DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns Daily grades Ray Farmer’s offseason moves

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On Tuesday’s “Cleveland Browns Daily, Driven by Liberty Ford,” co-hosts Vic Carucci and Nathan Zegura awarded Ray Farmer with their offseason grades based on the moves and signings made this offseason.

Scott Petrak, from the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram, awarded Farmer with his offseason grade, along with his thoughts on what the future moves of Farmer and company should entail.

CBD went around the NFL to touch on hot topics regarding the San Francisco 49ers and Buffalo Bills, by speaking with Eric Branch, from the San Francisco Chronicle, and Joe Buscaglia, Bills beat writer for WGR.

Kevin Jones, from ClevelandBrowns.com, reflected on his conversation with Mike Pettine, Sr., the father of Browns coach Mike Pettine, Jr., who has become the “godfather” of the Browns’ coaching staff. For Kevin’s complete article, visit ClevelandBrowns.com.

Here are some highlights:

Vic Carucci: “I feel very confident about this offseason. This merits the A grade on multiple levels. First of all, the Browns went into the offseason with specific targets on what they wanted to address position-wise and where they needed to upgrade. More than that, they found ways to upgrade the overall talent level with a core group of players who are ready to contribute now. With Alex Mack, they made a resounding statement that good players don’t get away from the Browns. That gives you faith that when it comes to the (Joe) Haden’s, (Josh) Gordon’s, (Jordon) Cameron’s and the stars on this team whose contracts are going to come up, the Browns will keep them. What I credit Ray Farmer and company with is having the vision and understanding on how to put this thing together. In terms of where they are in this offseason, now it is full speed ahead for the draft. I think the free agency shopping and targeting that is going on has pretty much concluded. What this team does next, whether at the quarterback position or elsewhere, is going to be draft-driven.”




Kevin Jones: “Mike Pettine, Sr. coached for thirty-three years in Pennsylvania and his record was 327-42. He really did some impressive things there and three current coaches for the Browns played under him (head coach Mike Pettine, Jr., defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil, and linebackers coach Chuck Driesbach). He said he is very excited that his son is the head coach now because he gets to focus on offense, and offense is (Pettine, Sr.’s) favorite. To sum it up, Pettine, Sr.’s program, was accountable. When guys left, they were the best players they were able to be. O’Neil said he knew how to tell the truth to players. He never faked it, he was always honest, and at the end of the day, players respected him. Pettine, Sr. said Cleveland is in their honeymoon stage now. Everyone is excited, but he knows that a coach is measured on wins. He’s excited for his son, but he knows the pressure he is soon to be under.”




Eric Branch: “There is no new news to report on as of today (on Aldon Smith) and the way things are going for (Colin) Kaepernick would seem to be positive if you are a 49ers fan. But really, as of today, it’s still a wait-and-see. The 49ers’ (signing wide receiver Brandon Lloyd) may be because the way he played against them in recent years. They have seen him at his best, but at this point, he’s a guy who is competing for a roster spot.”




Nathan Zegura: “I give the Browns a solid 93 for the offseason. They brought in a lot of guys who will help in the locker room as well as on the field and they did their spending very prudently. It’s about constantly building your roster and for the draft to be the lifeblood of your team. You have to draft players, develop them, and then retain them. You have to find and sign your own guys and in a nutshell, that is what Farmer has done this offseason. When you retain someone like Alex Mack, you make a statement that this is a team that is going to have a really good, solid nucleus of players, plus their ten picks in the draft. They are setting this thing up the right way for the first time in a long time. Can you solve everything in free agency? No. Should you try to solve everything in free agency? No. They need to build through the draft. They certainly plugged some holes where they were needed. Now they have to go in the draft and get the best guys they can.”




Joe Buscaglia: “The Donald (Trump) story is certainly making headlines. He’s playing to the crowd here in Buffalo in saying he isn’t going to move the team and he is the only candidate who has come out and said he wants the Bills and wants to keep them here. I would also look at someone like (Boston Bruins owner) Jeremy Jacobs. He has three sons, two of which don’t have any ownership stake in the Bruins. The Jacobs family is one of the best shots for the Bills to stay in Buffalo.”




