http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/16/2014-nfl-dr...f-fresno-state/he Cleveland Browns need a quarterback and are likely to draft one with the fourth overall selection in the 2014 NFL Draft. But who? While a couple names may be off the big board when the Browns select, a handful of popular names will still be available from the collection of Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater and more.
But it’s not Manziel, Bortles or Bridgewater that the Browns have their eyes on according to Mike Freeman who reports that ‘many in football’ believe the Browns will draft Derek Carr with the 26th overall selection.
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The stats for the two-time Mountain West Player of the Year are astounding. Last season alone, Carr completed 454 passes for 5,083 yards and 50 touchdowns — all tops in the NCAA. In eight of Fresno State’s 13 games, he topped 400 yards through the air, and surpassed the 500-yard total twice. Over back-to-back games against New Mexico and San Jose State, Carr threw for 13 total touchdowns. His numbers are among some of the most prolific all-time in FBS history. Of course, much of the credit there goes to the Bulldogs’ playbook, which featured pass after pass after pass. Still, the 6-foot-3 Carr, brother of former No. 1 overall pick David Carr, made the offense go with his rifle arm, which may be why many in football told Freeman Cleveland has its eye on Carr.
They love him. They really love him. The feeling with many in football is that Cleveland will take Carr with its 26th pick. Other quarterbacks are rising quickly, but he might be rising the fastest. He has charmed almost every team he’s met with and his arm and accuracy are underrated. And no one seems to be scared of the fact he’s related to epic draft bust David Carr, a notion that was definitely in play just a few months ago.
Carr appeared on NFL AM Tuesday morning recently and shared his belief that he is “absolutely” the best quarterback prospect in this year’s class. If you do not believe him, he suggests you go turn on some tape.
“Absolutely,” he said when asked if he was the best QB in the class. “And I say that with respect to all the other guys because they’re great competitors and all those good things. And it’s not easy for me to answer a question like that but I absolutely think so.
“There’s no doubt in my mind. We can turn the film on, sit down and watch it and we’ll talk about it and I’ll convince you.”
He may have already convinced the Browns.
If we draft him..................I'm done.
Turn the tape on? Really? You freaking suck w/your happy feet and inaccuracy issues.
Vers I understand how you feel and respect your opinion but to me no matter who the Browns draft, even if I don't agree 100% I will get behind that player and support him because as a diehard fan that is the thing to do. I think we should take one of the top 2 OL Watkins,Clowney or Mack with #4 and a QB later but that is JMHO. What do you think?
We all have our opinions, Homes.
Not trying to change you mind. Just voicing my opinion.
I think we should draft Teddy or Manziel at 4. No doubt about it.
Of course, we probably won't. The only guy the Browns ever took that I was praying for was Joe Thomas.
We almost always do stupid things. I don't have much confidence in Farmer and Petting in terms of the draft. They make stupid comments.
Just when I thought we were set to move forward............we do something rash and put two guys who have almost no experience w/the NFL draft in charge.
They are either the masters of deception or are draft ignorant. Hoping for the former.........expecting the latter.
If they do draft Teddy or Manziel at #4 I'll get behind them100%. Thank you for your opinion and response.
Hey Homes.................don't take any of that personal. It's just an opinion, man.
I'm not. Like I said, I respect others opinions and like to hear them.
I know Carr's not too well like on this board, but to be honest it would not surprise me one bit if we drafted him.... 'For better or for worse (sighs).'
Id rather pass on Carr was well but they have alot more axcess to his game film, and such than we do. I wouldnt be against it in the 2nd round. but would rather get some o-line help and cb help in the first.
I doubt they have more than I do. LOL
youtube only shows you so much. Lombardi.....err i mean vers. LOL
Eh, I really hope this isn't true. Especially at four.
The only QBs I'd take at four would be Bridgewater or Manziel.
I see why it can be easy to fall in love with Carr, with his excellent arm talent and underrated athleticism. By all accounts, he is also a hard worker and a good leader. But he seems to lack any semblance of pocket presence, and that worries me. I also question his ability to handle pressure and drop back from center while reading a defense and going through his progressions.
I also don't understand the people who criticize Bridgewater for his frame, when he (6'2 1/8", 214, 9 1/4" hands) and Carr (6'2 3/8", 214, 9 1/8" hands) are almost identical in stature, yet Carr seems to receive no criticism for his frame.
I know Bridgewater's arm is not as good as Carr's, but I think it is definitely good enough, and Bridgwater excels in the areas Carr struggles - pocket presence, blitz recognition, progressions.
While arm strength cannot be completely discarded, I think once it is established that a QB's arm strength surpasses a minimum threshold by NFL standards, then pocket presence and accuracy are the most important factors. To me both Bridgewater and Carr surpass the threshold for arm strength, and when I turn to evaluate them on pocket presence and accuracy, I'll take Bridgewater every time.
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If we draft him..................I'm done.
I am kind of rooting for us to draft Carr now.
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youtube only shows you so much. Lombardi.....err i mean vers. LOL
It's ok to look at Carr's finer points or believe they have good film on him, but how is it possible to downplay his performance against USC or any good competition for that matter?? I don't compare him to Weeden like a lot on here may, but I DO think he's BQ 2.0.
I can't stand the guy. For the record, I don't like Manziel either, and I thought he was completely off the radar when Lombardi left. The more I keep thinking about it, though - especially with the effort to change the culture to one of urgency - I am beginning to believe Manziel may be our guy once again.
I am 99% convinced Manziel is our guy at 4. Haslam loves the guy and he is perfect for Shannahan's offense. Everyone was convinced Manziel was our guy then we start hearing Manziel was never our guy it was Carr all along and this from the regime that is trying to keep everything secret.
Carr is probably option 2 but Johny Football in my opinion is priority #1 for this draft.
"Many in football" believe the Browns will draft Derek Carr.
Well That Will (go bad, boo!)
I hope Haslem is not stupid enough to let that happen. And I feel confident enough that if I'm wrong on this one, feel free to remind me of it.
If they draft Carr! UNINSPIRING!
I gotta say if they draft Carr I am done too. Not to say I won't be a fan and watch on sundays but I don't think I'll be able to justify wasting so much time on a team. I will find a new "hobby". I just cannot fathom how men who get paid to do what they do could evaluate a prospect like him and call him 1st round talent.
Drafting Derek Carr is like drafting Weeden, just something to laugh at and another straw on the camel's back.
I may be "off my rocker", but what about A.J. McCarrin?... If he is a third round, or later, draft pick, he may be the "sleeper" pick, a la Brady, we have all been dreaming of... It's not like he is an unknown, but he rarely appears on anyone's list of top QB's. I watch a lot of college football, and have been impressed by his accomplishments within the pro set system Saban has incorporated at Alabama. McCarron has the experience, ability, and has shown the Leadership, the "it factor", if you will, that the Browns so desperately need in this draft.
No, drafting a 5'11 poor mans version of Michael Vick will get you laughed at when that QB destroys every bone in his body week 1.
Derek Carr, Blake Bortles and Johnny are all on the same tier for me. But I at least can appreciate the home run swing for Johnny than I can the other two.
I admit that I have no clue which of the top tier of QBs will be successful, and which won't. I am just going to put guarded trust in the front office for this year, as I did in the first year of the Banner/Lombardi regime.
It seems to me that all of the QB candidates in this draft have strengths, and all have weaknesses. None are the "perfect" draft candidate. If they were, we'd have no shot at them.
Of the 3 teams in front of us, an argument can be made that each could/should take a QB, if they feel that there is a guy worthy of being drafted that high.
The Texans certainly don't have a starting QB. The Rams have a guy with major question marks, who cannot stay healthy. The Jags have nothing. Then there is us. An argument can be made that all of the top 4 teams need, and should take a QB. (and maybe even 7 of the top 8 teams in the draft) However, there is still debate and conjecture as to whether any of the QB candidates are worth the top pick .... and/or whether teams in dire need of a QB will even look at one in the 1st round. That tells me that all of them have flaws. Which has the fewest flaws is open to debate, and which has flaws that can be compensated for in the WCO is within the realm of the front office and the coaches. Despite what some believe, I do not think that any of the QBs in this draft are sure things. All of the QBs in this draft can be seen as a bit of a crap shoot. I just hope that our guys are the one group who get it right. (no matter who they draft)
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If we draft him..................I'm done.
Turn the tape on? Really? You freaking suck w/your happy feet and inaccuracy issues.
LOL. Relax bubba. We ARE NOT taking Carr at 4. And not at 26 either.
We are so tight lipped about virtually everything going on right now. All of a sudden now everyone KNOWS we're in love with Carr? LMAO.
I hope Minny believes it too and moves up to 3 and snags him. We get our choice of the Top 3. And we best damn well take advantage of it and ride this out and see how it goes.
MUST take this chance at 4.
This is going to work out incredibly well for us. Houston MUST take Clowney. You don't pass on the #1 player in ANY draft when there's no QB the caliber of Manning or Luck staring you in the face.
The City of Houston will MELT DOWN the house if they pass on Clowney.
I'm seeing this going down like this.
1-Clowney
2-Robinson
3-Bortles
We get our choice of Teddy B and Manziel.
PERFECT.
I am going to break my TV if we take MACK and leave those 2 QB's on the board. 
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We get our choice of Teddy B and Manziel.
And take Carr. 
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We get our choice of Teddy B and Manziel.
And take Carr.
Oh don't be silly. We're ganna take Sammy Watkins...
Then take Carr at 26. 
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If we draft him..................I'm done.
I am kind of rooting for us to draft Carr now.
Well that's a not-so-subtle cheap shot, cfrs.... 
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I may be "off my rocker", but what about A.J. McCarrin?... If he is a third round, or later, draft pick, he may be the "sleeper" pick, a la Brady, we have all been dreaming of... It's not like he is an unknown, but he rarely appears on anyone's list of top QB's. I watch a lot of college football, and have been impressed by his accomplishments within the pro set system Saban has incorporated at Alabama. McCarron has the experience, ability, and has shown the Leadership, the "it factor", if you will, that the Browns so desperately need in this draft.
I've been thinking this also. However, I AM off my rocker
jmho... : )
#1- I personally don't like Carr because of his lack of.... "IN The Pocket Presence" !
#2- I Believe Pocket Presence,& ARM STRENGTH are #1 & #2 when playing today's game!
#3- I like 2 Qb's in this Draft who I think have 2 of the most important things you look at when evaluating QB play..
Zach Mettenburger an Johnny Manziel
I would take Manziel with the #4 pick an if Mettenburger is there at #26 I would draft him!
That give us 3 QB's to get it right!
Hoyer,Manziel,Mettenburger...1-2-3
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If we draft him..................I'm done.
Turn the tape on? Really? You freaking suck w/your happy feet and inaccuracy issues.
LOL. Relax bubba. We ARE NOT taking Carr at 4. And not at 26 either.
We are so tight lipped about virtually everything going on right now. All of a sudden now everyone KNOWS we're in love with Carr? LMAO.
I hope Minny believes it too and moves up to 3 and snags him. We get our choice of the Top 3. And we best damn well take advantage of it and ride this out and see how it goes.
MUST take this chance at 4.
This is going to work out incredibly well for us. Houston MUST take Clowney. You don't pass on the #1 player in ANY draft when there's no QB the caliber of Manning or Luck staring you in the face.
The City of Houston will MELT DOWN the house if they pass on Clowney.
I'm seeing this going down like this.
1-Clowney
2-Robinson
3-Bortles
We get our choice of Teddy B and Manziel.
PERFECT.
I am going to break my TV if we take MACK and leave those 2 QB's on the board.
well you are already halfway to a busted tv cause there is no way in hell we even consider Teddy at 4 and he has probably been taken off our boards all together at this point. He admitted to having trouble throwing a cold ball, wonder how many balls we got out of the cooler for him to throw.
I cant understand why people want a knuckleballer throwing in the afc north. I dont get it at all. He is smart he knows how to read a defense but balls get cold, and they get wet and the wind actually blows and you have to throw that cold wet ball in the wind and snow. you need a tight spiral and a low trajectory.
He is a finess knuckleballer that puts to much air under it. He is not an option at 4 and we would likely pass on him at 26 and 35. Garoppolo, Metlenberger will go before Bridgewater.
First of all let me explain. If they are going to sign a Quarterback, ( I mean draft one) then you might as well do it at #4.
What I'm trying to say is their decisions send messages.
Waiting till 26 to take Carr would say, This guy isn't 100% "The guy" because if he was, you jump on him at #4, NOT 26.
That! conclusion would be saying that if he is not " The Guy" then he's "Maybe" not as good as what you have now.
That! would be saying that he might not be better than Hoyer. And Hoyer has only 2 really good games in a Browns uniform, and that's It. Two!
Saying that you are going to add a guy, who your team can't decide is going to be better than Hoyer for sure and be " the guy" , which is what your are saying if you wait until #26, means also that this guy isn't as good as Weeden and Campbell would have been if they had stuck around.
