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What I find funny about critics of Christianity is that they use the Spanish Inquisition as the measure for Christian cruelty
I don't think critics need to limit themselves so narrowly, no need to pretend it's the only bad part of Christianity. It's not like Christianity only persecuted people for that one specific time period. Religion must accept the good with the bad, to ignore history is to repeat it.
This is true, there were Christian heretics that were treated poorly by other 'Christians' but I'm only speaking of the one that is most notably used. I could have brought up the cases of the Huguenots and others.
The silly nutjobs at the Westboro Baptist Church deserve our derision and scorn, but nobody is calling for them to be slaughtered.
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You know, that as governor of Alaska, she had more experience dealing with foreign nationals than Barack Obama ever did as a senator from Illinois, right?
Sweet, I can play this game too. You know the Federal Government is responsible for the foreign policy of the government not Governors, right?
You know that governors, especially, those of border states and coastlines into international waters, are the first officials responsible for enacting those laws, right?
That is, California, Arizona, New Mexico & Texas are those that feel the effects of federal immigration laws with Mexico, right? It isn't some bureaucrat in DC.
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You know even though there is a close Maritime Border between Russia and Canada the Constitution grants sole jurisdiction to the Federal Government and not states, right?
Oh, I do know this. You're speaking from a 'legal' standpoint. I'm speaking from a 'real and effectual' standpoint.
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You've read the Constitution, right?
More than you have and I understand it better than you do. I also understand that federal laws don't mean jack to the states where a law would apply but the federal government doesn't enforce the laws they claim to have authority to enforce.
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Sarah Palin is a mouth piece (with lipstick) for the extreme right. She's not campaigning for herself, but she is for the cause.
Her words are free to interpret and cause controversy by doing so.
Non-conservatives will hold her to the words she says while others will have the opportunity to explain what she is "actually" saying.
This gives the conservative cause the ability repeat their beliefs and to argue their cause.
Is it any wonder she gets paid so well?
And yes, all political causes have similar mouth pieces.
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What I find funny about critics of Christianity is that they use the Spanish Inquisition as the measure for Christian cruelty
I don't think critics need to limit themselves so narrowly, no need to pretend it's the only bad part of Christianity. It's not like Christianity only persecuted people for that one specific time period. Religion must accept the good with the bad, to ignore history is to repeat it.
Christians by and large have evolved to the point of denouncing violence and intimidation to make their case. You don't have Christian heads of state or large Christian radical sects numbering in the millions preaching jihad and the annihilation of other religions and peoples. (Granted, you have whackos like those bombing abortion clinics and the Westboro Baptist church....but the vast majority of Christians openly denounce them.) Do you see Islam evolving to this point anytime soon?
sigh....
you're trying to compare two different religions, two different regions, and two different scenarios. it simply doesn't work that way.
of course christians can denounce violence with regards to the few radicals that cause some chaos. look what country we live in! you think their chances of being killed in america goes up? no, nor will it in any other free country like those in europe.
now try that crap in afghanistan. i'll give you 48 hours until you and your entire family is either dead, or you woke up from being knocked out with a bomb strapped to your chest, taliban telling you to run yourself into that US convoy or they are going to kill your family.
its easy to be the tough guy and be so righteous when you don't live in a state of fear. about the only bad thing going on with christians is them being told they can't put up crosses in public places. ooooooo, scary.
its completely different living in the middle east. you know why those people don't denounce violence? because they will be KILLED. when you live in a country thats ran by Al'Queada or the Taliban, you keep your mouth shut. especially when there are major wars going on.
and thats the biggest problem. we are at war, which makes for some great agenda coverages. what do you think is going to get more bites? a family denouncing violence? or the protest of some people burning the american flag? you already know the answer to that question.
and before you and any one else goes on a "holier than thou" statement, remember this: a lot of you guys will do a lot for your families. if you lived over there, with no weapons, no real power, what do you really think you are going to do? stand up for whats "right", and get everybody killed, or go with the flow and hope you can save enough money one day to send your kids out of the country.
let that sink in.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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She's just playing to the audience she's in front of..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I do believe it's telling though, that the countries that have a Judeo/Christian background are the US and European countries that are free. All of your Muslim based countries are in the middle-East and are violent and you must fear for your life for speaking out. Not trying to make a point, but just find it interesting that in an effort to point out that you are fine to make peaceful comments in countries that are/were Chrisitan(not officially, but the majority were Christian), but in the Muslim countries you are killed for it all while saying "Muslims can't preach peace, because they'll be killed by other Muslims."