Scott Petrak: “I would give Ray Farmer and the Browns a B. I like a lot of what he has done and don’t have many complaints, but the reason it’s not higher is that they still need a cornerback and they still haven’t addressed the quarterback position. They need to get a veteran quarterback to compete with (Brian) Hoyer, but keeping Alex Mack plays a big part on how I graded them. It was imperative that they kept Mack. That’s what good teams in this league do; they keep their own talent and they draft well. I still see the needs of this team being another receiver, another lineman – a guy who can compete at right tackle or at guard, and an inside linebacker. (Craig) Robertson played okay last year, but if you brought in another guy to compete with him, you could take a big step if you find the right one. If you are a rookie general manager, you are more apt to play it safe (in the draft). I’m not saying Ray will, but if you don’t love any quarterback and aren’t convinced that (Sammy) Watkins is the next Calvin Johnson, maybe you do trade back at four to get some more picks and that’s an alternative that Farmer may be considering.”

My opinion isn't driven by Liberty Ford and I don't draw a paycheck from the Browns......I rate it a C+, maybe B-.




Some of the moves were a wash, and some were good.....Burelson as an example.



I would have liked us to get a little more in to the mix with some of the top guards. McQuistan was a decent signing, but I wanted a little more......but that is JMO.....and I know I tend to value guards more than many others.

Wow! Those grades are really high.I give it a C+As they added too many FAs for my liking.

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My opinion isn't driven by Liberty Ford and I don't draw a paycheck from the Browns...

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Offseason grades?...compared to what?...based on what?

I believe Pettine 'SR' put things in proper perspective saying, "Cleveland is in their honeymoon stage now"...

I guess there is nothing wrong with giving out "feel good" grades...

...but I'm going to give Farmer and the entire staff an "incomplete", because we haven't seen anything on the field yet.

We didn't sign a guard. We are switching to a zone blocking scheme and we are hurting at guard and probably at RT, as well.

We signed two more WRs. How refreshing is that? We signed another TE. Brilliant.

We made a couple of good moves, but not addressing the OL was a huge disappointment.

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So...Again, not sure what the argument is about NOT signing a guard this off season..

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I agree with you. McQuistan wasn't my top choice for the OL, but in a way I can see why they signed him. Is he a great players? I don't think so. However, the front office and coaches obviously felt that he was a good fit for this team, so we'll see how he turns out. To say that we didn't sign anyone is dishonest at best, because obviously, we did.

I'm with 'Peen on this one. I can only give the FO as high as a B-. I like the moves they made, but I really wish they would've addressed one more position. If they had gotten a day 1 starter for RG, CB2, or ILB2, then I would give a grade of solid B. It just seems like we have one or two more needs than are possible to address in one draft.

Also, grabbing so many starting-caliber WRs in such a WR-rich draft was a little curious, but that's probably due to the whole "FA is a two-way street" thing.

j/c

This is silly imho. My grade would be an "incomplete".

You can't look at FA in a vacuum... not when you have 10 draft picks in a draft that most considers to be unusually deep with talent. FA/draft go hand in hand. So far I like the players we've brought in but we just don't know Farmer's plan for the draft. Draft is only weeks away so I'm going to grab my popcorn and see how the FA/draft process finishes out before grading it.

This G thing is getting to be a (beating dead horse) thing. Nobody knows who we tried to sign or contact. So Vers and all the others complaining about we did not sign a high level G really don't know if we tried or not. The FO might feel like they can get better value from the draft than sign a over-priced FA. Besides I think I already mentioned that we got Faulk and that former Bungle dude to compete for a spot. How many G's are we going to have going into camp?

I believe if you look at the G's he's been mentioning and their FA contracts, they weren't huge $$$ signings.

I'm not going to butcher this FO for not signing one, but just like with anything else, when you change schemes, you'll need some upgrade in personnel. We still have the draft, so I'm leaving my opinion open until after words.

I agree, my one critique, though is that they're going into the draft with so many needs (needs being defined as needing a starter). As far as I see it, we need an ILB, CB2, RG, and QB... and you could argue that we need another safety, WR2, QB2/3, and RT (I don't necessarily agree with the last one, but it only matters what the FO thinks about Schwartz).

That's quite a few big needs heading into the draft. I'd be more confident heading into the draft if we had a couple less needs.

Ya, I think I agree with that. I think our line isn't as bad as some peeps are saying. I keep hearing how the zone blocking scheme is harder to do implying that if our line was bad before it'll be worse in the more complex scheme. I think that is rubbish and agree Schwartz was much better in the zone. We may take a guard early but I also won't be surprised if we wait till the 4th round. I'm kind of expecting that actually.

Hey Ytown, Happy belated....anyway is Faulk considered a good fit for ZBS? Looks like their gonna have some good competition for G. Might need a better T prospect just in case.

Far, far, far too early to grade anything.

What they did elsewhere before here simply determined their paycheck. None of these guys has done anything here, yet.... and what they do HERE is what determines the grade.

I give them an A- for their cuts, especially Weeden.