Because I'm sure there's a pretty good chance Hoyer is going to nosedive when he faces other defenses and teams that gameplan against him for a whole season, and if Campbell and Weeden were still here they'd overtake him as a starter.
And if they don't take any qB, then you are saying you are going to go with Hoyer for a Whole season? Oh my freaking goodness that would be so bad.
1st, NO Browns starter stays healthy
2nd No Bronws backup stays healthy
3rd. He's a 3rd stringer to begin with.
Which is why, they have to take whomever they take, with their first pick at #4. Or they have to get a guy better than Hoyer on the team before the draft.
Or they have some plan to get some "magical star" out of the trash that is bandied about, post draft, pre season, in Qb's who change teams.
They put themselves in that situation when they cut Campbell, when they cut Weeden.
Or Maybe! Oh I'm wrong, Hoyer's stock is so great, why don't you try and shop him on the open market and see how much other teams want him.
And even if thats so, see points 1 and 2 above.
I'd feel better if the Browns take Carr at #4 than if they take him at #26! Then at least that is saying the Browns believe in him! AS STUPID, AS THAT SEEMS!!!!!
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youtube only shows you so much. Lombardi.....err i mean vers. LOL
It's ok to look at Carr's finer points or believe they have good film on him, but how is it possible to downplay his performance against USC or any good competition for that matter?? I don't compare him to Weeden like a lot on here may, but I DO think he's BQ 2.0.
Okay, let's say that he is Brady Quinn 2.0. Do you think that Brady Quinn is any better than Mark Sanchez? Do you think that Hoyer is better than them (yeah, I know the same is small), but I'm asking you to make a judgment by what you've seen. If you think that Hoyer is better, then look at how close those teams came to the Super Bowl with Mark Sanchez!
I recommend that you look at the 2009 and 2010 NY Jets teams. Take a look at who the DC was. Look at the defense's overall performance.
Now, look at the offense. Look at their running game. Compare it to what the Browns are trying to do. Still feel confident that the Browns will take a QB at #4? Still feel that it's necessary that they must take one at #4?
Take that into consideration when you listen to Pettine's comments about QBs, defenses and running the ball. He openly told you what his football philosophy is. I find it astonishing that people still think that he's trying to pull the wool over the eyes of people. He's telling you what he's doing and in my view, and that's it - just my view, he is confident enough that he's going to be able to stop other teams and is telling them so.
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I can't stand the guy. For the record, I don't like Manziel either, and I thought he was completely off the radar when Lombardi left. The more I keep thinking about it, though - especially with the effort to change the culture to one of urgency - I am beginning to believe Manziel may be our guy once again.
I don't think that Manziel is even in consideration. If I were to be completely honest, I think that the Browns having all these QBs in for visits and holding private workouts with them is the smokescreen. They are trying to pull attention away from who they're really targeting.
It would not surprise me to find out that the Browns make a trade during the draft (maybe even before) to pick up someone like Glennon from Tampa Bay for a late round draft choice, maybe for a 6th or even a 7th rounder. It's obvious to me that Lovie Smith doesn't want Glennon. He brought in Josh McCown to be the starter ( 
), at least for the off-season.
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I am going to break my TV if we take MACK and leave those 2 QB's on the board.
Browns, please take Mack at #4, then trade everything else just to move up to #5 and take Derek Carr. I want so many people that post here completely apoplectic! They should all gather in one place and have a live feed for the event.
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I'd feel better if the Browns take Carr at #4 than if they take him at #26! Then at least that is saying the Browns believe in him! AS STUPID, AS THAT SEEMS!!!!!
I don't think it's stupid at all, and you can swap that name out with Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater if you like and I'll still agree with it.
No thanks.I would rather build the rest of the team up,and wait for a better QB than Carr.
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If we draft him..................I'm done.
Turn the tape on? Really? You freaking suck w/your happy feet and inaccuracy issues.
LOL. Relax bubba. We ARE NOT taking Carr at 4. And not at 26 either.
We are so tight lipped about virtually everything going on right now. All of a sudden now everyone KNOWS we're in love with Carr? LMAO.
I hope Minny believes it too and moves up to 3 and snags him. We get our choice of the Top 3. And we best damn well take advantage of it and ride this out and see how it goes.
MUST take this chance at 4.
This is going to work out incredibly well for us. Houston MUST take Clowney. You don't pass on the #1 player in ANY draft when there's no QB the caliber of Manning or Luck staring you in the face.
The City of Houston will MELT DOWN the house if they pass on Clowney.
I'm seeing this going down like this.
1-Clowney
2-Robinson
3-Bortles
We get our choice of Teddy B and Manziel.
PERFECT.
I am going to break my TV if we take MACK and leave those 2 QB's on the board.
well you are already halfway to a busted tv cause there is no way in hell we even consider Teddy at 4 and he has probably been taken off our boards all together at this point. He admitted to having trouble throwing a cold ball, wonder how many balls we got out of the cooler for him to throw.
I cant understand why people want a knuckleballer throwing in the afc north. I dont get it at all. He is smart he knows how to read a defense but balls get cold, and they get wet and the wind actually blows and you have to throw that cold wet ball in the wind and snow. you need a tight spiral and a low trajectory.
He is a finess knuckleballer that puts to much air under it. He is not an option at 4 and we would likely pass on him at 26 and 35. Garoppolo, Metlenberger will go before Bridgewater.
OK, enough with the stupid...he can't play in Cleveland weather excuse. Did you realize Louisville weather is almost identical to Cleveland weather. The Browns do not play in a torrential down pour and/or -10 degree and/or 3 foot of snow blizzards every weekend.
IF they manage to get a home playoff game, the odds of him playing in snow goes up, but it DOES snow in Louisville.
Now, granted the weather off of Lake Erie is not the best in the country, but it is not as if he played in College Station Texas and is now being asked to throw an ice ball all season....
And with that example, I am a huge Manziel fan...
These are athletes capable of playing professional football. Cleveland's weather is not going to be their downfall on their path to the HOF. They are either going to have it or they are not...It won't have to do with the weather.
I certainly hope "many in football" are wrong, because while Carr looks like a world-beater when throwing passes in drills, he looks like Mark Sanchez when there are actually players playing defense against him.
Couch, Frye, Quinn, McCoy, Weeden...I've liked none of them and view Carr in the same ilk.
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OK, enough with the stupid...he can't play in Cleveland weather excuse. Did you realize Louisville weather is almost identical to Cleveland weather.
You didn't know that Fresno, California had much worse weather than Louisville, Kentucky?
It's no surprise to me that many who liked Timid, BQ, and Weeden also like Carr.
Does Mary K like Carr, because if she does...everyone should run.
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OK, enough with the stupid...he can't play in Cleveland weather excuse. Did you realize Louisville weather is almost identical to Cleveland weather.
You didn't know that Fresno, California had much worse weather than Louisville, Kentucky?
I'm sorry, did Teddy Bridgewater spend extended time playing in Fresno CA? The situation being referenced is Bridgewater not being able to play in Cleveland because of the weather...Utterly ridiculous.
{Edit:} Sorry, must be getting late, I reread that and just realized the sarcasm...I usually catch it faster than that..
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I certainly hope "many in football" are wrong, because while Carr looks like a world-beater when throwing passes in drills, he looks like Mark Sanchez when there are actually players playing defense against him.
Couch, Frye, Quinn, McCoy, Weeden...I've liked none of them and view Carr in the same ilk.
I don't know...I hadn't paid much attention to him but from what I have seen it looks like he throws just fine. Really fine for that matter. I saw him pressured and he wasn't falling apart in the clips I saw.....but you guys know more about it than I.
I really hope this is talking heads. Just hearing this drums up the "here we go again" theme in my head.
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I certainly hope "many in football" are wrong, because while Carr looks like a world-beater when throwing passes in drills, he looks like Mark Sanchez when there are actually players playing defense against him.
Couch, Frye, Quinn, McCoy, Weeden...I've liked none of them and view Carr in the same ilk.
I don't know...I hadn't paid much attention to him but from what I have seen it looks like he throws just fine. Really fine for that matter. I saw him pressured and he wasn't falling apart in the clips I saw.....but you guys know more about it than I.
I agree. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, which I think is what's going on here.
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I certainly hope "many in football" are wrong, because while Carr looks like a world-beater when throwing passes in drills, he looks like Mark Sanchez when there are actually players playing defense against him.
Couch, Frye, Quinn, McCoy, Weeden...I've liked none of them and view Carr in the same ilk.
I don't know...I hadn't paid much attention to him but from what I have seen it looks like he throws just fine. Really fine for that matter. I saw him pressured and he wasn't falling apart in the clips I saw.....but you guys know more about it than I.
I agree. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, which I think is what's going on here.
Possibly so. Too bad that first impressions carry such weight. If your first impression of Teddy was his pro day, you would be laughing as you left half way through the session.
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Does Mary K like Carr, because if she does...everyone should run.
She actually had the browns drafting him at 4 in a mock draft that espn.com or nfl.com was doing with reporters from each teams city. insane.
I've heard that in more than one place...
I really hope it isnt the case.
steve, I watched the guy all stinking year. And you know I have. I kept posting updates on all the qbs I watched throughout the year.
I liked him at first. He has good size. Good arm. His coaches said he is smart. He is vocal. But, once I saw him face pressure, I changed my mind.
It was NOT a first impression.
Mary Kay also had us drafting G. Smith last year in round one.
OK, yes, you're right. It was not a first impression. It was just from one game, though, if I'm reading your posts correctly.
12/19 (Two days before the Bowl)
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1101528Quote:
Carr looked good in that game vs. Fales.
I really worry about him being like his brother, though. A lot of people put all the blame on David Carr's OL, and they were bad, but the elder Carr couldn't read coverages and held the ball way too long. Very similar problems that Timid had and Weeden has. There are rumblings that the younger Carr suffers from the same issue.
I can't stand a QB who holds the ball too long. They make their lines look bad. They make their receivers look bad. They alienate teammates because the press and fans blame the OL for poor protection and the receivers for not getting open. While Carr has some very good skills, I really worry about his ability to read coverages.
In fact, that is my concern w/almost every single QB that is still in college. That doesn't mean they can't read coverages, it's just they haven't been asked to do so very often. The top two guys who have read coverages are probably Bridgewater and Bortles. I feel they are the safest guys. The big dude at LSU---Mettenberger--also reads coverages, but I think that guy is an injury waiting to happen.
It's going to be a tough call for our FO on how to solve this problem. Lot's of risky decisions.
12/15
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1100138
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Another guy..........and I wrote about him on Thanksgiving weekend is David Fales from San Jose State. I watched the game [I think it was that Friday night after Turkey day] to watch more of Carr. While Carr played well, he still made some of the mistakes his brother was infamous for.......meaning he didn't always show poise in the pocket and held it too long. Carr was better than I thought, but I absolutely despise QBs who hold the ball too long---and so do their offensive linemen.
12/8
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1098020
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One of the reasons I took so long to take the younger Carr seriously was because how putrid I thought his brother was.
I know he took a lot of sacks and I heard all the excuses that I heard for Timid and Weeden about how his OL was horrible.
I don't think he played behind a good OL. They were bad. However, the guy did the same thing Timid and Weeden did. He held the ball too long because he could not read coverages.
Some will argue that Carr was forever ruined because of the early beatings, but I think the fact that he sucked wherever he went is further proof of my contention that the guy could not read coverages and thus was relegated to a journeyman that couldn't win a starting job anywhere.
12/4
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1097204
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--I like Carr's skill set, but his brother scares me. They are similar qbs. David Carr always held the ball too long. He had Timid Couch and Brandon Weeden disease. People wanna blame their lines. I blame slow-witted Qbs.
12/3
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1096830
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I posted this somewhere else, but I guess it fits better here since you guys are talking about Fales and Carr.
Wow. Two pretty good QBs.
I watched this game because I wanted to see more of Carr. I admit I came away impressed. I think I might have to take back some of my negative comments. Here is what I saw:
--Excellent arm strength
--Very good accuracy
--Quick release
--Delivered the ball on-time for the most part
--Decent athlete
--Got a lot of time to throw, hard to judge how he deals w/pressure
--Zipped the ball and showed good touch on other throws
--Coach on the field
Your concerns about him after one game (within mostly praise) was that he held the ball too long. That turned into over time (with only referencing the same game over and over) that his brother can't read coverages, which turned into you think he might not be able to read read coverages, to he can't read coverages.
Then... the USC game happened. After starting the game off beautifully, actually, he injures his shoulder in the first quarter, but stays in to play the whole game. Then, *this* is your opinion.
12/23
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1102919
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I think the biggest differences [and they are huge] between Bridgewater and Carr are that Carr panics under pressure and he doesn't read defenses and coverages well. Meanwhile, Teddy seems to excel in those areas.
12/22
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1102223
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I want no part of Carr. If we draft him, I will make Dj look a positive poster in terms of what I think about our FO.
