NFL draft is projecting how guys will do on the next level. It's the reason they have the combine.
I'm not his biggest fan, but he is a nice prospect.
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How often does a guy's arm strength and accuracy improve once he is in the NFL?
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Arm Strength is over stated, we both know that. Accuracy is a concern, even more so, ball placement.
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Accuracy is a concern, even more so, ball placement.
and decision-making. and pre-snap awareness. and long windup on any passes with velocity (batted balls, safety pass deflections)
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He is mobile, he is 6-5 230 (like it or not, it matters), he goes through his progressions well, he isn't afraid to stand in there and take hits, he improved each season.
His accuracy isn't great, his arm is good but not elite.
He has very high upside. A lot of the NFL draft is projecting how guys will do on the next level. It's the reason they have the combine.
I'm not his biggest fan, but he is a nice prospect.
While I agree with most of what you wrote as I believe you are trying to be honest I gotta call bull on his ability to go through his progressions and his improving every season as strengths.
He only started 2 seasons and while his YPA improved as it should he actually threw more picks and the exact same TD. If you want to say he was able to push the ball down the field more I can accept that but I just want to point out that when a prospect is said to have improved each season(which is an incredibly significant indicator of NFL success among others) it is dramatic and across the board. Like I said no bias I just want truth in discussion.
While I offer no stats to prove he is anything less than average when it comes to going through his progressions I see rather commonly Bortles is sighted as staring down his first read and forcing passes. Tape backs that. Compared to other top QB prospects of the last 10 years he is very lacking in the mental maturation from a QB standpoint. With his slightly above average velocity they are picks in the NFL. While he is not atrocious it is the greatest reason he is seen as a project.
As far as my own 2 cents IMO These two indicators are some of the most common among busts. Everyone wants the guys who's 6'5 230 but the speed of the signals in the brain are much more important. Not to say he can't but history says it's at minimum not likely and there is no way to know until he plays. That doesn't give me much confidence in betting my job on a savior if Im an NFL GM.
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when I watched him I definitely saw him check more than one target on more than one occasion. I do think that's something he has the ability to do, and frankly the only reason i moved him up as a 2nd-round area guy instead of a third.
JMO.
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Good post. You were due for one. J/K brother.  That's one of the reasons I like Bridgewater. I think he lacks some of that leadership quality you want to see in a QB, but man, when he was sitting down with Gruden, breaking down coverages, I was amazed at his intelligence. I really like this dude.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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How often does a guy's arm strength and accuracy improve once he is in the NFL?
If you are inaccurate in college, you will be inaccurate as a pro. the only area where accuracy will actually improve is in deep ball accuracy just because the arms gets stronger. Arm strength improves for everyone as they mature but how much it improves depends of size and frame and basic genetics.
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So why don't you like Bridgewater then?   I'm torn on any QB in this class by now. I guess I let the media blah get to me, but I still do like Bortles and think he gets called out for some stuff pretty much any QB in this class not named Teddy B. has issues with too. How can anyone criticize him for making bad reads but then turn around and praise Manziel for his stupid 5+ seconds chicken runnings. I still think he got lucky he had an NFL caliber OL protecting his ass and a mommoth top 15 WR catching his stupid hero hail marys. In the NFL vs NFL game, I expect him to be a TO machine and the O/U when he hits the IR is 100 snaps. I don't see a pass first QB, sorry. He lives off his legs, like Kaep, but he doesn't have Kaep's body and upside as a passer. The biggest "argument" for Manziel has become "he's special" or "you got to tailor your Offense to him, because he's so unique". To me this means he's a limited player and that stuff won't fly long term, even if they give him a tailor made Offense. It WILL get figured out by the NFL. Sooner or later a QB in the NFL has to make good throws to win games, that's their job description at the end of the day and Manziel simply lacks too many things as a passer. He actually reminds me a lot of Hoyer with better wheels...limited, but gutsy, not afraid to throw it up for grabs. When a guy like Bortles does this, he made a bad read, when Manziel does it, it's Johnny special. I call big time BS. It's the same issue for both, just perception and wishful thinking clouding it
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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He doesnt put the spin on the ball to be effective when the weather turns. I think he will be another Andy Dalton, when the weather picks up he is gonna struggle. He has struggled in games with a wet ball and he says he has trouble gripping a cold ball. I just have major reservations when it comes to Bridgewater. Those wounded ducks he got away with are pick sixes at the here.
