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http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/apr/19/browns-show-theyre-serious-about-running/Tom Reed: Browns show they’re serious about running - Published: Sat, April 19, 2014 @ 12:05 a.m. The futility of the Browns’ running game last season might have been best demonstrated in one of its few moments of success. The club’s first rushing touchdown came in Week 5 against the Mike Pettine-led Buffalo Bills defense. The Browns had first-and-goal at the 1 and required everything but a medieval catapult to get 32-year-old Willis McGahee up, over and into the end zone on three tries. By season’s end, they ranked last in rushing TDs (four), 30th in attempts (348) and tied for 27th in yards per game (86.4), all while leading the NFL in passes thrown. Unless your quarterback is named Brady, Brees or Manning, that’s not a winning formula. Pettine, the new coach and resident philosopher on AFC North toughness, recognized a need for a change. So did new general manager Ray Farmer. To their credit, they have addressed it in a variety of ways before the draft. Beyond signing free-agent halfback Ben Tate, they have added run-conscious offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, acquired fullback Chris Pressley and retrained All-Pro center Alex Mack at a hefty price. It’s premature to say whether these moves will improve the running game — I was among the chorus lauding the trade for receiver Davone Bess last spring — but the intent is unmistakable. Even in a pass-obsessed league, most good teams require some balance. The roster includes Tate, Edwin Baker, Chris Ogbonnaya and Dion Lewis at running back. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see them draft another one in the late rounds. The National Football Post reported Friday the Browns were among teams showing interest in Boston College’s Andre Williams. “It’s hard to be that three-down back anymore in the NFL,” Pettine said at the combine. “Most of the successful teams have a committee approach. You need to have depth there given the pounding that position will take. We’re going to make a commitment to run the football and obviously that position is a priority.” The biggest “priority” remains getting it right at quarterback. The Browns face a massive decision in the first round with no obvious answers at No. 4 or No. 26. Do you take Johnny Manziel with that first pick? Is Brian Hoyer good enough — healthy enough — to lead the offense next season? Regardless of the choice, the quarterback should benefit from an upgraded running game. Shanahan and his father, Mike, have a history of producing good running backs, making a Pro Bowler out of 2012 sixth-round pick Alfred Morris in Washington. The Redskins ranked among the top five in rushing the past two seasons with some help from QB Robert Griffin III. If he can stay healthy, Tate seems like an ideal one-cut back for Shanahan’s zone-blocking scheme. After years of playing behind Arian Foster, he’s motivated for a breakout season. Having a veteran lead blocker should help Tate achieve it. A year ago, the Browns were one of several teams that did not employ a traditional fullback, opting to use the 225-pound Ogbonnaya. Things got so desperate late in the season they resorted to defensive lineman Billy Winn. The presence of the 5-foot-11, 260-pound Pressley contributed to Cincinnati Bengals’ halfback BenJarvus Green-Ellis leading the league in third-and-1 conversions (14-of-15) in 2012. During that same season, third-and-shorts were a source of constant frustration for the Browns and Trent Richardson. Obviously, the running game was a disaster a year ago after jettisoning Richardson. Its struggles played a part in the Browns leading the NFL in fourth-down attempts (31) and conversions (14). Exciting as the gamble is to watch, that’s no way to run an offense. The Browns won’t win consistently until they solve the 15-year-old QB riddle. But a viable running threat will relieve pressure from the passer, something no Browns quarterback has enjoyed since the makers of Madden ’12 put Peyton Hillis on its cover. It bears repeating the best teams last season, Seattle and San Francisco, boasted two of the most robust rushing attacks. We won’t know how effective the Browns’ ground game is until September, but there’s a good chance they won’t need to borrow Monty Python’s catapult. Tom Reed covers the Browns for The Plain Dealer and the Northeast Ohio Media Group. - See more at: http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/apr/19/browns-show-theyre-serious-about-running/#sthash.n2AUqBVG.dpuf
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Many of us have wanted the Ground it out style of offense for years. I believe it all rests on the Oline. If they can grasp the ZBS, and we get some decent gaurd play, the rest should just fall into place. I think Tate is going to make a name for himself if all goes right.
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Its about balance and keeping the some guys on the other side of the ball in the box. Running game doesn't have to be world class, it just needs to decent. That is of course the passing game has worked itself out.  I crack myself up.