Carr finally faced a defense w/some talent on it. You could visibly see how nervous he was. He was scared to death of the pass rush and it wasn't even that fierce. The announcers kept talking about the pass rush but it was less severe than what the kid will see in the NFL.
Some notes:
--Terrible footwork in terms of his mechanics. He kept getting his feet switched around, ala Timid back in the day. You aren't going to be accurate when you throw w/your right foot in front of your left.
--Speaking of accuracy, he missed three wide open WR deep. No one near them. Just plain out missed them. Several other throws were behind the receivers. Others were high. Some low. Terrible accuracy.
--Pocket presence was awful. He did not buy time in the pocket. He panicked at the snap. No awareness of exactly where defenders were. Did not buy time in the pocket.
--Reading coverages? Hard to tell because he fired it so quick because he was panicking on almost every single throw.
--Reading defenses? He threw that stupid bubble screen even when USC put 3 to 4 guys out there.
Conclusion: No way would I want this kid on our team. I don't care if he was available in the 3rd round, 5th round, or even the 7th. He is going to be one of those guys that makes his teammates look worse and will be a coach killer.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1102239
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My biggest issue w/Carr: He played scared. I would never want that in a QB. Never.
12/28
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1103698
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That is an euphemism for saying he played scared.
I am not kidding you guys about this: I would not draft Carr under any circumstances. You can't win w/guys like that. Other positions, such as the OL and receivers take the blame for them. Coordinators take more blame. Head coaches take the blame. We have seen this before.
You never want your leader on the field to be soft. I will be very upset if the Browns draft Carr. That move will be akin to us drafting Timid. They will have to stick w/the guy for several years. It will set this franchise back years.
Which of course, by January, became this...
1/9
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1108812
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Carr is a wuss, just like his brother. Panics at the first sign of pressure. Gets happy feet. Will take a lot of sacks and will be inaccurate in the pros. I wouldn't even draft that guy. But yeah..........he has a great arm and great size.
1/21
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1112906
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I would not touch him w/a ten foot pole.
The guy gets too nervous when pressured, His footwork falls apart and he becomes wildly inaccurate. He is not a gamer. He is not a leader. He is a wuss.
Reminds me of Timid and his brother. No thanks.
1/23
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1113337
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Carr: I don't like a guy who looks scared in the pocket. Can't win w/a guy like that.
So, yes. You are right. It's not your first impression. It is actually very different than your first impression. But it is based off of one game (in which he played more than three quarters of it injured, showing what a "wuss" he is) and what you remember about his brother.
You are certainly entitled to form your opinion on that, and it doesn't make it any less valid than mine and I know you have watched a lot of games from different QBs this year. But try to not lose perspective on what you're judging him based off of.
I just figured out the
main reason we shouldn't draft Carr..
No sir.
Derek Carr, Browns to continue pre-draft flirtations in ClevelandBY DAVID WHITE
The Fresno BeeApril 21, 2014
Former Fresno State quarterback Derek Carr is considered by most to be first-round pick material. The Cleveland Browns need a quarterback and own two first-round picks.
This week, the Browns will get another chance to see if Carr is their perfect match.
Carr will travel to Cleveland this week to meet with the Browns at their team facility, according to a source familiar with the scheduled meeting. This comes three weeks after Browns coaches and officials flew out to Fresno State for a private workout and interviews with Carr.
Cleveland clearly needs a quarterback and can use either the No. 4 or No. 26 overall picks in the first round to select a franchise arm during the NFL Draft on May 8-10.
The Browns are also taking hard looks at other quarterbacks in the draft, including Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel. If they are going above and beyond due diligence to do so, it's understandable. They've yet to get the quarterback position mastered since the NFL returned to Cleveland in 1999.
Since then, the Browns have drafted three quarterbacks in the first round: Tim Couch (No. 1 in 1999), Brady Quinn (No. 22 in 2007) and Brandon Weeden (No. 22 in 2012), which goes a long ways toward explaining their 13 losing seasons in 15 years.
As far as franchise quarterbacks go, Carr has impressed NFL teams in the interview room throughout the draft process. He is consistently rated as the best pro-style quarterback in the class, and his arm strength is second to none.
That said, he is also consistently rated by draft pundits as the fourth-best prospect in a quarterback class led by Bridgewater, Manziel and Blake Bortles. Carr has bristled at the notion, saying recently on NFL Network that he considers himself the top quarterback prospect in the draft.
"I know what teams are telling me in these meetings, so I feel very good about where I'm at," Carr said last month.
Carr has also had visits to Jacksonville, Tampa Bay and Tennessee, along with extensive interviews in Fresno with the Raiders and Vikings.
If he is the guy....take him at #4. Don't fool around and wait for #26 or trading up at some point. If we want to trade up, trade up for one of the corners.
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If he is the guy....take him at #4. Don't fool around and wait for #26 or trading up at some point. If we want to trade up, trade up for one of the corners.
While I have my concerns about him, I agree, if he's the guy, don't be stupid, just take him.
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if he's the guy, don't be stupid, just take him.
What's the difference? Hey-OHHH!!!
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If he is the guy....take him at #4. Don't fool around and wait for #26 or trading up at some point. If we want to trade up, trade up for one of the corners.
While I have my concerns about him, I agree, if he's the guy, don't be stupid, just take him.
Goes back to my argument in the other topic. If you don't like Carr at 4, do not even think of taking him at 26...
I like Carr. I don't know about first round material though. He looks the part. He has a nice arm, he seems very smart. I don't care what his brother's career looked like, if anything that may benefit him. There should not be one thing in his career that surprises him. I'm sure he has heard all about it.
I have no problems with the Browns taking him at 4, if they love him. Says to me that they did their homework and found their guy. That's more important to me than seeing them draft the guy I want. I want them to get 100% behind one of these guys so we can move forward.
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If he is the guy....take him at #4. Don't fool around and wait for #26 or trading up at some point.
I agree. If he is the guy that the powers that be decide is the right guy for this team, then don't screw around. If he is a franchise level QV, then there is no sense hanging around and hoping that he'll still be there at 26. (and I am not advocating whether or not he is a guy we should take, or not .....)
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If he is the guy....take him at #4. Don't fool around and wait for #26 or trading up at some point.
I agree. If he is the guy that the powers that be decide is the right guy for this team, then don't screw around. If he is a franchise level QV, then there is no sense hanging around and hoping that he'll still be there at 26. (and I am not advocating whether or not he is a guy we should take, or not .....)
I'll take this one further, if you identify your guy..whether it be Carr or any other QB, we have the ammunition right now to move up and get him. If your convictions are he is the one, go get him. Don't pray no one else on the staff of 31 other franchises feel the same way you do, only to lose him to one of the 3 picks in front of you.
Only if you are convinced there is little difference between 2-3 QBs should you pass on moving up to get him. If you are convinced any of them are convincing enough, don't take one no matter what happens at the 3 picks before you...
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Does Mary K like Carr, because if she does...everyone should run.
She actually had the browns drafting him at 4 in a mock draft that espn.com or nfl.com was doing with reporters from each teams city. insane.
I hope all this carr love is just a smoke screen. imo that the "s" on his shirt does not stand for superman. I think it stands for sucks.
jc
This is going to be a little off topic...sort of....But I was wondering what thought people had about Savage out of Pitt. ( I just haven't seen his name in any of the QB discussions)
They say he could have the best arm in this draft.....which is what the hype over Carr is...
Savage has the size at 6'-4" and 228#
Looking at the little tape he had I saw a guy who did a great job in the pocket as a DLineman was coming right on top of him and he just made his throw right in the face of the rush.
He is not perfect by any means...two time transfer...the first time due to some immaturity at Rutgers. He started as a true freshman. Four games into his sophomore season he got hurt...lost his job to the replacement...he was upset about that and transferred to Arizona...Sat out that year...and Stoops is fired...in comes Rich Rodriguez who likes ultra mobile spread option QB's....So he transferred to Pitt for a better Offensive system. The interviews say he handles the transfer issue incredibly well.
He also stares down his receivers some. and while not considered a mobile QB he can run and is far better than watching Bernie try to scramble...LOL
They say he has improved greatly every year...
As far as QB's in this draft...I like Bridgewater LATE (but not at 4), I like Garrapolo and Mettenberger...Carr is a quandary to me...I don't dislike him, but I am not in love with him either...he does throw a pretty ball tho...And I am starting to like this Savage kid...
So I was really wondering if anyone watched the kid play, has any opinion on him, or has any comments concerning him...
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13. Tom Savage, Pittsburgh 6'4", 230# Round: 6
Possesses good arm strength. Decent accuracy at mid range, good accuracy short from the pocket, but misses badly deep. Will go through progressions but doesn't read zone coverage well. Needs to make quicker decisions. Would benefit by tightening up his footwork. Highly inconsistent, as he will follow a beautiful, accurate throw with an awful one. Mediocre athleticism. Has ball security issues that seem to stem from focus issues. Difficult to evaluate since he is under a lot of pressure behind a poor offensive line. (vs. Notre Dame, Florida State, Miami, North Carolina)
I dont think Manziel nor Carr make it out of the top 10. If you want either of those better take them at 4.
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13. Tom Savage, Pittsburgh 6'4", 230# Round: 6
Possesses good arm strength. Decent accuracy at mid range, good accuracy short from the pocket, but misses badly deep. Will go through progressions but doesn't read zone coverage well. Needs to make quicker decisions. Would benefit by tightening up his footwork. Highly inconsistent, as he will follow a beautiful, accurate throw with an awful one. Mµdiocre athleticism. Has ball security issues that seem to stem from focus issues. Difficult to evaluate since he is under a lot of pressure behind a poor offensive line. (vs. Notre Dame, Florida State, Miami, North Carolina)
From what I have seen, I am pretty much in agreement. I would add:
1 - he has a very live arm. The ball really has some zip on it.
2 - He has this ine¨plicable desire to throw into triple coverage. Watched several games and there are an inordinate number of throws into triple coverage. Not even double coverage but truly triple coverage.
So isn't it draft time yet? What 16 days? enough already...
Manziel at 4...Hoyer starts and keeps his job cause he kicks butt. and we take Savage in the 5th round.
Are you ready for some Football!
I saw that too...
Wonder if it was the read or just hey this is what I wanna try.
Kid throws it well...I've seen his stock skyrocket in the last week...in that I've seen him go as early as the 2nd in some mocks. To Minnesota.
I really don't know why know one is LOOKING at Mettenburger!
Think about his Pocket Presence ALONE..
His ARM Strength...
And MOST of All Able to READ DEFENSES!!!
We haven't even brought him in for a LOOK!
1a Zach Mettenburger QB LSU
1b bpa @ cb
2 Jarvis Landry WR LSU
Every pick from here on out BPA for NEED!!!
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I really don't know why know one is LOOKING at Mettenburger!
Think about his Pocket Presence ALONE..
His ARM Strength...
And MOST of All Able to READ DEFENSES!!!
We haven't even brought him in for a LOOK!
1a Zach Mettenburger QB LSU
1b bpa @ cb
2 Jarvis Landry WR LSU
Every pick from here on out BPA for NEED!!!
Wait, what. . .
You sure went though a lot of work to prove something. Not sure what it was? But, good effort.
I am actually thankful you posted all of those posts. It might help educate other people. Thanks.
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2 - He has this inexplicable desire to throw into triple coverage. Watched several games and there are an inordinate number of throws into triple coverage. Not even double coverage but truly triple coverage
If your goal was to word that in a way to get audible laughter, you succeeded. 
Laughter was not my intent. Hopefully it got my point across though.
My issue with Mettenberger is that he is a poor decision maker. Though unlike Savage who has the propensity to favor the triple covered receiver, Mettenberger only throws to the WR being double covered, ignoring the wide open WR on the other side of the field.
Not to mention that he is an erratic thrower and even worse.................he stands still in the pocket w/his front leg planted firmly in the turf.............which will lead to serious knee injuries.
j/c
Carr scares me a lot. I just don't see the quick decision making. I see him throwing a lot of screens that inflate his stats.
He sucked in the USC game, and now a couple weeks before the draft it comes out he was injured-- yeah, not buying it.
Man, if Carr is the guy, I sure hope they have done their homework on him.
I am strongly in favor of drafting two QB's- both early. One in the first and come back in the 3rd and take another. If these QB's all have flaws, and we have the extra picks- take a few shots and get it right. I would love to see Murray or McCarron in the third.
It comes out a couple weeks before the draft? It was obvious in the game. He got hurt on a hit by George Uko that sent his shoulder into the ground funny in the first quarter on a play that was nullified by a penalty.
Personally I think the single most important thing for a QB is his head. Not smarts or wonderlic per se but coverage reading, quick decision making, accurate judgement and ability to handle pressure. Everything else comes after that. What foot he throws off of, accuracy, arm strength, measurements....everything. None of it matters if the head isn't right. Not that the other stuff isn't also important but the head stuff is the what everything else is built on. It's why Russel Wilson plays above his physical talents and why Weeden does not. Whenever I read "can't read defenses" or skittish or holds onto the ball too long, regularly throws into risky coverage or the like it's the first and most serious devaluation in my mind. I'm doubtful that ever changes or is really at all coachable. I'm not a coach so I don't really know but those kinds of things I generally think of as being the kind of traits you're either born with or aren't. If I was GM with some serious financial resources I'd put a lot of energy into figuring out ways of testing and measuring those kinds of mental functions in empirical ways.