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We didn't even talk to any of them.

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Just because we didn't sign them, or reports didn't come out saying we were talking to them... Doesn't mean we didn't.

I have a question. (or maybe a series of questions)

Jason Pinkston was supposed to havereasonably good feet for a tackle coming out of college. He was said to be able to get to the 2nd level effectively. He started in 2011, at LG, in the WCO under Shurmur. Why is it impossible that he could move to RG and be effective?

McQuistan has been a starting G and T for the Seahawks, who play a WCO offense. Why can he not be a fit at G for us?

Wallace is supposed to have decent feet. I know that he's a Tackle prospect from last year, but nothing says that a guy can't move inside. Wallace has had a year to work with the team, and now will learn the ZBS as part of a WCO team. Maybe he works as a G in this system. Stranger things have happened. Could he be a candidate?

It seems unlikely to me that Faulk will be a candidate, as I mentioned, he is far more lumbering and powerful than agile and nimble. He probably won't be a candidate, but could he get a look?

Gilkey is a question mark. He worked for a year last year in the Norv Turner offense, and came in fairly green. This year he has to learn a new offense. That will probably set him back some, but who knows? I think that he has to be, at least, a dark horse candidate. He probably fits a power blocking scheme better, but he could be a fit for a ZBS team as wel. He is supposed to be moderately agile, with fair feet ..... maybe not the ideal candidate, but couldn't he be a candidate?

Jeremiah Warren is a guy I know very little about, but he is another youngster on the roster. We really need to find a G who is either an inexpensive free agent, or a draft pick. (or already on the roster) Maybe he's a guy who surprises?

We can't just throw a big contract at a guy .... not after paying both Thomas and mack huge deals. There is a reason why teams have to let Guards go ...... they start getting too expensive relative to other positions. Heck, even Lauvao got a big deal for his services. I think that it's entirely possible that the Browns front office decided that they cannot just pay for every position. They have to pay Haden, Cameron, and Gordon in the next year or 2. Their young veterans are starting to come due for new deals. Not all will stay. I think that the team wants to keep as many good players as possible though, and a big free agent deal to a Guard could be problematic.

Also, how do you view our OL's play from last year? It seems to me that they were moderately competent with either Hoyer or Campbell in the game, and struggled with Weeden in the game. Would you agree with that? They struggled run blocking with McGahee and Whittaker, but could block well enough for Baker and Obi to run effectively. (at least as far as average goes) Could our OL be solid, with its only opening at one of the Guard positions? Could we have a candidate who can effectively fill this hole already on this roster?

I think that we both agree that one position that can be developed over time is OL. Not every OL candidate who makes a team is worthwhile immediately, but some can develop over time. We had a lot of candidates working on the roster last year. Could one of them be ready to take a step forward? We have a stop gap guy in McQuistan, and maybe 3 or 4 other guys who might be possibilities as well. If Farmer sees these guys every day, and maybe even scouted some of them, maybe he sees something that we haven't yet?

I'm not willing to panic over the G spot yet. I don't think that it is necessarily a spot to throw a bunch of money, especially with a top dollar LT and C. Concessions have to be made, and I think that this was one. Is that logical? Plus, maybe we draft a guy coming up. I doubt that we go high in the draft with an OL, because we need so much else, and there is big value in the top 3 rounds of this draft ..... but maybe we look at OL candidates in the 4th and beyond. Isn't that logical?

I know that you wanted a free agent Guard, but given the financial realities, the big contracts to 2 of our current OL players, (plus Schwartz coming up as well ... if he shows improvement this year) we could have a sizable investment and percentage of our cap in the OL. With a free agent deal for a high end G, that would add to that part of the balance sheet, maybe for another 3 years. Given the structure of NFL deals, it's not always easy to just cut a player to clear cap space. Could that be a consideration as well for Farmer and the front office?

Also, could Shanahan have said that maybe he likes one of more of the young players on the roster, and wants to work with them, but also wanted a security blanket? Maybe that's why we went with a guy who is somewhat competent, but not a top end guy.

I have been through a lot with this team, but I am not willing to freak out over not signing a free agent Guard ... not with the overall quality of the OL. Last year teams showed that backup guys can be effective when forced into action because of injury. Why not us this year? We probably have as many decent young candidates as any team.

The entire 2014 Season will grade Ray Farmer's offseason moves. I'm desperately hoping he will at least get us to the AFC Championship game.

Then again, I still see Ernest Byner's fumble, and Red Right 88, in my nightmares.