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They weren't serious when they signed 32 year old, no knee worth a damn, Willis McGahee? Could have fooled me   But in all seriousness, we NEED to have a better run game compared to last year under Norv. We don't have any type of QB's that I would rely on in another pass-happy offense, and really, I just don't want to see another pass-happy offense. The run game will ease up pressure from a lot of positions if it's successful and can get going. 3 and outs, all pass plys that failed in some sense of fashion, and as often as we saw them last year... pretty painful.
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If we're going run first or ground and pound, then we have to draft another bruiser type RB in addition to Tate. His durability is the key question and after him we have a bunch of question marks. That puts Carlos Hyde front and center.
I vow to smack everyone who says the importance of the running back is diminished in the NFL today.
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I keep hearing it has become a passing league and I agree but you have to have balance on offense. At some point you have to be able to run the ball. It may be to run out the clock or, especially in our division, the weather may not allow a passing game. Running the ball imo is still very important.
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Having effective guards would help us run the ball. Farmer chose to ignore three good ones in free agency, but he did bring in two WRs, a TE, and a RB. 
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Just because we didn't sign a guard doesn't mean we didn't try to get one or didn't think we needed one. Free agency is a two way street, you know that.
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Quote:
Having effective guards would help us run the ball. Farmer chose to ignore three good ones in free agency, but he did bring in two WRs, a TE, and a RB.
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Quote:
I keep hearing it has become a passing league and I agree but you have to have balance on offense. At some point you have to be able to run the ball. It may be to run out the clock or, especially in our division, the weather may not allow a passing game. Running the ball imo is still very important.
I couldnt agree more. We had absolutely no running game at all last year.
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If we're going run first or ground and pound, then we have to draft another bruiser type RB in addition to Tate. His durability is the key question and after him we have a bunch of question marks. That puts Carlos Hyde front and center.
Yeah,bringing Tate here doesn't make me jump up and down...if they are really serious then draft a back that can pound it.
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So you're getting tired of repeating the same friggin' topic over and over as well?
Good!
Make you point and move on... if I had a dollar for every post you made on Farmer and guards it would change my tax bracket... 
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Quote:
Its about balance and keeping the some guys on the other side of the ball in the box. Running game doesn't have to be world class, it just needs to decent. That is of course the passing game has worked itself out. I crack myself up.
Exactly. It's amazing how devalued the running back position has become. Heard the other day that 2 kickers have signed contracts this offseason bigger than ANY running back. Not sure if that's still true or not but that's kind of amazing considering the deals RBs used to get.
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Quote:
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Its about balance and keeping the some guys on the other side of the ball in the box. Running game doesn't have to be world class, it just needs to decent. That is of course the passing game has worked itself out. I crack myself up.
Exactly. It's amazing how devalued the running back position has become. Heard the other day that 2 kickers have signed contracts this offseason bigger than ANY running back. Not sure if that's still true or not but that's kind of amazing considering the deals RBs used to get.
I heard that on ESPN radio this morning...crazy
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Having effective guards would help us run the ball. Farmer chose to ignore three good ones in free agency, but he did bring in two WRs, a TE, and a RB.
Picked up McQuistan who at worst is slightly better than Shawn Lauvao. Greco is decent (albeit he didnt have the best year last year) and Pinkston is back full speed and you have to think we go guard in round 2 or 3.
The position still needs to be addressed but their wasn't really anyone on the guard market that was a slam dunk/throw huge money at prospect.
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So we have a bunch of guys that cough up the football and Ben Tate.
Man I can't wait to get them more carries....
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How do the guys we have and picked up fit the ZBS, and are they better than in the blocking scheme we used last year? It seems to me that Schwartz was solid as a rookie in the ZBS, once he became acclimated. They we changed schemes, and he struggled again. Maybe he'll go back to being an effective RT in the WCO we'll run this year. Further, this season should see an upgraded run game to take some pressure off of the pass blocking.
One other quick comment on the OL: Maybe they weren't as bad as we though last year ...... maybe one QB made them look worse than they were. I broke this down earlier this off-season, and the Browns allowed most of their sacks when Weeden was in the game.
He was sacked 27 times in 294 drop backs.(attempts + sacks) That is a sack once every 10.88 times Weden dropped back to pass
Hoyer and Campbell were sacked a combined 22 times in 434 pass drop backs. For these 2 QB, the ration is once every 19.72 times dropping back. So, these 2 QBs were sacked about half as often as Weeden did.