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j/c
Carr scares me a lot. I just don't see the quick decision making. I see him throwing a lot of screens that inflate his stats.
He sucked in the USC game, and now a couple weeks before the draft it comes out he was injured-- yeah, not buying it.
Man, if Carr is the guy, I sure hope they have done their homework on him.
I am strongly in favor of drafting two QB's- both early. One in the first and come back in the 3rd and take another. If these QB's all have flaws, and we have the extra picks- take a few shots and get it right. I would love to see Murray or McCarron in the third.
I'd like to see them draft two QB's also.
Should the Browns draft two QB's?
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Personally I think the single most important thing for a QB is his head. Not smarts or wonderlic per se but coverage reading, quick decision making, accurate judgement and ability to handle pressure. Everything else comes after that. What foot he throws off of, accuracy, arm strength, measurements....everything. None of it matters if the head isn't right. Not that the other stuff isn't also important but the head stuff is the what everything else is built on.
I have a hard time arguing this point.
I used to think stupidity is bliss... but there is a comprehension level there that needs to happen. QB's need to be very cerebral and it's not just book smart either. There is logic and understanding concepts as they develop. It's also the wits to adjust on the fly. Your "street smarts" if you will.
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2 - He has this inexplicable desire to throw into triple coverage. Watched several games and there are an inordinate number of throws into triple coverage. Not even double coverage but truly triple coverage.
When you are going to enter the draft ... if you are not on the radar. you get yourself on the radar.
I was very adamant, earlier, about the Browns getting 2 QBs... but now I'd like to modify that a little.
It depends on who we grab first. If we get Bortles (a project QB taken high) then I don't want another project QB (what all the other QBs are outside of the top 3) taken lower in the draft. No thank you for 2 projects at the QB position in one draft.
If we take Bridgewater and even Manziel (you can, at least, make the argument that he's not a project), then you take 2 QBs.
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It comes out a couple weeks before the draft? It was obvious in the game. He got hurt on a hit by George Uko that sent his shoulder into the ground funny in the first quarter on a play that was nullified by a penalty.
funny, i don't really recall him being looked at by the training staff???? Anybody else recall that??? The only thing i remember is how poorly he played against a top tier defense (and USC was down last year).
If they go Carr, i just hope they have done their homework- i have some serious doubts about him. But hey, i'm just an arm chair qb, so what do i know.
It's a lame excuse. He was overthrowing guys by a mile right off the bat. Check out his footwork. The guy played scared.
Yea its a lame ass excuse almost as bad as forgetting to wear your glove lol.
I agree. Not wearing the glove was a lame ass excuse.
On the other, search all you want and try and find even one time I used that excuse.
Dude, it was just a joke. Talking football is supposed to be enjoyment. if the browns take the guys you want, hope you are right. If they take the guys you dont want, hope you are wrong. Hell if they take someone i actually want in the first, that will be a first lol.
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Hell if they take someone i actually want in the first, that will be a first lol.
Yea, I could count the times on one hand they have actually taken the guys that I wanted or thought they would take over the last 10 years... but then again we haven't been very good, so maybe I was right. 
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It comes out a couple weeks before the draft? It was obvious in the game. He got hurt on a hit by George Uko that sent his shoulder into the ground funny in the first quarter on a play that was nullified by a penalty.
funny, i don't really recall him being looked at by the training staff???? Anybody else recall that??? The only thing i remember is how poorly he played against a top tier defense (and USC was down last year).
If they go Carr, i just hope they have done their homework- i have some serious doubts about him. But hey, i'm just an arm chair qb, so what do i know.
Just watch the clip on draftbreakdown.com, they kept that image of him getting up off the ground afterwards in the video. He was seen messing with his shoulder a couple more times in the broadcast (not included in the cut-up) including just before halftime. It's not something I just made up.
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It's a lame excuse. He was overthrowing guys by a mile right off the bat. Check out his footwork. The guy played scared.
Hmm, right off the bat (first play of the game) he dropped a perfect teardrop over Davante Adams' shoulder after seeing the blitz coming from the right pre-snap. He didn't miss any of those three throws deep until after he hurt his shoulder. He was still accurate with the hard throws after he was banged up but completely lost his touch after that.
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I certainly hope "many in football" are wrong, because while Carr looks like a world-beater when throwing passes in drills, he looks like Mark Sanchez when there are actually players playing defense against him.
Couch, Frye, Quinn, McCoy, Weeden...I've liked none of them and view Carr in the same ilk.
I don't know...I hadn't paid much attention to him but from what I have seen it looks like he throws just fine. Really fine for that matter. I saw him pressured and he wasn't falling apart in the clips I saw.....but you guys know more about it than I.
I agree. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, which I think is what's going on here.
I can assure you that isn't the case, at least as it pertains to my views of Carr.
His 2012 games showed a guy who was a one-read-and-throw QB who never took a snap from under center and panicked under pressure. More critical are his 2013 games, so that's what I've been watching in recent months. So what did I see?
I saw a guy in 2013 that was a one-read-and-throw QB who panicked under pressure. Often when he wasn't under pressure he'd make throws right into coverage. To me that suggests a mind that cannot process information quickly enough, and QB's who cannot process information quickly enough don't make it in the NFL, aka Brandon Weeden.
IMHO Carr is a 3rd round QB with 1st round tools who'll take several years to show whether or not he's going to be an NFL-level passer. That isn't something I want in the 1st round because we all know it's just a very short matter of time before a 1st round QB is thrown into the mix.
Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel are in a tier than Carr. I hope this regime doesn't make the same mistake as the last one, reaching for a developmental QB in the 1st when the player isn't in that class.
What puts Bortles in that top tier?
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What puts Bortles in that top tier?
^^^^This^^^^
I don't see Bortles as anything different than Carr and Savage. They will all be projects.
For that matter, an offense will have to be developed for Manziel, simply because he is so much different than anyone else in this draft. (or any other draft for that matter)
Bortles has the highest upside, that's why they call them prospects.
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Bortles has the highest upside, that's why they call them prospects.
Could anyone elaborate on this with some content?
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Bortles has the highest upside, that's why they call them prospects.
Could anyone elaborate on this with some content?
He's big. Duh.
average at best arm with the wind blowing with him, poor accuracy to all levels, often throws from the hip with a windup, if the ball is wet he is a nightmare to watch. I still dont see why he is considered a first.
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I still dont see why he is considered a first.
See the answer above.
He is mobile, he is 6-5 230 (like it or not, it matters), he goes through his progressions well, he isn't afraid to stand in there and take hits, he improved each season.
His accuracy isn't great, his arm is good but not elite.
He has very high upside. A lot of the NFL draft is projecting how guys will do on the next level. It's the reason they have the combine.
I'm not his biggest fan, but he is a nice prospect.
How often does a guy's arm strength and accuracy improve once he is in the NFL?
Arm Strength is over stated, we both know that. Accuracy is a concern, even more so, ball placement.
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Accuracy is a concern, even more so, ball placement.
and decision-making. and pre-snap awareness. and long windup on any passes with velocity (batted balls, safety pass deflections)
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He is mobile, he is 6-5 230 (like it or not, it matters), he goes through his progressions well, he isn't afraid to stand in there and take hits, he improved each season.
His accuracy isn't great, his arm is good but not elite.
He has very high upside. A lot of the NFL draft is projecting how guys will do on the next level. It's the reason they have the combine.
I'm not his biggest fan, but he is a nice prospect.
While I agree with most of what you wrote as I believe you are trying to be honest I gotta call bull on his ability to go through his progressions and his improving every season as strengths.
He only started 2 seasons and while his YPA improved as it should he actually threw more picks and the exact same TD. If you want to say he was able to push the ball down the field more I can accept that but I just want to point out that when a prospect is said to have improved each season(which is an incredibly significant indicator of NFL success among others) it is dramatic and across the board. Like I said no bias I just want truth in discussion.
While I offer no stats to prove he is anything less than average when it comes to going through his progressions I see rather commonly Bortles is sighted as staring down his first read and forcing passes. Tape backs that. Compared to other top QB prospects of the last 10 years he is very lacking in the mental maturation from a QB standpoint. With his slightly above average velocity they are picks in the NFL. While he is not atrocious it is the greatest reason he is seen as a project.
As far as my own 2 cents IMO These two indicators are some of the most common among busts. Everyone wants the guys who's 6'5 230 but the speed of the signals in the brain are much more important. Not to say he can't but history says it's at minimum not likely and there is no way to know until he plays. That doesn't give me much confidence in betting my job on a savior if Im an NFL GM.
when I watched him I definitely saw him check more than one target on more than one occasion. I do think that's something he has the ability to do, and frankly the only reason i moved him up as a 2nd-round area guy instead of a third.
JMO.
Good post. You were due for one. J/K brother.
That's one of the reasons I like Bridgewater. I think he lacks some of that leadership quality you want to see in a QB, but man, when he was sitting down with Gruden, breaking down coverages, I was amazed at his intelligence. I really like this dude.
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How often does a guy's arm strength and accuracy improve once he is in the NFL?
If you are inaccurate in college, you will be inaccurate as a pro. the only area where accuracy will actually improve is in deep ball accuracy just because the arms gets stronger. Arm strength improves for everyone as they mature but how much it improves depends of size and frame and basic genetics.
So why don't you like Bridgewater then?
I'm torn on any QB in this class by now. I guess I let the media blah get to me, but I still do like Bortles and think he gets called out for some stuff pretty much any QB in this class not named Teddy B. has issues with too.
How can anyone criticize him for making bad reads but then turn around and praise Manziel for his stupid 5+ seconds chicken runnings. I still think he got lucky he had an NFL caliber OL protecting his ass and a mommoth top 15 WR catching his stupid hero hail marys. In the NFL vs NFL game, I expect him to be a TO machine and the O/U when he hits the IR is 100 snaps. I don't see a pass first QB, sorry. He lives off his legs, like Kaep, but he doesn't have Kaep's body and upside as a passer. The biggest "argument" for Manziel has become "he's special" or "you got to tailor your Offense to him, because he's so unique". To me this means he's a limited player and that stuff won't fly long term, even if they give him a tailor made Offense. It WILL get figured out by the NFL. Sooner or later a QB in the NFL has to make good throws to win games, that's their job description at the end of the day and Manziel simply lacks too many things as a passer. He actually reminds me a lot of Hoyer with better wheels...limited, but gutsy, not afraid to throw it up for grabs. When a guy like Bortles does this, he made a bad read, when Manziel does it, it's Johnny special. I call big time BS. It's the same issue for both, just perception and wishful thinking clouding it
He doesnt put the spin on the ball to be effective when the weather turns. I think he will be another Andy Dalton, when the weather picks up he is gonna struggle. He has struggled in games with a wet ball and he says he has trouble gripping a cold ball. I just have major reservations when it comes to Bridgewater. Those wounded ducks he got away with are pick sixes at the here.
As for Bortles, I see ordinary and Ordinary you can get undrafted. The only thing special with Bortles is size. If you want me to take you in the first, show me something special.
I don't know if Bortles has the highest upside, but he has come a long, long way in a short period of time. He wasn't on hardly anyone's radar last year. Who knew about him 2-3 years ago? I remember springing him on you guys early this year, before the national media did.
He skyrocketed up the charts because of his performance. Does that help?
Here is another thing. Unlike a guy like Carr, Bortles thrives under pressure. He makes big plays at the end of games to win games. He's clutch. That is pretty impressive.
I think he he is still growing as a qb. He needs to learn how to look off the safety a lot better. He needs to read coverages better. He has a couple of flaws in his foot placement at times.
Again, I am not saying he has the highest upside, but I think there are reasons to say he will keep improving.
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As for Bortles, I see ordinary and Ordinary you can get undrafted. The only thing special with Bortles is size. If you want me to take you in the first, show me something special.
Man, we evaluate QBs so differently.
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What puts Bortles in that top tier?
Clearly subjective on my part, obviously, but even though I don't necessarily care for Bortles' arm in some ways, I do think he has a natural feel that Carr doesn't have. There aren't stats which can quantify that statement. It's an eye-ball test thing. He appears to have more feel in the pocket, when to escape and how, and he appears to not have the blind-hickups that Carr has.
Now is that something worth a round or two? It is to me. I don't believe his mind works well enough to be a 1st rounder, making him a developmental guy...just like Weeden was.
Every single QB in the NFL has most of, if not all, the tools necessary to be good in the league. It's their mind that makes the difference, and his doesn't appear to process information in a requisite manner.
Dawglover...I'm watchin' you, Foo! 
I honestly think if Bortles had stayed in college one more year, he would of been worth a Top 5 pick next year, and been able to start right away...