Damn thing is, I still love Byner (& glad he got his ring with Washington) and Sipe, 'cause I expected them to win games. <sigh>

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Vic Carucci: “I feel very confident about this offseason. This merits the A grade on multiple levels. First of all, the Browns went into the offseason with specific targets on what they wanted to address position-wise and where they needed to upgrade. More than that, they found ways to upgrade the overall talent level with a core group of players who are ready to contribute now. With Alex Mack, they made a resounding statement that good players don’t get away from the Browns. That gives you faith that when it comes to the (Joe) Haden’s, (Josh) Gordon’s, (Jordon) Cameron’s and the stars on this team whose contracts are going to come up, the Browns will keep them.

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Hey Vic, don't you mean good players don't get away from the Browns for two years, then they go buh bye? Because in two years time Alex Mack is gonzo. He will hit free agency and there's nothing we can do about it. In essence we are renting him for two seasons. And we better draft a center either this year or next to groom to take his place. I say take a versatile center that can play guard this year and in two years time when Mack leaves move him over. He'll have two seasons under his belt and know all the calls by then.

As for the Guard situation some seem up in arms about.... You do know we have 10 picks in the upcoming draft? If after the draft we haven't addressed the OG position I'll start to worry. With 10 picks I have to believe we will be drafting an offensive lineman or three. Maybe we'll go OT at #4 and move Schwartz inside.... Maybe we'll take two OG's in the 3rd and 4th and make everyone happy.... I'd much rather draft a Guard than pay way too much in FA. Besides, we have the greatest center to ever play the game(he better be as we are paying him like it), so Mack should make any Guard next to him look awesome, right? Peace

My roommate is a Broncos fan. I wait a few days after the Super Bowl, because he was utterly depressed about it, to ask what it's like to KNOW that you're going to win at least 10 games...

To go into a season and not worry about "Well we can win this game, maybe that one, and if we get on a roll here" but to just be able to enjoy the regular season KNOWING you have playoff games coming when it's not even week 4 yet...

I'm not even asking for that yet. I just want this team to look like all the other NFL teams..

It's weird. I'll watch a Browns game, and it almost feels like a different league, I'll watch the Patriots, Broncos, Packers... The field seems bigger, guys seem more open, the defenses seem faster...

I just want this team to go out and look like a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM. For four quarters, for 16 weeks.

Some day.

I agree its too early to "grade" anything.

But, if we had to, then give vers credit. There were three freakin good guards in free agency and one of them should have been our first priority. Its just my opinion, but this isn't rocket science. We needed at least one of those guys and should have paid them.

Doesn't make sense letting it slip. I appreciate the detailing of the guards we currently have, but it just makes me realize my position even more.

We all want the best "everything" for our team.

We want the best Tackles, the best Guards, the best Center, the best RBs, the best QB, the best TE, the best WRs, the best DL, the best LBs, the best CBs, the best S, the best K, the best P .......

We're fans. We want it all. However, the front office has to determine where our deepest needs are, and how to fill those ..... and what unit can be solid with a decent, rather than spectacular player at one of the positions.

Our OL was very good last year. We return 80% of that OL this year. We have tons (almost) of players to compete for the 1 open position.

No team can have great players at every position. It is not financially possible. That is why Guards tend to hit the market.

Asamoah was the 79th rated free agent according to CBS. He got a 5 year, $22.5 million deal from Atlanta. He started 9 games last year.

87th ranked Zane Beadles received a 5 year, $30 million deal from Jacksonville. (and it's hard to even tell how good he is when he blocked for Manning, who gets the ball out in fractions of a second) At least he has started every game for 4 years. I still wonder just how good he is, but at least he was solid even before Manning. That's a big deal he signed though.

114th rated Geoff Schwartz received a 4 year deal worth $16.8 million to play Tackle for the Giants. He started 7 games for the Chiefs last year. He started 16 games for the Panthers back in 2010. Since then he has started 7 games. Yes, 7 games started in the past 3 seasons. He has started 26 games in 6 seasons. Is he a huge upgrade? Is he worth over $4 million/year for us? Based on what?

I get that people see names and thing "Upgrade!", but that's not always the case. Further, sometimes upgrading one spot means that you cannot upgrade a different spot. Future guarantees may force a team to cut a different player for cap purposes. Man, we can't just sign everyone. I also remember some posters last year thinking that Geoff Schwartz wasn't all that good a player. Now people want him because ...... he's not on the team currently, I guess.

I am willing to let this play out a bit. I think that Our OL was pretty decent last year for 2/3 of our QBs.

If we need yet another veteran G, there are options available, and others who might become available after June 1 as well. I would look at a guy like Daryn Colledge if I felt that we needed a Guard. He is a long time starter for the Cards and Packers, and has played all but 4 games in the last 8 years, and hasn't missed a game in 6 years.