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As for Bortles, I see ordinary and Ordinary you can get undrafted. The only thing special with Bortles is size. If you want me to take you in the first, show me something special.
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I don't know if Bortles has the highest upside, but he has come a long, long way in a short period of time. He wasn't on hardly anyone's radar last year. Who knew about him 2-3 years ago? I remember springing him on you guys early this year, before the national media did.
He skyrocketed up the charts because of his performance. Does that help?
Here is another thing. Unlike a guy like Carr, Bortles thrives under pressure. He makes big plays at the end of games to win games. He's clutch. That is pretty impressive.
I think he he is still growing as a qb. He needs to learn how to look off the safety a lot better. He needs to read coverages better. He has a couple of flaws in his foot placement at times.
Again, I am not saying he has the highest upside, but I think there are reasons to say he will keep improving.
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As for Bortles, I see ordinary and Ordinary you can get undrafted. The only thing special with Bortles is size. If you want me to take you in the first, show me something special.
Man, we evaluate QBs so differently.
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What puts Bortles in that top tier?
Clearly subjective on my part, obviously, but even though I don't necessarily care for Bortles' arm in some ways, I do think he has a natural feel that Carr doesn't have. There aren't stats which can quantify that statement. It's an eye-ball test thing. He appears to have more feel in the pocket, when to escape and how, and he appears to not have the blind-hickups that Carr has.
Now is that something worth a round or two? It is to me. I don't believe his mind works well enough to be a 1st rounder, making him a developmental guy...just like Weeden was.
Every single QB in the NFL has most of, if not all, the tools necessary to be good in the league. It's their mind that makes the difference, and his doesn't appear to process information in a requisite manner.
Dawglover...I'm watchin' you, Foo! 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I honestly think if Bortles had stayed in college one more year, he would of been worth a Top 5 pick next year, and been able to start right away...
I wouldn't take him before the 26th pick. And I'd almost make him sit a year.
Same thing with Carr, who I'd rather take at 35 if I had to take him.. Anyone who drafts him in the Top 10 is asking for trouble IMO.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I heard one of the "experts" on the radio yesterday, I think it was Hasselbeck, say that he thought a good NFL comparison for Bridgewater was Alex Smith... I can see that.
yebat' Putin
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Bortles reminds me of Big Ben as far as his potential goes.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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So isn't it draft time yet? What 16 days? enough already...
Manziel at 4...Hoyer starts and keeps his job cause he kicks butt. and we take Savage in the 5th round.
Are you ready for some Football!
Tab, you think Manziel will be there at 4? Personally i think either the Texans will take him first overall or the jags will take him at 3. NOW...the texans trade with atlanta like some think they will then yes, he could very well be there at 4....it would depend on what the jags do at 3...as they would probably have their choice of manziel or bortals
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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Slick this draft is maybe the BIGGEST unknown in the top 5 I have ever seen - since 2001 I've been really educated on drafts due to the INTERNET discovered by me then. You got guys who could go overall #1 or not in the first round at all? You got a position player that is a freak but his film really is not that good. So there is a question if his drive n heart is there. You got a couple of players that had a good last year but were not dominant throughout their college careers - Once again you got two of the safest picks being Offensive Tackles. Around this time before the draft you got just about the entire top 10 the same with all the mocks out there. possibly a change here n there with each other. NOT THIS YEAR.