I wouldn't take him before the 26th pick. And I'd almost make him sit a year.
Same thing with Carr, who I'd rather take at 35 if I had to take him.. Anyone who drafts him in the Top 10 is asking for trouble IMO.
I heard one of the "experts" on the radio yesterday, I think it was Hasselbeck, say that he thought a good NFL comparison for Bridgewater was Alex Smith... I can see that.
Bortles reminds me of Big Ben as far as his potential goes.
jmho
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So isn't it draft time yet? What 16 days? enough already...
Manziel at 4...Hoyer starts and keeps his job cause he kicks butt. and we take Savage in the 5th round.
Are you ready for some Football!
Tab, you think Manziel will be there at 4? Personally i think either the Texans will take him first overall or the jags will take him at 3. NOW...the texans trade with atlanta like some think they will then yes, he could very well be there at 4....it would depend on what the jags do at 3...as they would probably have their choice of manziel or bortals
Slick this draft is maybe the BIGGEST unknown in the top 5 I have ever seen - since 2001 I've been really educated on drafts due to the INTERNET discovered by me then. You got guys who could go overall #1 or not in the first round at all? You got a position player that is a freak but his film really is not that good. So there is a question if his drive n heart is there. You got a couple of players that had a good last year but were not dominant throughout their college careers - Once again you got two of the safest picks being Offensive Tackles. Around this time before the draft you got just about the entire top 10 the same with all the mocks out there. possibly a change here n there with each other. NOT THIS YEAR.
So who knows. Manziel...I've said it before. IN THE HISTORY of the modern era of football. A QB under six feet has never been drafted in the first round. I like him. I would love him at 4 but I do believe in History too. So I'm confused as heck on what will happen. Teddy was the overall number one pick in September 2013 December 2013 January 2014 Feb. 2014...and now he's not going to go in the FIRST ROUND? 
Without Injury, Drugs, Arrest involved. Just too many BOZOS involved and have to tweet and blog something 24/7. Making all the GMs jobs easier with the pre-draft Smoke if you ask me
jmho...when in doubt Go see the draft Mocks after the Bowl games
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So who knows. Manziel...I've said it before. IN THE HISTORY of the modern era of football. A QB under six feet has never been drafted in the first round. I like him. I would love him at 4 but I do believe in History too. So I'm confused as heck on what will happen.
Keeping in mind that in the history of the modern era of the NFL it has never been more of a passers league, it has never been more of a read-option league, and the rules have never been nearly as favorable towards protecting receivers and QB's. Then you have the rings now owned by Brees and Wilson, so when one combines all those factors, being taller than 6' doesn't mean what it used to.
Manziel is highly unlikely to drop into the 2nd round, just as I think it's nearly impossible that Bridgewater will as well.
Having said all that and while knowing how badly we need a future QB, I'm not of the opinion that we should reach for a QB with our first pick. We can work with our extra picks in combination with the 26th pick to get a guy after #4.
Bridgewater is still my guy but there are some virtual locks in the top-5. I'd go that route and dig for a QB later.
Just my evaluation....if you want another Gino Smith.... Teddy is your man.
I say we pass on qbs till our 2nd round pick. Again just my evaluation we take Aaron Murray. Some say he is a 3 rd round guy but I feel like someone will take him earlier and that he could end up being the best qb in this class.
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Slick this draft is maybe the BIGGEST unknown in the top 5 I have ever seen - since 2001 I've been really educated on drafts due to the INTERNET discovered by me then. You got guys who could go overall #1 or not in the first round at all? You got a position player that is a freak but his film really is not that good. So there is a question if his drive n heart is there. You got a couple of players that had a good last year but were not dominant throughout their college careers - Once again you got two of the safest picks being Offensive Tackles. Around this time before the draft you got just about the entire top 10 the same with all the mocks out there. possibly a change here n there with each other. NOT THIS YEAR.
So who knows. Manziel...I've said it before. IN THE HISTORY of the modern era of football. A QB under six feet has never been drafted in the first round. I like him. I would love him at 4 but I do believe in History too. So I'm confused as heck on what will happen. Teddy was the overall number one pick in September 2013 December 2013 January 2014 Feb. 2014...and now he's not going to go in the FIRST ROUND? Without Injury, Drugs, Arrest involved. Just too many BOZOS involved and have to tweet and blog something 24/7. Making all the GMs jobs easier with the pre-draft Smoke if you ask me
jmho...when in doubt Go see the draft Mocks after the Bowl games
Well....this might sound crazy but im sold on jimmy garoppolo. If possible i would love to see us trade back a few spots,hopefully picking up another 2nd round pick, then take one of the top two cornerbacks. With The 26th pick i would love to get Jimmy there. In the second round we could then concentrate on wr and inside linebacker.
Can you please explain how Teddy and Gino Smith are the same type of QBs, other than their skin color?
I don't see the similarities either.....
Toad who do you view as an elite guy for us at 4???
The OTs don't make a lot of sense do to the amount of $$$ we have tied up in the OL already.
Mack is the same thing because we have invested a ton there already, and if he moves inside do we really want a MLB at 4???
I personally want no part of JC.....we have had our share of guys who looked like Tarzan played like Jane....no thanks.
Watkins intrigues me, and could be a nice pairing with Gordon, but WRs have a bigger bust rate than QBs so he isn't automatic.....and some would argue Evans is a better prospect.
To me it is quite simple, you either draft a QB you want that you know won't be available past the top 10 or you trade down as slick suggested to a team needing an OT or OLB. As Django would rant..lol....there is simply little value in the Browns selecting any of these people as compared to either a QB they like or getting extra picks to move back some.
The good thing about taking a tackle is having another Joe Thomas type player after JT retires in about 5-6 years.
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Toad who do you view as an elite guy for us at 4???
The OTs don't make a lot of sense do to the amount of $$$ we have tied up in the OL already.
Sure, you can argue that drafting one of the elite offensive tackles would tilt us offensive-line heavy, but that can't be a consideration if we have two really good players and a bunch of question marks. As it pertains to right guard and right tackle, they actually stunk. The Niners have proven investing highly in the offensive line isn't a bad thing, and one of the tackles IMHO are a lock over any of the QB's.
Regarding Watkins, I view him in a much more favorable light than you do, Willie. Sure, they have a high bust rate, but so do QB's, so do DT's, etc etc. He's a gamebreaker who reminds me very much of Crabtree when he was coming out, except he's got more explosion. I view him as less likely to fail than the QB's.
When it comes to Mack as being a position that we are already invested in, Sheard's contract is over after this season, and we both know when you talk about players who
"play like Jane" you're pointing the finger right at Mingo, and you'd be exactly right He could very easily bust, and he certainly doesn't look like a full-time guy right now. I say that with the clear understanding that this was his rookie season so his learning curve is steep, but he's scrawny and it's a huge stretch to believe he's going to get measurably bigger and stronger. Furthermore, I'd love Mack at MLB. You're not just taking a 2-down run-stuffer, you're taking a play-maker who can rush the passer from anywhere on the field.
A few months ago I'd stated I wasn't sure there was a 1st round QB in this draft, but acknowledged that the need for QB's would likely drive these guys up to the top of the 1st. I'm now surprised there's so much chatter at how they aren't 1st round QB's. I actually think that's going to turn one more time right before the draft as QB-needy teams get sweaty palms and fold, hehe.
I know there's been a growing sentiment in recent years that "teams who need a QB and can get one at 3 shouldn't wait until later. Just take him." I don't agree with that. I never will. My belief stems from the thinking that too many QB's are reached on which sets them up for failure...and they often do. Part of the equation is some don't actually have the skills while others don't have time to develop. Thirdly, and this is one which I've seen very few people get on board with, is that if you hand the reigns to a guy like Charlie Freakin' Frye not only are you betting on a loser, you're also giving away years where you could have spent on another QB, one that either had the skills or you passed on building up another part of your team.
So no, man, I don't think we should take a QB at 4 just because we need one. There isn't a truly elite prospect in this draft at the QB position because they've all got some real questions. I'd rather take our biggest pick and take a better gamble. That's what teams who consistently win do, and something we've completely ignored in the last decade and a half. While all of these QB's are different in some ways, they are all very close as it pertains to overall grades so it almost becomes a case where you put the names in a hat and draw. One of them will be there at 26 or within striking distance of that pick, and with our extra selections, we can maneuver up if we so desire.
We're closer now than we've likely ever been in terms of matching up with the NFL on the overall talent scale but we're not quite there yet. If we don't know a QB is going to be good just skip him in favor of someone whose chances of failing are much lower, then grab one of the QB's later in the 1st.
Just look at the Bengals. If the team around the QB is good, the QB stands a much better chance of success. Dalton is no all-star but he looks good and the team wins because of the talent.
I see more Ponder's and Gabbert's in this draft than I do anyone close to a truly good bet. There's no point in doubling-down if we don't have to...and we don't have to.
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The good thing about taking a tackle is having another Joe Thomas type player after JT retires in about 5-6 years.
Unless, of course, he has already gone to a new team in free agency before then.
I have this sneaking suspicion that we are going to take one of the more "prototypical" type QBs ........ maybe Bortles, or Carr. Just a guy feeling.
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That's what teams who consistently win do, and something we've completely ignored in the last decade and a half.
Let me guess those teams: Pats (Brady), Colts (Manning then Luck), 49ers (Kaep), Packers (Rodgers), Steelers (Big Ben), Ravens (Flacco).....its like all those teams have something in common...
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Dalton is no all-star but he looks good and the team wins because of the talent.
1st round exit after 1st round exit after 1st round exit....Now if you can be happy with 1st round exits and that's your ceiling more power to you. I want a QB who can win Superbowls and Daltons not one of them.
I end to agree there amphibian.. I'm a bit underwhelmed with this class of QB's. If you take a look at who's going to be available next year.. I think it's a much better class of QB's.. take a look.. big tall QB's with good arms.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2015IMO.. drafting 2 QB's this year is not the right thing to do.. IF sites like Bleacher Report et al.. are correct we should be picking top ten again next year. The smart thing to do is take Sammy at 4.. see who falls to 26 or gamble on Carr and be done with it.
I imagine Vers will be happy with me when He sees what I say next:
IF Su'a-Filo is there at 35 we absolutely need to pull the trigger
Am I wrong to be scared to see Braxton Miller as the #4 overall .... and Cliff Stoudt's kid as the 5th rated QB?
(and year, I know that most drafts might have only 2 really good QBs at best, before someone chimes in)
That's fair YT.. but also remember there's some guys that aren't on that list that should be.. for instance Hundley.. it's an incomplete list. I was just making a point.. also need to remember we will almost certainly be picking up a veteran QB.. I cannot see how we don't.
Drafting 2 QB's is a wrong move for us.. at least wait till 6th or 7th round for that. Just a developmental guy..
We're in a position to draft non-starters because our team is well built enough that we just need a starting QB. We must take two this year no matter what, and if they don't work out then we need to take another one next year. We must get a QB no matter what. Planning to fail only leads to failure.
CHS.. believe me, I understand what you're saying.. but IMO, there just aren't that many good QB's in this draft.
Let me ask you this.. do you think we will pick up a veteran QB?
Well.. then that's the 2nd "drafted" QB.. right?
I find it hard to believe that we would draft for instance Manziel and Carr and keep our two current QB's AND pick up and keep a Vet..
Course I would assume Tanney gets cut..
That's not what I'm advocating at all. One early pick, one late pick and this only works in a situation where we do not pick up a veteran.
(Let's face it Tanney will be cut no matter what we do)
Fair enough. Glad we could have a football conversation without the drama that seems to be plaguing the board lately.
Frankly, I think it's time we get a thread started entitled "What do you want to do in this draft?" Lets get it all out there..
Hopefully it can be a thread where we all state what we would do.. what you would like to see.. and have it steer clear of the bickering.
BTW.. here's a better 2015 QB listing..
http://www.realsportshype.blogspot.com/2014/01/2015-quarterback-prospects.html1. Jameis Winston**
Experience: Sophomore (RS) | School: Florida State
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 235 lbs.
Projected: Top 5 Pick
2013 Season Stats:
237-349, 3,820 Passing Yards (67.9% CMP), 38 TD, 10 INT (89.0 QBR); 4 Rushing TD
2. Marcus Mariota*
Experience: Junior (RS) | School: Oregon
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 218 lbs.
Projected: Top 5 Pick
2013 Season Stats:
227-360, 3,412 Passing Yards (63.1% CMP), 30 TD, 4 INT (85.7 QBR); 81 Attempts, 582 Rushing Yards (7.2 YPC), 9 Rushing TD; Receiving TD
3. Brett Hundley Jr.*
Experience: Junior (RS) | School: UCLA
Height: 6-3 | Weight: 227 lbs.