There are always options. .

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I have been through a lot with this team, but I am not willing to freak out over not signing a free agent Guard

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Who is "freaking" out?

Oh, I get it..................because I disagree w/the you guys, I am "freaking out." That's sound logic.

We'll see what you will be saying in October. And you will forget all of these conversations, just like you did when we had conversations about Weeden and TRich during the off-season last year.

Convenient.

Now, for anyone who wants to actually listen: I am not "freaking out." However, I am concerned that we have not yet addressed this area of our football team.

I do know we can draft players. Please don't act like I am stupid. I will tell you all that zone blocking is way, way more complicated than man/base blocking. Zone blocking is more effective, but it takes intelligent players who are agile and good technicians. It also demands that the OL work more cohesively than man blocking teams.

So, you all can pooh-pooh this. Again, we'll see what you say in October. Heck, I remember after game one last year..............the majority of posters were "freaking out" about how pathetic the OL was. Did y'all forget that?

Good lord Vers ..... re-read some of the stuff you have posted about the Guards. If that's not freaking out, it's a damn good impression. lol

As far as Weeden ... yeah, I was wrong. Big deal. I think that everyone's been wrong about a player here or there. Same with Trent. He regressed in year 2, really badly. I was happy we traded him when we did, if you recall, and gave Banner credit for pulling off such a wise trade.

You can go back and look, if it really matters.

As far as the OL, I posted my breakdown of the players we currently have, and why I am not freaking out. Someone pointed out that I named Faulk, even though I said that he probably does not fit, because he doesn't have the feet and agility. However, I do feel that we have other young guys who might fit, and I posted why. I don't see Guard as a dire need. Further, we cannot throw $30 million contracts into every position on the OL. It doesn't work. There is a reason why the Chiefs let guys go from their OL.

I also broke down how the Browns OL played with the different QBs in the game. Weeden worked his way into sacks. The OL protected Campbell and Hoyer fairly decently. (and Weeden as well, he just couldn't make it work) Also, the OL seemed to be OK blocking for guys like Obi and Baker, while other RBs (McGahee, Whittaker, and Trent) struggled.

Also ..... correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the guys you wanted the Browns to sign was Geoff Schwartz. The same Geoff Schwartz who has started something like 7 games in the past 3 seasons. What would be the sense of that? He got a deal from the Giants to play Tackle, and one with similar money as Lauvao received from the Skins.

Oh, once more, I was wrong about Weeden. I have never denied that. No big deal. I was wrong. Feel better now? I was wrong. *gasp* Oh goodness, I may not make it. I was wrong about a player. I'm fading fast now. I was wrong about Weeden. *gasp again* I hope you're happy now. I was wrong about Weeden. I don't think I'm gonna make it. "I'm coming Elizabeth!"

J/C
here is a move from January that I completely missed:

The Cleveland Browns signed Brandon Hughes to a reserve/futures contract on Jan. 2, 2014.

anybody know anything about this guy? I'm clueless.

Damanshot provides CPR.. Revives Ytown just long enough to hear one more time how he was wrong about Weeden

Yeah but dude.. You were totally wrong about Weeden..

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I don't buy the incomplete grade. You can grade things as they stand now. These aren't final grades.


As a student you get graded at points far before the final grade. This is simply grading Farmer and crew on what has happened to this point. Think of it as a pop quiz.

It isn't that hard to understand.


JMO.

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Yea, that always cracks me up... I can't grade this years draft until 2017 because by then we should know who is good and who isn't..

It's pretty simple, based on what we did, and what you THOUGHT we should do, to this point are you happy with the offseason or not? Ain't terribly difficult.

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We didn't sign a guard. We are switching to a zone blocking scheme and we are hurting at guard and probably at RT, as well.

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I want to take this opportunity to "correct" this perception some are trying to promote, that the Browns did not sign a free agent OG.

Paul McQuistan started 14 games for the Seahawks last season, playing at both LG and LT. He is experienced, starting 16 games in 2012 and 10 games in 2011 and has started at every position on the Oline except center, while playing for the Seahawks beginning with the 2011 season.

McQuistan was a 3rd round draft pick for the Raiders in 2006.

So those of you claiming that Farmer didn't address the Oline needs during free agency...just stop it...you know that is not the truth!

In all honestly, the Browns may picked up the best free agent OG of the entire bunch by signing Paul McQuistan, due to his versatility and the fact that he played in a zone blocking scheme while in Seattle.

That is enough of this BS, that the Browns didn't address the Oline during free agency...