I'm sorry, but if I have to live in fear of being killed by people of my religion, because I disagree with their tactics, then I wouldn't consider my religion peaceful.
I know that was a terrible rant and probably sounded more like a rambling, for that I appologize.
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You think that has anything to do to two unions of Christian nations who have been destabilizing the region every decade since they destroyed the Ottoman Empire?
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The ,real problem is that when the libs start treating ALL the racist, homophobes,sexist,faithphobes, politians that abuse their power,etc,there will never be harmony and a fair and honest debate in this country. 
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Oh yeah and lets not forget mainstream media that carries the lefts water also.
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You think that has anything to do to two unions of Christian nations who have been destabilizing the region every decade since they destroyed the Ottoman Empire?
No.
yebat' Putin
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I suggest you look into Middle East modern day history then.
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For a long time I considered myself a republican... then the republicans started acting in a way that I found myself disagreeing with.. I didn't disagree with what they said usually, more like how they said it and their tactics.. eventually it became hard to even want to consider myself a republican so I started calling myself a conservative.. now conservative causes, that I generally support, keep bringing out these kinds of folks to speak to them or speak on their behalf.. and it's getting harder and harder to even say I support them....
My views on most issues haven't changed much but it's getting harder and harder to feel like anybody on the national scene really represents me on that issue...
Republican and conservative causes need a serious infusion of grown ups....
And I believe this describes what is stunting the growth of their core values. When nothing but extremists get all of the publicity, it's very hard for someone to listen. That, IMO, is what has hurt the Libertarian Party. Some of the people that have seemed to garner the spotlight for them, are so far extreme in what they say, go off on tangents that are pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things, seem to be what the American people always here.
But I do feel the same could be said to the other extreme. The media is very slanted. From MSNBC to FOX News. Each portrays the other side as out of touch by showing the most extreme examples of the opposite viewpoint. What ever and whom ever they feel will provide the most shocking headlines to make the other side look bad, that's what you'll see.
I won't really address her quotes or what she said because I simply don't believe she is worthy of discussion. No more or less than Harry Reid. There are a lot of politicians on both sides of the aisle this applies to. And they usually the ones we hear about the most.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I won't really address her quotes or what she said because I simply don't believe she is worthy of discussion. No more or less than Harry Reid.
I agree with everything but I would add a caveat to this... Harry Reid is an elected official, he's a senior member of the Senate, he gets a vote and a lot of people follow his leadership.. Sarah Palin is a talking head who gets paid to do stupid speeches and rile up a particular segment of the masses... I think Reid should be far more scrutinized than is Palin..
yebat' Putin
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Point taken. I would say that when Palin ran on the GOP ticket as VP, the idea of that scared the hell out of me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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sigh....
you're trying to compare two different religions, two different regions, and two different scenarios. it simply doesn't work that way.
If comparing two different religions is enough to evoke a childish smartass sigh and "simply doesn't work that way", it sure is ironic that violence committed by Christians 500+ yrs. ago is the standard counter response when Muslim violence is mentioned. That's what my post addressed, and the question I asked recognized the differences.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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This is about terrorism, not some imaginary imposition of Christianity on people against their will.
This is about a woman who can only see the world through her own eyes and no one else's. She would not take the time nor have the inclination to look at her comments through the eyes of a Muslin, Buddhist...etc
She has no introspection, no empathy or at least non for people who lean further left than her, and is certainly o.k. with her unintelligent narrow minded viewpoint (Russia from my front porch). Worst of all she's a hypocrite (see her quitting her job and her handling of her child) She should be pointed to, laughed at, and serve as a warning. No one should ever quote Sarah Palin. There are far greater thinkers in the world both past and present.
Shoot maybe she can take over The Colbert Report. She wouldn't even have to make a character.