That's a fairly significant difference.
We also threw the ball more than any other team in the NFL due to our complete and total lack of a RB.
Stability at the QB spot, with a QB who has some pocket awareness, combined with fewer pass attempts due to a revitalized run game, and maybe, just maybe, our OL is actually OK.(?)
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So we have a bunch of guys that cough up the football and Ben Tate.
Man I can't wait to get them more carries....
Other than Oby which there is a good chance he is gone, who else has this fumblitis?
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Quote:
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So we have a bunch of guys that cough up the football and Ben Tate.
Man I can't wait to get them more carries....
Other than Oby which there is a good chance he is gone, who else has this fumblitis?
My mistake, I thought I had read Lewis had fumbling issues with the eagles in practice, which limited his opportunities but I can't seem to find that now.
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We also have Faulk and the ex-Bungle dude that we picked up last year. We might not need anymore G's. Don't know if they fit the ZBS or not.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Quote:
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So we have a bunch of guys that cough up the football and Ben Tate.
Man I can't wait to get them more carries....
Other than Oby which there is a good chance he is gone, who else has this fumblitis?
My mistake, I thought I had read Lewis had fumbling issues with the eagles in practice, which limited his opportunities but I can't seem to find that now.
That's cool, I fgured I just missed it somewhere.
I do know I cringed eveytime Oby ran the ball last year. I just knew he was going to put in on the ground at the most inopportune time.
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We also have Faulk and the ex-Bungle dude that we picked up last year. We might not need anymore G's. Don't know if they fit the ZBS or not.
Faulk.. he is the wild card... if he has healed from everything I read he could be a beast. Hey it's about time we got lucky and hit on one of these gambles. 
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Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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So you're getting tired of repeating the same friggin' topic over and over as well?
Good!
Make you point and move on... if I had a dollar for every post you made on Farmer and guards it would change my tax bracket...
Not tired of it at all.
When bozos or dumb posters try to convince others that the Browns are dedicated to running the football, well..............I am going to mention how we did not improve the guard situation despite three good zone blocking guards being available.
Now, I realize how a guy like you think signing one back-up guard, one fumbling and oft-injured RB, a TE, and two WRs might think that means we are committed to improving the running game...........but, I don't have to buy into such nonsense.
Thus, don't say stupid and untrue things if you don't want me to respond.
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Vers, anyone, what do you know on Gilkey and zone blocking? Gilkey played some LG last season. I thought Greco played RG with the Rams...not sure. It could very well be the killer G's at Guard with Faulk and McQuistan competing.
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I really wasn't sure of the answer to that question, bugs..............so, I looked him up. This seems fairly reasonable. Quote:
Strengths Weaknesses
STRENGTHS: Looks the part. Naturally large man with good weight distribution and long limbs. Shows good initial quickness off the snap, including good lateral agility. Bends at the knees and plays on the balls of his feet, making him more nimble than his size might lead you to believe. Showed much greater use of leverage and overall physicality inside at the Senior Bowl than he'd previously shown on tape at tackle, sitting down to anchor against even Georgia's mammoth nose guard John Jenkins (6-4, 359). Has an on-off switch in terms of his personality; easy-going, good-natured player off the field but showed grit in his play against top competition in Mobile, including flashes of some nastiness. Intriguing developmental prospect with the athleticism and work ethic to believe that his best football is still ahead of him.
WEAKNESSES: Obvious level of competition concerns, though these are minimized somewhat by his successful week of practice at the Senior Bowl. Viewed by some as a bit of 'tweener due to his height and lack of elite foot quickness. Considered by some teams to be too tall to play guard and might have to be a developmental strong-side tackle prospect. Has a tendency to play high, making him vulnerable to powerful defenders who can bull rush him into the pocket. Described as having a "goofy" personality and as potentially lacking the "fire in his belly" some teams look for in offensive linemen.
COMPARES TO: Jeff Linkenbach, OG, Indianapolis Colts -- Just as Linkenbach, 6-6, 323, was asked to make the transition from left tackle to the interior coming out of Cincinnati three years ago, Gilkey's best chance at NFL success likely will be on the inside where he can be better protected. Big, surprisingly athletic and willing to put in the work, he could emerge as a developmental starter just as Linkenbach has in starting 28 games for the Colts since signing with the team as an undrafted free agent following the 2010 draft.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1888792/garrett-gilkey
Sounds like a possibility.