So who knows. Manziel...I've said it before. IN THE HISTORY of the modern era of football. A QB under six feet has never been drafted in the first round. I like him. I would love him at 4 but I do believe in History too. So I'm confused as heck on what will happen. Teddy was the overall number one pick in September 2013 December 2013 January 2014 Feb. 2014...and now he's not going to go in the FIRST ROUND?  Without Injury, Drugs, Arrest involved. Just too many BOZOS involved and have to tweet and blog something 24/7. Making all the GMs jobs easier with the pre-draft Smoke if you ask me
jmho...when in doubt Go see the draft Mocks after the Bowl games 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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So who knows. Manziel...I've said it before. IN THE HISTORY of the modern era of football. A QB under six feet has never been drafted in the first round. I like him. I would love him at 4 but I do believe in History too. So I'm confused as heck on what will happen.
Keeping in mind that in the history of the modern era of the NFL it has never been more of a passers league, it has never been more of a read-option league, and the rules have never been nearly as favorable towards protecting receivers and QB's. Then you have the rings now owned by Brees and Wilson, so when one combines all those factors, being taller than 6' doesn't mean what it used to.
Manziel is highly unlikely to drop into the 2nd round, just as I think it's nearly impossible that Bridgewater will as well.
Having said all that and while knowing how badly we need a future QB, I'm not of the opinion that we should reach for a QB with our first pick. We can work with our extra picks in combination with the 26th pick to get a guy after #4.
Bridgewater is still my guy but there are some virtual locks in the top-5. I'd go that route and dig for a QB later.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Just my evaluation....if you want another Gino Smith.... Teddy is your man.
I say we pass on qbs till our 2nd round pick. Again just my evaluation we take Aaron Murray. Some say he is a 3 rd round guy but I feel like someone will take him earlier and that he could end up being the best qb in this class.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Slick this draft is maybe the BIGGEST unknown in the top 5 I have ever seen - since 2001 I've been really educated on drafts due to the INTERNET discovered by me then. You got guys who could go overall #1 or not in the first round at all? You got a position player that is a freak but his film really is not that good. So there is a question if his drive n heart is there. You got a couple of players that had a good last year but were not dominant throughout their college careers - Once again you got two of the safest picks being Offensive Tackles. Around this time before the draft you got just about the entire top 10 the same with all the mocks out there. possibly a change here n there with each other. NOT THIS YEAR.
So who knows. Manziel...I've said it before. IN THE HISTORY of the modern era of football. A QB under six feet has never been drafted in the first round. I like him. I would love him at 4 but I do believe in History too. So I'm confused as heck on what will happen. Teddy was the overall number one pick in September 2013 December 2013 January 2014 Feb. 2014...and now he's not going to go in the FIRST ROUND? Without Injury, Drugs, Arrest involved. Just too many BOZOS involved and have to tweet and blog something 24/7. Making all the GMs jobs easier with the pre-draft Smoke if you ask me
jmho...when in doubt Go see the draft Mocks after the Bowl games
Well....this might sound crazy but im sold on jimmy garoppolo. If possible i would love to see us trade back a few spots,hopefully picking up another 2nd round pick, then take one of the top two cornerbacks. With The 26th pick i would love to get Jimmy there. In the second round we could then concentrate on wr and inside linebacker.
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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Can you please explain how Teddy and Gino Smith are the same type of QBs, other than their skin color?
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I don't see the similarities either.....
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Toad who do you view as an elite guy for us at 4???
The OTs don't make a lot of sense do to the amount of $$$ we have tied up in the OL already.
Mack is the same thing because we have invested a ton there already, and if he moves inside do we really want a MLB at 4???
I personally want no part of JC.....we have had our share of guys who looked like Tarzan played like Jane....no thanks.
Watkins intrigues me, and could be a nice pairing with Gordon, but WRs have a bigger bust rate than QBs so he isn't automatic.....and some would argue Evans is a better prospect.
To me it is quite simple, you either draft a QB you want that you know won't be available past the top 10 or you trade down as slick suggested to a team needing an OT or OLB. As Django would rant..lol....there is simply little value in the Browns selecting any of these people as compared to either a QB they like or getting extra picks to move back some.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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~ Legend
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The good thing about taking a tackle is having another Joe Thomas type player after JT retires in about 5-6 years.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 ‘Many in football’ believe
Cleveland Browns will draft Derek
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