I'm not here to defend or criticize anyone, I am just saying that I think that you misinterpreted her quote. Secondly, she was talking about terrorists, not Moslems. Why is this important? Because you are confusing the issue and making this about all moslems, when it is rather about terrorism. Do you equate all Moslems with terrorism.
As an evangelical Christian, I strongly disagree with the religion of Islam, but I live peacefully with my Moslem neighbors. When someone starts blowing up women and children, that's where I think that it crosses the line from religion to crimes against humanity. Therefore, this has nothing to do with religious persecution. A law abiding Moslem is a law abiding citizen, and a murderer is a murderer, no matter if it is done in the name of religion or not.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 04/29/14 12:15 PM.
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If comparing two different religions is enough to evoke a childish smartass sigh and "simply doesn't work that way", it sure is ironic that violence committed by Christians 500+ yrs. ago is the standard counter response when Muslim violence is mentioned. That's what my post addressed, and the question I asked recognized the differences.
It's cause the people you are speaking with are normally lazy, no one needs to look back 500 years to find Christian violence in the world.
As for anarchy, I'm not ignoring you, but you cant use logic to argue with someone who is illogical.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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I hope you're not that gullible in real life.
It was quite clear that she was talking about Islam terrorists (You can't baptize Christian terrorists) and if you want to play the fool to defend her then so be it.
You also can't baptize a person against their will. You have to want to be baptized to be a proper converted Christian. She's saying she'd waterboard and interrogate the scumbags. I think this is a much better solution than giving them a new soccer field or sending them home. You shouldn't play the fool yourself. Name calling is very unbecoming.
I think the "baptism" thing was a play on words, not a literal baptism.
No one is trying to force Moslems to convert to Christianity. Jesus Himself would strongly condemn such a thing. You are trying to make her words mean something they do not mean. It was kind of like a punchline. Whether it is appropriate is a different matter, I am not defending it as an appropriate statement, I am just saying that I do not think that it did not mean what you think it meant.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 04/29/14 12:05 PM.
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If comparing two different religions is enough to evoke a childish smartass sigh and "simply doesn't work that way", it sure is ironic that violence committed by Christians 500+ yrs. ago is the standard counter response when Muslim violence is mentioned. That's what my post addressed, and the question I asked recognized the differences.
It's cause the people you are speaking with are normally lazy, no one needs to look back 500 years to find Christian violence in the world.
Are you saying it actually is appropriate to do an apples to apples comparison of Islam and Christianity? I'm not baiting here, I actually see some of Swish's points. I just think he wants it both ways.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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If comparing two different religions is enough to evoke a childish smartass sigh and "simply doesn't work that way", it sure is ironic that violence committed by Christians 500+ yrs. ago is the standard counter response when Muslim violence is mentioned. That's what my post addressed, and the question I asked recognized the differences.
It's cause the people you are speaking with are normally lazy, no one needs to look back 500 years to find Christian violence in the world.
As for anarchy, I'm not ignoring you, but you cant use logic to argue with someone who is illogical.
First you lump all Moslems together as terrorists, then you seem to equate all Christians as "inquisitors". You do realize that Evangelical Christians had nothing to do with the inquisition or the Crusades, right? In fact, Evangelical Christians are largely in the category of those who have been persecuted in the name of Christ, not in the category of those who persecute others in the name of Christ (see Jan Huss William Tyndale and others)
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This would be an ultimately amazing idea if the United States was a Christian nation that strictly forbade islam...However, since it is not this is a bad idea.
She said "....waterboarding is how we'd baptize terrorists". Notice she said "terrorists" not "Muslims", so unless you are implying that Islam=terrorism, your statement doesn't apply.
you do realize, when it comes to people who agree with palin, islam and terror is one in the same.
Not true.
As a conservative evangelical Christian, I view Islam as a religion, one that I view as a false religion, but I recognize their right to religious freedom (at least where religious freedom exists, it rarely or never exists in Moslem countries)
I view terrorists as criminals of the worst kind, crimes against humanity.
But, I will grant those that are criticizing Sarah Palin this much, as a general rule, most terrorists seen in the world today are of the Islamic variety. It's easy to make the jump. Does Islam, as a religion, get an undeserved bad reputation? I don't think so. It's very name means 'submission' and in the sense that it means it, it isn't a voluntary act.