Projected: Top 15 Pick
2013 Season Stats:
232-342, 2,845 Passing Yards (67.8% CMP), 22 TD, 9 INT (75.4 QBR); 150 Attempts, 587 Rushing Yards (3.9 YPC), 9 Rushing TD; Receiving TD
4. Bryce Petty
Experience: Senior (RS) | School: Baylor
Height: 6-3 | Weight: 230 lbs.
Projected: Round 1-2
2013 Season Stats:
220-356, 3,844 Passing Yards (61.8% CMP), 30 TD, 2 INT (80.6 QBR); 11 Rushing TD
5. Connor Cook*
Experience: Junior (RS) | School: Michigan State
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 219 lbs.
Projected: Round 1-2
2013 Season Stats:
223-380, 2,755 Passing Yards (58.7% CMP), 22 TD, 6 INT (62.1 QBR); Rushing TD
6. Kevin Hogan*
Experience: Junior (RS) | School: Stanford
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 228 lbs.
Projected: Round 2-3
2013 Season Stats:
170-277, 2,487 Passing Yards (61.4% CMP), 20 TD, 9 INT (73.0 QBR); 76 Attempts, 314 Rushing Yards (4.1 YPC), 2 Rushing TD
7. Sean Mannion
Experience: Senior (RS) | School: Oregon State
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 220 lbs.
Projected: Round 3-4
2013 Season Stats:
376-570, 4,403 Passing Yards (66% CMP), 36 TD, 14 INT (65.3 QBR)
8. Chuckie Keeton
Experience: Senior | School: Utah State
Height: 6-2 | Weight: 200 lbs.
Projected: Round 3-4
2013 Season Stats:
136-196, 1,388 Passing Yards (69.4% CMP), 18 TD, 2 INT (75.7 QBR); 55 Attempts, 241 Rushing Yards (4.4 YPC), 2 Rushing TD
9. Taylor Kelly
Experience: Senior (RS) | School: Arizona State
Height: 6-2 | Weight: 201 lbs.
Projected: Round 4-5
2013 Season Stats:
302-484, 3,635 Passing Yards (62.4% CMP), 28 TD, 12 INT (61.5 QBR); 173 Attempts, 608 Rushing Yards (3.5 YPC), 9 Rushing TD
10. Braxton Miller
Experience: Senior | School: Ohio State
Height: 6-2 | Weight: 215 lbs.
Projected: Round 4-5
2013 Season Stats:
146-231, 1,860 Passing Yards (63.2% CMP), 22 TD, 5 INT (77.8 QBR); 153 Attempts, 1,033 Rushing Yards (6.8 YPC), 10 Rushing TD
I just worry about "next year's" QB draft, because I remember when people were all excited about the 2013 QBs in 2012. Matt Barkley (and people complained when I called him "Barely") was supposed to be the next great thing. Tyler Wilson ..... man, he could get into the 1st round discussion ......Landry Jones ..... same thing ........
I'm sure there were others, but those are the ones who really jump to mind.
Then the 2012 season was played, and the 2013 draft hit, and all of these guys were 4th rounders and below.
It is just so hard to project a QB a year away ..... because some develop, and others (and it seems like more than not) regress as weaknesses are exposed.
My personal belief is that if you don't have a QB, you need one ........ and if you don't have a QB, and it's not a great QB draft, you still have to take a chance on one ..... because you aren't going anywhere until you find one. I gamble until I find the right guy. I am not saying we should spend a 1st in every draft, but I would keep throwing bodies on the pile until I find the right guy, taking a QB every other year, some in the 1st, maybe a 2nd or 3rd ...... until I find my guy.
We have a very good team right now, just waiting for a QB. That won't last forever.
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If we don't know a QB is going to be good just skip him in favor of someone whose chances of failing are much lower, then grab one of the QB's later in the 1st.
You make a lot of valid points and this one is legit too, but I disagree and think it's drafting not to lose in a nutshell. I also think you've bent your argument too much by saying that all of them are close in terms of rating.
Would you have signed a Multi Million Dollar OT in FA and skipped all RBs because you don't "know" if any would be good? I don't think so. So why is it ok in the draft? The draft is just another valuable offseason resource to make your team better. What you're suggesting is basically Ego-driven, as in "I don't want to look bad, so I take the player everybody thinks will be good"....and btw, that plan has failed too, see TRich. Remember when you beat every drum for him because he was the safest bet?
Not to lose is the worst kind of mindset, gameday as well as in the draft and offseason when putting a roster together.
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Not to lose is the worst kind of mindset, gameday as well as in the draft and offseason when putting a roster together.
You're damn right.
We need to take our QB at 4. Be it Bortles or Bridgewater. BOTH are justified picks. IF we love Manziel, then take him at 4.
I'll put my nuts out there and say this QB class is significantly better than next year's. Can't believe they didn't put Cody Kessler on there. That guy can play.
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That's what teams who consistently win do, and something we've completely ignored in the last decade and a half.
Let me guess those teams: Pats (Brady), Colts (Manning then Luck), 49ers (Kaep), Packers (Rodgers), Steelers (Big Ben), Ravens (Flacco).....its like all those teams have something in common...
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Dalton is no all-star but he looks good and the team wins because of the talent.
1st round exit after 1st round exit after 1st round exit....Now if you can be happy with 1st round exits and that's your ceiling more power to you. I want a QB who can win Superbowls and Daltons not one of them.
Then name the QB in this years draft that's a sure thing to provide that.... Which one is the absolute best, can't miss, will take us to multiple SB's prospect?
Considering how downright lousy this team has played, I would TAKE winning the division and an early exit from the playoffs for a while. Sure beats the hell out of 4-12 every season.
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The draft is just another valuable offseason resource to make your team better. What you're suggesting is basically Ego-driven, as in "I don't want to look bad, so I take the player everybody thinks will be good"....and btw, that plan has failed too, see TRich. Remember when you beat every drum for him because he was the safest bet?
Taking a safer bet isn't based on ego, it's based on percentages and need. Teams which are perennially successful often take players who are the highest rated on their board regardless of position and regardless of need.
I could turn that argument around and say the Browns threw the big dice at Weeden with a 1st round pick out of desperation, not smarts, just as this franchise has done with every QB from Couch to Frye, from Quinn to Weeden.
From my own personal perspective I don't see that much difference in overall ratings between the top 4 or 5 QB's in this draft, so if the Browns passed on one at 4 and took one later on it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit, even though I still feel Bridgewater is the best of this bunch.
There's no "ego" in this. In fact, my stance on this really comes all the way back around to the debate of "need" versus "BPA."
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I'll put my nuts out there and say this QB class is significantly better than next year's. Can't believe they didn't put Cody Kessler on there. That guy can play.
I totally agree. Winston (if he comes out next year) would be the exception. Otherwise I would put this QB class much higher.
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Then name the QB in this years draft that's a sure thing to provide that.... Which one is the absolute best, can't miss, will take us to multiple SB's prospect?
Name ANYONE in this draft class at ANY position that's a "sure thing"? There is no such thing.
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Would you have signed a Multi Million Dollar OT in FA and skipped all RBs because you don't "know" if any would be good? I don't think so.
There is always risk but at least in FA you have a body of work against NFL talent to evaluate...
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I don't think so. So why is it ok in the draft?
Because the transition from college QB to NFL QB might be one of the least successful transitions in all of professional sports when it comes to being able to judge who will make it effectively. And there is no plan B with a highly drafted QB.. ok so you take Joe Haden and he isn't as great as you thought but he's decent, then he can play CB2.. or you move your stud LT to RT or inside to guard, etc.. there is no moving that QB, he's either the team leader or he's not and he's riding bench with all of your money. Plus, most teams waste 2-3 years trying to find out if he's the right guy or not..
and he's riding bench with all of your money.
Pretty much why they changed the rookie contract structure. Now it doesn't kill franchises (like us) who what seemed on the bottom forever missing on our picks. Couch, Brown (coulda woulda without the injuries), Warren, Green, Faine, KW2, BE, Wi...man senior moment our DE instead of NATA.
Outside of Green and Faine (midround picks) all in the top 10. And some with marginal success but not top 10 success. Not even close but those were the astronomical contracts that killed us.
Since the new CBA we have seen many chances taken on QBs pretty early - the contracts are longer in the first round and the pricing reasonable. Why wait for the 2nd round when you can jump in the late first and gain a year on that first contract???
Jmhthoughts
not just the contracts killed us.. blowing the high round picks set us back Big Time, especially the Weeden and Quinn picks. Both set us back years while we were trying to decide if they were any good. For once, with multiple first round picks.. I would like to see us pick solid first round position players and build talent.. and go for a QB later.
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The good thing about taking a tackle is having another Joe Thomas type player after JT retires in about 5-6 years.
JC....Joe will be 30 this season. He is signed through 2017(4 years) with the final two years having no guaranteed money attached to them. A rookie would be signed through the same year. Meaning even if Joe played through his contract a rook wouldn't cash in on an extension with him still here.
Pace....34
Ogden..33
Munoz..34
I think many on here overestimate how long Joe will play. He is a finesse guy. Once he loses a step he won't have the power like the guys above to compensate. I'd be surprised if he played at a high enough level to keep for the next 4 years much less 6. Look for a replacement to be found this year or next and Joe to restructure in 2 or 3 years to stay a Brown or hell be cut.
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Wi...man senior moment our DE instead of NATA.
Wimbley
And I get that the contracts aren't as huge as they used to be.. you aren't going to draft Matt Stafford and put him in the Dleague... I just wonder if there isn't a better way than a DLeague...
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The good thing about taking a tackle is having another Joe Thomas type player after JT retires in about 5-6 years.
JC....Joe will be 30 this season. He is signed through 2017(4 years) with the final two years having no guaranteed money attached to them. A rookie would be signed through the same year. Meaning even if Joe played through his contract a rook wouldn't cash in on an extension with him still here.
Pace....34
Ogden..33
Munoz..34
I think many on here overestimate how long Joe will play. He is a finesse guy. Once he loses a step he won't have the power like the guys above to compensate. I'd be surprised if he played at a high enough level to keep for the next 4 years much less 6. Look for a replacement to be found this year or next and Joe to restructure in 2 or 3 years to stay a Brown or hell be cut.
You know this is a valid point on taking an OT this year...Just to change this slightly, if we took one at #4 he would sign a 4 year contract, however, the Browns would have the option to pick up a 5th year at the average of the top 25 of his position. So they could in essence let Thomas ride off into the sunset and have a full year to sign a 2014 draft pick to an extension AFTER Thomas leaves..
But, I just don't believe for a second another top ten offensive lineman is going to make any impact to get this team to the Super Bowl any more than one taken in later rounds. Joe Thomas is and has been one of the best, the team has not won in any of those 7 seasons except when they got extraordinary QB play...I feel very strongly we won't win again until we find a QB that will elevate the position to top potential...with or without a top 5 pick on an offensive lineman.
It isn't like we have the line back in 1999 that got Tim Couch killed..
Carr on Gruden's QB camp today was very impressive. Would love to have the kid as a Brown.
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BTW.. here's a better 2015 QB listing..
None of those guys are better than Teddy. Winston might be close, but I have a feeling that guy is going to end up being a head case. The other guys are Spread type QBs who don't read coverages.
We keep putting off spending big on a qb. We gamble on 3rd round guys. They end up sucking. Then we reach on guys like Weeden and BQ.
Time to stop the madness. Teddy is going to be a great qb. Take him.
2 guys worth taking top 10 and thats Manziel and Carr
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You know this is a valid point on taking an OT this year...Just to change this slightly, if we took one at #4 he would sign a 4 year contract, however, the Browns would have the option to pick up a 5th year at the average of the top 25 of his position. So they could in essence let Thomas ride off into the sunset and have a full year to sign a 2014 draft pick to an extension AFTER Thomas leaves..
I'm thinking a top 10 pick gets a 5th year at the average of the top 10 of his position. That's a bit more $$$.
Please avoid any QB who has the tendency for 'happy feet', no matter what kind of arm he has. IMO, you don't train that trait away. I'm resigned we take a QB at 4 but it will be interesting to see what they do if Watkins and/or Robinson is on the board. Taking a QB at 4 Anoints him as 'the Franchise' so there's not much chance he doesn't start either.
Let the draft come to us - love to see 3 of the top 35 come to us rather than force a QB into a starter considering their lack of pedigree. I get the argument you don't get a needed QB if you don't draft one - you also don't make someone a franchise QB just because you want one. From the amount of time they've taken to evaluate, it'll be interesting to see and hear about their early draft decisions.
I can live with Bridgewater, Bortles is a winner and wouldn't mind Savage as a later pick.
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None of those guys are better than Teddy. Winston might be close,
Yea, he might be.. he's an inch taller, 30 pounds heavier, stronger arm, more athletic, just as accurate, more of a vocal leader, plays with a great passion for the game, and is 3 years younger... if Jameis Winston was in this draft he would be the concensus #1 pick and it wouldn't be all that close.
I wouldn't have him #1. He's got a lot of work to do in my opinion for a consensus #1. He reminds me a lot of Bortles, but is a better passer.
If Winston and Mariota were in this draft they'd be 1 and 2. Not a single question in my mind.