Good question, my man.
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Way too early to tell. We will find out how serious the Browns are about running the ball in the upcoming draft. If they don't draft a couple of OL (and one very early), I'm calling serious BS. Line got little push in short yardage situations last year and led the league in QB hits - it is a serious problem that needs to be addressed in the draft...and I think it will be. Fingers crossed and go Browns!
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Of course. I will acknowledge them if they draft zone blocking guards in the draft. I was simply replying to the original article in this thread about how serious the Browns were about running the football.
They ain't proved squat to me yet.
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You have to correct those stats to allow for having the most indecisive, and slowest, QB in the league, plus a primary RB that made TRich look fast.
Just getting rid of those two will give dramatic improvement.
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Quote:
I really wasn't sure of the answer to that question, bugs..............so, I looked him up. This seems fairly reasonable.
Sounds like a possibility.
Good question, my man.
Thanks!
To me, I have difficulty what exactly makes a perfect trait for zone blocker: long arms with a good punch; athletic with good footwork. Ideally you want both
Tab is big on footwork. I have to agree. Guards having a good punch is affective too.
The biggest thing I like about Gilkey is he works. He moved all over the OL during his Senior Bowl week. I wonder if he participated in LeCharles off-season program.
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That's true.
However, the fact remains that our guards are not athletic enough to be very effective in a zone blocking scheme and our offensive line did not exactly open up gaping holes last year for any back.
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bugs: To me, it's two things.
1. Athletic. Agile guys w/good lateral movement and who have the ability to get the second level.
2. Intelligence/Technicians. Zone blocking is much more taxing in terms of how smart you have to be and it requires guys to be technically sound.
Joe T and Alex Mack fit this perfectly.
Our guards do not fit either trait.
Schwartz may or may not. I am down on the guy, but perhaps he will be better in this system.
I think we need help on the OL. Thus far---and the off-season is not over yet---we have done a poor job of addressing this critical need.
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Oooppsss, the ol'intelligence...yes!
I'm not sure you can truly judge last year's OL. Dang the offense played so slow. One of my biggest disappointments in Turner's offense.
TRich did play slightly above average his rookie year. I felt the offense played faster under Shurmur. McGahee lost speed, but he is not terrible. Browns should have been close to average. Oh well, that era is gone.
Thanks for the tips!
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Vers wrote: Quote:
When bozos or dumb posters try to convince others that the Browns are dedicated to running the football, well..............I am going to mention how we did not improve the guard situation despite three good zone blocking guards being available.
Yeah, and the only place one can acquire guards is in free agency. It's against the rules to draft guards. That's a shame, because we do have 10 picks in the upcoming draft and that would be a fine place to get some help for the offensive line. too bad that's not allowed.....
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Quote:
bugs: To me, it's two things.
1. Athletic. Agile guys w/good lateral movement and who have the ability to get the second level.
2. Intelligence/Technicians. Zone blocking is much more taxing in terms of how smart you have to be and it requires guys to be technically sound.
Joe T and Alex Mack fit this perfectly.
Our guards do not fit either trait.
Schwartz may or may not. I am down on the guy, but perhaps he will be better in this system.
I think we need help on the OL. Thus far---and the off-season is not over yet---we have done a poor job of addressing this critical need.
You want to know what makes up a perfect ZBS Guard? Look up Eric Steinbach and emulate him! 
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Gilkey looked horrible in action, got beat off the snap, had a couple of holding penalties. Yeah, I don't know what people saw that I didn't that make them think he belongs at this level. He was a rookie from a small school, so he was getting his feet wet, but man, he was drowning.
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Quote:
Vers wrote: Quote:
When bozos or dumb posters try to convince others that the Browns are dedicated to running the football, well..............I am going to mention how we did not improve the guard situation despite three good zone blocking guards being available.
Yeah, and the only place one can acquire guards is in free agency. It's against the rules to draft guards. That's a shame, because we do have 10 picks in the upcoming draft and that would be a fine place to get some help for the offensive line. too bad that's not allowed.....
Have you even read the entire thread? Did you not see that I would change my mind if they drafted guards? Did you not see me say that it's TOO EARLY to say they are serious about running?
You don't have a clue as to what you are saying in this situation. I never said they are serious about running the football, but thus far, you can't prove that they are. That's it.
Get it? Probably not. 
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