What I find funny about critics of Christianity is that they use the Spanish Inquisition as the measure for Christian cruelty but never criticize Islam, which is inherently cruel, in any manner whatsoever. In fact, they criticize anyone that does criticize Islam.
I wouldn't have any problem sending any terrorist, of any religion or none, back to where they came and to add a crucifix tattoo to their bodies.
People who have professed to be Christians have historically done many things that both go against what Christianity stands for, and give a false impression to outsiders as to what Christianity is all about. Those who murdered innocents in the name of Jesus are suffering or will suffer grave consequences when they stand before God. The same is true of those who kill in the name of Islam. Those who murder innocent people in the name of Jesus and those who murder innocent people in the name of Islam will go to the same place.
As far as what to do with terrorists...they are not innocent, they are guilty of bloodshed, so when they are caught they need to be interrogated (to try to save innocent lives) and they need to be held accountable for what they have done to the fullest extent. Now they think that if they die in the name of Allah, they will go to paradise and get rewards. They're in for a rude awakening. Yet how can we deter terrorism if we sit around and try to empathize with them instead of dealing with them as their actions warrant.
Many terrorists would not stop killing no matter what concessions you make. This is evident by the fact that Israel tried to make huge concessions to the PLO and others on several occassions, yet it never stopped the terrorists blood thirst to anhilate Israel. They would like to anhilate Israel and they would like to anhilate us. That is the mindset of many terrorists.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 04/29/14 12:42 PM.
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So when did FOX make jokes about the dems mentally challenged children or otherwise,or wish the opposition death and disease? Im talking about an actual host like the MSNBC host that so gleefully do it. I may have missed it so please correct me if i am wrong .
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I hope you're not that gullible in real life.
It was quite clear that she was talking about Islam terrorists (You can't baptize Christian terrorists) and if you want to play the fool to defend her then so be it.
You also can't baptize a person against their will. You have to want to be baptized to be a proper converted Christian. She's saying she'd waterboard and interrogate the scumbags. I think this is a much better solution than giving them a new soccer field or sending them home. You shouldn't play the fool yourself. Name calling is very unbecoming.
I think the "baptism" thing was a play on words, not a literal baptism.
No one is trying to force Moslems to convert to Christianity. Jesus Himself would strongly condemn such a thing. You are trying to make her words mean something they do not mean. It was kind of like a punchline. Whether it is appropriate is a different matter, I am not defending it as an appropriate statement, I am just saying that I do not think that it did not mean what you think it meant.
You should read more of what I wrote. I know what she said was tongue in cheek, as she was referring to waterboarding. Others were accusing her of forcibly baptizing terrorists.
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So when did FOX make jokes about the dems mentally challenged children or otherwise,or wish the opposition death and disease? Im talking about an actual host like the MSNBC host that so gleefully do it. I may have missed it so please correct me if i am wrong .
What does that have to do with what I said?
Both sides point to the extremists on the other side of their political viewpoint. I didn't uphold one as being better or worse than the other. Just the fact that they use the most outlandish politicians and statements from the opposing side in order to discredit them or make them seem out of touch.
I stand by that and won't debate who is "the worst of the worst".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Point taken. I would say that when Palin ran on the GOP ticket as VP, the idea of that scared the hell out of me.
I was pretty excited about it at first then something strange happened... she opened her mouth.
yebat' Putin
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Point taken. I would say that when Palin ran on the GOP ticket as VP, the idea of that scared the hell out of me.
I was pretty excited about it at first then something strange happened... she opened her mouth.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I hope you're not that gullible in real life.
It was quite clear that she was talking about Islam terrorists (You can't baptize Christian terrorists) and if you want to play the fool to defend her then so be it.
You also can't baptize a person against their will. You have to want to be baptized to be a proper converted Christian. She's saying she'd waterboard and interrogate the scumbags. I think this is a much better solution than giving them a new soccer field or sending them home. You shouldn't play the fool yourself. Name calling is very unbecoming.
I think the "baptism" thing was a play on words, not a literal baptism.