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I wouldn't have him #1. He's got a lot of work to do in my opinion for a consensus #1. He reminds me a lot of Bortles, but is a better passer.
And if Bortles was a better passer and had faced better competition (both of which Winston has), he would probably be the #1 this year... therefore, Winston would be the #1 pick.
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I wouldn't have him #1. He's got a lot of work to do in my opinion for a consensus #1. He reminds me a lot of Bortles, but is a better passer.
And if Bortles was a better passer and had faced better competition (both of which Winston has), he would probably be the #1 this year... therefore, Winston would be the #1 pick.
And this time last year, Teddy Bridgewater was the consensus #1 pick...and it wasn't really close...
Pretty amazing what 12 mont...er 4 months...does to a guys draft stock after a pro day.
Winston will be scrutinized the same as all the others...
Is it possible that the NFL teams didn't like Bridgewater as much as the NFL media did one year ago?
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Is it possible that the NFL teams didn't like Bridgewater as much as the NFL media did one year ago?
It's rare that scouts rave about how he is still the #1 QB and the media to say he is not a first rounder. Even to this day.
It's possible, just unlikely. Something isn't right, it doesn't add up.
Just for the record, next season we will not be able to sniff the #1, 2 or even 3 slot to get the top 2 QBs whoever they may be.
The old adage don't put off today for tomorrow does apply.
A bird in hand is worth two in the bush...yada yada yada
We can groom a QB - Hoyer can be just OK or he can develop into a Brees/Montana type. For us that will be a mountain of BUY BACK for all the bad things that happened to us
Still Teddy or JM is in our near future? If not Robinson the OT is a beast - not sure how he will be as a LT but as a RT a BEAST!!! Don't try to over think that. Too much money for OL? Will he be able to take over for Joe T? Pretty much it would give us the BEST CORE for a great OL...Mack at Center and the best Corner Tandem in the NFL. The run game pass game would benefit. Screens, sweeps.
Horizontal and Vertical stretch. When in doubt...go OL if you ask me. RT is getting more important as many teams have two elite Pass rushers now. Also the bigger DEs are getting faster and faster. Robinson is that good! No QB....he's my guy.
jmho
its very possible. Also of next years class, i woudlnt touch winston but I love Bryce Petty, the kid can ball.
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Robinson is that good! No QB....he's my guy.
I'm completely on board with that, eo...
I like Winston more than I like Petty. I thought that UCF/Baylor game was a QB crapfest.
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I wouldn't have him #1. He's got a lot of work to do in my opinion for a consensus #1. He reminds me a lot of Bortles, but is a better passer.
And if Bortles was a better passer and had faced better competition (both of which Winston has), he would probably be the #1 this year... therefore, Winston would be the #1 pick.
And this time last year, Teddy Bridgewater was the consensus #1 pick...and it wasn't really close...
Pretty amazing what 12 mont...er 4 months...does to a guys draft stock after a pro day.
Winston will be scrutinized the same as all the others...
Reminds me of Brady Quinn's fall from grace. The year before he came out, the boards were ga-ga over him. The closer we got to Draft day, the bigger the beating he took and then we were all treated to the billion camera shots of him sitting dejectedly in the Green Room until the late first round.
winston has the off the field issues and kid is just kinda creepy anwyay lol. Petty I think has the most upside and will be a very good Qb at the next level
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None of those guys are better than Teddy. Winston might be close,
Yea, he might be.. he's an inch taller, 30 pounds heavier, stronger arm, more athletic, just as accurate, more of a vocal leader, plays with a great passion for the game, and is 3 years younger... if Jameis Winston was in this draft he would be the concensus #1 pick and it wouldn't be all that close.
Agreed.
Elite athlete, prototypical size, pocket passer, rocket arm, tremendous leader and plays in a pro style offense. His ceiling is equal to Cam Newtons ceiling.
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I wouldn't have him #1. He's got a lot of work to do in my opinion for a consensus #1. He reminds me a lot of Bortles, but is a better passer.
And if Bortles was a better passer and had faced better competition (both of which Winston has), he would probably be the #1 this year... therefore, Winston would be the #1 pick.
And this time last year, Teddy Bridgewater was the consensus #1 pick...and it wasn't really close...
Pretty amazing what 12 mont...er 4 months...does to a guys draft stock after a pro day.
Winston will be scrutinized the same as all the others...
Heck the day before it came out that he was undersized he was still consensus no1. It was easily accessible knowledge but until the media brought it up no one cared. Then he's too small(same size as Carr) and his hands are small(an 1/8th less than Bortles btw). Then his arm was weak(strongest arm of the class according to sports science). Then he was too quiet. Then the Chris Wenkie(sp?) experiment at his pro day and being a bonehead about his gloves(no argument there). Now he's gone from consensus no1 to 2nd round pick lol.
Less than 3 months ago we were all arguing how much we'd give up to trade to no1 for him lol. I can't recall anyone with a loud voice calling him a dud then. Maybe a few whispers but not until the media turned its head on him did anyone go against Teddy. People just ride the coattails and never stick to what they see on tape. Same thing every year.
I like Carr as a leader and a man but he will not be a successful NFL starter.
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None of those guys are better than Teddy. Winston might be close,
Yea, he might be.. he's an inch taller, 30 pounds heavier, stronger arm, more athletic, just as accurate, more of a vocal leader, plays with a great passion for the game, and is 3 years younger... if Jameis Winston was in this draft he would be the concensus #1 pick and it wouldn't be all that close.
Agreed.
Elite athlete, prototypical size, pocket passer, rocket arm, tremendous leader and plays in a pro style offense. His ceiling is equal to Cam Newtons ceiling.
The one knock I have on Winston is a very slow, wind up release. It can be fixed, let's see if he progresses.
I hate it when guys talk about "next year". There has been exactly ONE guy who has EVER made it from out of the "Next year" talk and his name is Andrew Luck.
Jake Locker - #1 overall pick prospect. "Oh wait till next year Jacke Locker is coming out"
Last year - "Wait for Teddy Bridgewater next year" - gets trashed consistently.
Sam Bradford - Went back, got hurt, still was #1 overall and not good. But, but "next year".
Matt Barkley - "Next year, Barkley comes out"
and on and on
Mariotta and Winston aren't going to magically buck a trend that has very few exceptions. The "Next year" guys always get exposed, the next year. In the unlikely event that they don't show glaring holes in their game, the chance that we might be in the position to get them is even more unlikely.
I know you weren't suggesting we wait for next year but it's the tone I am getting. "Next years" guys aren't always good because they looked good for one season.
*See my sig*
Amen brother. I'd draft Winston this year if he was there but he's not and we shouldn't even be in the top 10 next year so go get the guy this year and let's go. (And from what I know of him, he's not a big baseball prospect is he?)
As far as Winston's release, I think that's his baseball background which is really the only thing that scares me.. he could decide he wants to pursue baseball.. and if he doesn't, he should quit now and work on his football throwing mechanics which are good, but like you said, they do have a bit of that baseball wind up in them.
J/C
I'd be happy enough with Watkins at #4 and Carr at #26 since they'd at least get Watkins. I think he is a true game changer and the most dangerous offensive threat in this draft BY FAR. If they take Carr at #4 with Watkins on the board, though, I'll flip out.
I don't mind drafting Carr... as long as it's at 26 or 35. No need to jump on him at 4. Get Mack, Watkins, or Matthews... then get Carr at 26, and then Verrett (CB) or one of the many WR's at 35.
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J/C
I'd be happy enough with Watkins at #4 and Carr at #26 since they'd at least get Watkins. I think he is a true game changer and the most dangerous offensive threat in this draft BY FAR. If they take Carr at #4 with Watkins on the board, though, I'll flip out.
So you're going to flip if they try to get a franchise QB over not selecting a WR? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds. I am the exact opposite, if they have the QB's on the board and take a WR I will drink myself into a coma and call off work on Friday.
I'm not Carr's biggest fan but if they think he is going to be a Franchise QB, take him at 4. WE have too many draft picks to be playing the smartest guy in the room game. This is one of the deepest drafts at WR I can remember.
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J/C
I'd be happy enough with Watkins at #4 and Carr at #26 since they'd at least get Watkins. I think he is a true game changer and the most dangerous offensive threat in this draft BY FAR. If they take Carr at #4 with Watkins on the board, though, I'll flip out.
So you're going to flip if they try to get a franchise QB over not selecting a WR? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds. I am the exact opposite, if they have the QB's on the board and take a WR I will drink myself into a coma and call off work on Friday.
I'm not Carr's biggest fan but if they think he is going to be a Franchise QB, take him at 4. WE have too many draft picks to be playing the smartest guy in the room game. This is one of the deepest drafts at WR I can remember.
I don't see Carr as a franchise QB, but I do see Watkins as an elite WR. Therefore, yes, I'd flip out. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that or what makes my preference ridiculous. Taking the best offensive weapon in the draft isn't playing smartest guy in the room, it's just common sense. Carr or someone comparable can probably be had at #26. In my opinion, this is a draft with a bunch of QBs of a similar skill level and there is no need to jump on one early simply to make the statement that he's the "franchise QB."
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I'm not Carr's biggest fan but if they think he is going to be a Franchise QB, take him at 4. WE have too many draft picks to be playing the smartest guy in the room game. This is one of the deepest drafts at WR I can remember.
And what do they do if they do if they think NONE of them will be a "Franchise QB" without serious help? Still take one anyway and say, "Eh, close enough"?
Scratch Winston off the list.. Rapist and shoplifter
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Scratch Winston off the list.. Rapist and shoplifter
Wow,, hadn't heard that...
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Scratch Winston off the list.. Rapist and shoplifter
Holy hell, this site sometimes....
He wasn't even charged and he stole crab legs.
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Scratch Winston off the list.. Rapist and shoplifter
Rapist? Really?
And what did he steal? A car? a new suit? stereo equipment? a television?
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Just for the record, next season we will not be able to sniff the #1, 2 or even 3 slot to get the top 2 QBs whoever they may be.
Actually, I think we could with a little luck.
If the right guy falls to us at #4, the trade down scenarios become interesting.
If we trade down to 6 with Atlanta and then trade down out of 6, we can really accumulate some heavy duty bargaining power.
Mariotta will end up distancing himself as the top QB prospect by the end of next year.
He was rattled in the Stanford game. His line couldn't block them at all and they went after him. A few days later it was reported (Dan Patrick) that he was hurt going into the game. He was running for his life. When you get rattled and walk up to center with an offensive line in front of you that has quit, it is a very, very, unique feeling. You are completely alone. Things just keep getting worse. All QB's have had that day when they were rattled. The good ones learn from it.
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Scratch Winston off the list.. Rapist and shoplifter
Rapist? Really?
And what did he steal? A car? a new suit? stereo equipment? a television?
when you are playing for a national championship and with an election year coming up, it is consensual and photos become inadmissible to keep your QB in the big game.
he stole crab legs. I want no part of this kid as he is a creepy little turd.
Read what is in print at this time .. He was issued a " Citation " not arrested .. Me thinks that is convenient .. Can you imagine if had been Manzel ??
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Read what is in print at this time .. He was issued a " Citation " not arrested .. Me thinks that is convenient .. Can you imagine if had been Manzel ??
Came in to post this. Somehow Winston is a #1 overall pick despite rape allegations and now this.
Manziel shows up late to a voluntary QB camp with the Mannings and gets crucified for it....Immature etc.
Ridiculous.
Winston is just one of those pampered athletes that will do whatever he wants whenever he wants because he is a star. One of those guys that will be led off in handcuffs yelling "dont you know who i am?"
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Scratch Winston off the list.. Rapist and shoplifter
Holy hell, this site sometimes....
He wasn't even charged and he stole crab legs.
I thought stealing crabs was code for another rape charge with a lady of the baltimore region
Can't believe we're having a problem with a kid stealing crab legs...
yea u would think he would have learned when he was busted for stealing a pop, or when busted for rape or the time he was busted for playing war in mcdonalds with a bb gun.
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Can't believe we're having a problem with a kid stealing crab legs...
Already saw excuses from players about being hungry. Yeah, stealing crab legs is the mark of a guy starving.
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Can't believe we're having a problem with a kid stealing crab legs...
As already mentioned, there was much more conversation about Manziel showing up late to a VOLUNTARY workout.
Winston faced rape charges, then was cited for theft (I don't care if he stole a pack of bubble gum) and we're supposed to ignroe it?
No matter how minor this might seem, I don't want a quarteback who would put himself in these situations. If nothing else, he's shown to be a poor decision maker.
He cited "youthful ignorance". He's 20 years old and doesn't know stealing will get you in trouble. Claim stupidity, but ignorance?
It's not about what he stole, it's about his questionable character.
Don't even get me started on Johnny football hate. All of that is nonsense as well.
Let me know when Jameis steals something worth more than $50.
The total was $32.72 -- Just in case anyone was wondering lol.
Since when is it okay to steal something as long as it is under a certain value?
I wouldn't touch Winston for a mountain of reasons. This is another one on the list. Luckily we will be drafting a QB this year and won't be in the Winston market next year.
Because 30 bucks is no big deal and he paid it. Let me know when he's stealing TV's or dealing drugs instead of just eating.
It's not about the money. It's about the person.
I don't see how stealing crab legs makes him a bad person.
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I don't see how stealing crab legs makes him a bad person.
Stealing ANYTHING makes your character questionable.
I'm not sure why you can't comprehend this.
Because the world is not black and white.
Should we get rid of Armonty Bryant because he dealt drugs? That's much worse than stealing crab legs in American culture. What about Bryant? What does any of this have to do with football?
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Because 30 bucks is no big deal and he paid it. Let me know when he's stealing TV's or dealing drugs instead of just eating.
I've never understood this line of thinking. To me, you're either a thief or you aren't. The law has degrees according to the amount, but you're still a thief.
I've never understood trying to minimize stealing.
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I don't see how stealing crab legs makes him a bad person.
Stealing ANYTHING makes your character questionable.
I'm not sure why you can't comprehend this.
Heh yeah it isn't difficult. Stealing is wrong regardless of the amount taken. Kindergarten morality here folks. Consequentially stealing and rape is the same mindset of taking something that isn't yours because you want it. Taking $30 worth of crabs legs is even more curious, why steal something you can easily afford?
At least a drug dealer isn't violating anyones rights...as long as he isn't shooting people or stealing things. The problem with drug dealing is more about a persons ability to process risk vs. reward, dealing drugs probably gained Bryant a few thousand dollars in exchange for possibly millions from a higher draft position and a better NFL career.
We're talking about a 20 year old man, who has already had legal/off field issues stealing from a freaking grocery store AND.....AND getting caught. At worst it shows he has a ton of growing up to do.
I bet the guy never has to buy another dinner in his life in Tallahassee and he is stealing crab legs....
I'm actually with you on this one, CHS. If you put together an NFL team with spotless records, then you'd have a perennial Mangini-squad with old, slow, and/or not talented players. And then you'd add Robiskie.
Character is a part of the whole evaluation process. Taking this story at face value and tossing his name off your board is throwing that evaluation process out the window.
I don't care to question Jameis as a person -- I've never met him.
But as a football player, yes these things are hard to look past.
And yes, it's easier for me to look past using a 7th round pick on a D-Lineman (Bryant) than a first round pick on a QB with questionable character.
I don't want this type of behavior from my Quarterback -- I'll take the risk with a 7th round DLineman.
Stealing and rape are literally the same thing. No exceptions.
Wow. What a view to have. The fact that you'd even say that makes me think you've never talked to a rape survivor. Wow. I bet the Publix owner felt his legs spread apart while being forcefully choked and gagged when Jameis stole those crab legs. Jesus Christ. I can't believe you said that. I mean, really.
But again, what does this have to do with playing football?
Edit: Took the quotes out. I can see why that would make a false impression.
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"Stealing and rape are literally the same thing. No exceptions."
I just want the record to show that this is NOT what cob said. This quote is 100% false.
What it really has to do with is risk verses reward.
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"Stealing and rape are literally the same thing. No exceptions."
Wow. What a view to have. The fact that you'd even say that makes me think you've never talked to a rape survivor. Wow. I bet the Publix owner felt his legs spread apart while being forcefully choked and gagged when Jameis stole those crab legs. Jesus Christ. I can't believe you said that. I mean, really.
But again, what does this have to do with playing football?
Quotations in the english language are generally used to directly reference what someone said. When you quote me...I'd appreciate it if you didn't change my words to make me look like some kind of rape endorsing monster.. Just you know, as a common courtesy.
I'm not even sure I need to engage you CHS. Give me some credit man. I am saying a Thief and a Rapist are both assholes who don't care about others and narcissistically take what they want. How that makes me a defender of rape is beyond me.
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I don't see how stealing crab legs makes him a bad person.
Stealing ANYTHING makes your character questionable.
I'm not sure why you can't comprehend this.
I don't condone his action(s) and certainly brings his character into question. While none of us are perfect, most of us know where to draw the line in the sand...
Rapists and murderers have the same mindset. Thieves have the same mindset of people who claim a bit more than what they had on income taxes. I'm sorry that I unfairly quoted you, but that's what I got from your post. I should have cut you some more slack.
But how does this relate to football? Are Big Ben's motives on the field questioned because he allegedly sexually assaulted two women? Were Ray Lewis's motives on the field questioned because he was involved in a murder case. I could go on and on, but again, criminal records have nothing to do with what they can do on the field.
Those players had already proven themselves in the NFL.
The point is that there is no correlation between a criminal record and success at playing football.
so what is the threshold that makes him a bad person for taking something that is not his... $100.... $500, $5000?
Since it's ok to steal up to a certain level just curious what that level is.
It's more of a case by case thing. But I think I could safely say about 60-100 bucks is the cut off.
so if some punk gets in your car and takes 6 cd's your ok with that?
They'll be hard press to find anything worth $60 in my car that doesn't have a digital back up. But sure. I'll just file a police report and an insurance claim
The rape thing is bothersome because on one hand, he was never actually charged, on the other hand, I'm not sure the TPD or FSU did what I would consider a real thorough investigation... stealing a handful of crab legs or a soda, it's stupid but it's more of a college prank.
I understand CHS,,, Stealing is one of my must never do things I guess.
I am a lot of things but I don't lie or steal, I aint no saint but stealing no matter how small just bugs me.
That said he is a 20 year old college ... so....
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I don't see how stealing crab legs makes him a bad person.
It just starts with crab legs, then onto lobsters, soon that won't be enough and it's half a side of beef and the cravings won't stop there, now he's up to rustling cattle, then horses.
He'll probably even branch into grains, first it's only misdemeanor crop circles and trespassing, then john deere tractor theft.
Where does it all end?
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It's more of a case by case thing. But I think I could safely siut 60-100 is the cut off.
Is that cut off set by the cost of living index of the area where the infraction occured? Or by the SES of the victim?
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I don't see how stealing crab legs makes him a bad person.
It just starts with crab legs, then onto lobsters, soon that won't be enough and it's half a side of beef and the cravings won't stop there, now he's up to rustling cattle, then horses.
He'll probably even branch into grains, first it's only misdemeanor crop circles and trespassing, then john deere tractor theft.
Where does it all end?
Infiltrating Monsato and swindling stock options!
Bothersome?
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/...nston.html?_r=0The investigation was so flawed as to leave believable claims she was raped unanswered.. furthermore after they finally obtained DNA it matched Winston.. he did it.
J/C
It's the Derek Carr thread. Please act accordingly.
I'd like to hear debate on Derek Carr, not on stupid crap about a prospect that is still a year away.
My bad.. and I'd take Carr but at the right spot.. I'd love that to be 35 but that's unrealistic
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Don't even get me started on Johnny football hate. All of that is nonsense as well.
Let me know when Jameis steals something worth more than $50.
Maybe you can help me understand why multiple instances of theft are no big deal...
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They'll be hard press to find anything worth $60 in my car that doesn't have a digital back up. But sure. I'll just file a police report and an insurance claim
Why file a claim?
It's no big deal...right?
Because it has nothing to do with what he can do on the football field.
I don't pay for insurance because I love wasting money. It's so that I can use it when I need it.
So character doesn't mean as much to you as it does to me. Roger.
You got that right, Mangini.
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J/C
It's the Derek Carr thread. Please act accordingly.
I'd like to hear debate on Derek Carr, not on stupid crap about a prospect that is still a year away.
There's 4 or 5 pages of that.. what's left to say?
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Bothersome?
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/...nston.html?_r=0
The investigation was so flawed as to leave believable claims she was raped unanswered.. furthermore after they finally obtained DNA it matched Winston.. he did it.
She went home from a party with him. He had sex with her. He admitted that.
So yes, it's bothersome. He's a high profile athlete who was accused but never charged with rape.. if you want to have his trial in your own mind based on newspaper articles and conclude he did it then I can't stop you. Because women never do things with high profile athletes and then make up false allegations...
If he really did rape her, then I hope somebody at a higher level picks up the evidence and proves that.. and I feel bad for her and hope he spends the first 10 years of what would be his NFL career in jail... but until that happens, I have to assume there just wasn't enough evidence to proceed..
It's not the first legs Jameis Winston has tried to take home and open without permission.
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It's not the first legs Jameis Winston has tried to take home and open without permission.
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It's not the first legs Jameis Winston has tried to take home and open without permission.
Post of the day, calling it at 9:20 AM EST.
That's how you should have started the argument. Can't beat or disagree with that.
More on topic, cuze I didn't read the posts...keep Mike Evans name alive..thats another possibility starting to gain steam.
I think he is the best player in the draft, well i go back and forth between evans and clowney.
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More on topic, cuze I didn't read the posts...keep Mike Evans name alive..thats another possibility starting to gain steam.
at 26?
'Cleveland Browns have talked to QB David Carr about a backup role if they draft his brother Derek Carr'
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/cleveland_browns_have_talked_t.htmlBy Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on May 01, 2014 at 8:23 PM, updated May 02, 2014 at 1:38 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- By the end of the draft next week, the Browns could have two Carrs parked in their quarterback room.
David Carr, the former No. 1 overall pick of the Texans and big brother of Browns' prospect Derek Carr, told cleveland.com Thursday that the Browns are one of about six teams that have talked to him about signing as a backup if they draft his little brother.
"Yeah, they've definitely been one of those teams that have expressed interest,'' said Carr, 34. "There are probably about six or seven teams that have been real interested in that scenario, so we'll see what happens. It's going to be exciting.''
In Cleveland, David would especially come in handy because he knows offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan's offense inside and out. Shanahan was wide receivers coach for the Texans under Gary Kubiak in 2006, Carr's final season there.
"For brotherly, selfish reasons, that would be great,'' said David. "But at the same time, I don't trust any other quarterback in the room with Derek (laughs). I know quarterbacks and I know veteran guys come in a lot of times and they don't want the young guy to play. They're going to be a teammate, but are they going to go to that next level to make sure this kid really succeeds? I can guarantee you that's the case with us. He would be just as happy if I was on the field as if he were out there.
"That's the goal -- to get him to play at a high level and to go out and use the experience that I've kind of gained over the last decade or so and try and help him out.''
David, who starred at Fresno State 11 years before his brother did, acknowledged it would "almost'' be too good to be true for the two to play on the same team "but it would be smart. I'm not a general manager, but the teams that have expressed interest in it, they think they're on to something and I think they're right.''
David, who sat out of football last season after being released by the Giants in August, would be content helping Derek and the other quarterbacks improve. After going 23-56 in his 11 seasons -- including 22-53 with the expansion Texans -- he knows his primary role is as a mentor. In addition to the six teams interested in him in a package deal with Derek, three teams have discussed signing him even without the sidekick.
"If I came back to the NFL to play, it wouldn't be for myself, it wouldn't be a selfish reason,'' he said. "It would be to really help the team. I've stood there before and held the clipboard, but I didn't really feel like I was really helping. I want to go in and really make an impact, whether I'm on the field or off the field. I want to do as much in the meeting room, in the locker room as I can to help a young guy, or to help an experienced guy.
And if it happens in Cleveland, where he already likes and trusts the staff, all the better. Carr is one of several quarterbacks the Browns are seriously considering in this draft.
"With good communication in the quarterback room, you can get to a point, especially in Kyle's offense where it can look very smooth and you can line up some numbers,'' David said. "Hopefully we'll get a chance somewhere -- but the Browns are definitely on the radar for sure.''
(end)
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We can't be serious...
What, You thought it would stop at Vince Young?
What're Joey Harrington and Matt Lienart up to these days?
the last thing I want is that smarmy slimeball strutting around the sidelines filling Derek's ear with "advice". Ugh.
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More on topic, cuze I didn't read the posts...keep Mike Evans name alive..thats another possibility starting to gain steam.
I'd love that in a trade down scenario. Sell off Watkins to whoever believes his hype, take Evans and the extra picks, thank you. I have Evans over Watkins anyway at WR, so I'd love the value aspect, BUT....the QB problem remains. If we can grab a falling Teddy later? Man, Evans+Teddy+Fuller would be my wet Dream scenario 
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We can't be serious...
What, You thought it would stop at Vince Young?
What're Joey Harrington and Matt Lienart up to these days?
Maybe Tim Tebow will come out of "retirement" too? I'm sure he's been practicing a lot, just in case.
What's truly interesting is that of 6 teams we are the only one known. If it's not a ploy to get someone to take Carr over a QB we actually like I don't know what is.
Farmer was at several of their games as well as practices to evaluate JM...had no choice but get one of the best looks at Evans
jmho
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What's truly interesting is that of 6 teams we are the only one known. If it's not a ploy to get someone to take Carr over a QB we actually like I don't know what is.
I refuse to believe that after ALL this secrecy, were just ganna be like "Oh yeah, we want Carr"