No one is trying to force Moslems to convert to Christianity. Jesus Himself would strongly condemn such a thing. You are trying to make her words mean something they do not mean. It was kind of like a punchline. Whether it is appropriate is a different matter, I am not defending it as an appropriate statement, I am just saying that I do not think that it did not mean what you think it meant.
You should read more of what I wrote. I know what she said was tongue in cheek, as she was referring to waterboarding. Others were accusing her of forcibly baptizing terrorists.
I apologize. I must have fixated on the first couple lines and missed the rest.
Re reading it, I basically agree with what you are saying.
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I know you wont debate it and that was not my intention, but you had to bring up that same old analogy between the two and i just called you on it . It may serve you better to learn the truth not slanted speculation.
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I know you wont debate it and that was not my intention, but you had to bring up that same old analogy between the two and i just called you on it . It may serve you better to learn the truth not slanted speculation.
What exactly is your point here?
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And I believe this describes what is stunting the growth of their core values. When nothing but extremists get all of the publicity, it's very hard for someone to listen.
There is is people, I've been saying that and things like that for a long time.
We do not have representation in DC.. Fact is, I question if we really have it at the state level either.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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There is is people, I've been saying that and things like that for a long time.
We do not have representation in DC.. Fact is, I question if we really have it at the state level either.
We don't. People don't have enough interest as the state level. We lost that with the 17th Amendment calling for direct election of the Senate. The House was meant to represent the populace, the Senate was meant to represent the states.
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We also lost it over the years as the federal government slowly took over the highway system, education standards, environmental regulations, healthcare, drinking age, speed limits, and anything else they could get their hands on.
yebat' Putin
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Just informing thats all,anyway it was directed to Pits analogy ,not a personel attack to him ,cause i agree with his points more than not actually,so why are you weighing in .....whats your point...? 
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I was just curious as to what your point was
You came across like you were pointing out some truth or point of fact, and I didn't really see one made.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
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We also lost it over the years as the federal government slowly took over the highway system, education standards, environmental regulations, healthcare, drinking age, speed limits, and anything else they could get their hands on.
Exactly. There is far too much federal control. Our country would be a lot better off if administration was more local.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,759 Likes: 1340
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,759 Likes: 1340 |
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I know you wont debate it and that was not my intention, but you had to bring up that same old analogy between the two and i just called you on it . It may serve you better to learn the truth not slanted speculation.
My statements were not slanted. They are very accurate. You wished to take another turn in the subject that had nothing at all to do with my comments.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,736 Likes: 927
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,736 Likes: 927 |
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I think the "baptism" thing was a play on words, not a literal baptism.
...and it surprises me that there isn't more backlash from devout people about her 'playful' use of the word "baptism."
To pervert the original meaning, and use it as a euphemism for torture is in pretty poor taste, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even that devout, and the word caught my attention. Can't be totally honest without adding that it left me feeling a bit like I needed to wash my hands, or something.
It may be catchy.
It may be "cute."
It may even be considered "clever" by some.
I didn't like it.
It just seemed somewhat 'low-class' to me.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think the "baptism" thing was a play on words, not a literal baptism.
...and it surprises me that there isn't more backlash from devout people about her 'playful' use of the word "baptism."
To pervert the original meaning, and use it as a euphemism for torture is in pretty poor taste, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even that devout, and the word caught my attention. Can't be totally honest without adding that it left me feeling a bit like I needed to wash my hands, or something.
It may be catchy.
It may be "cute."
It may even be considered "clever" by some.
I didn't like it.
It just seemed somewhat 'low-class' to me.
.02
Yes, I didnt care for the choice of words either. That's why I said I'm not here to defend her, just saying that people shouldnt attach meaning to a quote that isnt there.
I dislike the words because baptism represents a believers union with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. You are right to take issue with the words she used. You make an excellent point here.
I just thought that accusing her of advocating forced conversions to Christianity is more than a stretch.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 04/29/14 05:31 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
To pervert the original meaning, and use it as a euphemism for torture is in pretty poor taste, as far as I'm concerned.
I picked up on it but so much of what she says is in poor taste, things like that don't even bother me any more.
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Sarah Palin: 'Waterboarding Is How
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